Author Topic: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?  (Read 3768 times)

Tracy

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Yes it is true that the Dalai Lama's status is different from that of his people. He is safeguarded in his palace and has limited restrictions in his travel (that is until recently where many countries disallow his visa to prevent irking China). He receives tons of donations from his followers and this is not counting the sponsorships from countries for his people, the "refugees". On the other hand, what money siphons down to them after CTA takes the cut, is hardly ever for them to progress. In fact, often times they dwell in deep poverty and depend on selling sweaters which hardly cover their basic living expenses. It is a requirement for them to be in poverty. Otherwise, how would Lobsang Sangay & CTA beg for money? Why change now? Well, their faith may not be with them much longer. The Dalai Lama is 83 years old and rumoured to have cancer. With his retirement, people are saying his condition has worsen and they are scared of what will happen if he leaves them. What will become of them? Will India still allow them stay the remaining of 99 years as promised? Will CTA hold them together or will they return to their respective countries since they are holders of the passports of these countries. In other words, there are citizens of those countries which means they are not Tibetan.  >:(

Remain refugee like the Dalai Lama? Well, if they have the same status and wealth, then maybe why not?

In old Tibet, the Tibetans were segregated into different classes, the majority of them were slaves and were exploited by their landlords or their own government. The rich always became richer and the poor always became poorer. After they escaped from Tibet, even though they are ruled by a democratic government, they are still being exploited by their own government.

The culture of exploiting their own people and taking care only about themselves is still deep-rooted in the Tibetan leadership. Even though the Tibetans in India are ruled by a democratic government now, they are still being suppressed. They have the right to vote for their government but they don't have the right to voice out their dissatisfaction. Whoever voices out, the Tibetan leadership will find ways to get them or encourage the Tibetans to outcast the person who voices out. One very good example is Lukar Jam Atsok whose life was in danger after he exposed the evil side of the Tibetan leadership.

With so much unfairness and promises that are not fulfilled in the past 60 years, the Tibetans know the Dalai Lama will not be able to make any differences in the situation they are in. Life as a refugee is full of uncertainty and the Tibetans, especially the younger generation does not wish to live like that anymore. They may not follow the Dalai Lama but it does not mean they don't respect the Dalai Lama anymore. What they don't appreciate is the selfishness of the Tibetan leadership.

Alex

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Yes it is true that the Dalai Lama's status is different from that of his people. He is safeguarded in his palace and has limited restrictions in his travel (that is until recently where many countries disallow his visa to prevent irking China). He receives tons of donations from his followers and this is not counting the sponsorships from countries for his people, the "refugees". On the other hand, what money siphons down to them after CTA takes the cut, is hardly ever for them to progress. In fact, often times they dwell in deep poverty and depend on selling sweaters which hardly cover their basic living expenses. It is a requirement for them to be in poverty. Otherwise, how would Lobsang Sangay & CTA beg for money? Why change now? Well, their faith may not be with them much longer. The Dalai Lama is 83 years old and rumoured to have cancer. With his retirement, people are saying his condition has worsen and they are scared of what will happen if he leaves them. What will become of them? Will India still allow them stay the remaining of 99 years as promised? Will CTA hold them together or will they return to their respective countries since they are holders of the passports of these countries. In other words, there are citizens of those countries which means they are not Tibetan.  >:(

Remain refugee like the Dalai Lama? Well, if they have the same status and wealth, then maybe why not?

In old Tibet, the Tibetans were segregated into different classes, the majority of them were slaves and were exploited by their landlords or their own government. The rich always became richer and the poor always became poorer. After they escaped from Tibet, even though they are ruled by a democratic government, they are still being exploited by their own government.

The culture of exploiting their own people and taking care only about themselves is still deep-rooted in the Tibetan leadership. Even though the Tibetans in India are ruled by a democratic government now, they are still being suppressed. They have the right to vote for their government but they don't have the right to voice out their dissatisfaction. Whoever voices out, the Tibetan leadership will find ways to get them or encourage the Tibetans to outcast the person who voices out. One very good example is Lukar Jam Atsok whose life was in danger after he exposed the evil side of the Tibetan leadership.

With so much unfairness and promises that are not fulfilled in the past 60 years, the Tibetans know the Dalai Lama will not be able to make any differences in the situation they are in. Life as a refugee is full of uncertainty and the Tibetans, especially the younger generation does not wish to live like that anymore. They may not follow the Dalai Lama but it does not mean they don't respect the Dalai Lama anymore. What they don't appreciate is the selfishness of the Tibetan leadership.

