Author Topic: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?  (Read 8774 times)

dsiluvu

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Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« on: July 10, 2012, 06:11:48 PM »
Looks like Dr. LS may have heard some of our comments in regards to "doing something"??? So just exactly what is the "new capaign"? UNITY???

LADAKH: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay arrived in Ladakh on Sunday to a warm reception by the Superintendent of Police, the chief representative officer,  the President of the Ladakh Buddhist Association, the speaker of the local Tibetan Assembly as well as by the heads of various other organisations.

Sonamling Tibetan settlement is a scattered settlement of Tibetan refugees but the Tibetan community came out in strong numbers, garbed in their traditional Tibetan attires, holding ceremonial scarves and the Tibetan national flag to greet Dr Lobsang Sangay, Kalon Tripa of the Central Tibetan Administration.

Upon his arrival, the chief representative officer of the settlement gave the Kalon Tripa a brief tour of the settlement, the different offices and the  local health clinic, and introduced the group leaders of the 12 camps and the leaders of other governmental and non-governmental organisations.

The Kalon Tripa met with the local Tibetan community in the afternoon. In his address to the public, he said he feels lucky to be visiting Ladakh for the third time now and expressed his desire to meet with the nomads and the people of the Jangthang areas this time.

He also spoke about the three visions of the 14th Kashag, Unity, Innovation and Self-Reliance, followed by a brief question and answer session.

Did he say Unity??? Does this include Shugden practitioners???

After that, he left to Leh to meet the members of the Ladakh Buddhist Association and other dignitaries from the Ladakhi community. They discussed the close cultural affinity of the two communities and promised to work together in every endeavour.

Tomorrow, Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay will visit the TCV school and address the students there.

Will he visit Shugden practitioners as well? After all it is politics has nothing to do with religion and well you do need the votes from what I know about democratic govt!



dsiluvu

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2012, 06:21:19 PM »
So what exactly is the 14 Kashag and so I did some clicking here and there to understand better, you know wondering how this new Tibetan in Exile govt will be operating. And guess what, there is elections... so can Shugden practitioners participate or are they some how no longer considered "Tibetans"? Does anyone know if they can vote?

Composition of Kashag & Parliament

 The Charter empowers Kalon Tripa to form a Kashag by nominating not more than 7 Kalons & the Kalon Tripa will have to announce the names of the nominees and their detail resume in the Parliament for approval.  If a nominee do not get unanimous approval from the Parliament, then the approval will have to go through voting in the Parliament.  The concerned nominee will have to get not less than 50 percent of votes in favour, to get a Kalon elected.  Thus, the 14th Kashag headed by Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay has six cabinet ministers, if it is necessary he can submit one more Kalon nominee to the Parliament for approval to make the present cabinet a full-fledged.

Tibetans in India, Nepal and Bhutan elect their MPs on the basis of 3 traditional regions of Tibet and the 5 Religious Traditions. The religious traditions are Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu, Gelug and Bon, while Amdo, Kham and U-Tsang are the three regions of Tibet.
The electorates in the Final Election, elect ten MPs from each of the three regions and the clergy electorates elect two MPs each from the five religious traditions. Tibetans in North America and Europe follow one uniform electoral procedure to elect Kalon Tripa & Tibetan MPs.  Outside India North America and Europe have the largest number of Tibetans and this is one of the reasons for having two MPs each from the two continents.  Thus, the strength of 15th Tibetan Parliament in Exile is 44 elected 44 MPs.

http://tibet.net/about-cta/election-commission/programs/composition-of-kashag-parliament/

dsiluvu

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2012, 06:54:47 PM »

Kashag's Statement On The 77th Birthday Celebration Of His Holiness

HHDLM-birthday-july-6-2012Dharamshala, July 6, 2012: - On this special and joyous occasion of the seventy-seventh birthday of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and on behalf of Tibetans inside and outside Tibet and the Central Tibetan Administration, I offer His Holiness our deepest reverence, prayers, and warmest wishes.

Today is the most auspicious day not only for the people of the Land of Snow but also for the entire world. Though Tibetans are confronted with an unparalleled tragedy in our history, we have still been able to establish and sustain a successful and an exemplary refugee community under the visionary leadership of His Holiness. Tibetans should cherish the principles of non-violence and democracy and many other vast contributions that His Holiness has made including bringing about a more peaceful world.

His Holiness was recognized at a most difficult period of Tibetan history. He was compelled to take over the spiritual and temporal powers at the tender age of sixteen. Similarly, at the age of twenty-four he had to leave his country and go into exile. In exile he was able to implement many of his long-held visions for democratization of Tibet. Major reforms included: the establishment of the Commission of the Tibetan People's Deputies in 1960; the promulgation of the Draft Constitution for a Future Tibet in 1963; adoption of the Charter of the Tibetans in Exile in 1991; the holding of the first direct election for Kalon Tripa in 2001; and finally in 2011 handing over of all political authority to the directly elected leadership. At that time His Holiness felt that it was an opportune moment for transferring political authority as Tibetans had reached greater maturity in democratic ideals and commitment to their practice. Undaunted by numerous challenges, sixty years of His Holiness' leadership has made the people of Tibet capable of standing on our own feet.

