Author Topic: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT  (Read 20640 times)

vajralight

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Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« on: June 02, 2009, 08:53:26 AM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/31/dalai-lama-osel-hita-torres

Either he is really an ordinary kid just choosing his own path in life, (which means the DL and Lama Zopa were hugely mistaken in recognizing him as the reincarnation of Lama Yeshe) or he is the reincarnation of Lama Yeshe (life long Dorje Shugden practitioner) and doesn't want to be asociated with FPMT anymore because of the way it is run/set up now. Anyway... another tulku bites the dust, how sad.


vajra(light)



vajralight

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Re: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2009, 08:54:57 AM »
http://www.magazinebabylon.com/BabylonMagazine5.pdf

The original interview with Osel, from page 56/62

vajra

pclayton

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theloneranger

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Re: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2009, 09:45:03 PM »
i read osel's mesage on fpmt, hmmm seem's he has lost the plot and doesn't seem to have the accumulated merits in his mindstream to help himself and connect with the dharma. This really looks bad for fpmt! 

Thom

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Re: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 10:16:13 PM »

   I think that applicants for monkhood should hit the road for at least two years with only a bowl,robe, sandals and a firm ability to speak Lord Buddha's Precepts, before they are ordained.
  Tulku recognition might not work very well in the West. So many undiscovered Masters running around untrained  ::)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 06:05:42 AM by Thom »

Alexis

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Re: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2009, 11:31:06 PM »
Thom,

I agree with you!  :)

There is an increasing lack of renunciation in the sangha in general, not only in tulkus. We have lots of big projects and big plans for growing and increasing the teachings, accumulating name and disciples, and not much as a way of renunciation which is, according to our Father, the first foundation of the path.

I'm sorry to say but this is caused by Lamas and abbots in authority position which are not sending a clear enough message to their students. We are too lax with vinaya and giving up the eight worldly Dharmas.

I have said this many times already but not many people seem to agree. It's going to hit them someday. Then these posts will provide food for their brains...That is to say: we need a behavioral reform in the Ganden tradition, not just new gompas and buildings !

Anyway...
« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 05:47:09 PM by Alexis »

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 03:51:05 PM »



FPMT these days seldom talk about or mention Lama Osel. It must be a great embarrassment for them.

FPMT centres around the world are famous for their 'witch hunts' against other centres that do dorje shugden or suspected of upkeeping the practice. They think of themselves as some kind of spiritual police for the Dalai Lama. But the real motivation behind them pointing fingers at others is abundantly clear and it is not for spiritual purposes. No witch hunts can be be motivated by spiritual good intentions. They want to look good for the Dalai Lama/Tibetan Govt in Exile, so they get their support. With more support, more members and MORE MONEY to do their projects. Which in itself is not bad, but to point fingers at other centres and make other centres look bad does not justify the means as an end to the results. Their methods are wrong.

FPMT gave up shugden, but they should remain quiet about it. They should just do their dharma practice and be still and don't need to make a fanfare about it. Instead you can hear of their attacks on other centres quite often. They want to look so good, that even in their centres they have signs posted up that if you do Shugden, you are not welcome. How strange. How fanatical. So if Lama Yeshe, Trijang Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche showed up, they wouldn't be allowed in??


What they don't realize is that Lama Zopa is advanced in age and if he passes away, then what happens? They don't have any one to pass the torch to. Lama Osel should have been the one.

FPMT has created many people within their own organization and other organization to doubt, lose faith, question and have negative thoughts against their gurus for practicing Dorje Shugden. In that way, they have caused many to break their samayas with their gurus. That broken samaya comes back to them by way of Lama Osel, who is not able to manifest and 'continue' his dharma works as so much hoped by FPMT. So doesn't Lama Yeshe have attainments? If so, what happened. It leads us to believe that Lama Yeshe cannot manifest his dharma works due to the heavy broken samayas of his wayward students. That is works are delayed due to the karma of his students.

FPMT should repair their samaya with Lama Yeshe by doing their Dorje Shugden practices. Then their organization can continue even after the Dalai lama has passed away. By criticizing dorje shugden practitoners to get on the Dalai Lama's good side, they abandon their own lineage lama (Lama Yeshe).

But by abandoning their lineage lama, they slowly create the causes for their own centres/organization to go down, down and finally flat in the future. By following their lineage lama, they can make their organization succeed well into the future. In the future, whatever the Dalai Lama has said will be forgotten. All thirteen of the previous Dalai Lamas' words are unknown or forgotten to most dharma practitioners.  Hardly anyone cares what the previous Dalai Lamas has said. No doubt they were great teachers, but truth be told, it is past already.

So by FPMT making the current Dalai Lama 'happy', they lose themselves. It is better to continue up their Dorje Shugden practices quietly and stop criticizing other practitioners in order to please the Dlalai Lama, because when this current Dalai Lama passes away, then they will have nothing left. No Dalai lama to win favour with and no blessings of the lineage lama and no reincarnation of Lama Osel doing dharma work and Lama Zopa will have passed away. FPMT should think carefully.

Lama Osel cannot manifest his dharma work because they have broken their samaya with Lama Yeshe by abandoning Dorje Shugden's practice. Also by disparaging others who continue to practice Dorje Shugden under so much duress which shows you their strength of mind.

Many of the senior FPMT students have met Lama Yeshe first and accepted him as their guru before they have ever met the Dalai Lama. So they should hold what Lama Yeshe held close to his heart, which is Dorje Shugden and practices.