The old Tibet is not a happy country at all. 95% of the Tibetans are slaves that are doomed from the day they are born. Those who are slaves will remain as slaves and they will not escape the fate of being a slave just like their parents. The rich will remain as rich while the poor remain as poor. It has been the way of life in Tibet until the invasion of the Chinese.

The Chinese went in and abolished the feudal system while giving aids and benefits to those serfs. Many serfs can create a new life for themselves by using the aids provided by the Chinese government. If the Chinese never went to Tibet, many Tibetans will remain as slaves and be exploited by the rich people in the country.

The Chinese really transformed Tibet into a better place with freedom for the people to do what they want. No religion is banned in Tibet which contributed a lot to the peace that they have now in Tibet. The Dorje Shugden ban is creating an unnecessary issue and created a lot of tension and distress in the community. Let's hope that the Chinese will become more lenient with Tibetans in Exile and allow them to go back to their home in Tibet.

Tenzin K

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The Tibetan is in desperate already. After 60 years as refugees in India, CTA has not improve any of their welfare and looking at CTA which has no strategy at all to bring the Tibetan back to their homeland, the Tibetans may have to act on their own to work out for their future. After 60 years, Tibetans didn’t see anything beneficial to the them and in fact Tibetans are willing to take chances to explore outside India now.

Alex

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Nechung protector’s command and promise to the Dalai Lama unfulfilled. Nechung promised Dalai Lama if Dorje Shugden's practice was banned, then the he can get Tibet back and Tibetans can return to Tibet.



It’s strange as Nechung also said to the Dalai Lama to ban Dorje Shugden back in 1996. If this is done, then Nechung will be pleased and trust will be repaired between him and the Tibetan people and Tibetans can get Tibet back. This has not happened still. Nechung on many occasions make promises to the Tibetan people but it has been unfulfilled. Tibetans lost trust in Nechung.

The ban against Shugden as requested by Nechung did not fulfill it’s purpose. Many Tibetans are questioning this now. The Tibetans say no benefits have arisen from banning Dorje Shugden’s practice. Only disharmony and disunity arose from this ban. The ban was wrong. Many Tibetans in India and abroad are quietly and secretly returning to Dorje Shugden’s practice now. Many Tibetans said they have practiced Dorje Shugden for many generations and were forced to give up the practice hoping to get Tibet back as promised by Nechung. But this has not happened.



Photo:

Statue of Nechung in Nechung Monastery. Many senior Tibetan lamas question why Nechung who is a spirit originally from Persia brought to Tibet by traders get more offerings on his shrine than Lord Buddha? Why does a spirit get more offerings than Lord Buddha Himself? Dalai Lama said we should make more offerings to Buddha and not a spirit yet Nechung gets more offerings. Why does the Dalai Lama allow this as it contradicts his own advice.

Dorje Shugden ban has been around for more than 20 years now, and the Tibetan government is still unable to bring Tibetans in exile back to Tibet. Isn't that what Nechung said? Dorje Shugden is harming the Tibetan cause, and that is the reason why they failed to negotiate with China to give them back an independent Tibet.

So the Tibetan leadership had 20 years to work on Tibetan cause after Dorje Shugden's practice was banned. Then why the Tibetans in exile are still in India? Why aren't they are back in Tibet? So the Tibetan government failed even though there are no disturbances from Dorje Shugden? What is their excuse this time?

Are they going to continue to say it is Dorje Shugden's fault even after the ban on his practice is imposed? Why are they keeping quiet now? What happened to all the allegations they made about Dorje Shugden and a lot of them turn out to be false? The Tibetan government cannot hang on to their lives forever and sooner or later the truth will be revealed.

Tenzin K

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Tibetan in India had enough of all the lies from the Tibetan leadership. Not that they reject Dalai Lama but they felt cheated by their own leaders for not doing what they promised. It's been 60 years and Tibetan in India have not improved in their welfare but we can see CTA can afford US passport. Even the leaders like Lobsang Sangya already set his path what to say for the rest.


Tracy

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The failure to free Tibet is definitely not Dorje Shugden's fault. Nechung has been giving wrong advices even when the Dalai Lama was still in Tibet. It is said that Nechung is not enlightened, his clairvoyance power is limited. Therefore, the prophecy he gives can be wrong.

CTA is not really putting an effort to make sure Tibet cause is a success. As it is, they are getting free money from their sponsors, they don't have to work hard for anything, why do they want to change the current status? If they really have freed Tibet, they will have to work harder to manage a country with millions of population.

