Author Topic: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama  (Read 2614 times)

Drolma

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2019, 12:46:06 AM »
The Karmapa Thaye Dorje really does not need the recognition from the Dalai Lama because it has never been in the tradition that the reincarnation of the Karmapa has to be recognised by the Dalai Lama. Vice versa, the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama does not need the lama of another lineage to recognise them.

Seeking a recognition from the Dalai Lama is purely for political reason and ease of work for people. Majority of the people in the world do not know how Tibetan Buddhism works. They think the Dalai Lama is the authority of the whole Tibetan Buddhism. Out of convenience, the CTA and the Dalai Lama didn't bother to explain because this type of misconception actually brings benefits to them.

As time passes by, it is proven that not having the recognition from the Dalai Lama was actually a blessing in disguise. The Karmapa Thaye Dorje could travel and give teaching freely, he could focus on his studies. Now tha the Karmapa Ogyen Dorje has gone into a retreat, the other Karmapa's Dharma activity is growing.

Alex

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2019, 01:29:16 AM »
To CTA, religion is just a political tool and religious leaders are their political puppet. The sad thing is that even the Dalai Lama allowed this to happen. He knew Karmapa Thaye Dorje is the real Karmapa yet all these years he never said anything to clarify. I guess it's because he knew Sharmapa Rinpoche will never listen to him for political reason. Therefore, he let Karmapa Thaye Dorje to survive on his own, he never even took one photo with this Karmapa, on the contrary he showed full support to Karmapa Ogyen Trinley which makes Karmapa Thaye Dorje's life even harder as Tibetan might think he is the fake one. Fortunately Karmapa Thaye Dorje not only survive well but he even manage to gather a huge group of followers.

Now the Dalai Lama endorsed Karmapa has gone, then suddenly after so many years, the Dalai Lama suddenly wants to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje. Will anyone with a conscious mind believe what he is doing now is for the benefit of Karmapa Thaye Dorje? At least I don't think so.   

Anyone with a sane mind will be able to see through Tibetan leadership's tricks of and what they are up to with the new Karmapa. Tibetan leadership area really naive to think that the whole world could not see through their games. Only the Tibetans in exile are living in the bubble that they created and continues to stay there.

It is no coincidence when suddenly the Tibetan leadership decided to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje when their own Karmapa ran away and got caught with relationship scandals. It seems like they want to abandon ship with Karmapa Ogyen Trinley and move on to find a new substitute. Otherwise, there is nothing that they can justify their action of sudden interest in Karmapa Thaye Dorje.

Tibetan leadership had rejected Karmapa Thaye Dorje from day 1 and no pictures are taken with the Karmapa since. They even refused to let Karmapa Thaye Dorje to get ordained by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. However,  Karmapa Thaye Dorje turns out to be the real one, proven by his large number of followers and his son being suspected as the Sharmapa now.

daka

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2019, 07:23:19 AM »
Tibetan leadership had rejected Karmapa Thaye Dorje from day 1 and no pictures are taken with the Karmapa since. They even refused to let Karmapa Thaye Dorje to get ordained by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. However,  Karmapa Thaye Dorje turns out to be the real one, proven by his large number of followers and his son being suspected as the Sharmapa now.

I think this is meant by the real one will thrive. Some Tibetan monks told me, even if the authority recognized a wrong reincarnated lama, the truth will be revealed after a while especially if the post he is holding is very high. The wrong candidate may not have the karma to stay at a high position for long before he get sicks or passing away. Even if he manages to survive, his dharma work will not bear much result.

The fact that Karmapa Thaye Dorje makes it until now and manage to get a big pool of followers despite the bad condition, has already showed that he is the real karmapa.

vajratruth

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2019, 09:19:55 AM »


Now the Dalai Lama endorsed Karmapa has gone, then suddenly after so many years, the Dalai Lama suddenly wants to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje. Will anyone with a conscious mind believe what he is doing now is for the benefit of Karmapa Thaye Dorje? At least I don't think so.   

Anyone with a sane mind will be able to see through Tibetan leadership's tricks of and what they are up to with the new Karmapa. Tibetan leadership area really naive to think that the whole world could not see through their games. Only the Tibetans in exile are living in the bubble that they created and continues to stay there.

It is no coincidence when suddenly the Tibetan leadership decided to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje when their own Karmapa ran away and got caught with relationship scandals. It seems like they want to abandon ship with Karmapa Ogyen Trinley and move on to find a new substitute. Otherwise, there is nothing that they can justify their action of sudden interest in Karmapa Thaye Dorje.

Tibetan leadership had rejected Karmapa Thaye Dorje from day 1 and no pictures are taken with the Karmapa since. They even refused to let Karmapa Thaye Dorje to get ordained by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. However,  Karmapa Thaye Dorje turns out to be the real one, proven by his large number of followers and his son being suspected as the Sharmapa now.
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As absurd as it sounds, I think a large percentage will believe in anything the Dalai Lama and his government tells them. If you actually ask people why they 'love' the Dalai Lama, the Westerners will tell you he is a symbol of peace, love etc. The Easterners will not even have an answer because its typical of the asiatic attitude not to question and challenge. In other words, most people have at best a superficial knowledge about the Dalai Lama and CTA.