While deciding to hand over political authority to the directly-elected Tibetan leadership His Holiness stated: "although you have not welcomed my decision, let me reassure you that as long as Tibetan people retain their faith in me, I will continue to uphold my responsibilities. I believe that eventually Tibetan people will come to appreciate my decision." It should be noted that His Holiness took this decision at a time when so many authoritarian rulers around the world still brutally clung to power. The world hails this wise and far-sighted action towards a secular democracy.

Despite the anxieties of Tibetans in and outside Tibet over the last year, the devolution of political authority has ensured a smooth transition without major mishap due to the support and unity of Tibetans. The Kashag would like to appeal to all Tibetans to continue to remain united and extend their support to make this transition a success.

Today there is worldwide acknowledgement of the untiring contributions made by His Holiness as an advocate of non-violence, compassion, secular ethics, religious harmony and Tibetan freedom. His contributions have been marked by the highest honors including the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989. Most recently, His Holiness was awarded the prestigious 2012 Templeton Prize which recognized his "engagement with science and with people far beyond his own religious traditions" and for focusing "on the connections between the investigative traditions of science and Buddhism." Moreover, it is well known that despite the obstacles and pressures from the People's Republic of China the number of world leaders meeting with His Holiness is growing. It is also well known that his teachings are attracting an ever-growing global audience. Perhaps less known is that this audience includes thousands of Chinese from the Mainland including many members of China's more than 200 million Buddhists. Consequently, through their spiritual practice more Chinese are now learning about Tibet and its culture.

His Holiness has always stated that the final word on Tibet would be that of the Tibetans in Tibet. Despite forcible occupation by China for over fifty years, the Tibetan spirit and desire for freedom remains indomitable. Even the darkest period of the Cultural Revolution failed to crush the identity of the Tibetans. In the 1980's numerous protests took place against China's oppressive rule in Tibet. The landmark peaceful protests in 2008 were even larger in number and extended across the entire Tibetan plateau. The spate of self-immolations in Tibet since 2009 has clearly shown Tibetan aspirations for freedom and dignity remains strong.

Furthermore, the unshakeable Tibetan spirit and solidarity that now prevail across the three provinces are unprecedented in Tibet's history. The increasing number of people worldwide sympathetic to and interested in the Tibetan cause, culture and religion is a matter of pride. This has been possible solely because of His Holiness's leadership. For these vast contributions and achievement, and much more, we remain eternally grateful to His Holiness. The Great Fifth Dalai Lama helped strengthen Tibet by unifying the nation and creating greater consciousness of the Tibetan spirit and identity.

The Great Thirteenth Dalai Lama put Tibet on the world map by establishing relations with other countries and increasing its global status. Like his two great predecessors, His Holiness the Fourteenth Dalai Lama has contributed to strengthening internal unity of the Tibetans and the external profile of the Tibetan cause, and therefore will be recognized as amongst the great Dalai Lamas of Tibet.

At this delicate time external forces are trying to make every effort to undermine the legacy of His Holiness the Dalai Lama by creating disunity amongst Tibetans and disrupting the path towards secular democracy. For instance, the Chinese government is manipulating and financing different groups including the Shugden followers, and their actions have harmed the Tibetan cause. Tibetans should not fall prey to their manipulations and harmful intents. They should remain vigilant.

http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/features/press-and-statements/2682-kashags-statement-on-the-77th-birthday-celebration-of-his-holiness


The Tibetan leadership remains firmly committed to non-violence and the Middle-Way Approach. We believe that the only way to resolve the issue of Tibet is through dialogue, and we remain prepared to engage in meaningful dialogue anywhere and at anytime. We strongly urge Beijing to accept the Middle-Way Approach, which seeks genuine autonomy for Tibetans within the People's Republic of China and within the framework of the Chinese constitution. The Tibetan leadership considers substance to be primary and process as secondary, and is ready to announce the special envoys of His Holiness the Dalai Lama to continue the dialogue process. Hope is it that you can request for dialogue and Middle-Way Approach when there is none for Shugdenpas who are Tibetans too, aren't they?

Finally, like the Great Fifth who reunified Tibet and the Great 13th who was able to return to Tibet from India, we pledge to strive to facilitate the return of His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama to the Potala Palace, which is the wish of all Tibetans and the universal cry of all those who have self-immolated. With fervent prayers for His Holiness' long life and may all his wishes be fulfilled. May the truth prevail in Tibet.


Despite the anxieties of Tibetans in and outside Tibet over the last year, the devolution of political authority has ensured a smooth transition without major mishap due to the support and unity of Tibetans. The Kashag would like to appeal to all Tibetans to continue to remain united and extend their support to make this transition a success.

