Author Topic: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater  (Read 4584 times)

Matibhadra

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The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« on: March 25, 2018, 05:18:00 AM »
While the evil dalie, assorted Nyingma fanboys,  and “rimey” zealots try to downplay Pabongkha Rinpoche's role within the Gelug tradition, here we have a pungent confession from a senior Nyingma lama, who refers to the findings of a senior Sakya-rimey lama, all of them of course Shugden-haters,  that no Gelugpa lama can be found who does not trace his lineage back to Pabongkha Rinpoche.

Here is what the Nyingma lama Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche says about the Sakya lama Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse's findings (http://all-otr.org/public-talks/8-the-grilling):

In fact, he [Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse] made a big effort to track down a root teacher from the Gelugpa school, but couldn’t find anyone without a connection to Phabongka Dechen Nyingpo. Actually he’s never stopped searching, but still can’t find one. It’s one of his greatest difficulties and regrets.

[...]

If he could only find a teacher from the Gelugpa tradition with no link to Phabongka Dechen Nyingpo, there are many teachings and transmissions he’d like to receive, for example the Guhyasamaja, Chakrasamvara and Yamantaka. But so far he hasn’t found anyone.


These passages are meaningful, because they show not only that there is no Gelugpa lineage without Pabongkha Rinpoche, but also the depth of the sectarian hatred coming from those who cannot stop bragging about their fake and hypocritical “non-sectarianism” -- itself just a propagandistic device serving their own sectarianist, witch-hunting, power-greedy agenda!

Rowntree

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2018, 07:45:38 AM »
Finally, the REAL intention is EXPOSED! So much talk on rimey and we know that ain't gonna happen! If Dzongsar Khyentse really does that, he would have been learning from a Gelug teacher, at least one, by now. Too bad it has to be exposed so bluntly for people to see clearly the hypocrisy lies within the rimey movement. The truth is, Dzongsar Khyentse's version of rimey only includes Sakya, Kagyu, Nyingma AND Bonpo. Yes, Bonpo is being held in a higher regard as compared to the Gelug. I don't know if you see this, this is a movement otherwise called "anti-gelug" movement. It started in the 19th century obviously one of the many reasons were because they were unhappy with Gelugpa being the ruler, but more so of course, the corrupted and lazy people working for the Gaden Phodrang.

In fact, Gelug is the one who practises rimey as Lama Tsongkhapa learned from all traditions before the establishment of the Gelug sect. He combined the teachings of all available sects of Tibetan Buddhism of his time, including Sakya, Ngyingma and Kagyu, and formed the Gelug school which its teachings encompass all Buddhist teachings available. Below is a sharing by the 14th Dalai Lama on the 5ft Dalai Lama and the vastness of his learning that included teachings from all schools.

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"Usually we consider him [the 5ft Dalai Lama] as a great Rimey. Everyone does except the Kagyupa. He received Nyingma teaching and Sakya teaching. From an early age, he was interested in the Nyingma tradition. After he studied at Drepung Monastery, then of course he grew more interested in the Gelug teachings. But then later in life he grew interested the Sakya teachings. Still later, at the end of his life, he was more interested in Nyingma and especially its Tantric Dzogchen teachings. One of the unique things about him was that he was a great scholar of the Nyingma, Sakya, and Gelug traditions. He wrote one verse, I think in the autobiography, where he says that even though he composed texts about the Gelug tradition, he did not enlist into the Gelug order, just as when he composed a work about a Nyingma text, he did not enlist in the Nyingma. He was very nonsectarian. It's also true he did not study the Kagyu tradition much and that his relations with the Kagyu and the king of Tsang were not very good."
Excerpt from The Story of Tibet: Conversations with the Dalai Lama by Thomas Laird.

dsnowlion

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2018, 08:52:31 AM »

In fact, he [Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse] made a big effort to track down a root teacher from the Gelugpa school, but couldn’t find anyone without a connection to Phabongka Dechen Nyingpo. Actually he’s never stopped searching, but still can’t find one. It’s one of his greatest difficulties and regrets.


Haha it just goes to show EVERY GELUG lama is connected to the great Je Pabonkha Rinpoche, which means, any Lama who rejects Pabongka, rejects the lineage, hence whatever he/she teaches becomes invalid and does not have any blessings and will not provide the practitioner with any spiritual attainments. Sorry, Your Holiness Dalai Lama, you can stop practising Dorje Shugden, but you cannot reject the greatest Gelugpa master of all time and not expect to reap the consequences of broken samaya with your Guru and subsequently all the lineage lamas.