That's how they have been getting away with so many things. Just look at how many times, they changed their tune about why the Dalai Lama banned Dorje Shugden. The Dalai Lama was counting on the fact that most people cannot see through the absurdity of his allegations. Either they have inhaled too much of the CTA's propaganda or too determined to be angry at China to take a proper look and see that the Tibetan leaders are no different.

Therefore when the Karmapa Thaye Dorje makes a stand like this without inciting conflict, it makes people sit and pay attention. More Tibetan lamas should follow in the Kamapa Thaye Dorje's way.

christine V

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2019, 05:49:08 PM »
Dalai Lama is not the head of Kagyu school. Similar, he is not the head of Gelugpa. But, H.H have create so many disharmony

To interrupt people affair by recognise the head of the school is a very bad sign and thus it causes the chaos. Who is Dalai Lama to interfere like this, just because he is famous in international? 

Dalai Lama have created much conflict in Vajrayana Buddhism, from Dorje Shugden issues, where all monasteries divided into two to cast out Dorje Shugden practitioner.  How much more disharmony he wanted to show to the Buddhist world.

Alex

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2019, 06:15:26 PM »


Now the Dalai Lama endorsed Karmapa has gone, then suddenly after so many years, the Dalai Lama suddenly wants to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje. Will anyone with a conscious mind believe what he is doing now is for the benefit of Karmapa Thaye Dorje? At least I don't think so.   

Anyone with a sane mind will be able to see through Tibetan leadership's tricks of and what they are up to with the new Karmapa. Tibetan leadership area really naive to think that the whole world could not see through their games. Only the Tibetans in exile are living in the bubble that they created and continues to stay there.

It is no coincidence when suddenly the Tibetan leadership decided to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje when their own Karmapa ran away and got caught with relationship scandals. It seems like they want to abandon ship with Karmapa Ogyen Trinley and move on to find a new substitute. Otherwise, there is nothing that they can justify their action of sudden interest in Karmapa Thaye Dorje.

Tibetan leadership had rejected Karmapa Thaye Dorje from day 1 and no pictures are taken with the Karmapa since. They even refused to let Karmapa Thaye Dorje to get ordained by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. However,  Karmapa Thaye Dorje turns out to be the real one, proven by his large number of followers and his son being suspected as the Sharmapa now.


As absurd as it sounds, I think a large percentage will believe in anything the Dalai Lama and his government tells them. If you actually ask people why they 'love' the Dalai Lama, the Westerners will tell you he is a symbol of peace, love etc. The Easterners will not even have an answer because its typical of the asiatic attitude not to question and challenge. In other words, most people have at best a superficial knowledge about the Dalai Lama and CTA.

That's how they have been getting away with so many things. Just look at how many times, they changed their tune about why the Dalai Lama banned Dorje Shugden. The Dalai Lama was counting on the fact that most people cannot see through the absurdity of his allegations. Either they have inhaled too much of the CTA's propaganda or too determined to be angry at China to take a proper look and see that the Tibetan leaders are no different.

Therefore when the Karmapa Thaye Dorje makes a stand like this without inciting conflict, it makes people sit and pay attention. More Tibetan lamas should follow in the Karmapa Thaye Dorje's way.

The Tibetans have been worshipping His Holiness the Dalai Lama as the god-king of Tibet. Whatever he says is the golden rule that cannot be disobeyed. Those who disagree or disobey his instruction will face severe consequences and risk being rejected by their own community.

There is no way in the world that a government can act the way that Tibetan leadership did and get away with it and the people are still loyal to them. The monstrosity that the Tibetan leadership had done is totally unacceptable but the Tibetans still go along with them because of their faith and loyalty to His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

Without His Holiness, the Tibetan leadership will fall and it will be very soon. His Holiness is already at a ripe old age and he can choose to enter into clear light anytime he wants. In the post Dalai Lama era, Tibetan leadership will have a hard time controlling their people unless they manage to get another high lama such as the Karmapa.

Drolma

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2019, 01:37:02 PM »
Dalai Lama is not the head of Kagyu school. Similar, he is not the head of Gelugpa. But, H.H have create so many disharmony

To interrupt people affair by recognise the head of the school is a very bad sign and thus it causes the chaos. Who is Dalai Lama to interfere like this, just because he is famous in international? 

Dalai Lama have created much conflict in Vajrayana Buddhism, from Dorje Shugden issues, where all monasteries divided into two to cast out Dorje Shugden practitioner.  How much more disharmony he wanted to show to the Buddhist world.

The Karmapa Thaye Dorje really does not have to be friendly with the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama was the one who rejected him in the first place. The Karmapa does not need the Dalai Lama to give him the endorsement or recognition as it is not necessary.

The Karmapa Thaye Dorje has more freedom to do what he wants by not associating himself with the CTA or the Dalai Lama. He has many followers and he is also highly respected in the Karma Kagyu traditions. If he is nobody, it is not possible that his Dharma work actually flourishes.

