Author Topic: On Reverse Labeling, and the subsequent moral confusion  (Read 8778 times)

Zhalmed Pawo

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On Reverse Labeling, and the subsequent moral confusion
« on: February 28, 2010, 08:10:12 PM »
There is this interesting philosophical stance that could be called as the "God works in mysterious ways" -argument, which is also known in the Buddhist circles as the "Crazy Wisdom argument". In short, this view says that "since the Person X is a holy one, full of goodness, it follows that all his actions, even those that observably are bad and unethical, are holy and good".

This view takes as it's starting point the status - dogmatically inherent, or socially agreed one - of the actor, and views the actions done by the actor from that initial premise. Hence, if it is agreed upon that God is good, then it follows that when God kills the family of Job, these murderous acts are good. As a justification, or a getaway-clause, to this evident clash of the inherent status of the actor and the unethical status of his acts, the adherent of this philosophical stance typically posits the further view of the "lowliness of the human observer". As the human observer is ignorant, he cannot possibly understand the Great Plan of the God, or the Mysterious Workings of the God. Or in other words, he has no ethical sense, no moral eye. He is blind.

As God is seen inherently good, all his acts are good, and if you do not recognize them as such, you are an ignoramus, little in faith, a non-believer. As some 'Guru' is seen through an empowerment to be good, all his acts are good, and if you do not recognize them as such, you are an ignoramus, little in faith, a non-believer.

To hold this view therefore means, that one also maintains that one is not capable of making moral judgements oneself. This view therefore makes one into an animal, in the sense that one knowingly refuses to use one's reason, but in full cognizance shuns away one's conscience. One ignores the evident. One shuts one's eyes. One bathes in ignorance. One loses one's humanity, and drifts towards the animal realm.

But happily, the Buddha never taught us to practice anything like that. He did not say, that we should have that kind of view, that kind of philosophical stance. On the contrary.

According to the Buddha, one's purity comes through one's actions, and ultimately through one's mind. Time and again, he has taught things like that "no one is pure (brahmin) through birth or status, but through one's deeds, karma, one is pure (brahmin)." In other words, we cannot as Buddhists, start to make ethical judgements from any preconceived view of the status of the actor, but must only look to the acts themselves. If the acts are pure and good, the actor is pure to that extent. Not the other way round. Killing is not deemed bad because evil people do that, but people are deemed evil if they kill. The ethical status of the actor ia a result from the status of the acts done, but not that the status of the acts follows the supposed status of the actor. This difference-in-view is one of the great differences between Buddhism and the Theistic Religions.

In Buddhism, the moral logic, or the proper application of moral labeling, goes like this: Shakyamuni's actions are not pure and good because they are made by a Buddha, but Shakyamuni is a pure being, a Buddha, because all he does is pure and good. It is his pure actions that make him a Buddha. To merely dogmatically proclaim, that as he is labeled as a Buddha all his actions must be pure, is in fact a non-buddhist view, a theistic view.

This is an important point. If one uses "reverse labeling", labeling the acts based on the supposed status of the actor, one remains in confusion, since one cannot possibly check the actual purity of the actor. But using the "upright labeling", that is, labeling the actor based on his evident actions, since one can use the Dharma to reflect the status of the acts, one can have clear indications of the status of the actor, and thereby clear away all confusion.

Using the upright labeling, one uses the Dharma. One bases one's moral judgements solely on the Dharma, instead on some supposed and unproveable status-claims made by third parties. In this way, the upright labeling allows one to grow in view and vision as one grows familiar with the Dharma, and therefore one is prevented from falling into the lower realms, and enabled ultimately to attain freedom from all rebirths. Using the reverse labeling one eventually loses all track of what is Dharma and non-dharma, and one drifts away even further from the shores of the Island of Refuge, into the vast ocean of Samsara. Now that we see the land, the solid ground of Goodness, let us not drift away into the fog!


blessings,
Zhalmed Pawo

Geronimo

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Re: On Reverse Labeling, and the subsequent moral confusion
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2010, 08:37:04 PM »
Very Beautiful and concisely stated with words that entreat me to stay here and enjoy the view from this lovely Island.

Big Uncle

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Re: On Reverse Labeling, and the subsequent moral confusion
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2010, 09:58:36 PM »
I am one of those whom you called those who hold the philosophical "Crazy Wisdom argument". I hear what you have to say regarding what I hold dear but I do not think that it synonymous with the "God works in mysterious ways." philosophy. For one thing, I won't use my philosophical view to shut people up or even to avoid what the Dalai Lama has said or done. I just believe that he has a higher purpose towards making a line of ridiculous statements and edicts...and like some of the others here, we have expressed them in hopes that people will stop attacking the Dalai Lama and shift this energy towards the lifting the ban or even the spreading of Dorje Shugden's practice instead.

