Author Topic: The real Nechung was a strong advocate of Dorje Shugden  (Read 13409 times)

vajratruth

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The real Nechung was a strong advocate of Dorje Shugden
« on: October 04, 2013, 01:09:43 AM »
The relationship between Nechung, (whose oracle takes trace of Pehar and his Prime Minister Dorje Drakden) and Dorje Shugden is an interesting one. Recall that it was Nechung/Pehar who appeared before Duldzin Drakpa Gyaltsen in the form of a white dove to urge Duldzin Drakpa to manifest as a special protector to guard Je Tsongkhapa’s precious teachings, especially on Nagajurna’s Madhyamaka.  Duldzin Drakpa Gyaltsen agreed and Nechung/Pehar later reminded Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen of the promise he made in his previous life as Duldzin Drakpa Gyaltsen and pledged to help Tulku Drakpa to arise as a wrathful protector. In brief, this was how Dorje Shugden came about.

But it seems Nechung/Pehar’s association with Dorje Shugden went beyond that. Initially, Dorje Shugden was thought of as an evil spirit and attempts were made to exorcise Dorje Shugden but to no avail. Eventually the Fifth Dalai Lama sought the help of several renowned Nyingma lamas, amongst whom was Terdak Lingpa, the head of Mindrolling Monastery famous for its powerful fire pujas. Terdak Lingpa apparently lured Dorje Shugden into a ladle and just before Dorje Shugden was about to be submitted to the flames, the Dharma protector Dorje Setrap rescued him and thus foiled Terdak Lingpa’s attempt to subjugate Shugden.



Pic1: Dorje Setrap also known as White Brahma

What is interesting is that Setrap is associated with the Tibetan form of the Indian god, Brahma as stated in a 2007 University of Florida dissertation on the subject of Dorje Shugden (page 20, http://etd.lib.fsu.edu/theses/available/etd-04092007-003235/unrestricted/lgm_thesis.pdf ). Separately but similarly Setrap has also been identified as White Brahma by the curators of Himalayan Art Resources (http://www.himalayanart.org/image.cfm/89160.html). Brahma the Indian god, in turn, is also known as by its Tibetan identity, Tsangpa Karpo. What makes this link fascinating is that in Nebesky-Wojkowitz’s Oracles and Demons Of Tibet, widely regarded as an authority on the subject of Tibetan gods and spirits, the author concluded on page 145 that “This god [Tsangpa Karpo], however, is supposed to be nobody else than Pe har…” In other words, Nechung/Pehar who is the State protector of Tibet and in whom the present Dalai Lama places considerable trust, not only helped Dorje Shugden to arise as a most important Protector of Tsongkhapa’s Teachings, but also protected Dorje Shugden from premature harm, knowing full well who Dorje Shugden truly is and the vital importance of Dorje Shugden’s role in the preservation of the Dharma. These findings are in stark contrast with the picture that the Dalai Lama and CTA have painted, i.e. that of the State Dharma Protector opposing the worship of Shugden as a harmful demon.



Pic2: Tsangpa Karpo. White in colour (gold painted) with one face and two hands he holds upraised in the right a curved sword and in the left a vajra-tipped lasso and lance. Attired in the garb of a wariour, the head is crowned with a helmet topped with a white conch shell and peacock feathers. In the middle of the chest, marked with the Tibetan letter 'hrih,' is a golden mirror. Riding atop a dark brown horse, he is surrounded by flames of various colour and dark rolling smoke.At the top center is the buddha Amitabha with the hands in meditation holding a begging bowl. A lama wearing a yellow hat sits directly below. At the top right is Padmasambhava. At the left is the 5th Dalai Lama holding a single white lotus in the right hand, wearing a yellow hat and meditation cloak. Various retinue figures fill the foreground.



Pic3: Page 145 of Nebesky-Wojkowitz's Oracles And Demons Of Tibet which reads: This god, however, is supposed to be nobody else than Pe har..."

That Nechung/Pehar would protect Dorje Shugden makes complete sense especially when we consider the fact that Dorje Shugden is also found to be the Dharma Protector waiting at the southern gate of Nechung Monastery waiting to take over as the main Dharma Protector of our time as Nechung enters into enlightenment for having served the Dharma since swearing the oath to Padmasambava. (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/why-is-nechung-reluctant-to-speak/). Rene’ De Nebesky-Wojkowitz concluded this based on extensive research which he published in 1956, way before the subject of Dorje Shugden became politicized in the 1980’s by the Dalai Lama. These findings therefore, were based on facts and untainted by any political agenda. The same findings were recently reaffirmed by Christopher Bell of the University Of Virginia in the 2013 publication of Nechung – The Ritual History And Institutionalization Of A Tibetan Buddhist Protector Deity  (http://libra.virginia.edu/catalog/libra-oa:3281)

Given Nechung/Pehar’s great efforts, assistance and Dharmic interest in the rise of Dorje Shugden as this era’s main Dharma Protector, it would make no sense for Nechung/Pehar to declare Dorje Shugden as a harmful spirit which should be destroyed. The opposite suggestion would be more plausible. The question that this begs is, who has the Dalai Lama and CTA been listening to, when they claimed that it was Nechung who advised against the practice of Dorje Shugden? The real Nechung, made culprit for an unholy ban, was indisputably a very strong advocate of Dorje Shugden.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 02:16:39 AM by vajratruth »

DharmaSpace

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Re: The real Nechung was a strong advocate of Dorje Shugden
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2013, 09:52:22 AM »
There seem to the 3 dharma protectors involved in this controversy surrounding Dorje Shudgen.

