Author Topic: The dharmapala "Methar"  (Read 9242 times)

Harold Musetescu

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The dharmapala "Methar"
« on: December 08, 2016, 08:20:54 PM »
Is there a formal practice for the dharmapala "Methar". He is found under Dorje Shugden in the retinue of Kache Marpo. Tsem Tulku has do an article on him which you can read about his website.

Harold Musetescu

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2016, 12:56:57 AM »
There is also another "Methar" related article on Tsem Tulku's website. You have to go to page 2 and look under the article starting with the title "The Spirit Nyatrul".

It is sad that in Tsem Tulku's article he "forgot" to thank the "Tengyeling Oracle" for so much of the information he provided him about "Methar". We did notice that he thanked his staff for their work but not the Tengyeling Oracle who brought Methar, Nyari Tulku, Demo Tulku and Tengyeling Monastery to his  and the world's attention.

If you go to the comments section in the article on "The spirit Nyatrul" please read ALL the comments addressed under Harold Musetescu. If you scroll to the very bottom you will see Pastor Elena asking me and the Tengyeling Oracle to write the story about Methar.

I through the Tengyeling Oracle provided Tsem Tulku with the "Peaceful" mantra for Methar (Om Methar sarva siddhi hung". You can read it in the Methar article. The "Wrathful" mantra is "Om Methar  shatroo maraya phet". The Tengyeling Oracle provided the "Wrathful" visualization of Methar to Tsem Tulku. This is Methar skinned alive from the neck down with a spear and a mala of human skulls. Tsem Tulku's staff provided thangka reproductions of both the peaceful and wrathful forms of Methar. You will not find this "wrathful" description of Methar in an Tibetan book, it came from the Oracle.

It was the Tengyeling Oracle that told Tsem Tulku that Methar carried a mala of "Human Skulls". There was no previous documentation of this skull mala in an other Tibetan literature.

I should tell you that the Tengyeling Oracle "Channels" Methar. He does not take "Trance" as most Oracles do. Tsem Tulku talks about the difference in his youtube video titles "Taking Trances". The Oracle also channels Kache Marpo and Namkar Barzin.

It was the Tengyeling Oracle who "first" told Tsem Tulku and the world that H.H. Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku and Methar were all innocent and were falsely convicted and murdered for crimes they did not commit. All the published Tibet books about Demo Tulku stated that he and Nyari Tulku were evil men who attempted to MURDER the 13th Dalai Lama. Now Tsem Tulku believes what the Tengyeling Oracle has be stating publicly for years. It was the Tengyeling Oracle and only the Tengyeling Oracle to was telling the world the truth. A truth that Tsem Tulku not only believes but he his now telling the world. It is Tsem Tulku who publicly stated what the peaceful mantra of Methar is. It was Tsem Tulku who publicly stated what the wrathful visualization of Methar is. Were did he get all this information  from??? THE TENGYELING ORACLE!!!!!

It was the Tengyeling Oracle who stated publicly the real reason why Methar was skinned alive by the Tibetan government's troops. It was the Tengyeling Oracle who stated to the world the guru devotion, dharmapala devotion and Oracle devotion Methar had to Demo Tulku, Kache Marpo and the Tengyeling Oracle. No one else every spoke these words to the world.

It was the Tengyeling Oracle who in a private email to Tsem Tulku told him why Serkong Tulku believed that Nyari Tulku was an innocent man. He told Tsem Rinpoche that Serkong realized that Nyari Tulku (Nyatrul) could have blinded him in one eye with the ember from fire but chose only to burn his nose to stop the fire puja.

Nyari Tulku first tried to stop the fire puja by causing it to rain. When that failed he burned Serkong Rinpoche's nose with a burning ember that stopped the fire puja. Had Nyatrul wanted to he could have directed the burning ember into on of the eyes of Serkong Rinpoche blinding him for life. He chose not to to show Serkong he was not a violent evil man.

So now you can see how important the Tengyeling Oracle has been in exposing the truth about Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku and Methar. It was the Oracle who for years has fought a lonely battle to bring to the world Dorje Shugden's dharmapala "Methar". Methar who was forgotten by the world and it was only through this Oracle that we can now have Methar as our new dharma protector.

