Dalai Lama OK with Gay Marriage

[icy]

Scott Bixby
WORLD NEWS  03.07.14

Contradicting previous statements about gays, the foremost Tibetan Buddhist’s peace-and-love message now includes same-sex couples.

It’s not every day that a 78-year-old man comes out in favor of same-sex marriage, particularly when that septuagenarian happens to be His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism and winner of the Nobel Peace Prize. In an interview on Ora.tv’s Larry King Now show, the exiled spiritual leader offered a matter-of-fact endorsement of gay marriage: “If two people—a couple—really feel that way is more practical, more sort of satisfaction, both sides fully agree, then OK.” ??The Dalai Lama clarified that the religious should still follow their faith’s rules on sexual behavior, “but then for a non-believer, that is up to them. So there are different forms of sex—so long as it is safe, OK, and if they fully agree, OK.”

The Dalai Lama, considered in Tibetan Buddhism to be the 14th incarnation of Avalokite?vara, a being who embodies the compassion of all Buddhas, had previously urged for “respect, compassion, and full human rights for all,” including gays.

But many of his previous statements regarding homosexuality would seem more at home at the Conservative Political Action Conference. At a meeting with gay and lesbian Buddhists in 1997, His Holiness said that “Even with your wife, using one’s mouth or the other hole is sexual misconduct. Using one’s hand, that is sexual misconduct.”  He has also described relations between people of the same sex as “what we Buddhists call bad sexual conduct. Sexual organs were created for reproduction between the male element and the female element—and everything that deviates from that is not acceptable from a Buddhist point of view.”

 
Much of the Dalai Lama’s objection to homosexual behavior stems from the Buddhist belief that sensual enjoyment, and desire in general, are hindrances to enlightenment. Lay Buddhists—that is, Buddhists who are not monks and have not sworn themselves to celibacy—are expected not to engage in “sexual misconduct.” However, some modern scholars, pointing out that homosexuality is not explicitly mentioned in any of the Buddha’s sayings, have pushed to have same-sex sexual behavior evaluated on the Universality Principle, or the Golden Rule: “How would I like it if someone did this to me?”

The Dalai Lama’s statements come on the heels of another religious leader’s mellowing on the issue of same-sex relationships: On Wednesday, Pope Francis called on the Catholic Church and its leaders to explore civil unions and how they provide for the economic security and well-being of same-sex couples.

[Tenzin K]

Due to the ambivalent language about homosexuality in Buddhist teachings, there has been no official stance put forth regarding the issue of marriage between members of the same gender.

There is no objection of the Buddha found in the Tipitaka. Buddha was neither supportive nor against marriages between members of the same gender. Also, from the Tipitaka, it is clear that the Buddha acknowledged the difference between hermaphrodites and homosexual practitioners. Hermaphrodites and eunuchs are not allowed to be ordained, but there is no sanction against homosexuality. As for the lay homosexual people, Buddha gave no rule or advice as to whether they should be allowed to marry or not.

Buddha posted himself simply as the one who shows the way. He did not insist that he had any right to enforce on others what they should do. With this principle, the original teachings of the Buddha do not cover social ceremonies or rituals. Weddings and marriages of all kinds are regarded as mundane and have no place in Buddhism.

On October 11, 1995, some religious leaders gave testimony to the Commission on Sexual Orientation and the Law in support of same-gender marriages. Robert Aitken, co-founder and teacher of the Honolulu Diamond Sangha, a Zen Buddhist society established in 1959, with centers in Manoa and Palolo, gave written testimony on the subject of same-sex marriage. Aitken explains that by applying the Four Noble Abodes (loving kindness, compassion, joy in the attainment of others, and equanimity) to the issue of same-sex marriage, he finds compassion for and with the gay or lesbian couple who wish to confirm their love in a legal marriage. Aitken cites a precept about sex which Zen Buddhists inherit from earlier classical Buddhists teachings.