I know. The next line of argument would be that all those wouldn't be possible without denouncing the Dalai Lama. Well yes, in a way you are right but I am thinking what if the Dalai Lama really has an elaborate plan to push the Dharma into the world and insight that this will be the most effective -long term. Well, if that is true, all our angry statements would bring about a rude awakening and negative repercussions in the future. If we are truly practitioners of Dorje Shugden, we must realise that there are beings who are higher and spiritually more evolved than us. Too many great masters and monks have expressed that of the Dalai Lama and his own actions have spoke for him. I know his ban has brought catastrophic lost of faith in many but we really can't say what the real result will be in the future because the Dalai Lama's plans is huge and span lifetimes or he wouldn't be able to accomplish so much. No other Buddhist leader comes close to how much he had accomplish for Buddhism. His name is almost a household name and I don't think any other Buddhist leader has that ability right now and certainly not you or me can do that in our whole lifetime. Now, is he really out to destroy his hard work with this ban? Or is he the bad actor as is so ardently portrayed here?

I end with a question and not an answer because I don't have the wisdom to see beyond the Dalai Lama's actions right now but I do take refuge in my Lama and especially OUR lineage Lama, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche who had already given explicit advice on this matter.




Lineageholder

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Re: On Reverse Labeling, and the subsequent moral confusion
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2010, 10:23:20 PM »
So let's deal with conventional truths.

The Dalai Lama has lied (provable).  The Dalai Lama has said one thing and done the opposite (hypocrisy, once again provable).

Therefore, as the WSS has said, the Dalai Lama is a liar and a hypocrite - these are not the actions of a Buddha.

Geronimo

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Re: On Reverse Labeling, and the subsequent moral confusion
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2010, 10:28:52 PM »
That's The Way, I like it! Sound and Simple!
Hear ! hear!
 

Geronimo

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Re: On Reverse Labeling, and the subsequent moral confusion
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2010, 10:55:46 PM »
Buddha and Buddhism
The founder of Buddhism in this world was Buddha Shakyamuni who lived and taught in India some two and a half thousand years ago. Since then millions of people around the world have followed the pure spiritual path he revealed.

Buddha explained that all our problems and suffering arise from confused and negative states of mind, and all our happiness and good fortune arise from peaceful and positive states of mind.

Lasting peace and happiness
He taught methods for gradually overcoming minds such as anger, jealousy and ignorance, and developing positive minds such as love, compassion and wisdom, and in this way. Through this we will come to experience lasting peace and happiness.

These methods work for anyone, in any country, in any age. Once we have gained experience of them for ourselves we can pass them on to others so they, too, can enjoy the same benefits.

The Buddhist way of life - peace, loving kindness and wisdom - is just as relevant today as it was when Buddha appeared in ancient India.

Zhalmed Pawo

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Re: On Reverse Labeling, and the subsequent moral confusion
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2010, 10:58:55 PM »
Dear Big Uncle,

This is very interesting: what you just wrote there fits my original description totally. Thank you for providing this "live specimen".

While seeing the "statements and edicts" as problematic, you nevertheless claim that there indeed might be a "great purpose in all of it", although of course you think that you are incapable of understanding the Mysteries. And the basis of all this is, namely, that DL is just simply so Great, whereas you are not.

So, by accepting the third-party-given status of the actor, while admitting that you do not understand how on earth the acts could be good, there still is a great pure good purpose in all of that, even when the evident reality of those acts is seen by you to be problematic.

Just so, just so. That is how it works. The non-reliance on the Dharma and valid perception, that is.

At no point did you stop to reflect the evident acts on the mirror of Dharma. You totally forgot that. You merely looked at the Big Status of the actor. The acts in themselves were never reflected in the Light of Dharma, but the whole view was based on the Status of the Actor. The refuge seems to be in the person of status, or in the status of the person, but not in the mind of understaning (Dharma-Jewel) that reflects through the Teaching (Dharma) the immediate reality (dharma). But sadly, oh so sadly, to practice Dharma means, that one does, by oneself, those reflections. If one maintains that one cannot possibly understand, then one simply cannot understand. No prajna, no jnana, no wisdom. Mere confusion and unknowing.

Thank you for this opportunity of explaining.

Very interesting.

emptymountains

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Re: On Reverse Labeling, and the subsequent moral confusion
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 11:02:42 PM »
Quote
As we cannot perceive the mindstream of others, we should strive to appreciate the teachings of all; but I cannot accept those who spread wrong views and through these wrong views lead many astray. (The First Panchen Lama, quoted in Clear Light of Bliss, p. 153)

Quote
Nagarjuna has said: "Dharmas revealed by the Buddhas are always fully in accordance with the Dual Truths, both Absolute and Relative Truth." (The Dalai Lama, My Land and My People, p. 246)

Quote
The moon and the stars may fall to the earth, the earth with all its mountains and dwelling places may disappear, and space itself may disappear, but it is impossible for Buddha to tell a lie. (King of Concentration Sutra, quoted in Joyful Path of Good Fortune, pp. 262-263)