The Tengyeling Oracle is an old man and his health is not well. His doctor has him on medication and told him that he is at "High Risk" of either a heart attack or a stroke.

It is truly sad that His Eminence Tsem Tulku would turn his back to this great Oracle. In his telling of the stories of Methar, Nyari Tulku and His Holiness Demo Tulku he is in fact telling the story given to him by the Tengyeling Oracle.

Would have a few simple words of thanks been to much Tsem?

The world needs to know about the "Tengyeling Oracle" so that he is not forgotten as Methar, Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku and Tengyeling Monastery were once forgotten. It is through the singular efforts of the Tengyeling Oracle that they now will never be forgotten.


vajratruth

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2016, 08:36:24 AM »
Dear Harold,

Methar is indeed a very good story. I went to Tsem Tulku's blog to read and it was well set out and a lot of details.

But you seem to have a bone to pick with TT. Are you the Tengyeling Oracle or how are you related to the oracle? You seem to infer that you know him personally. I have not heard of this oracle although that does not mean he does not exist.

It is strange that you keep going on about TT not thanking this oracle and somehow I don't think an oracle of a great being would so fussed about receiving credit for information. This is especially so if the information supposedly benefits many people. Isn't merit from spreading the knowledge of this great being more important than petty acknowledgement/credit that you seem to be demanding?

I am also wondering why, if you know so much about the Tengyeling Oracle, that you have not done anything about it, not told anyone about it and not write anything to spread any teachings from its lineage? Why wait till TT wrote something and then insist that the Tangyeling Oracle/you(?) should be credited? Did the Tengyeling ask you to do this?

Sorry if I sound rude and I mean no disrespect but I do find it strange that you seem to want credit for a Dharma material. I have seen the Duldzin take trace and teach with great wisdom but  never demanded to be credited.

Perhaps this is not the right profile to discredit a noble DS lama? Just my thoughts.

thaimonk

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2016, 08:53:09 AM »
@Harold Musetescu,

I have many friends in the Serpom Monasteries who are monks and senior. No one has ever heard of a Tengye Ling or Methar oracle or channeler of this deity. They even have friends in Canada that are older Tibetans and monks and they said no such oracle exists and if there is one, he is dead. So prove there is this oracle before you make allegations. What does he look like, where does he live, when does he take trance? If you have no proof such an oracle exists and it's just your word, sorry, but I don't believe you.

tibetanindelhi

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2016, 09:32:43 AM »
In the Tibetan tradition there is no big issues on copyright. Genuine teachers and oracles do not care if you give them credit or not. They are just  happy their information is benefit others. Further, the so called Tengye ling oracle never ask for credit. You are asking for credit and the information didn't arise from you. You don't get credit as the information didn't come from you as source. If a thousands persons listen to oracle words in the audience and tell a thousand other persons, you don't need to give credit to one thousands persons for sharing the information from the oracle.

If the Tengyleling oracle really want credit, let him ask for it himself with correct proof he is what he is. No Tibtan heard of him. He does not exist.

Long Live Trijang Chogtril Rinpoche!
Long Live Dhagom Chogtril Rinpoche

tibetanindelhi

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2016, 09:43:08 AM »
I wouldn't never give credit/copyright creidt to you because you have no proof your information came from an oracle that you cannot proof. Because you have no proof your oracle is real, then to quote or give credit from him is dangerous. It will look like it is made up. Why give credit to a oracle there is no proof it exist? People will say it was made up and the oracle is a lie.

 You cannot proof Kyabje Tsem Rinpoche got his informaton on Methar from you or only from you. He has access to may Tibetan texts, lamas, Geshes and monks in the Tibetan communities around the world and in Tibet. Even if he got information from you, he gave information on Methar and it help others and that is good enough.

Harold Musetescu

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2016, 10:54:02 AM »
You may claim that neither you or some monks you know has never heard of the Tengyeling Oracle. So what, Tsem Tulku and his pastors have heard of him. Tsem Tulku has quoted extensively from the Tengyeling Oracle proclamations. In the comment sections on the article on Nyatrul many of Tsem Tulku's "Pastors" wrote questions to me asking about my teacher the Tengyeling Oracle. Numerous readers also asked questions about the Oracle and his bona fides.