Today there is worldwide acknowledgement of the untiring contributions made by His Holiness as an advocate of non-violence, compassion, secular ethics, religious harmony and Tibetan freedom. His contributions have been marked by the highest honors including the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989. Most recently, His Holiness was awarded the prestigious 2012 Templeton Prize which recognized his "engagement with science and with people far beyond his own religious traditions" and for focusing "on the connections between the investigative traditions of science and Buddhism." Moreover, it is well known that despite the obstacles and pressures from the People's Republic of China the number of world leaders meeting with His Holiness is growing. It is also well known that his teachings are attracting an ever-growing global audience. Perhaps less known is that this audience includes thousands of Chinese from the Mainland including many members of China's more than 200 million Buddhists. Consequently, through their spiritual practice more Chinese are now learning about Tibet and its culture.

His Holiness has always stated that the final word on Tibet would be that of the Tibetans in Tibet. Despite forcible occupation by China for over fifty years, the Tibetan spirit and desire for freedom remains indomitable. Even the darkest period of the Cultural Revolution failed to crush the identity of the Tibetans. In the 1980's numerous protests took place against China's oppressive rule in Tibet. The landmark peaceful protests in 2008 were even larger in number and extended across the entire Tibetan plateau. The spate of self-immolations in Tibet since 2009 has clearly shown Tibetan aspirations for freedom and dignity remains strong.

Furthermore, the unshakeable Tibetan spirit and solidarity that now prevail across the three provinces are unprecedented in Tibet's history. The increasing number of people worldwide sympathetic to and interested in the Tibetan cause, culture and religion is a matter of pride. This has been possible solely because of His Holiness's leadership. For these vast contributions and achievement, and much more, we remain eternally grateful to His Holiness. The Great Fifth Dalai Lama helped strengthen Tibet by unifying the nation and creating greater consciousness of the Tibetan spirit and identity.

The Great Thirteenth Dalai Lama put Tibet on the world map by establishing relations with other countries and increasing its global status. Like his two great predecessors, His Holiness the Fourteenth Dalai Lama has contributed to strengthening internal unity of the Tibetans and the external profile of the Tibetan cause, and therefore will be recognized as amongst the great Dalai Lamas of Tibet.

At this delicate time external forces are trying to make every effort to undermine the legacy of His Holiness the Dalai Lama by creating disunity amongst Tibetans and disrupting the path towards secular democracy. For instance, the Chinese government is manipulating and financing different groups including the Shugden followers, and their actions have harmed the Tibetan cause. Tibetans should not fall prey to their manipulations and harmful intents. They should remain vigilant.

On August 8 this year, which coincides with Lhakar (Wednesday), Kalon Tripa will complete a year in office. To mark the day and more importantly to show our support, the Kashag calls on all Tibetans and friends to observe the day by organizing a global solidarity vigil. This international vigil will remember those Tibetans who have given up their lives for Tibet and show solidarity with every Tibetan in Tibet who continues to suffer oppression under Chinese rule.This vigil will be followed by another key event, which is a four-day Special General Meeting to be held from September 25 to 28 in Dharamsala. The meeting will discuss and deliberate the ongoing crisis in Tibet and formulate appropriate action plans. A long-life offering will be also presented to His Holiness on behalf of the Tibetan people and administration during the meeting.

The Tibetan leadership remains firmly committed to non-violence and the Middle-Way Approach. We believe that the only way to resolve the issue of Tibet is through dialogue, and we remain prepared to engage in meaningful dialogue anywhere and at anytime. We strongly urge Beijing to accept the Middle-Way Approach, which seeks genuine autonomy for Tibetans within the People's Republic of China and within the framework of the Chinese constitution. The Tibetan leadership considers substance to be primary and process as secondary, and is ready to announce the special envoys of His Holiness the Dalai Lama to continue the dialogue process.

On this occasion, we would like to express our deep appreciation and gratitude to the government of India and her people, and, in particular the state of Himachal Pradesh, for their generous hospitality and support for more than fifty years. We also thank all those who support the Tibetan people.

Finally, like the Great Fifth who reunified Tibet and the Great 13th who was able to return to Tibet from India, we pledge to strive to facilitate the return of His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama to the Potala Palace, which is the wish of all Tibetans and the universal cry of all those who have self-immolated. With fervent prayers for His Holiness' long life and may all his wishes be fulfilled. May the truth prevail in Tibet.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 08:12:07 AM by vajratruth »

Ensapa

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2012, 04:18:29 AM »
Looks like Dr. LS may have heard some of our comments in regards to "doing something"??? So just exactly what is the "new capaign"? UNITY???

LADAKH: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay arrived in Ladakh on Sunday to a warm reception by the Superintendent of Police, the chief representative officer,  the President of the Ladakh Buddhist Association, the speaker of the local Tibetan Assembly as well as by the heads of various other organisations.

