Author Topic: Did Nechung Oracle's translators lie about Dorje Shugden being an evil spirit?  (Read 3165 times)

Harold Musetescu

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I found this on Tsem Tulku's website. It is a discussion between Pastor Niral Patel and a man named Eric.

The question was the possibility that when the Nechung Oracle goes into trance the monks from Nechung Monastery are purposely giving false translations.

Pastor Patel states that these monks could be lying about what Dorje Drakden says through the Nechung Oracle.

The reasons could be that they were either pressured to lie or were bribed.

This now opens up the biggest question and that is, could the Nechung monks have lied about Dorje Shugden being an evil spirit?

Is it possible they were pressured or bribed into falsely stating that Dorje Shugden is a threat to the Dalai Lama's life and their return to Tibet.

Here is the link to Tsem Tulku's "Ask the Pastors" web page.

http://www.tsemrinpoche.com/ask-the-pastors

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Hello again Pastor Niral

When Dorje Shugden or a member of his retinue take trance of the Panglung Oracle what language do they speak?

When Dorje Shugden or a member of his retinue take trance of the Gameng (Ari) Oracle what language do they speak?

When the Nechung State Oracle is taken trance by Dorje Drakden he speaks in a "Twilight" language that only a handful of monks from his Nechung Monastery have been taught.

I don't think that either the Panglung or Gameng Oracles speak a "Twilight" language unknown to anyone on Earth.

Do the Panglung and Gameng Oracle reply in either the Tibetian or Mongolian language?

Would you like to comment on the Nechung's "Twilight" language?

How can we trust that the Nechung monks doing the translation of this unknown language are tell us the truth.

They could be subject to strong influences, pressures or even bribes into saying something totally false.

Thanks again for all you help and insights Pastor Niral.


Reply by Pastor Niral Patel

Dear Eric,

Your questions are thought provoking, as always. When Dorje Shugden or his retinue take trance of either the Panglung Oracle, the Gameng Oracle, or any other oracle for that matter, they speak in the language that the oracle speaks. For example, if the oracle himself speaks Tibetan, and as Dorje Shugden temporarily inhabits the body of the oracle, he uses the faculties of the oracle’s body to speak in Tibetan.

Similarly, if Dorje Shugden was to take trance in an oracle that spoke English, he would communicate with practitioners in English. And you are right in saying that neither the Panglung or Gameng Oracles speak in a “Twilight” language. In fact, they both speak in very clear Tibetan when in trance, as both oracles speak and communicate in Tibetan primarily.

Now, for Nechung, he does indeed speak in a “Twilight” language when in trance of his oracle. Therefore, his predictions and what he says requires ‘translation’ into ordinary language. This ‘translation’ is done by the oracle’s assistants who are said to have been trained in understanding this language. The strange thing is that it is not clear who actually teaches these assistants this “Twilight” language. On top of that since the ‘translation’ comes from ordinary monks, instead of through the oracle and therefore directly from Nechung himself, they can be swayed by outside influence. Therefore you are totally correct in deducing that they could indeed be pressured or bribed into ‘translating’ something entirely false. I hope this helps. Thank you.
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Since no one other than these Nechung monks know this "Twilight" language who can we really know the truth about what they are translating.

If they did in fact lie the 14th Dalai Lama would never have any way of knowing the truth.

He would have no reason to doubt what these monks told him.

The 14th Dalai Lama has no knowledge of this "Twilight" language nor in fact does anyone else in the world.

Could some one have pressured or bribed these monks into lying about Dorje Shugden being an evil spirit?

YES!

Harold Musetescu

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So are these Nechung  monks and the "Twilight" language the missing link to the saga of Dorje Shugden?

The Nechung Oracle may have been giving correct trances by Dorje Drakden but some Nechung monks could have been lying about what he was saying.

What do you and I know about this "Twilight" language?

Nothing!

How long has it been used to translate what supposedly Dorje Drakden is saying via the Nechung Oracle?

Are there any books or dictionaries for this "Twilight" language?

The new monks that become the new translators must use some books to learn this "Twilight" language.

These Nechung monks could bend to threats, pressures or bribes by very powerful members of the CTA or others.

Who choses these new monks to replace the old ones?

If there are corrupt Nechung monks then they would chose someone who would work with them and not against them.

They would continue to fill their ranks with new "Corrupt" monks in their "Pay for Play" con game.

But there is no way of proving anything because we are dealing with a mysteries "Twilight" language only know by a handful of Nechung monks.

Dorje Drakden could be saying through the Nechung Oracle that Dorje Shugden is in fact a Buddha.

The Nechung monks that translate could be saying the exact opposite and we and the world would never know.

Since the Nechung Oracle is unconscious during these trances he can only rely on these Nechung monks to tell him what Dorje Drakden said.

So we must know consider another possibility in why the Dalai Lama banned Dorje Shugden.

CORRUPT NECHUNG MONKS!