It is one of the sixteen precepts accepted by all Zen Buddhist monks, nuns and seriously committed lay people. He understands this to mean that self-centered sexual conduct is inappropriate, and he vows to avoid it. He believes that self-centered sex is exploitive sex, non-consensual sex, sex that harms others. It is unwholesome and destructive in a heterosexual as well as in a homosexual context. He goes on to explain that The Legislative Reference Bureau compiled a formidable list of rights that are extended to married couples in Hawai'i, but which are denied to couples who are gay and lesbian.

He argues that gay and lesbian unions would be "settled even more" if they were acknowledged with basic married rights. Aitken says, "A long-standing injustice would be corrected, and the entire gay and lesbian community would feel more accepted. This would stabilize a significant segment of our society, and we would all of us be better able to acknowledge our diversity. I urge you to advise the Legislature and the people of Hawai'i that legalizing gay and lesbian marriages will be humane and in keeping with perenniel principles of decency and mutual encouragement.

[Manjushri]

I see a change of mind again by His Holiness. First he was against same sex relationships, labelling it as sexual misconduct and being unacceptable from a Buddhist point of view. And now, it is okay if the people involved are okay. Just like how His Holiness was okay with the practise of Dorje Shugden and then later, against it. These are big 'issues' to change your mind about.

As for me, gay or straight, I think it is alright because at the end of the day, love is love. Being gay doesn't mean that you are less of a person than one who is straight. As long as respect, kindness, honesty etc. can be shown to one another, then I think it's fine.

[lightning]

Hi Fellow Dharma Frds, it has been long since I have spoken in this website as I find the Dharma presented seems to be a little deviated or off the course. I Have consulted the matter on Homosexual, I have consulted my Guru and He replied that sexual relationship between same sex is considered sexual miscounduct as abnormal sexual intercourse like anal or mouth is involved. At that point of time, I felt slightly awoke from the simple answer provided.
 Please kindly consult your OWN GURUs for answers when in doubts, look for renowned & reliable lamas like GKG, Gangchan Lama, Gonsar Rinpoche etc etc. and DO NOT depend on layman answers which are most of the time INCORRECT which suits their interest and deviate from the truth presented by Buddha's teachings! From our lineage masters, did we hear anyone are manifested as gay or lesbian got enlightened? Can anyone name any such lineage masters manifest as homosexual to convince me that homosexual sex is okay? I am not saying that they cannot practice dharma, as we have to shred the ego of self and perceive the same emptiness as the enlightened beings. Until true perceiving of emptiness is attained, will the inherent negative characteristic trait will be corrected. I sympathized these people as these characteristic trait is as a result of negative karma manifested.
There are times that I have been rebuked by many that I am wrong. Does it mean that we should rely on answers by MANY people or rely on the answers from FEW enlightened ones? As for HHDL, sometimes he manifested by giving some unreliable answers.
Please DUN cloud young and weak with our mundane and unenlightened thinking, but always preach and practice whatever our Gurus who had passed down to us.

Another example that someone debated that they can tattoo DS on their body as a respect or reminder. But I remembered my Guru told me after getting empowerment, a yogist's body has become as same as Vairocana Buddha body and yogist must treat his/her body with respect. No piercing ears, no tatoo, no cosmetic surgery etc is to cause bodily harm or else sidhhis or good fruits will not be attained. There are many here are upset with my explanation and my kind intention to help. They debated their way to align to their interest until some senior practitioners to speak up.

I hope that we will preserve the Buddha's authentic teachings and stick to traditions and stick to our own Guru's advice and not leaded by the blind. If many are not listening with filtering and wisdom. I am not going to share any comments any more in future.

Thank you

[lightning]

It is sad and hurt to see Buddha's teachings especially the essence of Buddha teachings presented by Je Tsong Kha Pa are tainted.