Sonamling Tibetan settlement is a scattered settlement of Tibetan refugees but the Tibetan community came out in strong numbers, garbed in their traditional Tibetan attires, holding ceremonial scarves and the Tibetan national flag to greet Dr Lobsang Sangay, Kalon Tripa of the Central Tibetan Administration.

Upon his arrival, the chief representative officer of the settlement gave the Kalon Tripa a brief tour of the settlement, the different offices and the  local health clinic, and introduced the group leaders of the 12 camps and the leaders of other governmental and non-governmental organisations.

The Kalon Tripa met with the local Tibetan community in the afternoon. In his address to the public, he said he feels lucky to be visiting Ladakh for the third time now and expressed his desire to meet with the nomads and the people of the Jangthang areas this time.

He also spoke about the three visions of the 14th Kashag, Unity, Innovation and Self-Reliance, followed by a brief question and answer session.

Did he say Unity??? Does this include Shugden practitioners???

After that, he left to Leh to meet the members of the Ladakh Buddhist Association and other dignitaries from the Ladakhi community. They discussed the close cultural affinity of the two communities and promised to work together in every endeavour.

Tomorrow, Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay will visit the TCV school and address the students there.

Will he visit Shugden practitioners as well? After all it is politics has nothing to do with religion and well you do need the votes from what I know about democratic govt!

Sadly, all he's been so far is all talk and no results. He comes up with a very nice speech or proposal that gets put up on phayul.com, or some other news website, and the follow up actions just dont manifest or they dont come. Nothing gets done at the end of the day. It has happened so many times. Now, it is very clear that Lobsang Sanggay only wants to look good and make speeches to make himself and the CTA look good but does not want to carry out what is being said. What unity is he talking about when he is allowing Dorje Shugden practitioners to be discriminated? At least, if he is too afraid of lifting the ban, he could always make sure that the Dorje Shugden practitioners are not harmed by zealots or they get death threats. Even if they are isolated from the community, ir is the government's duty to protect the citizens and provide food and shelter, not encourage people to do such despicable acts.

The Dalai Lama has already united all Tibetans. There is no longer a reason for them to be segregated, except for the ban. They no longer discriminate each other according to which region of Tibet they are from because now, they have no tibet and no identity so they do not want to be more fragmented than they currently are. Their common denominator now is the Dalai Lama. There is no need for LS to mention unity, unless he passes a resolution to make it illegal for people to discriminate against Dorje Shugden practitioners. That would really prove unity. Else it's just talk and no action, which has been that way since he took office.

dsiluvu

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2012, 01:12:28 AM »
Quote
Even if they are isolated from the community, ir is the government's duty to protect the citizens and provide food and shelter, not encourage people to do such despicable acts.

The Dalai Lama has already united all Tibetans. There is no longer a reason for them to be segregated, except for the ban. They no longer discriminate each other according to which region of Tibet they are from because now, they have no tibet and no identity so they do not want to be more fragmented than they currently are. Their common denominator now is the Dalai Lama. There is no need for LS to mention unity, unless he passes a resolution to make it illegal for people to discriminate against Dorje Shugden practitioners. That would really prove unity. Else it's just talk and no action, which has been that way since he took office.

Ditto Ensapa! U know come to think of it... Tibetans are really quite "problematic" and not easy people to deal with hu? I mean u would think having embraced Buddhism and all that so well taught preaching on compassion and tolerance... what is going on with their own people??? Why so much drama... so much discrimination from territories to spirituality? Yiks I thought they are Buddhist?! With this kind of behaviour and inconsistency... no wonder China is turning a deaf ear on Tibetans and tightening their fist even more so they won't get out of control!

Yups the only UNITY Dr. Ls should be talking about is Dorje Shugden practitioners i reckon. Don't pretend it is not happening, why not visit Shar Gaden and Serpom? That will surely blow a lot disharmony away and bring the Tibetans back as one. All the other visit.. yes I must agree is quite pretentious at this moment!

Ensapa

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2012, 04:52:44 AM »

Ditto Ensapa! U know come to think of it... Tibetans are really quite "problematic" and not easy people to deal with hu? I mean u would think having embraced Buddhism and all that so well taught preaching on compassion and tolerance... what is going on with their own people??? Why so much drama... so much discrimination from territories to spirituality? Yiks I thought they are Buddhist?! With this kind of behaviour and inconsistency... no wonder China is turning a deaf ear on Tibetans and tightening their fist even more so they won't get out of control!

Yups the only UNITY Dr. Ls should be talking about is Dorje Shugden practitioners i reckon. Don't pretend it is not happening, why not visit Shar Gaden and Serpom? That will surely blow a lot disharmony away and bring the Tibetans back as one. All the other visit.. yes I must agree is quite pretentious at this moment!

they can choose to be problematic or they can choose to solve things the civil way and the easy way, but they choose to be problematic because they have this thinking that no matter how much they screw up, the Dalai Lama will always back them up and that is the attitude that they hold that causes them to fail and causes them to continue being difficult. But without Buddhism, i'd imagine that they would be even more difficult. Even now, there are still stories of the tibetans complaining that the Dalai Lama is not doing enough, and that they should wage war against the Chinese to regain their land. It is only on their respect for HHDL alone that they do not start going guerrilla against the Chinese. But they can change all that if they apply Buddhist teachings, and accept that it is their karma to lose Tibet to the Chinese, and do whatever they can to repair it from a spiritual point of view and on the secular level, continue to educate themselves on the world and its affairs and learn from there.

