Author Topic: Gyalwa Rinpoche: INVESTIGATE (Dorje Shugden)!  (Read 635 times)

Ringo Starr

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Gyalwa Rinpoche: INVESTIGATE (Dorje Shugden)!
« on: September 09, 2019, 07:08:54 PM »
His Holiness the Dalai Lama recently chose to teach (give commentary) on none-other than Lama Tsongkhapa’s great works as a way into the vast array of teachings by Arya Nagarjuna.

On the last day of teachings, Gyalwa Rinpoche stated that Lama Tsongkhapa, in the “Great Treatise”, recommends scrutinizing the teacher by examining his teaching. “Having faith is one thing, but it’s necessary to be more astute, because sometimes teachers make mistakes.”

Gyalwa Rinpoche then launched into making this statement:

“For example, Kyabjé Phabongka Rinpoché had great disciples like Kyabjé Trijang Rinpoché, but, to be frank, he was mistaken in his propitiation of Gyalpo Shukden. You need to have pure vision with regard to the teacher as a person, but should critically examine what he teaches. I raised objections to the practice of Shukden and later discovered that the Great Fifth Dalai Lama had been very critical of it in his writings. He wrote that Shukden arose as a result of wrong prayers and was born as a negative being that harms beings and the teachings. This is how the Great Fifth, who was himself an accomplished master, who experienced pure visions and so forth, described Shukden.

“I propitiated Shukden too to begin with, but once I’d examined him and his origins I found that it was not appropriate to do such practice. Now, it’s my responsibility to tell people that there is harm, and no benefit, in this practice. By propitiating Shukden people have damaged Tsongkhapa’s tradition.”

Then Gyalwa Rinpoche closed his 3 days of teachings by once again reminding that “We need to think over this idea of viewing everything a teacher does with pure vision. The Buddha didn’t advise us to do that, he encouraged us to examine and investigate even our teachers.”

Those who (really) understood Gyalwa Rinpoche’s teachings would investigate his teachings as he has unmistakenly advised and this website is such a counterpoint to Gyalwa Rinpoche’s statement regarding Dorje Shugden.

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“Neither from itself, nor from another, nor from both, nor without a cause, does anything, anywhere, ever, arise.” – Lord N?g?rjuna, in M?lamadhyamakak?rika.


Drolma

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Re: Gyalwa Rinpoche: INVESTIGATE (Dorje Shugden)!
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 08:18:26 AM »
The Dalai Lama said we should observe and investigate our teacher but he never tells us how. According to the 50 Stanzas of Guru Devotion, we should observe a teacher before we decide to take refuge in him. Once he becomes our teacher, we should view him one as the Buddha.

I don't really like the statement the Dalai Lama has made. It sounds schimastic, it creates doubt and confuses the student's mind. Instead of encouraging the student to be loyal to the teacher, the Dalai Lama implies that a student can always doubt a teacher.

However, it also means that we can doubt what the Dalai Lama has said.  If any teacher can make a mistake, he as a teacher can also make a mistake. There are many evidences showing that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit. He is an emanation of Buddha Manjushri.

Ringo Starr

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Re: Gyalwa Rinpoche: INVESTIGATE (Dorje Shugden)!
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2019, 03:26:11 PM »
Exactly.

If you have already done your investigation and have taken tantric vows with your tantric master, then the (tantric) practice requires you to view the whole universe as a perfect Buddhaland including yourself.

But in this case, the Dalai Lama is addressing lay people mostly and as Buddha Shakyamuni and all the teachers teach - investigate. By investigating (vs. having blind faith), you will find the truth and be a real practitioner.

Ringo Starr

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Re: Gyalwa Rinpoche: INVESTIGATE (Dorje Shugden)!
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2019, 03:37:11 PM »
My point is that Gyalwa Rinpoche is asking the world to investigate Dorje Shugden (by visiting this website for example), thereby, coming to conclusions themselves about Dorje Shugden.

Gyalwa Rinpoche is making a very strong point to (even) investigate what he himself says, and not just taking it in hook, line and sinker. This is the true essence of the Dharma. Investigate and find out Truth.

Unfortunately for many, this point may have been totally missed. Sad.


Ringo Starr

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Re: Gyalwa Rinpoche: INVESTIGATE (Dorje Shugden)!
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 03:14:11 AM »
For example, the 5th Dalai Lama constructed a dedicated chapel in Lhasa called Trode Khangsar specifically for the enthronement and propitiation of Dorje Shugden in addition to the prayers he composed praising Dorje Shugden's enlightened qualities.

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/places/dorje-shugden-chapel-lhasa-tibet-built-by-the-dalai-lama/

https://youtu.be/Ehr8ePFyWoY

Ringo Starr

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Re: Gyalwa Rinpoche: INVESTIGATE (Dorje Shugden)!
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2019, 03:21:45 AM »
Prayer to Gyalchen Dorje Shugden by the 5th Dalai Lama

HUM
Though unmoving from the sphere of primordial spontaneity,
With wrathful turbulent power, swifter than lightning,
Endowed with heroic courage to judge good and bad,
I invite you with faith, please come to this place!

