Author Topic: The poor are more generous?  (Read 10608 times)

DS Star

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The poor are more generous?
« on: August 04, 2014, 01:17:51 AM »
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Buddhists teachings stated that giving is good because it accrues merit and creates karma that will bring future happiness.

Buddha taught that the more we give, the more we will receive. By this logic, rich people should be very generous by the fact that they are enjoying the fruits of being generous in previous lives or the earlier part of this life.

Can Buddha be wrong on this?

According to some studies, the poor are more generous.

"Indeed, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics' latest survey of consumer expenditure found that the poorest fifth of America's households contributed an average of 4.3 percent of their incomes to charitable organizations in 2007. The richest fifth gave at less than half that rate, 2.1 percent."

Source:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/05/19/68456/americas-poor-are-its-most-generous.html



Anyway, the Buddha taught that when we give to others, we give without expectation of reward. We give without attaching to either the gift or the recipient. We practice giving to release greed and self-clinging.

Matibhadra

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2014, 05:10:12 AM »
Quote
Buddha taught that the more we give, the more we will receive. By this logic, rich people should be very generous by the fact that they are enjoying the fruits of being generous in previous lives or the earlier part of this life.

This ”logic” is wrong. The fact that rich people are enjoying in this life the fruits of their generosity in previous lives does not mean that they will be generous in this life.

Indeed, having become rich in this life through the force of generosity in previous lives, one may become attached to such riches, and therefore miserly in this life.

That's why samsara is a wheel, a cycle, not linear.

X

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 10:35:58 AM »
The poor really are more generous than the rich ones. Recently I have seen a few same kind of videos. The poor actually share what they have among themselves even though they have so little to give but they still do it. They live a more simple life, they went through a lot of hardship that they have realize something. They are not blinded by money and material goods, what they want is just shelter and food to survive. It always do touches my heart when I see all these videos and I respect for their actions. I feel guilty most of the time when I see homeless on the streets, because for such good life I am having, I don’t have to go through what they are going through.

kris

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 09:15:49 AM »
There is this saying that the poor knows the suffering of being hungry, knows the suffering of having no money, therefore, when others ask from them, they are a lot more generous than the so-called richer people. Many of the people who can afford to give are not willing to give, because sometimes they others wanted to cheat them. But if we think about it, even if we are being "cheat", it is only a few dollars and just a few slices of pizza, what do we have to lose?

I am starting to realize that why many of the holy places, the people around there mostly are not financially rich, and they are spiritually much richer!

Galen

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2014, 11:31:05 AM »
It is indeed true that the poor are generally more generous than the rich. This may be because the rich is too attached to their wealth and has become stingy. They are afraid that they will be cheated of their wealth and they will end up becoming poor. Part of the reason why they are wealthy this life is because of the accumulation go merits of what they did in their previous lives. So, they get to enjoy what they have now. If they want to continue enjoying the wealth into their next life and so on, they should practice generosity. The more we give, the more we get, both monetary and satisfaction.

The poor on the other hand is experiencing the hardship of being poor and therefore they would not want others to suffer the same as them, so they are more willing to give to others. They practice empathy.

DS Star

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2014, 06:51:46 AM »
This ”logic” is wrong. The fact that rich people are enjoying in this life the fruits of their generosity in previous lives does not mean that they will be generous in this life.

Indeed, having become rich in this life through the force of generosity in previous lives, one may become attached to such riches, and therefore miserly in this life.

That's why samsara is a wheel, a cycle, not linear.


What about habituation?

We were told that our habituation comes from our previous lives.... and so we will do things 'naturally' in this life due to our previous lives' habit. If one is generous in previous lives, one should be 'naturally' practice generosity in this life as well.

In the Law of Cause and Effect (Karma), there is this explanation "that an effect can become a cause for a future event" thus the "chain of events continues..."

This concept is applicable for both positive and negative actions, hence, the rich people that were generous in previous lives, with the force of their karma, will most likely be generous in this life.

A famous Buddhist saying goes:

Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.


How come this is not the case?

What went wrong?

Klein

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2014, 08:34:25 AM »
This ”logic” is wrong. The fact that rich people are enjoying in this life the fruits of their generosity in previous lives does not mean that they will be generous in this life.

Indeed, having become rich in this life through the force of generosity in previous lives, one may become attached to such riches, and therefore miserly in this life.

That's why samsara is a wheel, a cycle, not linear.


What about habituation?

We were told that our habituation comes from our previous lives.... and so we will do things 'naturally' in this life due to our previous lives' habit. If one is generous in previous lives, one should be 'naturally' practice generosity in this life as well.