LS is just another clown puppet in the parliament. Under his leadership, the CTA will soon devolve into an association, unless of course he taks actions like dissolve the ban, or at least support the rights of those who still wish to continue their Dorje Shugden practice. That is equal rights and unity, not the statements he keeps making  but with 0 follow up action.

dsiluvu

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2012, 09:04:50 AM »
I suppose we cannot blame them too much because if we look back in history... Tibetans were not Buddhist. Hence this explains why the hostile attitude in them. And question is how come Bon religion which is worshiping spirits and nature is okay but the practice of an enlightened being - Dorje Shugden is not allowed and considered sectarianism??? Hmm very contradictory! Below is a brief history on Tibetans and their origin of faith.

Quote
When Buddhism was introduced into Tibet in the seventh century under King Songtsen Gampo, it was apparently centered in the royal court and did not, at first, put down deep roots. Almost a century passed until it found favor again under King Trisong Detsen, who with the aid of Padmasambhava strengthened its position. But even after that "first diffusion," the new religion lost ground, and it was not until the "second diffusion" of Buddhism in the ninth and tenth centuries that it became firmly and finally established as the majority religion of Tibet.

While this basic outline is not disputed, scholars have disagreed about precisely what it was that Buddhism replaced. Certainly, indigenous religious beliefs and practices dominated Tibet before even the first introduction of Buddhism in the seventh century, and during the subsequent stages of its history there. But with what did Buddhism struggle during that period between the "first" and "second" diffusions? And what were the influences that led Tibetan Buddhism to diverge so markedly from Indian Buddhism that later observers attached to it a new name -- Lamaism -- as to a separate, distinct cult?

The great Tibetologist, Giuseppe Tucci, called Tibet's indigenous religious beliefs and practices "the folk religion," for which R.A. Stein adopted the
telling designation, "the nameless religion." Just as various Middle-Eastern and European "pagan" beliefs, deities, customs and practices were absorbed into Christianity, so in Tibet many traces of the folk religion still exist, interwoven into Buddhist practices. But besides those popular beliefs, with their local cults and magical rites, another belief system either pre-dated Buddhism in Tibet or co-existed with it, and the relation of those two has been the subject of research and controversy.

That other religion is Bon. Giuseppe Tucci, David Snellgrove, and other scholars have worked to reconstruct the theology and iconography of early Bon, and have researched the question of Bon's origins, its history, and the extent of its relation to Buddhism. Tucci and other scholars believe that Bon preceded the introduction of Buddhism into Tibet. They identify divination and exorcism as central elements of the indigenous folk religion but also of Bon, and believe that both the folk religion and the more structured Bon contributed to the undeniably shamanistic aspect of Tibetan religious practice and customs. In this view, Bon brought a multiplicity of gods, demons, and spirits of nature into the Tibetan Buddhist pantheon, where they joined the gods absorbed from Indian tantrism. Tucci attributed Bon's formal doctrinal structure to a later borrowing from Buddhism. According to the standard history, Bon vied with Buddhism for dominance during the early centuries after the introduction of the new religion, and during the period between the first and second diffusions. In any case, Buddhism prevailed, but Bon, or some form of it, has survived in parts of Tibet as well as in remote Himalayan areas, such as Dolpo in northwestern Nepal, and there has recently been a Bon revival in the West.

According to this line of thought, the Bon that has survived was so heavily influenced and infused with later adaptations and borrowings from Buddhism that its original form can no longer be definitively distinguished from what is now the majority religion. Yet Buddhism was also heavily influenced by Bon: both shared traditions of magic and exorcism, and both were influenced by the still potent "folk religion." (Tucci considers that Bon was also influenced by Persian Zoroastrianism and by Shaivism, the cult of Shiva, which reached Tibet from the states on the western edge of the Himalayas.)

