Author Topic: Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.  (Read 2956 times)

Harold Musetescu

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Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.
« on: October 11, 2018, 02:48:39 PM »
Here is a link to the Karmapa's website.

Both Karmapas have just concluded a private meeting in France that lasted several days.

https://www.karmapa.org/joint-statement-of-his-holiness-trinley-thaye-dorje-and-his-holiness-ogyen-trinley-dorje/

This is a quote from a joint statement and this statement was dated Oct. 11, 2018.

Quote
"Here is the English transcript of the joint statement:

His Holiness Ogyen Trinley Dorje and His Holiness Trinley Thaye Dorje met over the last few days at a rural location in France. Their purpose was to get to know each other personally. They also discussed how they might work together to preserve and strengthen the Karma Kagyu lineage of Tibetan Buddhism.

After their discussions, His Holiness Trinley Thaye Dorje and His Holiness Ogyen Trinley Dorje issued the following joint statement:

" We are both very pleased to have had this opportunity to meet and get to know each other in a peaceful and relaxed environment. We both had this wish for many years, and we are gratified that this wish has now been fulfilled.
 
The purpose of our meeting was primarily to spend time together so that we could establish a personal relationship. We were able to talk together freely and to learn about each other for the first time. We were thus able to begin what we expect will develop into a strong connection.

While we were together we also talked about ways that we could work to heal the divisions that have unfortunately developed within our precious Karma Kagyu lineage in recent years. We view it as our duty and responsibility to do whatever we can to bring the lineage together.

This undertaking is critically important for the future of the Karma Kagyu lineage as well as for the future of Tibetan Buddhism and the benefit of all sentient beings. We therefore ask everyone within the Karma Kagyu community to join us in our efforts to strengthen and preserve our lineage. We view it as our collective responsibility to restore harmony to our tradition which is a lineage of wisdom and compassion.

His Holiness Ogyen Trinley Dorje    His Holiness Trinley Thaye Dorje"
Unquote


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Harold Musetescu

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Harold Musetescu

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Re: Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2018, 01:38:57 PM »
Another link to another article.

https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/karmapas-meet/

Strangely nothing from either the CTA or the Dalai Lama on this historic meeting.

I wonder why?????

thaimonk

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Re: Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2018, 09:22:42 PM »
Since the two rival karmapas can make peace and be friends, the Dalai Lama should follow suit and become friends with all the Shugden people. He should be just as magnanimous.

SabS

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Re: Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2018, 10:51:59 AM »
This is such a rejoice for the Karma Kagyu sect to have both Karmapas joining in strengthening the teachings of Buddha. For those who were fortunate to be in this meeting, it must be a so interesting to witness two who arose from the same mind meet for the first time. It would seem as if His Holiness Ogyen Trinley Dorje will lead the seat of Karma Kagyu but no matter who leads, a united front working in tandem for the good of their lineage is all that matters.

I agree with thaimonk. If the Karmapas can unite, the Dalai Lama should have the greater compassion to unite with the Dorje Shugden people and it will bring his dream to return to Tibet so much the faster too. It will be the Shugden people who help the Dalai Lama realise his dream as CTA is totally too afraid in their selfishness to do so. The Shugden people had helped the Dalai Lama to escape during the Chinese invasion and now will help the Dalai Lama return. How prophetic! Now that Dorje Shugden practice had spread throughout the world, its time to go reconcile and go home.

Rowntree

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Re: Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2018, 06:50:10 PM »
What does the Karmapas meeting have to do with the Dorje Shugden controversy? These two Karmapas accepting each other or coming together is good but how does that benefit the Dorje Shugden issue? Are they setting examples to the Dalai Lama or going against his wish? Remember the Dalai Lama refused to recognise the white Karmapa Thaye Dorje and refused to support the Sharmarpa? Are these Karmapas way of saying I do not want to follow the Dalai Lama?