CTA is smart in the sense that they find ways to not do work and find scapegoats to be blamed for their inefficiency. They totally ignore the welfare of the normal Tibetans, they can even sacrifice the lives of the Tibetans to protect their own interest. They constantly encourage the Tibetans to self-immolate.

Alex

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The failure to free Tibet is definitely not Dorje Shugden's fault. Nechung has been giving wrong advices even when the Dalai Lama was still in Tibet. It is said that Nechung is not enlightened, his clairvoyance power is limited. Therefore, the prophecy he gives can be wrong.

CTA is not really putting an effort to make sure Tibet cause is a success. As it is, they are getting free money from their sponsors, they don't have to work hard for anything, why do they want to change the current status? If they really have freed Tibet, they will have to work harder to manage a country with millions of population.

CTA is smart in the sense that they find ways to not do work and find scapegoats to be blamed for their inefficiency. They totally ignore the welfare of the normal Tibetans, they can even sacrifice the lives of the Tibetans to protect their own interest. They constantly encourage the Tibetans to self-immolate.

Who wants to forever stay in India and never be able to have a good future? If I am a Tibetan, I would not want to spend the rest of my life in Tibetan settlement camps in India. What a horrible place to be with a horrible government. I would never entrust my future in the hands of CTA.

Just look at what they had accomplished for the past 60 years? Nothing aside from hundreds of Tibetans killing themselves to fight for the independence of Tibet while CTA sits back and did nothing. They even have the audacity to publish a manual to teach the Tibetans on how to immolate themselves better. What kind of government does that?

Tibetans in exile should escape from CTA as fast as they can before they are being used as a pawn to get more donation and attention from the western countries. China is now opening their arms to Tibetans who wish to return to Tibet and Tibetans should treasure this opportunity because CTA will never be able to get them back to Tibet.

Tenzin K

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It's been 60 years long and Tibetans just had enough. They can't see their future and what worst is that it affect the second generation.Who can really keep staying like this. CTA didn't do anything for them and just keep using them to raise fund but nothing from the fund being transferred to benefit them. After 60 years CTA still depended on funding and can't be self-sustain. How long more people will go with their cause which is never ending?

The Tibetans will definitely look for alternative and make their own decision for their future because the older generation had wasted their but they would do something for their next generation. Tibetan leadership failed to show good example for their people, that's why no Tibetans will one to be part of the CTA. Further looking at the Indian government action that started to show no support to the Tibetan leadership is a sign that the host will no longer be at their side and situation will be from bad to worst for the Tibetan.

CTA may still not realise how critical the situation is, but for many Tibetans which still strong and able to think would rather try their luck and chance to explore other means for their future.

Drolma

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60 years of being a refugee in India is enough for the Tibetans. There is no direction from the CTA what will happen next, the CTA is still doing what they were doing for the past 60 years for the Tibet cause, how are they going to be successful with their cause if they don't change their strategy. I guess this is also what the Tibetans have realised so they have completely lost their confidence in the CTA and decided to move on.

The normal Tibetans are the ones that suffer the most in the Tibet issue. Many of them escaped from Tibet with the Dalai Lama and they were very hopeful in returning to Tibet but this did not happen. They settled down in India but are without an identity. Their refugee status is being used by their own leadership to make money for themselves.

There is so much progress in Tibet and the lives of the Tibetans in China has improved tremendously. They have so much opportunity compared to the Tibetans in India. How can the Tibetans in India continue to trust the Tibetan leadership? The CTA has shown no result, they have disappointed all the Tibetans. The CTA has to admit they have failed miserably.

Alex

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If I am a Tibetan in exile in India, I would have escaped to other countries a long long time ago. The situation in India is so bad that there is literally no hope for those Tibetans there. There are so many opportunities out there waiting for them and many Tibetans are leading successful lives in those countries.

Why are they choosing to stay in those Tibetan settlements when only failures, disappointments, and poverty awaits them? Tibetan government is clearly not going to be any better or improve. They are just going to degenerate to a point where they are useless and they are not doing anything for the people.

Lobsang Sangay is not a good leader and this is shown clearly in the result of him being the President of CTA for years. He achieved nothing other than more violence, discrimination and deaths in the Tibetan community in exile. Tibetans have to wake up and see the truth and not have blind faith in the CTA.

Tenzin K

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Tibetans are not rejecting Dalai Lama but disappointed. The longest 60 years the Tibetans stay with Dalai lama as refugees but what have they got? How CTA take care of their welfare? What improvement in term of lifestyle? Where is the good news for them to return back to Tibet?

Tibetan is living in there dark and losing hope. CTA will only go to them when CTA needs something. IF the Tibetan are well-taken care, no one will leave. Everyone will stay put and move along with Dalai Lama. Too bad CTA only look after themselves and neglect their own people. Once Tibetans are reducing in-exile then CTA will start to jump up and down because CTA will need the people in order to get funding.

Drolma

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If I am a Tibetan in exile in India, I would have escaped to other countries a long long time ago. The situation in India is so bad that there is literally no hope for those Tibetans there. There are so many opportunities out there waiting for them and many Tibetans are leading successful lives in those countries.

Why are they choosing to stay in those Tibetan settlements when only failures, disappointments, and poverty awaits them? Tibetan government is clearly not going to be any better or improve. They are just going to degenerate to a point where they are useless and they are not doing anything for the people.

Lobsang Sangay is not a good leader and this is shown clearly in the result of him being the President of CTA for years. He achieved nothing other than more violence, discrimination and deaths in the Tibetan community in exile. Tibetans have to wake up and see the truth and not have blind faith in the CTA.

You are right, many Tibetans in India are finding their ways to leave India, no one wants to stay in India because there is no hope. CTA promises to bring Tibetans back to Tibet and free Tibet but until today, there is no result. Life in India as a refugee is not getting any better. Indians don't really like Tibetans.

Tibetans in Tibet are also not coming to India anymore. Opportunities in Tibet in terms of education and career are much better. There are many universities in China and Tibet for Tibetans to attend and they can also own a business if they want. In India, it is impossible to own a business if they are refugees.

CTA is very disappointing, they cannot be trusted. Tibetans see that the Dalai Lama is getting older and they have accepted the fact that Free Tibet Movement is a mission impossible. They have no choice but to leave. No one really wants to remain a refugee.

Alex

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If I am a Tibetan in exile in India, I would have escaped to other countries a long long time ago. The situation in India is so bad that there is literally no hope for those Tibetans there. There are so many opportunities out there waiting for them and many Tibetans are leading successful lives in those countries.

Why are they choosing to stay in those Tibetan settlements when only failures, disappointments, and poverty awaits them? Tibetan government is clearly not going to be any better or improve. They are just going to degenerate to a point where they are useless and they are not doing anything for the people.

Lobsang Sangay is not a good leader and this is shown clearly in the result of him being the President of CTA for years. He achieved nothing other than more violence, discrimination and deaths in the Tibetan community in exile. Tibetans have to wake up and see the truth and not have blind faith in the CTA.

You are right, many Tibetans in India are finding their ways to leave India, no one wants to stay in India because there is no hope. CTA promises to bring Tibetans back to Tibet and free Tibet but until today, there is no result. Life in India as a refugee is not getting any better. Indians don't really like Tibetans.

Tibetans in Tibet are also not coming to India anymore. Opportunities in Tibet in terms of education and career are much better. There are many universities in China and Tibet for Tibetans to attend and they can also own a business if they want. In India, it is impossible to own a business if they are refugees.

CTA is very disappointing, they cannot be trusted. Tibetans see that the Dalai Lama is getting older and they have accepted the fact that Free Tibet Movement is a mission impossible. They have no choice but to leave. No one really wants to remain a refugee.

It is a good time for the Tibetans to free themselves for the years and years of oppression. CTA  had been oppressing them for so many years and they don't even know it. It is because of the faith of the Tibetans have for His Holiness the Dalai Lama is very strong.

Once His Holiness the Dalai Lama is not around anymore, I do not think the Tibetans will still follow CTA. The Tibetans will leave the CTA and migrate to other countries or join India as a Citizen. At that time, CTA will disappear on its own when there is no more Tibetans for them to rule over.

Tibet will never get its independence and China will not allow it. China invested so much into Tibet and it will be stupid for them to just give up Tibet like this.

dsnowlion

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Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2019, 08:45:58 AM »
Well, it looks like Indians are getting impatient with Tibetan refugees staying and sucking up their land and resources. The Adivasi Adhikar Manch (AAM) in India is voicing their unhappiness as Tibetan refugees are occupying their land, getting all the perks while original Indians are suffering, which they have every right to voice out their rights.

So after 60 years, you'd think the Tibetan/CTA knows how to "give back" to the Indian community and try to appease the locals, instead they are creating problems?

The AAM members do not want the Indian Gov to renew the Tibetan Settlement's lease and warned they would resort to agitation if they do.


Quote
Tribals in Odisha seek cancellation of Tibetan refugees’ land lease

DHARAMSHALA, Sept. 16: Adivasi Adhikar Manch (AAM) in Odisha is reportedly seeking the cancellation of state land lease to Phuntsokling Tibetan Settlement located in Gajapati district.

AAM members said the increasing number of Tibetan residents has created problems for the tribals residing in adjoining Jiranga and Labarsingh blocks in the district and warned that they would resort to agitation if the State Government renews the lease of Tibetan residents, according to New Indian Express report.

In 2012, Tibetans couldn’t cultivate fields after organized mobs of neighbouring tribal accused Tibetans of illegally encroaching land and hoisted a red flag in the field to assert their claim.

In response, Department of Home of the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) issued a statement on May 9, 2013, in which it said the settlement was established in 1963 on 2,250-acre land offered by Odisha government for resettlement of 2479 Tibetans with the land lease to be extended every 10 to 20 years.

“In between 1995 and 2008, there was a lapse of renewal of the land lease. Thereafter, the government allowed land lease renewal from 2008-2018, but local authorities could not release individual farmer’s Land Lease Patta (Govt. land lease document) due to constant pressure from a vested interest group.”

The statement said all farmers in the settlement were eventually granted temporary (2008-2018) Land lease Patta by May 2013, and added, “but the issuance of the Community and Reserve lands Patta of the settlement are currently being discussed with the local administration.”

According to CTA data, there has been an increase of 313 residents in the last 60 years in the agriculture-based settlement.

Source: http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41767&article=Tribals+in+Odisha+seek+cancellation+of+Tibetan+refugees%e2%80%99+land+lease

Tracy

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Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2019, 07:41:15 AM »
Well, it looks like Indians are getting impatient with Tibetan refugees staying and sucking up their land and resources. The Adivasi Adhikar Manch (AAM) in India is voicing their unhappiness as Tibetan refugees are occupying their land, getting all the perks while original Indians are suffering, which they have every right to voice out their rights.

So after 60 years, you'd think the Tibetan/CTA knows how to "give back" to the Indian community and try to appease the locals, instead they are creating problems?

The AAM members do not want the Indian Gov to renew the Tibetan Settlement's lease and warned they would resort to agitation if they do.


Quote
Tribals in Odisha seek cancellation of Tibetan refugees’ land lease

DHARAMSHALA, Sept. 16: Adivasi Adhikar Manch (AAM) in Odisha is reportedly seeking the cancellation of state land lease to Phuntsokling Tibetan Settlement located in Gajapati district.

AAM members said the increasing number of Tibetan residents has created problems for the tribals residing in adjoining Jiranga and Labarsingh blocks in the district and warned that they would resort to agitation if the State Government renews the lease of Tibetan residents, according to New Indian Express report.

In 2012, Tibetans couldn’t cultivate fields after organized mobs of neighbouring tribal accused Tibetans of illegally encroaching land and hoisted a red flag in the field to assert their claim.

In response, Department of Home of the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) issued a statement on May 9, 2013, in which it said the settlement was established in 1963 on 2,250-acre land offered by Odisha government for resettlement of 2479 Tibetans with the land lease to be extended every 10 to 20 years.

“In between 1995 and 2008, there was a lapse of renewal of the land lease. Thereafter, the government allowed land lease renewal from 2008-2018, but local authorities could not release individual farmer’s Land Lease Patta (Govt. land lease document) due to constant pressure from a vested interest group.”

The statement said all farmers in the settlement were eventually granted temporary (2008-2018) Land lease Patta by May 2013, and added, “but the issuance of the Community and Reserve lands Patta of the settlement are currently being discussed with the local administration.”

According to CTA data, there has been an increase of 313 residents in the last 60 years in the agriculture-based settlement.

Source: http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41767&article=Tribals+in+Odisha+seek+cancellation+of+Tibetan+refugees%e2%80%99+land+lease



2,250-acre of land is a big land area, if cultivated well, it can generate a lot of income. If the Tibetans are not going to do anything about the land, why lease it to them? The land belongs to Indians, rightfully they can have it back.

This is why Indians are getting annoyed with the Tibetans. The Tibetans are given so many privileges and perks but they abuse these benefits. Not only that, they expect Indian government to give more support and to give it indefinitely. But what did the Tibetans give back to the Indian government?

More and more Indians are voicing out their dissatisfaction with the CTA and the Tibetans. If Tibetans want to remain in India, they should work with the Indian government, stop creating troubles to them. Show people with actions not with words. But knowing how the CTA work, it is very unlikely the CTA is going to do anything to improve the situation.