David Snellgrove, in contradiction, argues that Bon is not the old indigenous religion of Tibet. He agrees with the claim of present-day Bonpos (adherents of Bon) that their religion was, from the beginning, a form of Buddhism, however heterodox. Snellgrove maintains that before the famous introduction of Buddhism to Tibet in the seventh century under royal sponsorship, forms of Buddhism that had reached Central Asia were actually familiar to some Tibetans, and that Bon developed in Western or Central Asia earlier than its arrival, as traditionally understood, in Tibet. He points out that the Bonpos, like the orthodox sects, believe in an enlightened being, Shen-rab, analogous to Buddha, and that Shen-rab, like Shakyamuni, had previous incarnations and appears in various manifestations; he maintains, moreover, that the Bonpos also have a fully developed theology and a set of tantras that he finds corresponds with Buddhist practice. Snellgrove considers Bon much closer to the Nyingma-pa, known among the recognized orthodox Buddhist sects as the "old" school, than it is to the popular folk religion with its multitude of spirits, magical rites, divination, exorcism, auguries, etc. He argues that those supernatural aspects of the indigenous cult were accepted perforce by both Bonpos as well as Buddhists, as old, deeply ingrained customs against which it was futile to contend, however irrelevant or alien to their own beliefs.

To complicate matters, some Bonpos of the present time identify Bon as the religion that prevailed in Tibet prior to the introduction of Buddhism, a position that contradicts those who argue that Bon is merely another form of Buddhism, having developed at about the same time as Buddhism reached Tibet, if not somewhat earlier. And while Bonpos consider their religion as a form of Buddhism, present-day Tibetan Buddhists regard Bon as a distinct, different religion, not as a heterodox form of Buddhism.

In light of these contending, disparate views about the origin, history, and nature of Bon, and its disputed relation to Buddhism, Per Kvaerne has thus defined the three main theories:

    Bon was the pre-Buddhist religion of Tibet, its central figure a king with sacred powers;
    Bon was a form of Buddhism that developed in western Tibet at least as early as the period in which Buddhism was introduced into Tibet, and was similar in many respects to orthodox Buddhism;
    Bon, so-called, was not a religion in its own right, but the sum of all the indigenous beliefs, cults of local gods, popular rites, etc., that were once prevalent across Tibet.

Whatever the true origin, history, and nature of Bon, Tibetan Buddhist monastic orders are broadly tolerant of the old practices, some of which have almost no recognizable affinity with Buddhist belief. These native elements, whether they derive from Bon or from a folk religion, were strongly concerned with defence against hostile or ambivalent powers, ensuring that the dead do no harm to the living.
http://dl.lib.brown.edu/BuddhistTempleArt/buddhism4.html

Ensapa

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2013, 07:21:13 AM »
I suppose we cannot blame them too much because if we look back in history... Tibetans were not Buddhist. Hence this explains why the hostile attitude in them. And question is how come Bon religion which is worshiping spirits and nature is okay but the practice of an enlightened being - Dorje Shugden is not allowed and considered sectarianism??? Hmm very contradictory! Below is a brief history on Tibetans and their origin of faith.

Quote
When Buddhism was introduced into Tibet in the seventh century under King Songtsen Gampo, it was apparently centered in the royal court and did not, at first, put down deep roots. Almost a century passed until it found favor again under King Trisong Detsen, who with the aid of Padmasambhava strengthened its position. But even after that "first diffusion," the new religion lost ground, and it was not until the "second diffusion" of Buddhism in the ninth and tenth centuries that it became firmly and finally established as the majority religion of Tibet.

While this basic outline is not disputed, scholars have disagreed about precisely what it was that Buddhism replaced. Certainly, indigenous religious beliefs and practices dominated Tibet before even the first introduction of Buddhism in the seventh century, and during the subsequent stages of its history there. But with what did Buddhism struggle during that period between the "first" and "second" diffusions? And what were the influences that led Tibetan Buddhism to diverge so markedly from Indian Buddhism that later observers attached to it a new name -- Lamaism -- as to a separate, distinct cult?

The great Tibetologist, Giuseppe Tucci, called Tibet's indigenous religious beliefs and practices "the folk religion," for which R.A. Stein adopted the
telling designation, "the nameless religion." Just as various Middle-Eastern and European "pagan" beliefs, deities, customs and practices were absorbed into Christianity, so in Tibet many traces of the folk religion still exist, interwoven into Buddhist practices. But besides those popular beliefs, with their local cults and magical rites, another belief system either pre-dated Buddhism in Tibet or co-existed with it, and the relation of those two has been the subject of research and controversy.

That other religion is Bon. Giuseppe Tucci, David Snellgrove, and other scholars have worked to reconstruct the theology and iconography of early Bon, and have researched the question of Bon's origins, its history, and the extent of its relation to Buddhism. Tucci and other scholars believe that Bon preceded the introduction of Buddhism into Tibet. They identify divination and exorcism as central elements of the indigenous folk religion but also of Bon, and believe that both the folk religion and the more structured Bon contributed to the undeniably shamanistic aspect of Tibetan religious practice and customs. In this view, Bon brought a multiplicity of gods, demons, and spirits of nature into the Tibetan Buddhist pantheon, where they joined the gods absorbed from Indian tantrism. Tucci attributed Bon's formal doctrinal structure to a later borrowing from Buddhism. According to the standard history, Bon vied with Buddhism for dominance during the early centuries after the introduction of the new religion, and during the period between the first and second diffusions. In any case, Buddhism prevailed, but Bon, or some form of it, has survived in parts of Tibet as well as in remote Himalayan areas, such as Dolpo in northwestern Nepal, and there has recently been a Bon revival in the West.