[kris]

I have heard a Lama gave a teaching on related matters:

1) Regardless marriage or relationship, the problem is not about the other person is same sex or different sex. Instead, the problem is attachment to the relationship or the person. If you are very attached to the other person, doesn't matter if it is different or same sex, it will affect our spiritual advancement. From this, I can see that both Lamas do not object same sex marriage, because the problem is not about same sex or not, but the attachment itself.

2) It was said in the tantra that when male and female genitalia in contact, they create a good energy flow. But when genitalia are in the other places, the energy does not flow and eventually, it may cause anger in long run (it is not guarantee it will cause anger though). So it is advised not engage in not "normal" sex.

[Big Uncle]

Hi Fellow Dharma Frds, it has been long since I have spoken in this website as I find the Dharma presented seems to be a little deviated or off the course. I Have consulted the matter on Homosexual, I have consulted my Guru and He replied that sexual relationship between same sex is considered sexual miscounduct as abnormal sexual intercourse like anal or mouth is involved. At that point of time, I felt slightly awoke from the simple answer provided.
 Please kindly consult your OWN GURUs for answers when in doubts, look for renowned & reliable lamas like GKG, Gangchan Lama, Gonsar Rinpoche etc etc. and DO NOT depend on layman answers which are most of the time INCORRECT which suits their interest and deviate from the truth presented by Buddha's teachings! From our lineage masters, did we hear anyone are manifested as gay or lesbian got enlightened? Can anyone name any such lineage masters manifest as homosexual to convince me that homosexual sex is okay? I am not saying that they cannot practice dharma, as we have to shred the ego of self and perceive the same emptiness as the enlightened beings. Until true perceiving of emptiness is attained, will the inherent negative characteristic trait will be corrected. I sympathized these people as these characteristic trait is as a result of negative karma manifested.
There are times that I have been rebuked by many that I am wrong. Does it mean that we should rely on answers by MANY people or rely on the answers from FEW enlightened ones? As for HHDL, sometimes he manifested by giving some unreliable answers.
Please DUN cloud young and weak with our mundane and unenlightened thinking, but always preach and practice whatever our Gurus who had passed down to us.

Another example that someone debated that they can tattoo DS on their body as a respect or reminder. But I remembered my Guru told me after getting empowerment, a yogist's body has become as same as Vairocana Buddha body and yogist must treat his/her body with respect. No piercing ears, no tatoo, no cosmetic surgery etc is to cause bodily harm or else sidhhis or good fruits will not be attained. There are many here are upset with my explanation and my kind intention to help. They debated their way to align to their interest until some senior practitioners to speak up.

I hope that we will preserve the Buddha's authentic teachings and stick to traditions and stick to our own Guru's advice and not leaded by the blind. If many are not listening with filtering and wisdom. I am not going to share any comments any more in future.

Thank you

Dear lightning,

Thank you for sharing and please tell us why do you think that the "Dharma presented (here) seems to be a little deviated or off the course"? That is a very serious allegation and should be addressed if found to be valid.

Also, please tell us who is your teacher that says homosexual sex is misconduct. Please state your source when making such statements. An explanation from him as to why it is misconduct would be excellent as well and preferably not from your own interpretation of this matter.

Thank you. For now, I would stick to the Dalai Lama's open acceptance of homosexuality.

[bambi]

For me, the issue here is not about the same sex marriage. Its about HHDL. One day, He says ok, then another day, He changes His mind and people just follow without checking. Yes, follow your Guru all the way but we must also check and not have blind faith.
So does this mean, tomorrow, He will say His peace-and-loving message 'Its ok for you to practice Dorje Shugden. No problem.' 

[lightning]

Hi Fellow Dharma Frds, it has been long since I have spoken in this website as I find the Dharma presented seems to be a little deviated or off the course. I Have consulted the matter on Homosexual, I have consulted my Guru and He replied that sexual relationship between same sex is considered sexual miscounduct as abnormal sexual intercourse like anal or mouth is involved. At that point of time, I felt slightly awoke from the simple answer provided.
 Please kindly consult your OWN GURUs for answers when in doubts, look for renowned & reliable lamas like GKG, Gangchan Lama, Gonsar Rinpoche etc etc. and DO NOT depend on layman answers which are most of the time INCORRECT which suits their interest and deviate from the truth presented by Buddha's teachings! From our lineage masters, did we hear anyone are manifested as gay or lesbian got enlightened? Can anyone name any such lineage masters manifest as homosexual to convince me that homosexual sex is okay? I am not saying that they cannot practice dharma, as we have to shred the ego of self and perceive the same emptiness as the enlightened beings. Until true perceiving of emptiness is attained, will the inherent negative characteristic trait will be corrected. I sympathized these people as these characteristic trait is as a result of negative karma manifested.
There are times that I have been rebuked by many that I am wrong. Does it mean that we should rely on answers by MANY people or rely on the answers from FEW enlightened ones? As for HHDL, sometimes he manifested by giving some unreliable answers.
Please DUN cloud young and weak with our mundane and unenlightened thinking, but always preach and practice whatever our Gurus who had passed down to us.

Another example that someone debated that they can tattoo DS on their body as a respect or reminder. But I remembered my Guru told me after getting empowerment, a yogist's body has become as same as Vairocana Buddha body and yogist must treat his/her body with respect. No piercing ears, no tatoo, no cosmetic surgery etc is to cause bodily harm or else sidhhis or good fruits will not be attained. There are many here are upset with my explanation and my kind intention to help. They debated their way to align to their interest until some senior practitioners to speak up.

I hope that we will preserve the Buddha's authentic teachings and stick to traditions and stick to our own Guru's advice and not leaded by the blind. If many are not listening with filtering and wisdom. I am not going to share any comments any more in future.

Thank you

Dear lightning,

Thank you for sharing and please tell us why do you think that the "Dharma presented (here) seems to be a little deviated or off the course"? That is a very serious allegation and should be addressed if found to be valid.

Also, please tell us who is your teacher that says homosexual sex is misconduct. Please state your source when making such statements. An explanation from him as to why it is misconduct would be excellent as well and preferably not from your own interpretation of this matter.

Thank you. For now, I would stick to the Dalai Lama's open acceptance of homosexuality.

Dear Big Uncle,
I have consulted with my own Guru and it is NOT a serious allegation as My Guru have answered to me with a slight frown on his face. Please consult with your Guru or someone of Dharma King level for for valid answers.

[lightning]

Dear Big Uncle,

There is five primary vows and sexual misconduct is one of them and if certain Guru required that He/ She must fulfilled all the 5 primary vows in taking highest yoga empowerment. Do you think homosexual can avoid taking it? and He/she has sexual relationship and he/she will transgress the vow taken. Does this make some sense? My Guru is amongst the picture as loaded by the admin, if you want some assurance of my answers. I am not discriminating against anyone but just pointing out true facts. We must spread true Dharma as pass down by our own Guru's instructions NOT our own thinking and with biased agenda. Please provide me of answers from your Guru or someone like Venerable GKG

[lightning]

Dear Big Uncle,
If you want to stick to Dalai Lama's answer is fine with me, but sometimes I find his answers can be as flippant like flip flop pan cake. As an admin, please get answers from valid source before sticking to some advice from HHDL, if not your answers may end up misleading others. I prefer to stick to my own root Guru's advice and I advice likewise for the rest of us

[lightning]

Dear Big Uncle,
I truly accept homosexual as a human being, and if they want to get married, I rather take a neutral stand of neither encouraging (For reasons of not rejoicing of any bad karma) nor discouraging.  But when comes to being Vajrayana practitioner, especially those who are taking highest yoga tantra, it is total different story. There is to be a line drawn between what one can do before and after empowerment especially when one is a Highest Yoga Tantra practitioner. If one is misleading these class of people, imagine the amount of heavy karma accrued in doing so???

[lightning]

I have heard a Lama gave a teaching on related matters:

1) Regardless marriage or relationship, the problem is not about the other person is same sex or different sex. Instead, the problem is attachment to the relationship or the person. If you are very attached to the other person, doesn't matter if it is different or same sex, it will affect our spiritual advancement. From this, I can see that both Lamas do not object same sex marriage, because the problem is not about same sex or not, but the attachment itself.

2) It was said in the tantra that when male and female genitalia in contact, they create a good energy flow. But when genitalia are in the other places, the energy does not flow and eventually, it may cause anger in long run (it is not guarantee it will cause anger though). So it is advised not engage in not "normal" sex.

Thanks for speaking out Kris, I have been seeing too much "encouraging signs" of same sex relationship found here. I felt uneasy and rather speak out from my mind with intention of correcting.

[DS Star]

In term of spiritual growth, what is the significant of 'marriage'? None.

Unlike the religions based on "ultra-moralistic judeo-christian principles" (to borrow from Wisdom Being), for common Buddhists, marriage will most probably increase one's attachment and has no direct contribution to one's spiritual growth.

In Buddha's teachings, the most important factors for one to achieve ultimate happiness, i.e. to be freed of suffering and cyclic existence, is depending on one's mind and actions.

Based on the Law of Karma (the Law of Cause and Effect), we are all responsible for our own actions, in term of morality and other aspects. Thus the morality aspect in Buddhists' principle does not require 'approval' or 'permission' from Divine or 'God' via a spiritual 'office' or 'police' to stay together as a couple.

Married or not, as long as one is loyal, honest and not hurting one's partner by cheating on her/him, one is not violating any rules or vows.

So whether HHDL 'OK' or 'NOT OK' with gay marriage, it will not increase one's merits or blessings and not contributing anything for one to achieve the ultimate goal of enlightenment.

This 'approval' is more for society's acceptance and for one's worldly concerns. Nothing more, actually....

[yontenjamyang]

In term of spiritual growth, what is the significant of 'marriage'? None.

Unlike the religions based on "ultra-moralistic judeo-christian principles" (to borrow from Wisdom Being), for common Buddhists, marriage will most probably increase one's attachment and has no direct contribution to one's spiritual growth.

In Buddha's teachings, the most important factors for one to achieve ultimate happiness, i.e. to be freed of suffering and cyclic existence, is depending on one's mind and actions.

Based on the Law of Karma (the Law of Cause and Effect), we are all responsible for our own actions, in term of morality and other aspects. Thus the morality aspect in Buddhists' principle does not require 'approval' or 'permission' from Divine or 'God' via a spiritual 'office' or 'police' to stay together as a couple.

Married or not, as long as one is loyal, honest and not hurting one's partner by cheating on her/him, one is not violating any rules or vows.

So whether HHDL 'OK' or 'NOT OK' with gay marriage, it will not increase one's merits or blessings and not contributing anything for one to achieve the ultimate goal of enlightenment.

This 'approval' is more for society's acceptance and for one's worldly concerns. Nothing more, actually....

Early Buddhism seems to be silent on homosexuality. However the Buddha mentioned that there are 3 gender ie male, female, the in-betweens. In the in-between category there are the male-and-male, female-female and the hermaphrodites. The Sangha are prohibited to have sex at all.

The Buddha's proscriptions against certain types of people joining the monastic sangha (ordained community) are often understood to reflect his concern with upholding the public image of the sangha as virtuous; in some cases, this is explicitly stated. Social acceptability was vital for the sangha, as it could not survive without material support from lay society.

However, I feel the Dalai Lama's acceptance of same sex marriage are more in line with the modern acceptance of it by many especially in the West. 

I agree with DS Star's position on marriage in Buddhism as just another attachment to a person, sex and the household/family which in Buddhism are something we should let go of. But since, most lay Buddhist chose to marry, marriage is the normality and in this age , same sex marriage are also becoming more common.