In the Law of Cause and Effect (Karma), there is this explanation "that an effect can become a cause for a future event" thus the "chain of events continues..."

This concept is applicable for both positive and negative actions, hence, the rich people that were generous in previous lives, with the force of their karma, will most likely be generous in this life.

A famous Buddhist saying goes:

Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.


How come this is not the case?

What went wrong?

Nothing went wrong. Having material abundance may be a result of making frequent offerings to the 3 Jewels in their previous lives. Hence, certain conditions in this lifetime have triggered for the karma of material abundance to open.

Being generous in a few lifetimes as compared to aeons of stinginess may be the reason why some wealthy people are not as generous in this lifetime. Their aeons of stinginess may have a stronger imprint than generosity. That's why it is important to perpetuate positive habits that not only serve us now but in our future lives so that we don't fall back to creating more negative karma.

dondrup

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2014, 09:32:41 AM »
Generosity or giving can be defined as a virtuous mental decision to give, or a bodily or verbal action of giving that is motivated by a virtuous state of mind. There are four types of giving: giving material things, giving Dharma, giving love, and giving fearlessness.

It is not necessary that the poor gives more or the rich gives less. 

In this case study, the rich are not generous though they are experiencing their wealth through efforts performed in their past.  It is possible that these rich people are ignorant about the teachings on generosity that they fail to give or share their wealth with others.

It is the motivation and the state of mind of the giver that determines generosity. Most likely these rich people are not so motivated by compassion to give because they may think that their wealth is earned through hard work.  Why do they have to give to others when others should similarly work hard to earn their keep.  On the other hand, when the giver had generated compassion for others, the giver will naturally give.

Buddha cannot be wrong about generosity.

Matibhadra

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2014, 11:33:08 AM »
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What about habituation?

Habituation does exist; it is the effect of an action which is similar to the cause, or the tendency to repeat previous actions. Lamrim texts extensively discuss it.

Mere habituation with skillful actions, however, is not is not enough to counteract afflictive mentalities such as desirous attachment together with its root, ignorance.

Therefore, no matter how much one gets habituated with giving, as long as one remains prey to ignorance and desirous attachment, one is bound to get attached to the very riches resulting from one's previous generosity, and thus develop greed, and thus be reborn in the hungry ghost realm.

Thus, one may confidently say that there is not one single hungry ghost who did not previously become habituated with giving, or generosity. By the same token, there is no single hell denizen or animal who did not previously become habituated with patience and moral discipline.

That's why samsara is a wheel, a cycle. The linear idea of the world, according to which the virtuous has always been virtuous and the non-virtuous has always been non

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We were told that our habituation comes from our previous lives.... and so we will do things 'naturally' in this life due to our previous lives' habit. If one is generous in previous lives, one should be 'naturally' practice generosity in this life as well.

Tell this to the hungry ghosts who were previously generous, and then wealthy, and then got attached to the wealth created by their own previous generosity, and then became hungry ghosts as a result of their greed, no matter how habituated they were to generosity once upon a time.

The idea you propose, that the rich are necessarily generous, and thus that the poor are necessarily stingy, stinks to the Calvinistic idea that those of superior birth are by nature virtuous, and those of low birth are by nature wicked.

Even worse, it stinks to the infamous racist Jewish ideology of ”choseness”, or that those who are born Jews belong to a ”chosen people”, with special rights over and above non-Jews (dismisssively called ”goys”).

Quote
In the Law of Cause and Effect (Karma), there is this explanation "that an effect can become a cause for a future event" thus the "chain of events continues..."

Your ”Law of Cause and Effect (Karma)” source sounds more like a pseudo-Buddhist almanac written by some Christian missionary of the 19th century. It is plainly wrong to start with.

Not always an effect becomes a cause for a future event, because not always an effect is an action, and only actions are causes for future events.

Therefore, one should carefully scrutinize statements and their sources, always relying on reason and authentic Buddhist sources, so as not to be duped by pseudo-Buddhist junk as it happened to you.

Quote
This concept is applicable for both positive and negative actions, hence, the rich people that were generous in previous lives, with the force of their karma, will most likely be generous in this life.

This again is the infamous un-Buddhistic, Calvinistic idea that the rich are by nature virtuous, and the poor are naturally non-virtuous.

Actually, most people who are born rich are already spoiled in their early childhood, and thus become the greedy adults mentioned by the survey you reported in the original post.

Also, the Buddha taught that sufferings such as poverty may become a favorable condition for the development of virtue, such as generosity, which is also confirmed by the same survey.

