Author Topic: Gelug examination / Winter Debating Session issue  (Read 3327 times)

Admin

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Gelug examination / Winter Debating Session issue
« on: December 04, 2007, 03:53:08 AM »
Voice of Tibet Radio (Norway)

The transcribe of Voice of Tibet Radio on November 23, 2007

Broadcaster: This is Norway Voice of Tibet. We offer prostration to His Holiness the Dalai Lama, the great protector, Nobel Laureate, and supreme leader of religion and politics of six millions Tibetans living in and outside Tibet, and extend Tashi Dele greeting to six millions Tibetan living in and outside Tibet.

Broadcaster:  We were explained that no one would participate in the Winter Debating Session and the Examination of Gelug Tradition with Dholgyal (Dorje Shugden) followers. Our reporter Sonam Yangzom, based in South India, is going to explain you in detail about the news.

Yangzom: On November 22, 2007, Gen Lobsang Choedhar, the disciplinarian of Sera-Jay monastery known as Khenyeng Dratsang, and Gen. Thupten Choepal, the monk of Tsangpa house, convened a press conference. The campaign of collecting signature declaring that they never attend together with Dholgyal followers the Winter Debating Session, Gelug Examination and Great Prayer Festival was initiated on 17 of this very month. We were explained that three thousands monks from Sera-Jay monastery have consented to the signature campaign.

Disciplinarian: The gist of the signature collection is: we never take part in Gelug examination with Dholgyal followers; we never take part in Winter Debating Session with Dholgyal followers; and we never take part in Great Prayer festival with Dholgyal followers. Because, the abbots have convened in Sera Lachi in 1998. Tri Rinpoche was also present. It was already taken a decision in their present. The gist of that (the decision) is: we will relinquish relationship with those who didn't give up the worship of Dholgyal. An example was cited: there will be separation of water and separation of province. (it implies segregation in Tibetan saying)  And differentiating between mouth and its beard. (Suggesting discrimination and segregation).  We cut off the relationship completely. It was already resolved at that time. Even thought the decision was taken, no one was able to execute the decision up to now. As this is required to be executed, we took up the initiative. Probably, afraid of Dholgyal followers, no one could stand up. There is nothing to be afraid. The process of signature is a human right. They always voice that they need human rights and right of speech, and that they need religious freedom. The signature campaign conducted by our own monks is personal right. We do not act against law. We do not act against the constitution of the country. To appeal for signature collection is not against the constitution of the nation. Therefore, by this reason, I have decided to collect signature.

Broadcaster: Gen Thupten Choepel said that this very signature collection is not something newly created. This aims to execute the decisions taken by the abbots of Gelugpa tradition, and to achieve a part of instructions and intention of H.H. the Dalai Lama.

Choepel: The main point in our actual initiative: we say we will execute the resolutions passed regarding Dholgyal in Sera Lachi in 1998. It is the main point of the movement. This is not something new. If a problem arises from it, I will tell you where the problem comes from. This comes from the resolution passed on January 1, 1998. Apart from that, there is no other problem. Here is the instruction by the Dalai Lama. In the page number 4 (referring to his press release), reads: ...we aim to achieve a part of instructions relating to that by the Dalai Lama.  In terms of religion and politics, it is shocking... There are many internal and external diseases which is detrimental to our religion and politics. This is a urgent matter, as the heard disease is most serious among the diseases. I think it becomes urgent in terms of Tibet cause and so on. The Dalai Lama......

Manjushri

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Re: Gelug examination / Winter Debating Session issue
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 04:38:24 AM »
I do not think that there should be a need in segretation; between the Dholgyal practitioners and those who dont.

It's discrimination - forming a segretation between two different beliefs is discrimination. It is exactly like if one believes in islam and someone else in Buddhism, but they are not allowed to be at the same place at the same time together, because of thier choice in beliefs and faith. Isn't religion supposed to bring harmony, to bring peace, love and togetherness? Why create the disharmony.

Collection of signatures to stop other people of different beliefs to be at a place together, I feel is not right. If signatures are collected for human right issues, then fair enough, but now signatures are collected to jusitfy the non-association between Dholgyal practitioners and non Dholgyal practitioners.