The Karmapa Ogyen Trinley on the other hands has been closely related to the CTA and the Dalai Lama, look what he got himself into? He wasn't given the freedom to teach Dharma, he was forced to get involved in politics and he didn't receive the education he was hoping to get in India. Finally, he ran away from the CTA and the Dalai and went into a retreat.

Alex

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2019, 09:32:05 AM »
I mean what is His Holiness and the Tibetan government are hoping to get out of Karmapa Thaye Dorje? They are the one who refused to give him ordination when he requested His Holiness for it. Don't forget that they chose Karmapa Ogyen Trinley over him and even created the cause for Rumtek Monastery to be swarmed and attacked during Karmapa Thaye Dorje's enthronement ceremony.

Do they really expect Karmapa Thaye Dorje to act as nothing happened and drink tea with them? Dont be ridiculous. They are lucky for Karmapa Thaye Dorje to not expose their ugliness and evil deeds. It is fortunate for him to not be associated with the Tibetan government at all because they will probably ruin him as well like how they ruined Karmapa Ogyen Trinley.

Karmapa Thaye Dorje will be better off have no relation to the Tibetan leadership and looks like he is doing perfectly fine without their support. He is considered to be more successful than Karmapa Ogyen Trinley with disciples and sponsors all over the world. Especially now we find out that his son Thugsey is very likely to be the reincarnation of Sharmapa, he will be unstoppable and he will definitely lead the Karma Kagyupas to a brighter future.

dsnowlion

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2019, 03:25:02 AM »

Anyone with a sane mind will be able to see through Tibetan leadership's tricks of and what they are up to with the new Karmapa. Tibetan leadership area really naive to think that the whole world could not see through their games. Only the Tibetans in exile are living in the bubble that they created and continues to stay there.

It is no coincidence when suddenly the Tibetan leadership decided to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje when their own Karmapa ran away and got caught with relationship scandals. It seems like they want to abandon ship with Karmapa Ogyen Trinley and move on to find a new substitute. Otherwise, there is nothing that they can justify their action of sudden interest in Karmapa Thaye Dorje.

This is just so disgusting to me! How can they create so much problems for the Karma Kagyus until they split and divide people's lineage and now they want to be chummy and try to be friends? Why don't the Dalai Lama make a speech and ask to be pardon for butting into the Karma Kagyus business where he had no place to do so and create unity again between the division? If the two Karmapas can meet, but they both do not want to meet the Dalai Lama and staying away.... what does that tell us? Looks like the Dalai Lama's influence is dwindling and he has no power over them.

daka

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2019, 03:29:17 AM »
Do they really expect Karmapa Thaye Dorje to act as nothing happened and drink tea with them? Dont be ridiculous. They are lucky for Karmapa Thaye Dorje to not expose their ugliness and evil deeds. It is fortunate for him to not be associated with the Tibetan government at all because they will probably ruin him as well like how they ruined Karmapa Ogyen Trinley.

Well, I believe the CTA still think that Tibetans are supposed to be under their full control and they can do whatever they want freely with no shame. The fact that they dare to approach Karmapa Thaye Dorje after mistreating him for so many years is the proof. I won't be surprised if they are going to switch back to Karmapa Ogyen Trinley once they get hold of KOT again. This always happen to those who lies and with no strong stance.

dsnowlion

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2019, 04:24:09 AM »
Do they really expect Karmapa Thaye Dorje to act as nothing happened and drink tea with them? Dont be ridiculous. They are lucky for Karmapa Thaye Dorje to not expose their ugliness and evil deeds. It is fortunate for him to not be associated with the Tibetan government at all because they will probably ruin him as well like how they ruined Karmapa Ogyen Trinley.

Well, I believe the CTA still think that Tibetans are supposed to be under their full control and they can do whatever they want freely with no shame. The fact that they dare to approach Karmapa Thaye Dorje after mistreating him for so many years is the proof. I won't be surprised if they are going to switch back to Karmapa Ogyen Trinley once they get hold of KOT again. This always happen to those who lies and with no strong stance.

They can think all they want but results will prove what is right and what is wrong and so far all their results are just failures upon failures.

daka

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2019, 04:50:43 AM »
You are absolutely right. They can say what they want, and soon their audience will only be sikyong and his Kashag.  ;D

Tracy

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Re: 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2019, 04:55:25 AM »

Well, I believe the CTA still think that Tibetans are supposed to be under their full control and they can do whatever they want freely with no shame. The fact that they dare to approach Karmapa Thaye Dorje after mistreating him for so many years is the proof. I won't be surprised if they are going to switch back to Karmapa Ogyen Trinley once they get hold of KOT again. This always happen to those who lies and with no strong stance.

That is why people say the CTA is delusional. They have forgotten they are now a democratic government and they cannot treat the Tibetans like their slaves back in the old days. They have no leadership quality and yet they want to be arrogant. If they are not delusional, they would have humbled down and established a dialogue with China to discuss how to bring the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans back to Tibet. Everyone wants to be friendly with China because China is very powerful now and China can bring benefit to them. Only CTA is so arrogant to ignore China.