Robes of a monk, crown adorned with rhinocerous leather hat,
Right hand holds ornate club, left holds a human heart,
Riding various mounts such as nagas and garudas,
Who subdues the mamo’s of the charnal grounds, praise to you!

Samaya substances, offerings and torma, outer, inner and secret,
Favorite visual offerings and various objects are arranged.
Although, previously, my wishes were a bit dense,
Do not stop your powerful apparitions, I reveal and confess!

Now respectfully praising with body, speech, and mind,
For us, the masters, disciples, benefactors and entourages,
Provide the good and avert the bad!
Bring increase like the waxing moon in spiritual and temporal realms!

Moreover, swiftly accomplishing all wishes,
According to our prayers, bestow the supreme effortlessly!
And like the jewel that bestows all wishes,
Always protect us with the Three Jewels!


https://www.dorjeshugden.com/prayers/dorje-shugden-prayers/prayer-by-the-fifth-dalai-lama-to-gyelchen-dorje-shugden/


Tenzin K

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Re: Gyalwa Rinpoche: INVESTIGATE (Dorje Shugden)!
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2019, 05:47:36 AM »
If we take refuge in our Guru and still have doubt then how can we excel in our spiritual practice? Whatever doubt we have should be cleared before we firm with our decision to submit ourselves to learn under one Guru. We can examine what our Guru teaches in the contect of how we improve from the practice given by the Guru but not to doubt if the Guru teaches us has this or that flaws. If we have so much of doubt to one Guru then why are we taking refuge in him? If one is so good that he or she can determine that the Guru is wrong then better stop following the Guru. This is because one has never believed the Guru and always just find fault on the Guru. One would rather spend so much time to focus the wrong perception instead of going all the way with the Guru's advice and instruction where it helps many people recently.

If Shugden is harmful and not advice to be practiced then why not subdue him and this will help many people from being harm (if Shugden is really harmful). Why so many people say Shugden is bad and harmful but no one able to just subdue him just like any highly attaint lamas that subdued spirit from harming people. Why keep saying Shugden is bad and not doing anything with Shugden but imposed a ban on so many people? Why not get rid of one instead of creating so much suffering for many people? This doesn't make sense at all. Don't tell me that there is no one able to subdue Shugden unless Shugden is not a spirit but an enlightened being that's why no one can do anything.

Ringo Starr

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Re: Gyalwa Rinpoche: INVESTIGATE (Dorje Shugden)!
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2019, 07:09:12 AM »
You mean your Guru (if you have one that is) has been telling you to just believe in what he/she says and not investigate? This would be completely against what Buddha Shakyamuni taught which is to investigate the teachings like a goldsmith tests gold.

Taking refuge and investigating are two different things altogether. Perhaps a review of what taking refuge means should be in your next investigation.

Drolma

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Re: Gyalwa Rinpoche: INVESTIGATE (Dorje Shugden)!
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2019, 07:52:44 AM »
My point is that Gyalwa Rinpoche is asking the world to investigate Dorje Shugden (by visiting this website for example), thereby, coming to conclusions themselves about Dorje Shugden.

Gyalwa Rinpoche is making a very strong point to (even) investigate what he himself says, and not just taking it in hook, line and sinker. This is the true essence of the Dharma. Investigate and find out Truth.

Unfortunately for many, this point may have been totally missed. Sad.

If this is what the Dalai Lama wants people to do, then it is a fair advice. It is true that Buddha Shakyamuni taught us to observe and investigate before we make any conclusion. I must say dorjeshugden.com is a very good site to learn all about Dorje Shugden. The Dorje Shugden controversy is explained very well here with examples given as supporting points.

The ban is imposed using so many illogical reasons. These reasons make it really hard to believe Dorje Shugden is a evil spirit. Unfortunately, there are still many people who don't investigate and just take words from the Dalai Lama literately.

Dorje Shugden ban has caused many unnecessary sufferings to people. It has split the Tibetan and Buddhist community apart. The ban does not bring benefit to anyone. In fact, it creates damages to the Tibetan community. If the CTA really wants the Tibetan to move on, the ban should lifted asap.

Tracy

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Re: Gyalwa Rinpoche: INVESTIGATE (Dorje Shugden)!
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2019, 09:15:18 AM »
My point is that Gyalwa Rinpoche is asking the world to investigate Dorje Shugden (by visiting this website for example), thereby, coming to conclusions themselves about Dorje Shugden.

Gyalwa Rinpoche is making a very strong point to (even) investigate what he himself says, and not just taking it in hook, line and sinker. This is the true essence of the Dharma. Investigate and find out Truth.

Unfortunately for many, this point may have been totally missed. Sad.
Buddha Shakyamuni did not want any of the followers to follow what he said blindly, he wanted the followers to examine, analyse, to experience before agreeing with what he said. It seems like the Dalai Lama is also asking people to do the same, to examine first before coming to a conclusion. But many people who claim to be Buddhists are not the type who study and analyse, they just follow blindly. Even though evidences have been given to prove that Dorje Shugden is an emanation of Buddha Manjushri but most people refuse to accept that. It is indeed a denegerated time.