I understand that people dont want to go against the instructions of the Dalai Lama, but I thought the core essence in Buddhism was harmony? This situation has created much grief and disturbed the minds of so many, is this really religious practice?

thor

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Re: Gelug examination / Winter Debating Session issue
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2011, 09:16:33 AM »
I do not think that there should be a need in segretation; between the Dholgyal practitioners and those who dont.

It's discrimination - forming a segretation between two different beliefs is discrimination. It is exactly like if one believes in islam and someone else in Buddhism, but they are not allowed to be at the same place at the same time together, because of thier choice in beliefs and faith. Isn't religion supposed to bring harmony, to bring peace, love and togetherness? Why create the disharmony.

Collection of signatures to stop other people of different beliefs to be at a place together, I feel is not right. If signatures are collected for human right issues, then fair enough, but now signatures are collected to jusitfy the non-association between Dholgyal practitioners and non Dholgyal practitioners.

I understand that people dont want to go against the instructions of the Dalai Lama, but I thought the core essence in Buddhism was harmony? This situation has created much grief and disturbed the minds of so many, is this really religious practice?

The ban on Dorje Shugden has seemingly reduced the monastery communications to something that looks like a farce of what Tibetan Buddhism really should be. The highlight of the disciplinarian's speech is that
"we never take part in Gelug examination with Dholgyal followers"
"we never take part in Winter Debating Session with Dholgyal followers"
"we never take part in Great Prayer festival with Dholgyal followers."

This is the result of a schism in the Sangha, where one party follows the Dalai Lama's advice blindly, which another party holds their guru devotion sacred and keeps the commitments they have made.

Instead of wasting time signing petitions and collecting signatures, the time should be better used for the study, practice, rituals, etc which is the reason why we have Sangha in the first place

shugdenpromoter

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Re: Gelug examination / Winter Debating Session issue
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2011, 07:03:47 PM »

Instead of wasting time signing petitions and collecting signatures, the time should be better used for the study, practice, rituals, etc which is the reason why we have Sangha in the first place

I agree with Thor. Why waste time in signing petition and etc. Signing petition between the non-association between Dholgyal practitioners and non Dholgyal practitioners is so ridiculous. Sigh!!! Tibetan are already such a small community and by doing this, they become even smaller.

Anyway, I've come across so many petition regarding FREE TIBET over the last 5 years......Tons of email plus communication has been sent out BUT WHERE IS THE RESULT? Tibet is still NOT FREE.



DharmaDefender

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Re: Gelug examination / Winter Debating Session issue
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2011, 09:20:52 PM »
Instead of wasting time signing petitions and collecting signatures, the time should be better used for the study, practice, rituals, etc which is the reason why we have Sangha in the first place

Funny that, spending time looking for proof of how divided the Tibetan people are, rather than working to unite everyone. I wonder if the CCCP fat cats are quietly sniggering away at how theyve beaten the Tibetan people in the last two decades without even lifting a finger.

I dont know about you lot but whenever my lamas consult the Protector via the oracle, hes always got the same answer - HARMONY. He always says that with harmony, all things will happen... harmony and working together makes him very happy so he (Dorje Shugden) will help. The Tibetans are dividing themselves so what makes them think theyll create the causes to get anything good, and especially to get Tibet back?

Barzin

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Re: Gelug examination / Winter Debating Session issue
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2011, 10:15:09 AM »
This is totally absurd.  The monks are entitled to monastery studies and practices accordingly to the lineage and their gurus respectively, so having exams are inevitable!  To me it sounded very childish, it sounds like "I don't want to play with you no more".  All the segregation is totally unnecessary.    I mean in general, the ban has caused so much issues world wide, Tibet is losing its country, the Sangha community are divided, the people are bringing Shugden practitioner down, even violence.  So i think there is a bigger issue that to announce a segregation in exam.  This is the generation who needs many elite dharma teachers for the near future.  By implementing this kind of rules and regulations only create dharma to degenerate, not to even mention the amount of negative karma collected from a spiritual perceptive.

So silly really.