It is in fact the tradition in Tibet to properly quote the "source" of your teachings. Your Lama would always say that these teachings came from this Lama on this date at this place on this date. If Tsem Tulku had received all this information from say the Panglung Kuten we all know he would have told the world that it came from the Panglung Kuten. He would not have claimed it came from his "staff" as he did about his "Methar" article.

If you go to the main or home page on this website and scroll down to the section that allows comments from the general public you will see that I have written about the Tengyeling Oracle and his proclamations for years. 

Whether you believe the Tengyeling Oracle is real or not is not the issue here. His Eminence Tsem Tulku believes he is real. His Eminence Tsem Tulku has "quoted" from his proclamations.

If Tsem Tulku thinks the Tengyeling Oracle is false then why does he publicly teach the "Oracle's" peaceful mantra of Methar? Why does he publicly teach the "Oracle's" wrathful visualization of Methar? Why has he created a thangka of the "Oracle's" wrathful visualization of Methar. These are not the actions one would do if you though the Tengyeling Oracle was a fake.

There is no question that in fact Tsem Tulku knows the Tengyeling Oracle is a true Oracle. He does and the proof is in his publishing and teaching to this students and the world the proclamations of this Oracle.

If you are quoting from a source, if you are teaching from a source which is other than yourself then you MUST NAME THE SOURCE.

Tsem Tulku thanked his "staff" for all their work on the Methar article.

How about thanking the "Tengyeling Oracle" for all his work on "your" Methar article.


tibetanindelhi

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2016, 01:01:38 PM »
Prove it that Kyabje Tsem Rinpoche used the non existent Tengye Ling's proclamations for all this and if he did, so what? You want rupees? 

Prove it that this oracle even exists before we go further. If this oracle cannot be proven to exist, then it's all just a waste of time.  :o

tibetanindelhi

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2016, 01:02:54 PM »

Dear Thaimonk, Very good issues you point us for peolpe. Thank you.

 :)

@Harold Musetescu,

I have many friends in the Serpom Monasteries who are monks and senior. No one has ever heard of a Tengye Ling or Methar oracle or channeler of this deity. They even have friends in Canada that are older Tibetans and monks and they said no such oracle exists and if there is one, he is dead. So prove there is this oracle before you make allegations. What does he look like, where does he live, when does he take trance? If you have no proof such an oracle exists and it's just your word, sorry, but I don't believe you.

Harold Musetescu

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2016, 05:11:51 PM »
For any of the readers who want to check out the Tengyeling Oracle here something I encourage all of you to do. Please contact Pastor Elena Khong Jean Ai who is the "Director of Tsem Tulku's Ladrang". She is the head of his "Private Office" and you can contact her at [email protected].

Pastor Elena was the author of the story titled "The Spirit Nyatrul" and if you scroll down to the very last comment you will see what she wrote to me.

"Hi Harold.....It has been brought to Rinpoche's attention you know some things about Tengyeling and Methar.....It seems like you have a lot of information. Would you like to help us get a blog post up about Tengyeling, Methar and what happened in you own words and we will be glad to publish it.....".

To "tibetanindelhi and Thaimonk". You may question the existence of the "Tengyeling Oracle" but many of the things that Tsem Tulku publicly teaches about "Methar" come from the Tengyeling Oracle. Whether you or any one else does question his existence is irrelevant. Tsem Tulku does.

A warning to "tibetanindelhi" about you statement about the Tengyeling Oracle. ".....if he does, so what? You wants some rupees.....". When you insult an "Oracle" you are insulting the dharmapalas who speak through him. You have insulted not only the Tengyeling Oracle but also Methar. I hope you pray to Methar to forgive you for insulting the man he speaks throught to the world. The man he chose to tell the world about Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku and Tengyeling Monastery. The Tengyeling Oracle does not care about you insulting his motives but he fears that Methar may not be so forgiving.

So readers please feel free to email Pastor Elena and ask her about the true of what I have written about Tsem Tulku and the Tengyeling Oracle


vajratruth

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2016, 05:34:37 PM »

A warning to "tibetanindelhi" about you statement about the Tengyeling Oracle. ".....if he does, so what? You wants some rupees.....". When you insult an "Oracle" you are insulting the dharmapalas who speak through him. You have insulted not only the Tengyeling Oracle but also Methar. I hope you pray to Methar to forgive you for insulting the man he speaks throught to the world. The man he chose to tell the world about Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku and Tengyeling Monastery. The Tengyeling Oracle does not care about you insulting his motives but he fears that Methar may not be so forgiving.