Secondly I a agree with Rowntree on this...

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In fact, Gelug is the one who practises rimey as Lama Tsongkhapa learned from all traditions before the establishment of the Gelug sect. He combined the teachings of all available sects of Tibetan Buddhism of his time, including Sakya, Ngyingma and Kagyu, and formed the Gelug school which its teachings encompass all Buddhist teachings available. Below is a sharing by the 14th Dalai Lama on the 5ft Dalai Lama and the vastness of his learning that included teachings from all schools. 

Yes when you really really think about it, the Gelug school of Vajrayana Buddhism would be the most complete one. In essence it is the best teachings from all schools combined into one. Hence, you really do not need any other.



Matibhadra

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2018, 06:16:49 PM »
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The truth is, Dzongsar Khyentse's version of rimey only includes Sakya, Kagyu, Nyingma AND Bonpo.

Actually, everything except for Gelug is what rimeypas in general, not only Dzongsar Khyentse, call “rimey”. Rimey, in essence, is just an anti-Gelugpa political front.

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Yes, Bonpo is being held in a higher regard as compared to the Gelug.

Right. Actually Bön is held by Nyingmapas in higher regard than Buddhism in general, so much so that Nyingmapas adopted as their central and all-pervading tenet the Bönpo (and Ch'an) ridiculous, non-Buddhist idea, that one needs to awaken to the “fact” the one is already awaken...

According to them, everybody is already “awaken”, only the stupid cannot see this, as the stupid cannot see the new clothes of the king. And, in order to “see” this wondrous bullshit, one needs an “introduction to the nature of mind” through a dzogchen “guru”, who will teach how to miraculously see the clothes of the king all the while raping their female disciples and taking the money of their male disciples in the process!

Besides, so-called rimeypas, specially those of Nyingma affiliation, hold their fictitious, terma-invented “Padmasambhava” as higher than the Buddha, more omniscient than the omniscient, although they lack the guts and the honesty to call themselves “Padmasambhavists” rather than “Buddhists”.

It is a well known fact that many Nyingma termas are just copies of Bön termas, and that Nyingma tertöns (terma discoverers) were Bön tertöns as well. Nyingma and Bön go hand in hand, except that the Bönpo are more honest and don't pretend to be Buddhist.

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I don't know if you see this, this is a movement otherwise called "anti-gelug" movement.

This is what I see as well. The king has no clothes, and on top of it is an idiot.

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It started in the 19th century

Actually the roots of the “rimey” anti-Gelug movement can already be seen in the 17th century, when the evil butcher, the 5th dalie lame, colluded with Nyingmas in order to ensure their support to his megalomaniac power-grab over the whole of Tibet, thereby polluting the pure Gelug teachings with obnoxious Nyingma tenets and practices, whence his spitefulness and hatred against Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen, who upheld the pure teachings of Je Tsongkhapa, and was therefore murdered by the aforementioned ganster, with the help of his Nyingmapa accomplices, thus creating the conditions for the arisal of the protector of Je Tsongkhapa's doctrine, Dorje Shugden.

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obviously one of the many reasons were because they were unhappy with Gelugpa being the ruler, but more so of course, the corrupted and lazy people working for the Gaden Phodrang.

Nyingmapas were not at all unhappy with the rule of the Tibetan traitor and British puppet the 13th evil dalie and his lazy, corrupted Ganden Phodrang, as they together followed the same power-grabbing Nyingma-Gelug colluding schema already previously enforced by the evil 5th dalie, and later adopted by the current 14th evil dalie.

What Nyingmapas were unhappy about was the successful incursions by the great and glorious Pabongkha Rinpoche into their territories, attracting with his powerful Dharma discourses thousands of Tibetans thirsty for the pure Buddha's teachings, and fed up with Nyingma debased mystification and trickery.

What is more, Nyingmapas were very unhappy with the military actions of a Pabongkha Rinpoche's student, the powerful and patriotic Chinese warlord Liu Wenhui, who uprooted the opium traffic in Nyingma-controlled areas throughout Eastern Tibet, or Kham, thus depriving Nyingmapa drug dealers of their ill-gotten income.

Therefore, whenever one reads the story that “Pabongkha Rinpoche or his students destroyed Nyingma monasteries”, one can confidently translate it as “Pabongkha Rinpoche's student Liu Wenhui destroyed opium entrepôts controlled by Nyingmapa drug dealers”. And this they, the Nyingmapa drug dealers, cannot forgive.

And, since the opium traffic from India to China through Eastern Tibet was controlled by the Bombay-based China-hating Jewish-British clan of the Sassoon-Rothschild, it requires no effort to understand why down to our days the Nyingmapas and “rimeypas” are favored by Western-Jewish China-hating big financiers, as exemplified by the Soros-owned Shugden-hating Tsadra Foundation with its cohort of salaried Shugden-hating Nyingmapa e rimeypa “lamas”, such as Ringu “tulku”, Dzongsar Khyentse himself, and so forth (see fo instance http://conference-wp.tsadra.org/2017-conference/2017-speakers/).

Matibhadra

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2018, 07:15:58 PM »
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Below is a sharing by the 14th Dalai Lama on the 5ft Dalai Lama and the vastness of his learning that included teachings from all schools.

Actually the quote shows exactly the opposite: that the evil 5th dalie knew very little about the Kagyu system, that he did not include teachings of the Kagyupa in his learning, and that this exclusion was purely out of political hatred, because of his jealousy of the competing Kagyupa rulers of Tsang.

But what the evil 14th dalie does not say is that his predecessor and role model, the evil 5th dalie, murdered over 7000 Kagyupa abbots and monks, and forcibly converted more thousands of them, while robbing and appropriating their monasteries.

What a contrast between such a murderous crackpot and Je Tsongkhapa, who did not kill and did not rob and  did not forcibly convert anyone; who stayed for a long period in Drikung Kagyu monasteries and thoroughly studied their doctrines, including the Mahamudra; who held in high esteem the Kagyupa Marpa's Guhyasamaja lineage, and the Kagyupa Gampopa's Lamrim lineage; who was highly devoted to his Kagyupa guru Lama Umapa, through whom he could speak to Manjushri and solve his doubts, and through devotion to whom he could eventually speak directly to Manjushri! How much we Gelugpas owe to Kagyupas!

What a contrast between a pure and truly non-sectarian teacher such as Je Tsogkhapa, and murderous crackpots and debased politicians such as the obnoxious 5th and 14th dalie lames together with their Nyingmapa and “rimeypa” assorted drug-dealing, slave-owning, power-hungry accomplices!

Since in such crackpots there is not even the smell of the pure Gelugpa lineage, no one is bound to them by tantric samaya. At most one may be bound to them by a highly afflicted, mafioso-Yakuza-like debased oath, which must necessarily be broken if one wants ever to become a Buddhist.

Tracy

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2019, 08:16:40 AM »
Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse is right that almost most of the high lamas in Gelug lineage are connected to Pabongka Rinpoche. If they are not the direct disciple of Pabongka Rinpoche, they are the students of the students of Pabongka Rinpoche.

If practising Dorje Shugden will stain or pollute the lineage, then the gelug lineage is basically not valid now because somehow all the practices are passed down by Pabongka Rinpoche.

The famous Lamrim discourse, "Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand" used by many practitioners in the world was a teaching by Pabongka Rinpoche. It is also used in the monastery. If Pabongka Rinpoche's teaching is polluted, can we still follow Gelug lamas?

dsnowlion

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2019, 08:37:17 AM »
Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse is right that almost most of the high lamas in Gelug lineage are connected to Pabongka Rinpoche. If they are not the direct disciple of Pabongka Rinpoche, they are the students of the students of Pabongka Rinpoche.

If practising Dorje Shugden will stain or pollute the lineage, then the gelug lineage is basically not valid now because somehow all the practices are passed down by Pabongka Rinpoche.

The famous Lamrim discourse, "Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand" used by many practitioners in the world was a teaching by Pabongka Rinpoche. It is also used in the monastery. If Pabongka Rinpoche's teaching is polluted, can we still follow Gelug lamas?

That's true what you say Tracy. Then if this is the case, His Holiness the Dalai Lama is also polluted and we should not follow His Holiness. We should not receive any teachings from him also since he received 90% of his teachings from both tutors who are Dorje Shugden practitioners - Kyabje Ling Rinpoche and Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang

Basically HH the Dalai Lama's teachings and practices are all a huge sham. He should stop teaching altogether and just retire?

Tenzin K

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2019, 06:01:30 AM »
So if anyone says that Pabongkha Rinpoche is wrong for his practices that's mean the entire Gelug is wrong which includes the Dalai Lama. But often we see people tend to play their way out to give excuses and exceptional of what is right and what is wrong. Even Dalai Lama can be exceptional of receiving teaching and initiation from a Shugden Lama and his Shugden Lama is wrong but Dalai Lama is right. How could this make sense? Even this point is already good to debate and further discovered by "Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse is right that almost most of the high lamas in Gelug lineage are connected to Pabongka Rinpoche. If they are not the direct disciple of Pabongka Rinpoche, they are the students of the students of Pabongka Rinpoche."

What is there so important to argue about Pabongkha Rinpoche is wrong where he had produced so many erudite masters? If all the Gelug lineage lamas are connected to Pabongkha Rinpoche then it's good enough to see and learn the positive side and attainment from the great lamas under him because to search for the negative side will not bring us to any attainment.

Drolma

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2019, 06:58:38 AM »
So if anyone says that Pabongkha Rinpoche is wrong for his practices that's mean the entire Gelug is wrong which includes the Dalai Lama. But often we see people tend to play their way out to give excuses and exceptional of what is right and what is wrong. Even Dalai Lama can be exceptional of receiving teaching and initiation from a Shugden Lama and his Shugden Lama is wrong but Dalai Lama is right. How could this make sense? Even this point is already good to debate and further discovered by "Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse is right that almost most of the high lamas in Gelug lineage are connected to Pabongka Rinpoche. If they are not the direct disciple of Pabongka Rinpoche, they are the students of the students of Pabongka Rinpoche."

What is there so important to argue about Pabongkha Rinpoche is wrong where he had produced so many erudite masters? If all the Gelug lineage lamas are connected to Pabongkha Rinpoche then it's good enough to see and learn the positive side and attainment from the great lamas under him because to search for the negative side will not bring us to any attainment.

The reasons given by the CTA to ban and invalidate Dorje Shugden are ridiculous. They said Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit therefore things from Dorje Shugden followers are polluted and impure. If that is the case, many Gelug teachings are not valid anymore. Why? Because many Gelug lamas, DS or non-DS lamas got their teachings from Pabongka Rinpoche or students of Pabongka Rinpoche.

The Dalai Lama is not consistent on Dorje Shugden issue. On one hand, he said no one should practice Dorje Shugden but he said it is ok for Trijang Rinpoche to practice it. How come? Why is there an exception?

If by practising Dorje Shugden will cause the the practitioner take rebirth in the three lower realms, how come all the DS lamas take rebirth in a human form again? How come the Dalai Lama recognise their incarnation? Is the Dalai Lama telling lie when he said if we practice Dorje Shugden we will take rebirth in the three lower realms?

dsnowlion

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2019, 08:55:38 AM »
The Dalai Lama is not consistent on Dorje Shugden issue. On one hand, he said no one should practice Dorje Shugden but he said it is ok for Trijang Rinpoche to practice it. How come? Why is there an exception?

If by practising Dorje Shugden will cause the the practitioner take rebirth in the three lower realms, how come all the DS lamas take rebirth in a human form again? How come the Dalai Lama recognise their incarnation? Is the Dalai Lama telling lie when he said if we practice Dorje Shugden we will take rebirth in the three lower realms?


Yup that I agree - the Dalai Lama is not consistent and has been changing his tune. Look if Dorje Shugden can really harm him, he will not be 84 and still going strong spreading his teachings and messages since Dorje Shugden is still be practised and there are many monasteries all around the world doing Shugden!

On top of that the Dalai Lama is getting creative and now using live teleconferencing and video messages to places he is not able to visit personally. The Dalai Lama may be physically slowing down and cutting back on travelling but he is still going strong teaching and reaching out to many people.

The Dalai Lama on the first day of the teaching repeatedly stressed on the importance of compassion which he said is a prerequisite in the modern world as all humans are, at the core, social animals who are heavily dependent on one another from birth to death despite secondary differences such as religious preferences, race and nationalities. My question is - Is this applicable to Shugden practitioners since we are talking about no religious preferences, right?
 
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Dalai Lama begins three-day teaching on the behest of Taiwanese devotees

DHARAMSHALA, Nov. 3: A three-day teaching on Nagarjuna’s the Precious Garland of the Middle Way (uma rinchen trengwa) by the foremost Tibetan Buddhist leader His Holiness the Dalai lama began on Thursday here at the Thekchen Choling Tsuglakhang temple. The teaching was organized by The International Association of Tibetan Buddhist Dharma, Taiwan.

The Precious Garland of the Middle Way is a commentary written by Indian master Nagarjuna in his composition, Collection of Advices. His Holiness the Dalai Lama had received the same teaching from Serkhong Tsenshab Rinpoche.

Addressing the congregation, the Tibetan leader surmised, “We are gathered here essentially to transform ourselves through the teachings of the Buddha. The teachings of Buddha and particularly the Nalanda school of Buddhism emphasises on inner workings of the human psyche and emotions through analysis and logic to remedy that which destroys our inner peace.”

The Dalai Lama on the first day of the teaching repeatedly stressed on the importance of compassion which he said is a prerequisite in the modern world as all humans are, at the core, social animals who are heavily dependent on one another from birth to death despite secondary differences such as religious preferences, race and nationalities.

The octogenarian Tibetan leader who is 84 years old has cut back on his schedules overseas citing age-related difficulties but has been active reaching out to his devotees and followers through live teleconferencing and video messages to places he is not able to visit personally.

Over 7500 followers and devotees from 61 different countries, primarily from Taiwan were present at the teaching today which was also live streamed across the world. The translations for the teachings were simultaneously available in Chinese, English, Hindi, German, Japanese, Vietnamese, Korean, Spanish and Russia. The teaching will conclude on October 5, 2019.

Source: http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41817&article=Dalai+Lama+begins+three-day+teaching+on+the+behest+of+Taiwanese+devotees

Tenzin K

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2019, 04:54:23 AM »
Dalai Lama always preaches on compassion and have a dialogue to resolve issues. On the Shugden issue, there is nothing like what he preaches. Why compassion only applicable as where and when Dalai Lama wants and it’s not a standard formula to gain peace and harmony?

It would be good for Dalai Lama to walk the talk to convince the people on what he says is applicable. People will see a double standard or rather hypocrite on Dalai Lama at one hand he keeps talking about being compassionate and resolves the issue through an open discussion but everyone knows about Dalai Lama imposed a ban on Shugden and why not Dalai Lama uses what he preaches to resolve this issue instead of imposing separation and discrimination which created so much of suffering especially among the Tibetans?

The situation of Shugden ban is really bad and only weakens the Tibetan in India. There is no benefit in any way to help Tibetan to achieve anything but only spilitng Tibetan and make them lose faith.


The Dalai Lama is not consistent on Dorje Shugden issue. On one hand, he said no one should practice Dorje Shugden but he said it is ok for Trijang Rinpoche to practice it. How come? Why is there an exception?

If by practising Dorje Shugden will cause the the practitioner take rebirth in the three lower realms, how come all the DS lamas take rebirth in a human form again? How come the Dalai Lama recognise their incarnation? Is the Dalai Lama telling lie when he said if we practice Dorje Shugden we will take rebirth in the three lower realms?


Yup that I agree - the Dalai Lama is not consistent and has been changing his tune. Look if Dorje Shugden can really harm him, he will not be 84 and still going strong spreading his teachings and messages since Dorje Shugden is still be practised and there are many monasteries all around the world doing Shugden!

On top of that the Dalai Lama is getting creative and now using live teleconferencing and video messages to places he is not able to visit personally. The Dalai Lama may be physically slowing down and cutting back on travelling but he is still going strong teaching and reaching out to many people.

The Dalai Lama on the first day of the teaching repeatedly stressed on the importance of compassion which he said is a prerequisite in the modern world as all humans are, at the core, social animals who are heavily dependent on one another from birth to death despite secondary differences such as religious preferences, race and nationalities. My question is - Is this applicable to Shugden practitioners since we are talking about no religious preferences, right?
 
Quote
Dalai Lama begins three-day teaching on the behest of Taiwanese devotees

DHARAMSHALA, Nov. 3: A three-day teaching on Nagarjuna’s the Precious Garland of the Middle Way (uma rinchen trengwa) by the foremost Tibetan Buddhist leader His Holiness the Dalai lama began on Thursday here at the Thekchen Choling Tsuglakhang temple. The teaching was organized by The International Association of Tibetan Buddhist Dharma, Taiwan.

The Precious Garland of the Middle Way is a commentary written by Indian master Nagarjuna in his composition, Collection of Advices. His Holiness the Dalai Lama had received the same teaching from Serkhong Tsenshab Rinpoche.

Addressing the congregation, the Tibetan leader surmised, “We are gathered here essentially to transform ourselves through the teachings of the Buddha. The teachings of Buddha and particularly the Nalanda school of Buddhism emphasises on inner workings of the human psyche and emotions through analysis and logic to remedy that which destroys our inner peace.”

The Dalai Lama on the first day of the teaching repeatedly stressed on the importance of compassion which he said is a prerequisite in the modern world as all humans are, at the core, social animals who are heavily dependent on one another from birth to death despite secondary differences such as religious preferences, race and nationalities.

The octogenarian Tibetan leader who is 84 years old has cut back on his schedules overseas citing age-related difficulties but has been active reaching out to his devotees and followers through live teleconferencing and video messages to places he is not able to visit personally.

Over 7500 followers and devotees from 61 different countries, primarily from Taiwan were present at the teaching today which was also live streamed across the world. The translations for the teachings were simultaneously available in Chinese, English, Hindi, German, Japanese, Vietnamese, Korean, Spanish and Russia. The teaching will conclude on October 5, 2019.

Source: http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41817&article=Dalai+Lama+begins+three-day+teaching+on+the+behest+of+Taiwanese+devotees


Ngawang

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2019, 07:24:33 AM »
So if anyone says that Pabongkha Rinpoche is wrong for his practices that's mean the entire Gelug is wrong which includes the Dalai Lama. But often we see people tend to play their way out to give excuses and exceptional of what is right and what is wrong. Even Dalai Lama can be exceptional of receiving teaching and initiation from a Shugden Lama and his Shugden Lama is wrong but Dalai Lama is right. How could this make sense? Even this point is already good to debate and further discovered by "Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse is right that almost most of the high lamas in Gelug lineage are connected to Pabongka Rinpoche. If they are not the direct disciple of Pabongka Rinpoche, they are the students of the students of Pabongka Rinpoche."

What is there so important to argue about Pabongkha Rinpoche is wrong where he had produced so many erudite masters? If all the Gelug lineage lamas are connected to Pabongkha Rinpoche then it's good enough to see and learn the positive side and attainment from the great lamas under him because to search for the negative side will not bring us to any attainment.

The reasons given by the CTA to ban and invalidate Dorje Shugden are ridiculous. They said Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit therefore things from Dorje Shugden followers are polluted and impure. If that is the case, many Gelug teachings are not valid anymore. Why? Because many Gelug lamas, DS or non-DS lamas got their teachings from Pabongka Rinpoche or students of Pabongka Rinpoche.

The Dalai Lama is not consistent on Dorje Shugden issue. On one hand, he said no one should practice Dorje Shugden but he said it is ok for Trijang Rinpoche to practice it. How come? Why is there an exception?

If by practising Dorje Shugden will cause the the practitioner take rebirth in the three lower realms, how come all the DS lamas take rebirth in a human form again? How come the Dalai Lama recognise their incarnation? Is the Dalai Lama telling lie when he said if we practice Dorje Shugden we will take rebirth in the three lower realms?

This is the part where His Holiness the Dalai Lama's action is not logical. If Dorje Shugden is really that bad and harmful to the practitioner, why did he allowed Kyabje Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche the permission to practice him? Does the Dalai Lama not worried about the well being of Kyabje Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche and his followers?

Is he okay with all the followers of Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche to be a demon worshipper? That makes no sense. Hence, Dorje Shugden practice might not be what the CTA claims.

Drolma

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2019, 08:09:33 AM »
The whole Dorje Shugden ban very obvious, is to cover the failure of the CTA in getting the Tibetans back to Tibet. Not only did they fail to bring the Tibetans back to Tibet, they also failed to give an identity to the Tibetans in exile. Until today, after 60 years of struggling, the Tibetans are still refugees.

How much longer does the CTA want the Tibetans to be stateless? Haven't the CTA made enough money from the Tibetan plight? Tibetans are being used to achieve the CTA's selfish agenda, to make more money for themselves. The Tibetans in Tibet have progressed so much, they have a better life compared to the Tibetans abroad. Why? The CTA is not interested to bring progress to the Tibetans because the more exposed the people are, the more people will know about their tricks and they will lose their power.

dsnowlion

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2019, 08:56:35 AM »
The way the CTA is going about in approaching China regarding Tibet's issues using the Middle Way Approach, it is doomed to be another epic failure. And Sangay is encouraging more Tibet activist activities around the world as if that is going to make China happier and listen to their whims and demands? How sad to know the CTA has still not wised up on how to deal with China? Perhaps, they should really consult and look at the Shugden lamas who obviously have found a way to be in and out of Tibet's China with no problems.

A pro-democracy China activist from Sydney Chin Jin is bound to be banned by China if not already. He said that the conference brings the people of Tibet, Hong Kong, Taiwan, East Turkistan, and Inner Mongolia (all subjugated by China) together to become a force to fight the communist China.

He also said “The United States has the biggest responsibility to fight the communist China, as it was because of them that Mao Zedong was able to establish the People’s Republic of China. They now have to rectify the policy to change China into a democratic country.” No wonder he is in Australia, he would never be seen again if he was in China saying all this.


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Global Tibet supporters meet for action on Tibet

The Middle-Way Approach and the issue of the Dalai Lama’s reincarnation remained the focus of the 8th International Tibet Support Groups (TSG) Conference, held in McLeod Ganj, the capital of the Tibetans-in-exile.

As many as 180 supporters of the Tibetan cause from different backgrounds such as politicians, intellectuals, and activists, from 42 countries have gathered for the three-day conference that opened on Sunday on the premises of the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA).

They met Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama on Monday morning.

Puma Jungney, Speaker of the Tibetan Parliament-in-exile, who was the chief guest, said that Tibetans have opted for autonomy through the policy called Middle-Way Approach, rather than independence, even though Tibet was an independent country before the illegal Chinese occupation in 1959.

Jungney stated that the Middle-Way Approach has been the political stand of the CTA since the early 1970s, and is the most sensible step in solving the conflicts of Tibet and China. He appealed to the participants to support this policy.

“This is a mutually-beneficial step in solving the Tibet-China issue.”

CTA President Lobsang Sangay spoke on reviving the spirit of activism of the 1990s to organise more activities around the world to resolve the Tibetan issue. He also spoke on the reincarnation of the current 14th Dalai Lama, who is now 84.

Sangay rejected the Chinese “Order no 5” as illegal interference in finding the reincarnation of Tibetan lamas, saying, “The reincarnation system was invented by Tibetans, and Tibetans own it.”

Vijay Kranti, a Tibetologits based in Delhi, speaking to Tibet Sun said, “I attended the first TSG conference in 1990. I have seen that the awareness and commitment by these groups for Tibet is improving, which shows there is hope for the future of Tibet.”

“These groups are going to give the response to China’s bullying designs, which is often missing from different governments.”

Chin Jin, a pro-democracy China activist from Sydney, Australia, said that the conference brings the people of Tibet, Hong Kong, Taiwan, East Turkistan, and Inner Mongolia (all subjugated by China) together to become a force to fight the communist China.

“The United States has the biggest responsibility to fight the communist China, as it was because of them that Mao Zedong was able to establish the People’s Republic of China. They now have to rectify the policy to change China into a democratic country.”

The first TSG conference was held in 1990 in Dharamshala. It was organised to bring more awareness about the issue of Tibet to a broader platform for bigger support from the international community. Today, there are more than 250 Tibet Support Groups around the world, actively working towards resolving the issue of Tibet.

The 8th TSG conference was convened by the Core Group for the Tibetan Cause, India, under the facilitation of the Department of Information and International Relations, CTA. Rinchen Khando Khrimey, the National Convenor of Core Group for Tibetan Cause, India, made the opening speech. He expressed full support for the Middle-Way Approach, and for reopening of talks between the envoys of the Dalai Lama and the Chinese government.

Source: https://www.tibetsun.com/news/2019/11/04/global-tibet-supporters-meet-for-action-on-tibet

Ngawang

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Re: The funny confession of a Shugden-hater
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2019, 02:29:13 PM »
This is an evidence that proves Dorje Shugden practice is not a demon practice because it is not logical for all the highly attained lamas. For the past few decades, there is not one Gelupa lama who is actively giving teachings are not disciples of the renowned Dorje Shugden lama, Pabongkha Rinpoche. If Dorje Shugden practice is a demon practice, then the whole Gelugpa lineage will be a demon lineage already. That does not make sense at all.