According to this line of thought, the Bon that has survived was so heavily influenced and infused with later adaptations and borrowings from Buddhism that its original form can no longer be definitively distinguished from what is now the majority religion. Yet Buddhism was also heavily influenced by Bon: both shared traditions of magic and exorcism, and both were influenced by the still potent "folk religion." (Tucci considers that Bon was also influenced by Persian Zoroastrianism and by Shaivism, the cult of Shiva, which reached Tibet from the states on the western edge of the Himalayas.)

David Snellgrove, in contradiction, argues that Bon is not the old indigenous religion of Tibet. He agrees with the claim of present-day Bonpos (adherents of Bon) that their religion was, from the beginning, a form of Buddhism, however heterodox. Snellgrove maintains that before the famous introduction of Buddhism to Tibet in the seventh century under royal sponsorship, forms of Buddhism that had reached Central Asia were actually familiar to some Tibetans, and that Bon developed in Western or Central Asia earlier than its arrival, as traditionally understood, in Tibet. He points out that the Bonpos, like the orthodox sects, believe in an enlightened being, Shen-rab, analogous to Buddha, and that Shen-rab, like Shakyamuni, had previous incarnations and appears in various manifestations; he maintains, moreover, that the Bonpos also have a fully developed theology and a set of tantras that he finds corresponds with Buddhist practice. Snellgrove considers Bon much closer to the Nyingma-pa, known among the recognized orthodox Buddhist sects as the "old" school, than it is to the popular folk religion with its multitude of spirits, magical rites, divination, exorcism, auguries, etc. He argues that those supernatural aspects of the indigenous cult were accepted perforce by both Bonpos as well as Buddhists, as old, deeply ingrained customs against which it was futile to contend, however irrelevant or alien to their own beliefs.

To complicate matters, some Bonpos of the present time identify Bon as the religion that prevailed in Tibet prior to the introduction of Buddhism, a position that contradicts those who argue that Bon is merely another form of Buddhism, having developed at about the same time as Buddhism reached Tibet, if not somewhat earlier. And while Bonpos consider their religion as a form of Buddhism, present-day Tibetan Buddhists regard Bon as a distinct, different religion, not as a heterodox form of Buddhism.

In light of these contending, disparate views about the origin, history, and nature of Bon, and its disputed relation to Buddhism, Per Kvaerne has thus defined the three main theories:

    Bon was the pre-Buddhist religion of Tibet, its central figure a king with sacred powers;
    Bon was a form of Buddhism that developed in western Tibet at least as early as the period in which Buddhism was introduced into Tibet, and was similar in many respects to orthodox Buddhism;
    Bon, so-called, was not a religion in its own right, but the sum of all the indigenous beliefs, cults of local gods, popular rites, etc., that were once prevalent across Tibet.

Whatever the true origin, history, and nature of Bon, Tibetan Buddhist monastic orders are broadly tolerant of the old practices, some of which have almost no recognizable affinity with Buddhist belief. These native elements, whether they derive from Bon or from a folk religion, were strongly concerned with defence against hostile or ambivalent powers, ensuring that the dead do no harm to the living.
http://dl.lib.brown.edu/BuddhistTempleArt/buddhism4.html


The reason why Dorje Shugden was banned was to 'unify' tibet as Dorje Shugden was made a target of hate by the other traditions. Bon was allowed because the Dalai Lama wanted to preserve all things Tibet but what most people are not aware is that there are still many bonpos in Tibet and Bhutan, and they choose to remain hidden for good reasons, way beyond the reach of western scholars and their shoddy research at times. It is rather unfortunate that these scholars spread much misinformation and pass them as the truth, the karma will be quite heavy for misleading and confusing others.

vajratruth

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2013, 08:50:12 AM »
Its good for Lobsang Sangay to be promoting unity but unity is not borne out of giving popular speeches but being ready to make unpopular decisions and that is the missing ingredient that explains why Tibetans are such a divided community today. Unity is achieved when a leader does what is necessary and right, albeit unpopular in some quarters, to bring his people together. And until such time when Lobsang Sangay is prepared to take the bull by the horns and deal with the difficult issue of the Dorje Shugden ban, there can be no unity no matter how many campaigns he launches.

The reason is simple. Unity requires the co-operation of all the Tibetan people and how can Lobsang Sangay expect Shugden practitioners to come into the circle of unity on the one hand, while ostracizing them and making is socially unacceptable to be seen with them, on the other hand? To do so would insult everyone's intelligence and render the campaign farcical.

You cannot unite and at the same time create fissures among the people. It is physically and philosophically impossible. If Lobsang Sangay is sincere about Tibetan unity, he has to bring the Dorje Shugden ban down and take the necessary reconciliatory steps with the Shugden lamas, monks and lay practitioners who have been affected. Perhaps some Tibetans think that the Shugden ban does not affect them but they are wrong because the simple law of nature dictates that cracks grow bigger and spread, and it is to the community's own benefit to ensure that those in power are not those actually causing disunity.

The ban simply has to go.

Ensapa

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2013, 07:35:53 AM »
the logic here is simple indeed: if the Kalon Tripa cannot lift such a simple ban such as this, then how can he be expected to make more tough decisions and changes that will benefit the Tibetan people? The obvious answer is: he cant. He is just not cut out for the job. Obviously, his education and exposure to the west has all gone down to waste as he is not applying what he learnt in Harvard and also from whatever there is to be learnt from western history. Perhaps, the ban is to check and test his capability as a leader, and unfortunately he failed it badly.

Rihanna

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 01:23:50 AM »
It is great to see the government under the Kalon Tripa Lobsang Sangay promoting unity and addressing popular speeches. However, I feel even more efforts into uniting Tibetans is needed to promote unity among Tibetans. It should translate into action and not remain as a politically correct speech that just remains so.

One of the main reason that Tibetans are still divided is the banning of Dorje Shugden’s practice. It will be pointless for the Kalon Tripa, with due respect, to promote unity when most Tibetans were divided due to the banning of this practice and caused so much differences and conflicts among Tibetans. Too much upheaval has been caused. So for this very reason alone, the Tibetans can never be united and this issue will remain unresolved unless the CTA lifts the ban which I feel is an inevitable move to achieve peace and unity.

 

Ensapa

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2013, 04:57:33 AM »
It is great to see the government under the Kalon Tripa Lobsang Sangay promoting unity and addressing popular speeches. However, I feel even more efforts into uniting Tibetans is needed to promote unity among Tibetans. It should translate into action and not remain as a politically correct speech that just remains so.

One of the main reason that Tibetans are still divided is the banning of Dorje Shugden’s practice. It will be pointless for the Kalon Tripa, with due respect, to promote unity when most Tibetans were divided due to the banning of this practice and caused so much differences and conflicts among Tibetans. Too much upheaval has been caused. So for this very reason alone, the Tibetans can never be united and this issue will remain unresolved unless the CTA lifts the ban which I feel is an inevitable move to achieve peace and unity.

With regards to promoting unity, I dont really feel that he is if he only wants to appeal to the popular opinions as opposed to making the right decisions such as lifting the Dorje Shugden  ban or making a plan to actually develop Dharamsala, or even make statements that urge people to stop degrading China and work towards negotiations with China in a more realistic and serious way as opposed to doing something half assed and badmouthing China at every turn they can and protesting against China, they should instead try to get on China's good side.

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2015, 10:56:05 AM »
The CTA had not achieved anything for the Tibetans in exile but yet their mission and words are very enticing.

This article explains how CTA exist and how MPs are chosen.  Maybe looking at how they are ''made up'' is the complete clue as to why they are not effective.  Words do not match actions.

Talk of  UNITY when they discriminate Dorje Shugden worship.  How very weird.

prodorjeshugden

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2016, 02:29:51 PM »
When I saw this post i thought that there was really going to be unity  among  everyone . But will Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang really create unity among everyone? Seeing what the CTA has done on Dorje Shugden  practitioners it  doesn't seem possible that unity will be achieved, why? Because the CTA has been taking harsh action on Shugdeners for so long that it will be a long time before the CTA decides to slacken their stance against the Dorje shugden ban. However that can only happen if more people keep on pressuring the CTA continuously over long periods of time. Only then will the ban collapse.

So everyone don't lose hope, keep praying keep protesting against  the Dorje Shugden ban, with luck the ban will fall in due time.

grandmapele

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Re: Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay on mission UNITY?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2016, 07:59:20 AM »
The Desi was put to rest by the 7th Dalai Lama, the Kashag Tripa has become the Sikyong in 2012. All good things must come to an end though some believe otherwise. Claiming that the Chinese are backing the Shugdenpas seemed a very convenient way to distract the world. Whatever the agenda, whatever the belief, by pointing fingers, truth or otherwise, some people will suffer. In this case, the Shugdenpas who were, in a way, the obstacles to the CTA's agenda, were differentiated to diffuse their influence and distract the people from the real issue of the inability of the CTA to free Tibet.

That is ever so childish of the CTA but there will be people who will buy it. Drowning people will grasp at any straw.

So, do not follow the lemmings to their cliff. We should do our own studies and understand about Dorje Shugden ourselves and be firm and convinced in our own knowledge. Then the ignorant bullies cannot sway us. When enough of us stand up for our rights, voice out our demand for freedom of religion, question the absence of equanimity (the equanimity which is propounded in the Four Immeasurables of Tibetan Buddhism), then and only then will the world wake up.

Silence means acquiescence, unfortunately. But, following the examples of the crude and violent followers of the Dalai Lama is not the way either. Two wrongs does not make a right. Guess, we do have to be seen and heard.