Dear Harold,

I respect that you have your opinion and what you wrote is certainly within your right.

HOWEVER, it does NOT reflect Methar well to portray him as a vengeful spirit who "may not be so forgiving". That implies Methar will harm when in fact he has been subdued by the Serkong Dorjechang by means of teaching him the Dharma. Such a being who can be subdued by Dharma would have strong compassion. And to suggest that Methar may still be vindictive and hostile is to say the Serkong Dorjechang failed to subdue Methar properly.

Isn't Methar sworn to protect the Dharma and not his ego?

Having said all that, neither is it correct to state that just because one has not heard of a certain oracle doesn't mean he does not exist.

The issue here is to keep and open mind.

Harold Musetescu

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2016, 05:47:24 PM »
Hello Vajratruth.

Thank you for your comments.

In regards to the wrathful nature of "Methar" I suggest you read what Tsem Tulku wrote about Methar. In his writing about his wrathful manifestation Rinpoche publicly stated ".........He also uses the mala to count the heads of those evil beings he has slain....".

Maybe you are right about what you stated to me that Methar does not "slain" and His Eminence Tsem Tulku is wrong.

Tsem Tulku and I have our opinions on Methar wrathful nature and you are entitled to yours.

The issue here is to keep an open mind.

tibetanindelhi

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2016, 05:53:29 PM »
I prefer to trust Kyabje Tsem Rinpoche who very works tirelessly and puts his reputation and life on line for THE DORJE SHUGDEN LINEAGE. Kyabje Tsem Rinpoche life, his background, monastery, history and lineage is clear for all to see. You, nobody know who you are and no one see, hear or know about your Tengyle ling oracle. No proof. You should be grateful Methar is known and Tsem Rinpoche is kind to talk about it. He never take credit for himself and he simply teach about Methar. You rejoice already. Credit or no credit is not important. Don't focus on small issues. If Tengye ling oracle want credit, let him say so himself and reveal himself.
If he want credit so much, I lost trust in a non-existant oracle.




Hello Vajratruth.

Thank you for your comments.

In regards to the wrathful nature of "Methar" I suggest you read what Tsem Tulku wrote about Methar. In his writing about his wrathful manifestation Rinpoche publicly stated ".........He also uses the mala to count the heads of those evil beings he has slain....".

Maybe you are right about what you stated to me that Methar does not "slain" and His Eminence Tsem Tulku is wrong.

Tsem Tulku and I have our opinions on Methar wrathful nature and you are entitled to yours.

The issue here is to keep an open mind.

Harold Musetescu

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2016, 07:17:22 PM »
The Tengyeling Oracle can now be reached at "[email protected]".

Merry Christmas to all.

SabS

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Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2016, 06:23:32 PM »
I have read the article on "Methar of Tengyeling Monastery" on tsemrinpoche.com. It was a very moving story of how human greed and lust for power could wreck so much sufferings on others. It was especially painful how Methar was tortured and murdered. And yet with strong Dharma imprints he was able to let go of his vengeful anger to be a Protector of the Dharma under Dorje Shugden's entourage.

It was such a beautiful article of how Dharma conquers anger and yet I don't understand what is the purpose of Harold Musetescu's demands for aknowledgement or thank you from Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. Being a real Dharma practitioner, the Tengyeling Oracle would have been just happy that the truth of Methar's status is shared with the world and Harold if he did play his part in this article, then should be humbly happy. Why take away the blessings of something good by making a fuss to fulfill the ego of recognition? Harold, if you did contribute on behalf of the Tengyeling Oracle, I do thank both of you but don't create such discord when you should be happy in knowing good was created. Humbleness is our practice and although I don't have the merits yet, to receive the precious practice of tantra, ego is not a qualification.

If you are concern for the health or condition of Tengyeling Oracle whom you say is your Guru, then as a student you should appeal to your Dharma brothers and sisters or the Dharma community. Putting down another High Lama is not the way to get your appeal across. My apologies if I said wrong but your giving an email address is not much of a verification. Maybe if you could provide more information like his name and his background that others can check for authencity, it would be helpful.