One is Dorje SHugden of course there is also Nechung and also Setrap. Nechung is the one who first approached Duldzin and many livetimes later when Duldzin reincarnated as Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen, created the circumstances for Dorje Shugden to manifest.

Setrap came to the 'rescue' of Dorje Shugden when Dorje Shugden first appeared. Setrap is unmistakable as Amithabha emanation  and is an old protector brought from India to Tibet. If Setrap was in Nalanda with the Indian pandits we can be assured that Setrap was an enlightened. And Nechung manifesting mistakes and inaccuracies was just part of the plan.... coz if Setrap and Dorje Shugden realises Nechung was creating harm then they would be able to stop nechung to do harm further.   

vajratruth

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Re: The real Nechung was a strong advocate of Dorje Shugden
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2013, 01:45:14 PM »
There seem to the 3 dharma protectors involved in this controversy surrounding Dorje Shudgen.

One is Dorje SHugden of course there is also Nechung and also Setrap. Nechung is the one who first approached Duldzin and many livetimes later when Duldzin reincarnated as Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen, created the circumstances for Dorje Shugden to manifest.

Setrap came to the 'rescue' of Dorje Shugden when Dorje Shugden first appeared. Setrap is unmistakable as Amithabha emanation  and is an old protector brought from India to Tibet. If Setrap was in Nalanda with the Indian pandits we can be assured that Setrap was an enlightened. And Nechung manifesting mistakes and inaccuracies was just part of the plan.... coz if Setrap and Dorje Shugden realises Nechung was creating harm then they would be able to stop nechung to do harm further.   

Dear DharmaSpace,

I agree with your thoughts. But what do you make out of the Western scholars' view of the relationship between Dorje Setrap and Nechung? Your thoughts? Thanks.

fruven

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Re: The real Nechung was a strong advocate of Dorje Shugden
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 12:34:23 AM »
What is interesting is that Setrap is associated with the Tibetan form of the Indian god, Brahma as stated in a 2007 University of Florida dissertation on the subject of Dorje Shugden (page 20, http://etd.lib.fsu.edu/theses/available/etd-04092007-003235/unrestricted/lgm_thesis.pdf ). Separately but similarly Setrap has also been identified as White Brahma by the curators of Himalayan Art Resources (http://www.himalayanart.org/image.cfm/89160.html). Brahma the Indian god, in turn, is also known as by its Tibetan identity, Tsangpa Karpo. What makes this link fascinating is that in Nebesky-Wojkowitz’s Oracles and Demons Of Tibet, widely regarded as an authority on the subject of Tibetan gods and spirits, the author concluded on page 145 that “This god [Tsangpa Karpo], however, is supposed to be nobody else than Pe har…” In other words, Nechung/Pehar who is the State protector of Tibet and in whom the present Dalai Lama places considerable trust, not only helped Dorje Shugden to arise as a most important Protector of Tsongkhapa’s Teachings, but also protected Dorje Shugden from premature harm, knowing full well who Dorje Shugden truly is and the vital importance of Dorje Shugden’s role in the preservation of the Dharma. These findings are in stark contrast with the picture that the Dalai Lama and CTA have painted, i.e. that of the State Dharma Protector opposing the worship of Shugden as a harmful demon.


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This god [Tsangpa Karpo], however, is supposed to be nobody else than Pe har...


Tsangpa Karpo, Lord Setrap, is Pehar? Or in other words Pehar was an emanation of Lord Setrap? Am I hearing it correctly? It is becoming quite complicated or we are finally reaching the end of the tunnel. From beginning till end Lord Setrap has been involved in this. Pehar is enlightened to begin with???

Hmm... now it does make sense in some logical way. A strategic plan, you could call it a drama, involving so many parties to get sentient being to become enlightened. Any enlightened being would not hesitate to in a join effort to fulfilling their promise to lead all sentient beings to enlightenment.

fruven

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Re: The real Nechung was a strong advocate of Dorje Shugden
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 05:52:09 PM »
Nechung has a shoe imprint on his hat to be reminded of his promise to Guru Rinpoche.
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the costume of Nechung oracle has the shoe imprint of Guru Rinpoche on its hat piece to symbolize that he is under oath to Guru Rinpoche.

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1480.0

Interestingly Dharmaphala Setrap also has a shoe to his crown.
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As a proof of a being a devoted protector of Buddhism, