Author Topic: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche  (Read 2406 times)

Ringo Starr

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Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« on: January 16, 2019, 01:16:05 PM »
In light of recent developments, this letter from Sharma Rinpoche to Robert Thurman is even more enlightening and exposes the great lies that have been told by the many biased individuals who must have something to gain.

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/letter-to-robert-a-f-thurman-by-shamar-rinpoche/

May all the lies being told regarding Dorje Shugden be expelled!

https://www.tilogaard.dk/english/html/answer_to_robert_thurman.html

Bob Thurman, who is the real Karmapa? Please answer.

Alex

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2019, 01:04:42 AM »
I am amazed how good Sharma Rinpoche's letter to Robert Thurman totally squashed him like a bug between his fingers. What Sharma Rinpoche wrote is very direct, truthful and strong. There is no way to refute what Sharma Rinpoche wrote because it is the truth and it shows how twisted and hypocritical Robert Thurman is to have come out with the letter in the first place.

Him being the "scholar" here is totally ignorant of how Dalai Lama is NOT involved in the recognition of any Karmapas until the previous Karmapa. His Holiness is a Gelug lama which should not involve or have any authority in recognising High lamas from another sect because he is not the head of all sect of Tibetan Buddhism. Each sect has their own system of recognising their own lamas and they have the head of the sect to do it. Hence, His Holiness the Dalai Lama's intervention in the recognition of the 17th Karmapa is totally uncalled for and inappropriate. It is an act of political move.

This shows that Robert Thurman although being a so-called "scholar" he is not really that scholarly or he is just being a Dalai Lama fanatic who thinks His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the king of the Tibetan Buddhism and he can do whatever he wants. Bob Thurman even wrote in the letter saying that Sharma Rinpoche should agree to His Holiness the Dalai Lama's candidate of Karmapa while Sharma Rinpoche has the full right and authority over the Dalai Lama to recognise the Karmapa himself! What a joke. This shows Bob Thurman is not that "scholarly" after all.

Drolma

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2019, 04:10:04 AM »
What authority does Robert Thurman have to say which Karmapa is real and which is not? No one asks his opinion, he just voluntarily steps in to create problems in the Kagyu lineage. No wonder the Sharmapa has to issue a statement in response to that.

No other scholars make any statement on the Karmapa because this is complicated and does not have anything to do with what they are doing. Most of them when they do their research they are very neutral, they use the fact to support what they write. It is very seldom they put their personal opinion trying to manipulate the readers for their own benefits.

This statement issued by Robert Thurman using the letterhead of the university and the position he held in the university is a very clear example of how he is trying to influence people and create division within the Kagyupas. As a Buddhist, he is not promoting harmony, he is creating schism and breaking a lineage apart. He is very close to the CTA and the Dalai Lama. If they are not stopping him from doing that, it must be that they are in agreement with Robert Thurman, they want to break Kagyu lineage apart too!

Tracy

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2019, 07:45:20 AM »
I have always thought this Robert Thurman is more like a politician, opportunist than a Buddhist practitioner. He likes to take photos with high lamas and famous people, he is very close to rich but scandalous lamas. He commercialises Dharma by selling meditation program and encourages people to kill. He has not set up one center to spread Dharma to benefit people.

The Karmapa issue is none of Robert Thurman's business, why did he want to meddle in their internal affair? He was not even asked for his opinion. A real Buddhist practitioner will focus on the teachings of their own lineage, they will study and share the Dharma with people, they will not get involved in the affair of another tradition.

What Robert Thurman does is always aligned with what the CTA is doing. The CTA must have paid him a lot to create troubles like how they paid Tenzin Peljor to spead hate speech. Power, money, and fame are what Robert Thurman wants, that is why he will listen and follow what the CTA says. We shall wait and see, when the CTA is no longer in existence, Robert Thurman will lose everything.

Alex

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2019, 11:01:00 AM »
I have always thought this Robert Thurman is more like a politician, opportunist than a Buddhist practitioner. He likes to take photos with high lamas and famous people, he is very close to rich but scandalous lamas. He commercialises Dharma by selling meditation program and encourages people to kill. He has not set up one center to spread Dharma to benefit people.

The Karmapa issue is none of Robert Thurman's business, why did he want to meddle in their internal affair? He was not even asked for his opinion. A real Buddhist practitioner will focus on the teachings of their own lineage, they will study and share the Dharma with people, they will not get involved in the affair of another tradition.

What Robert Thurman does is always aligned with what the CTA is doing. The CTA must have paid him a lot to create troubles like how they paid Tenzin Peljor to spead hate speech. Power, money, and fame are what Robert Thurman wants, that is why he will listen and follow what the CTA says. We shall wait and see, when the CTA is no longer in existence, Robert Thurman will lose everything.

Robert Thurman is not a "Buddhist" and let alone a "Professor". His actions do not seem to reflect him being a Buddhist, and also the His Holiness the Dalai Lama's man in America. He is very materialistic and does not believe in karma. It is quite obvious to know that he as a Buddhist that does not believe in karma. Do you know that his meditation spa, Menla in Catskills promoted flyfishing?

The meditation spa is a Buddhist meditation spa where dharma courses are being delivered and only vegetarian meals are allowed. However, they promoted flyfishing activity on their main Twitter account to boost their business. They are actually promoting killing and torturing of animals. It is against what Lord Buddha taught. It is obvious that they are using Dharma to earn money.

On the other hand, by seeing the letter that Robert Thurman sent out. It is obvious that he does not know what is the system for other sects to recognise their own tulkus. Him being the so-called "scholar" of Tibetan Buddhism should know. In conclusion, he is a man that uses Dharma for profits.

Drolma

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2019, 05:07:52 PM »
If Robert Thurman is a real Buddhist practitioner, with his year of practice and his relationship with the Dalai Lama, he will be able to open many Dharma center to benefit people. Looking for sponsorships to do that will not be a problem to him as he has many rich and famous friends. He has also written a lot of books endorsed by the Dalai Lama, he has everything he needs to run a Dharma center but he has not even opened one.

He is very much engaged in commercial activity. He writes Dharma books for sale, he has the Menla center selling meditation program, he uses Dharma to make money for himself. Selling Dharma for personal interest creates a lot of bad karmas, he should know it but he is still doing it. His hunger for power, money, and fame is way too much, helping others is never his intention.

It is not hard to see he is working for the CTA. Everything he does is very aligned with the CTA. He once issued a letter to support the Karmpa who is 'recognised' by the CTA even though nobody asked for his permission. The CTA imposed the ban and segregated Dorje Shugden followers, he also did the same. For the money, power, and fame, he will do everything.

SabS

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2019, 05:11:47 AM »
It is so audacious of Robert Thurman to dare even issue such a letter when he has no authority whatsoever. As we all know, his Buddhist knowledge and practices are hypocritical and only able to fool beginners at best. Well, the letter from Shamar Rinpoche sure put him in his place. Bob's brains must be addled by old age and pride of being near the Dalai Lama. So many of his activities are contradictory of the precious teachings received from the Dalai Lama, ie. owner of Menhla Spa which promotes torture of fishes (fly fishing), no Guru devotion (left his attained Gurus and abandon his practices), advocating offenders (being buddies with sex offenders like  Sogyal Lakhar) and so many more. He is the antithesis to the Buddhist practices he teaches.

Tracy

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 06:16:42 AM »
Doesn't Robert Thurman have anything to say with regards to the Karmapa's scandal? He always likes to criticise and thinks he is the authority, why is he keeping quiet like the CTA now? Very clearly, Robert Thurman is paid by the CTA to help them execute their evil plan, Robert Thurman will not do anything until the CTA asks him to.

It is so sad that someone has to use the name of Dharma and high lama to gain fame, power and wealth. He has the connection to so many high lamas, if he really studies and practices, he could have been someone very beneficial to people. He could have been like Lama Ole Nydahl who is not an ordained monk but has opened so many Dharma centers and given so many Dharma teachings to change people's life.

It does not matter if we are a Sangha or a layperson. If we practice Dharma sincerely and transform into a better person, people will gain their faith in Dharma too. We must have the correct motivation when we deal with people. Never be selfish but always think what benefit can we give to someone.

Alex

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 09:47:33 AM »
Doesn't Robert Thurman have anything to say with regards to the Karmapa's scandal? He always likes to criticise and thinks he is the authority, why is he keeping quiet like the CTA now? Very clearly, Robert Thurman is paid by the CTA to help them execute their evil plan, Robert Thurman will not do anything until the CTA asks him to.

It is so sad that someone has to use the name of Dharma and high lama to gain fame, power and wealth. He has the connection to so many high lamas, if he really studies and practices, he could have been someone very beneficial to people. He could have been like Lama Ole Nydahl who is not an ordained monk but has opened so many Dharma centers and given so many Dharma teachings to change people's life.

It does not matter if we are a Sangha or a layperson. If we practice Dharma sincerely and transform into a better person, people will gain their faith in Dharma too. We must have the correct motivation when we deal with people. Never be selfish but always think what benefit can we give to someone.

It is funny that Robert Thurman being a nobody will write to Sharmapa regarding his decision on Karmapa. This is how arrogant he is. Who is he to give advice to Sharmapa regarding the recognition of the 17th Karmapa? Is he that qualified to "advice" the great Sharmapa on the Karmapa issue?

It has been the tradition of Karmapa for Sharmapa to recognize the new incarnation of the Karmapa and vice versa. It always has been like that until Tibetan leadership and Situ Rinpoche decided otherwise. They have no authority in recognizing the Karmapa as long as Sharmapa is around. Instead of following the traditionally correct way, they went ahead and make use of His Holiness the Dalai Lama's fame to recognize their own Karmapa.

This created a lot of problems for Karma Kagyu followers and monks. They are torn in between supporting which Karmapa. Eventually, the confusion escalated into violence during the enthronement of Karmapa Thaye Dorje by Sharmapa. All because of people like Robert Thurman are not familiar with the traditions and supported with the recognition of Dalai Lama's Karmapa.

Drolma

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2019, 05:44:03 AM »
Robert Thurman should just shut up and mind his own business. He is not a person with authority, he got his fame by being close to the Dalai Lama and the CTA. He always takes side and he is biased. Just look at how he treats the Dorje Shugden practitioners. As a Buddhist, there is no compassion from him.

He likes money and fame, what he has today is the result of him being close to the Dalai Lama and the CTA. He has enjoyed fame, money and power. But this will not last for long. The CTA is getting weaker now, very soon nobody will want to donate money to them because  they mismanage the fund. Besides, no one will have the capacity to continue to support them for the next 50 years.

If Robert Thurman is wise, he should distance himself away from the CTA and be true for once. Use his Dharma knowledge to benefit people not to create disharmony or schisms among the Buddhist community. He has done so much damage to Tibetan Buddhism, he should use his remaining time to make up what he has done so he doesn't have to suffer so much.

Ringo Starr

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2019, 06:13:11 PM »
Robert Thurman should just shut up and mind his own business. He is not a person with authority, he got his fame by being close to the Dalai Lama and the CTA. He always takes side and he is biased. Just look at how he treats the Dorje Shugden practitioners. As a Buddhist, there is no compassion from him.

He likes money and fame, what he has today is the result of him being close to the Dalai Lama and the CTA. He has enjoyed fame, money and power. But this will not last for long. The CTA is getting weaker now, very soon nobody will want to donate money to them because  they mismanage the fund. Besides, no one will have the capacity to continue to support them for the next 50 years.

If Robert Thurman is wise, he should distance himself away from the CTA and be true for once. Use his Dharma knowledge to benefit people not to create disharmony or schisms among the Buddhist community. He has done so much damage to Tibetan Buddhism, he should use his remaining time to make up what he has done so he doesn't have to suffer so much.


I fully agree.

I think he should, especially at his elderly age, seek to live up to his
secular credentials by being a true practitioner. It is still not too late
to apply the four opponent powers.

Well, that is up to him I guess.




Alex

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 11:34:40 PM »
Robert Thurman should just shut up and mind his own business. He is not a person with authority, he got his fame by being close to the Dalai Lama and the CTA. He always takes side and he is biased. Just look at how he treats the Dorje Shugden practitioners. As a Buddhist, there is no compassion from him.

He likes money and fame, what he has today is the result of him being close to the Dalai Lama and the CTA. He has enjoyed fame, money and power. But this will not last for long. The CTA is getting weaker now, very soon nobody will want to donate money to them because  they mismanage the fund. Besides, no one will have the capacity to continue to support them for the next 50 years.

If Robert Thurman is wise, he should distance himself away from the CTA and be true for once. Use his Dharma knowledge to benefit people not to create disharmony or schisms among the Buddhist community. He has done so much damage to Tibetan Buddhism, he should use his remaining time to make up what he has done so he doesn't have to suffer so much.


I fully agree.

I think he should, especially at his elderly age, seek to live up to his
secular credentials by being a true practitioner. It is still not too late
to apply the four opponent powers.

Well, that is up to him I guess.

It just baffles me that Robert Thurman even has the audacity to write to Sharma Rinpoche to tell him off by saying he has no evidence in his claims. How stupid is that? It has been the tradition of the Karmapa and Sharmapa to recognize each other and they have the full authority to do that on their own. Why would he need to show evidence to "prove" that he is doing the right thing

He is saying His Holiness the Dalai Lama is qualified to recognize a lama from another sect where he has never done it before? The only reason the public allows and also accepts it because they are unaware of the traditions in Tibetan Buddhism. Robert Thurman does not have the privilege to say he does not know since he is a Buddhist "scholar". What kind of "scholar" he is?

It shows how ignorant and arrogant he is to write such a letter to a High lama from another sect which he is totally not familiar with. Being close to His Holiness really messes up with his brain. Someone should kindly remove him from Dalai Lama's side so that he will not damage His Holiness with his actions.

Tracy

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2019, 08:02:06 PM »
Robert Thurman and the CTA make a perfect couple. Both like money and power, both will do what they can for their personal gain even if the method used is illegal. Robert Thurman is definitely paid by the CTA to execute their dirty jobs. 

Actually, not many Buddhist scholars have high regards on Robert Thurman, they find his work to be very biased especially when it comes to Dorje Shugden controversy. He is not neutral when he touches this subject. Not only that, but he also meddled in the religious matter of other lineages when he does not have any authority at all.

Most likely he wrote the letter concerning the Karmapa under the instruction of the CTA. He likes to think he has the authority but he doesn't. Nobody really respects him. How Sharma Rinpoche replied him is a big slap on his face. The CTA is getting weaker day by day, it is a bad idea to continue to associate with the CTA. Very soon the CTA will collapse and Robert Thurman will lose his fame, power and money.

Alex

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2019, 08:12:06 AM »
Robert Thurman and the CTA make a perfect couple. Both like money and power, both will do what they can for their personal gain even if the method used is illegal. Robert Thurman is definitely paid by the CTA to execute their dirty jobs. 

Actually, not many Buddhist scholars have high regards on Robert Thurman, they find his work to be very biased especially when it comes to Dorje Shugden controversy. He is not neutral when he touches this subject. Not only that, but he also meddled in the religious matter of other lineages when he does not have any authority at all.

Most likely he wrote the letter concerning the Karmapa under the instruction of the CTA. He likes to think he has the authority but he doesn't. Nobody really respects him. How Sharma Rinpoche replied him is a big slap on his face. The CTA is getting weaker day by day, it is a bad idea to continue to associate with the CTA. Very soon the CTA will collapse and Robert Thurman will lose his fame, power and money.

I agree with you Tracy. How big of an ego that Robert Thurman has to write that letter? He is just a normal Buddhist professor that happens to be quiet close to His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Being close to His Holiness the Dalai Lama really messes with his head and let him think that he is actually somebody and he can go around to be religion police.

He has been prosecuting Dorje Shugden practitioners for their choice of religion and now he wants to tell Sharmapa that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has and can recognize the new Karmapa. This a total joke. I truly wonder how did he get his Professor title on Buddhist studies because it is well known that Sharmapa being the 2nd in line of power in Karma Kagyu sect has the full power to recognize the new Karmapa without needed the consent from anyone. It has been like this for many generations.

How can Robert Thurman does not know about this fact and he tries to justify that His Holiness the Dalai Lama can recognize the Karmapa. The only reason why His Holiness the Dalai Lama's Karmapa is accepted is that he is famous and everyone wants to be seen to support His Holiness because it will bring them tremendous benefit.

Drolma

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Re: Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman by Shamar Rinpoche
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2019, 06:54:28 PM »
Doesn't Robert Thurman have anything to say with regards to the Karmapa's scandal? He always likes to criticise and thinks he is the authority, why is he keeping quiet like the CTA now? Very clearly, Robert Thurman is paid by the CTA to help them execute their evil plan, Robert Thurman will not do anything until the CTA asks him to.

It is so sad that someone has to use the name of Dharma and high lama to gain fame, power and wealth. He has the connection to so many high lamas, if he really studies and practices, he could have been someone very beneficial to people. He could have been like Lama Ole Nydahl who is not an ordained monk but has opened so many Dharma centers and given so many Dharma teachings to change people's life.

It does not matter if we are a Sangha or a layperson. If we practice Dharma sincerely and transform into a better person, people will gain their faith in Dharma too. We must have the correct motivation when we deal with people. Never be selfish but always think what benefit can we give to someone.

For the past 60 years, the CTA has not groomed any good talents in the Tibetan community. What they have found and made friends with are talents like Lama Tseta and Tenzin Peljor who lie to get money, Robert Thurman who leeches on the Dalai Lama's fame to make himself famous, Buddhist teachers who sexually abused their students, etc. These people are helping the CTA to destroy other people's lives and to create problems for others.

Robert Thurman is famous for wanting to hire hackers to attack Dorje Shugden followers on social media. He also spreads hate speech and lies to try to destroy Dorje Shugden followers. Even though he claims he is a Buddhist, but he does not believe in karma. If he does, he will not continue to do what he has been doing.

It is sad that some people have access to the most respected Buddhist master such as the Dalai Lama but they are not able to really practice Dharma. They love to listen to Dharma but not practicing it. Robert Thurman could have had lots of realisations but since his motivation is not right, he cannot progress in his spiritual practice.