Tracy

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Re: Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2018, 09:14:42 PM »
What does the Karmapas meeting have to do with the Dorje Shugden controversy? These two Karmapas accepting each other or coming together is good but how does that benefit the Dorje Shugden issue? Are they setting examples to the Dalai Lama or going against his wish? Remember the Dalai Lama refused to recognise the white Karmapa Thaye Dorje and refused to support the Sharmarpa? Are these Karmapas way of saying I do not want to follow the Dalai Lama?

In a small community of around 100,000 people, the Tibetans have many issues that break them apart. There is the Dorje Shugden ban, the Rangzen and Middle Way Approach and the Karmapa issues. Until today, the CTA has not shown effort in resolving these issues.

Like what the Dalai Lama said before, it is possible that highly attained beings can manifest as few different individual when they take rebirth. Therefore, it is possible that both these 2 Karmapas are the emanations of the 16th Karmapa. There is no real or fake. The 17th Karmapa themselves also have not openly criticised the other as fake.

It is good to see the 2 of them meet with each other to look into this issue. I think this meeting is driven by their wish to preserve and protect their lineage. They know they cannot rely on the CTA to help them. Besides, this is a religious issue, it is better that the 2 of them work together to resolve it. It doesn't really matter if the Dalai Lama agrees with them. The Dalai Lama is not a Kagyu lama, his opinion is not important, he should not meddle in the affair of another tradition.

What does the Karmapas meeting have to do with the Dorje Shugden controversy? These two Karmapas accepting each other or coming together is good but how does that benefit the Dorje Shugden issue? Are they setting examples to the Dalai Lama or going against his wish? Remember the Dalai Lama refused to recognise the white Karmapa Thaye Dorje and refused to support the Sharmarpa? Are these Karmapas way of saying I do not want to follow the Dalai Lama?

Alex

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Re: Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2018, 05:56:44 PM »
It is really amazing for 2 of the Karmapas who are the supreme leader of the Karma Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism to meet up and resolve their differences. They are showing a very good example of how a Buddhist should behave. Both of them are considered by the public to be "enemies" because they are "competing" with each other to be enthroned as the one and only successor to the throne of the Rumtek monastery.

They are willing to put their differences aside and organise a meetup. I am sure that there are many people that are telling them that the meet up is a bad idea and whatnot, but I am glad that they push through all the obstacles to have the meeting. This meeting sends out a very powerful message to the Buddhist around the world irregardless of their tradition and more importantly, the follower of Karma Kagyu sect.

Since the recognition of the 2 Karmapas, the followers of Karma Kagyu sect has been divided. This is very bad for the survival of the tradition and Buddha's teaching. Now that they had met, they decided to resolve their differences to ensure the unity and preservation of the lineage. They are doing a very good as leaders and this shows that there are alot of segregation can be healed when both parties are willing to come together and resolve their differences.

I hope that His Holiness the Dalai Lama will meet up with the leaders of Dorje Shugden practitioners to talk and get over their differences and lift the ban. 

Drolma

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Re: Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2019, 08:36:19 AM »
I am really curious, after the 2 Karmapas met up, what was the outcome? What did they achieve? How come there is no announcement. I think many Karmapas are also very concerned. Who is the real Karmapa?

Perhaps both of them are the reincarnation of the 16th Karmapa. Like what the Dalai Lama mentioned before, it is possible for a high lama to have multiple emanations when they take rebirth. But there can only be one throne holder. Who will be the one?

I think both Karmapas came back to Samsara with one goal, i.e. to spread Dharma and make sure the lineage is not broken. That is why they met up. If both are power or fame hunger, they would have claimed they are the legitimate one while the other is not. The CTA is not going to help to resolve this issue. If Tibetan community wants to move on, they cannot rely on CTA at all.

Tracy

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Re: Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2019, 08:46:11 AM »
I am really curious, after the 2 Karmapas met up, what was the outcome? What did they achieve? How come there is no announcement. I think many Karmapas are also very concerned. Who is the real Karmapa?

Perhaps both of them are the reincarnation of the 16th Karmapa. Like what the Dalai Lama mentioned before, it is possible for a high lama to have multiple emanations when they take rebirth. But there can only be one throne holder. Who will be the one?

I think both Karmapas came back to Samsara with one goal, i.e. to spread Dharma and make sure the lineage is not broken. That is why they met up. If both are power or fame hunger, they would have claimed they are the legitimate one while the other is not. The CTA is not going to help to resolve this issue. If Tibetan community wants to move on, they cannot rely on CTA at all.

I think not only you or the Kagyupas, everyone is very curious about the future of the Kagyu lineage. It was shocking news when the two Karmapas announced their meeting. Nobody was expecting that.

Their meeting also shows how unreliable CTA is because for many years, CTA did not try to help to reconcile the issue within the Karma Kagyu lineage. I think the main reason is because the CTA wants to use the Indian Karmapa to control the Tibetan community after the Dalai Lama is not around anymore.

The Indian Karmapa knew the dirty trick of the CTA, so he ran away and became the citizen of the Republic of Dominican. He had complained about being used and controlled by the CTA before. This is how CTA is making use of high lama for their personal interest. It is sad but this is what is happening.

Tenzin K

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Re: Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2019, 06:57:46 AM »
This is one of the most rejoiceful news. The two Karmapa meet together to understand each other better to work together to bring benefit to the people. I don't see the need to check out which is the real Karmapa. For me, both are equally attained as both have the same mind which is to work together to bring the positive from each individual join force to benefit their practitioners. They are not looking at their differences and personal preferences but focus on how to bring the betterment to their people which has split within the same lineage. Both of the Karmapa really practicing the Buddha's teaching on how to solve disharmony and schism. No matter how one tries to damage the true and authentic lineage, as long as they put what the learn from their lineage into practice with pure motivation, matters will be resolved.

Tracy

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Re: Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2019, 06:24:53 AM »
This is one of the most rejoiceful news. The two Karmapa meet together to understand each other better to work together to bring benefit to the people. I don't see the need to check out which is the real Karmapa. For me, both are equally attained as both have the same mind which is to work together to bring the positive from each individual join force to benefit their practitioners. They are not looking at their differences and personal preferences but focus on how to bring the betterment to their people which has split within the same lineage. Both of the Karmapa really practicing the Buddha's teaching on how to solve disharmony and schism. No matter how one tries to damage the true and authentic lineage, as long as they put what the learn from their lineage into practice with pure motivation, matters will be resolved.
The meeting turned out to be a good one, I would say. Lately, both Karmapas have jointly written a long life prayer for Sharmapa Rinpoche. Both have recognised that the son of the Karmapa Thaye Dorje is the reincarnation of Sharmapa Rinpoche. What a break through for the Karma Kagyu lineage and everyone should rejoice. It is wonderful to see one of the most important Buddhist tradition in Tibetan Buddhism is working to resolve their internal conflict on the basis of the continuity of the lineage. Both Karmapas are truly compassionate people, they don't care about the name but they want their lineage to continue to grow and to benefit more people.

dsnowlion

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Re: Both Karmapas met in private in France for several days.
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2019, 07:27:38 AM »
The two Karmapas are great beings I can see now. Both of them are trying to find a way to heal the wounds that the exile Tibetan government and sorry to say the Dalai Lama created. They are finding peace within, getting to know each other and trying to unite their people. That is how a real leader should behave and act. That is how a real high lama should behave and act. That is the kind of example and inspiration that great enlightened masters should show as an example for their people to learn and follow.

This is dharma and great masters worthy to take refuge in. I rejoice and praise both of these Karmapas for doing the right thing and bringing peace back into their community and lineage. Rejoice indeed. So, when will you do this Your Holiness the Dalai Lama with your great incarnate Guru His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche? If Your Holiness does this, it will be magnanimous for sure and your people will be once again united and happy. With that, there is more ways to preserve Tibet culture and Vajrayana Buddhism. I hope His Holiness people would read this and do what is right and good for everyone!