Lama Yeshe has mentioned many times during his talks that FPMT grew and was successful due to the blessings of his dharma protector Dorje Shugden. Who bide a way was the one who also officially recognized Lama Zopa's current incarnation (see book 'The Lawudo Lama' by Jamyang Wangmo. Vajra Publications pges 171-180)

So outwardly, FPMT may look rosy from the outside now, but definitely not in the near and distant future. Cause and effects does exist unless the Buddha was mistaken.

I do not wish for FPMT to fall, nor do I wish ill of the Dalai lama, but I do wish people would follow the teachings and practices of their teachers without being swayed by the political winds.




« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 03:59:11 PM by tk »

Vajra

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Re: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2009, 04:46:57 PM »
Hi all,

TK, your post is so illustrative, it makes me think many things, you expose clearly the karma created by breaking samaya with a guru.

On another hand:
Could it be possible that Lama Osel (Hita Torres) is not the real or current incarnation of Lama Yeshe? And, if that is the case, could it be possible that the real incarnation is in another place, not yet known??

With love
Vajra

a friend

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Re: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2009, 04:49:57 AM »

I don't think it's proper to speculate about the karmic reasons for the type of life chosen by the young Osel Hita.
Are we omniscient Buddhas? The karma of beings is quite a specific object of the mind of the enlightened ones.
We have several young tulkus belonging to our lineage. We don't know what obstacles they might encounter in this unprotected world, out of the cocoon of monasteries of old. If some among them were to disrobe or decide on some unexpected road for their lives, what are we going to say? Tulkus are not inherently tulkus, they arise in dependence of many factors. On interpreting the apparent mishappen of one tulku the way we are doing it right now, I fear that we might be sowing obstacles for our tulkus, the ones living now and the ones to come.



theloneranger

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Re: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2009, 08:42:23 PM »
Lets not beat around the bush.  The Tulku system is so open to corruption and has no place in the modern world that preaches democracy.  I personally don't like the Tulku system, never have and never will. True masters will immerge when neccessary, they don't need to emanate as Tulku's to spread pure dharma.  Much better to pick and vote for the most qualified teacher in the tradition who sets the best example.  FPMT have been so busy slating other traditions for years and now they egg on there face and look stupid! I have little sympathy with them!  So many Tulku's have been chosen through corruption over the past hundreds of years, that it's impossible to know who is who!  Lets face the facts, it's clear to see Lama Osel was not a true reincarnation of Lama Thubten Yeshe.   If he was he would still be ordained and expounding the true dharma like a true master, lets not get wishy washy with our words now.  Tibetan Buddhism in India/Nepal/Tibet is in a state of degeneration.  The pure dharma has moved to west!

kelsang

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Re: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2009, 11:14:54 PM »
Hello,

I dont think its a good idea to generalize too much, the FPMT has many members, individuals, who try to follow their teachers. Its a coincidence, Karma, where we end up. Noone can be inherently evil and people have many facets. In fact i dont think there is much of a difference between most NKT followers and most people from FPMT. Definetly there are many people within buddhist traditions (including our own) and any organization, religious or not, in the world, who hold narrow and stupid views, do and say silly things but ( no offence ) having little sypathy for "them" isnt very smart eather!
I said it before and will keep saying that here: This is a public forum where people from all over the worl read about Dorje Shugden and his followers to be able to judge and form an opinion. Any writing here will represent this practise and its followers directly so we shouldnt say so many childish things and really try hard to at least think about what we write here.
I am not saying i am faultless i simply try not to display my faults publicly in the name of my Protector.

For further information go to youtube and type: Dont embarrass the Buddha ..Tsem Rinpoche rocks...yeah yeah.

Love
Kelsang

theloneranger

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Re: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2009, 07:04:06 PM »
In fact i dont think there is much of a difference between most NKT followers and most people from FPMT. Definetly there are many people within buddhist traditions (including our own) and any organization, religious or not, in the world, who hold narrow and stupid views, do and say silly things but ( no offence ) having little sypathy for "them" isnt very smart eather! 

And Jesus said, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.  ???

kelsang

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Re: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2009, 10:41:41 PM »
Hi,

I am sorry maybe what i wrote was a little confusing, I mixed up two things.
First generalization, i just meant that only because a few people within an organization hold views that u dont share I dont think its apropriate to generalize and impute "bad" on the whole thing. Especially because from their side they may even have a good motivation. Its discrimanating and a narrow view itself to condemn a whole group just because they dont think the way u do. Who is them and they? and most important whats the difference between u and them?
Second is about having or not having sympathy for someone who does or say things u dont agree with. Well as far as i know and understood the teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha theres absolutely no way out of samsara other than establishing pure love and compassion for all living beings in our mind. ( this by the way would be a nice debate subject.. we can have a big web debate on love... unless u agree with me already ;) )

Love and prayers
Kelsang

kelsang

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Re: Lama Osel (Hita Torres) renounces the FPMT
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2009, 11:01:48 PM »
Hi Trinley la,

please allow me to point something out as a reply to your comment.
That something is going really wrong and many teachers are doing worse then setting a low standard is quite clear to most of the people here but personally i think "the risk of doing the same oneself" is bigger then most people think. What a great waste of time to be angry with someone or even a group of people, destroy their name and fame out of ignorance and pride. I think we should never allow ourselves to become like that and instead use the oportunity to act with wisdom and compassion. Wisdom in my case is definetly relying on my spiritual guide and any action without compassion is worth absolutely nothing .. its all a dream, a complete illusion anyway whats the point of focusing on anything but changing our mind. I assume he is not Chenresig but do have great sympathy for the person Dalai Lama even on a conventional level based on many experiances and for good reason, wich is a disputable view ..i know .. But understanding that he is another drop of the very ocean i am (...part of) i do love him, for anything but that would be not following my holy teachers advice.

i love you guys  ;)

Kelsang