Your original proposition was that the Buddha was ”wrong”, and contradicted by the mentioned survey, and that the Buddha supported the perverted Jewish-Calvinistic idea of the natural superiority of the rich or the ”chosen”.

However, it turns out that not only the survey confirms Buddha's teachings, but also that you lack any clue about the same Buddha's teachings, which you have grossly, if not maliciously, misrepresented.

Quote
A famous Buddhist saying goes:
Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.

This is a fake ”Buddha” quote. Buddha never said this. The author of these words is a guy called Frank Outlaw, the president of a U.S. supermarket chain called Bi-Lo, and was published in a Texas newspaper feature called “What They’re Saying” in May 1977. See http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/01/10/watch-your-thoughts/ and http://www.fakebuddhaquotes.com/the-thought-manifests-as-the-word/

By the way, this fake Buddha ”quote” has been consistently used by irresponsible, pseudo-Buddhist, Jewish propagandizers, such as Sharon Salzberg and Lama Surya Das, as though they were authentic Buddha words. Their malicious intent of falsifying Buddha's teachings is quite clear.

Quote
How come this is not the case?

As already shown, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics survey findings are pretty consistent with Buddha's teachings.

What is not consistent with Buddha's teachings is the way you grossly misrepresent them, based on fake sources seconded by asinine reasonings.

Quote
What went wrong?

You, from the bottom down.

RedLantern

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2014, 03:33:00 PM »

Buddhist teachings are main concerned with our state of mind and generosity is about having non-attachment to or craving for things.He stated in the Four Noble Truths that our suffering stems from our craving and attachment to things,so without this craving and attachment our minds become clearer ,happier and a little freer,which in turn means less suffering.What is little and what is more,is very subjective.

Jessie Fong

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2014, 03:48:51 PM »
To be poor is to have little /not having enough money for basic things to live properly, or having few possessions.  To have been in such a situation will make you understand what it is like. Since you will know what it is like, you will be able to reach out more to those people who are going through the same situation.

Generosity is not only about giving money - you can be generous with you time, advice, etc. things that are not tangible.



Matibhadra

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2014, 04:03:00 PM »
Just to complete a sentence left unfinished in my previous post:

That's why samsara is a wheel, a cycle. The linear idea of the world, according to which the virtuous has always been virtuous and the non-virtuous has always been non-virtuous, and that the well-off are ”virtuous”, and the bereft and destitute are ”non-virtuous”, is a perverted, Abrahamic view, incompatible with Buddhist teachings.

maricisun

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2014, 04:24:30 AM »
Buddha teaches us to be kind and compassionate which generosity is of course included. It's good to give as it does accumulate merits for oneself too.
Sometimes we wonder why the rich don't give as much as the poor gave. It's because they understand and feel what it like to be poor or hungry or cold whereas the rich doesn't felt as much.
Therefore the poor are generally more generous and the merits accumulated will be tremendous too.

angelica

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2014, 02:12:56 PM »
For the rich people, no matter how generous they are, they will still keep some money for themselves. They will not donate all, cos they need the money to maintain their current lifestyles. They have work very hard to be in today's financial standing, they would not want to be poor again or to beg for food after donating all. Hong Kong star, Mr Chow Yun Fat,  plans to donate everything to charity when his time comes as a way to give thanks to society. Mr CHow said, "I feel that the money does not really belong to me. I am just in charge of keeping it temporarily! I will definitely donate it all! I will give it to charities that need it the most." The same goes with Bill Gates, that he intends to eventually give away all this vast fortune. Aren't these man rich and generous?

As for the poor, what they have is already the minimum. If they are willing to give away all they have, even though it might only worth a few $, as compare to a billionaires that donate $1000 for charity, the poor is definitely more generous, cos he gave away all he has.

Whether we are the poor or the rich one, we must always cultivate  generousity. Cultivating generosity counter the tendency we all have to grasp and hold.



MoMo

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Re: The poor are more generous?
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2014, 06:37:32 AM »
It is true that the wealth of this life that we’re experiencing now was due to act of generosity from the past. The only problem with us is that we haven’t done so frequent enough for it to become our second nature that it could be brings forward to next life.
Similarly there are also many types of suffering that we have experiences from the past and that too have not been the causes for us to contemplate on suffering to develop wisdom. This is how the cycle of samsaric life goes round and round.
When the condition of a specific rebirth is favorable, we indulge in it as there is no tomorrow, wasting our time and merits with it. When it is bad, it is pretty much nothing we could do as well only mourn and endure so that it will end when its conditions cease.
The videos shows that all of us have a soft-sports for others pain and suffering when we’re experiencing pain now but will that turn into causes for arising of wisdom is another story.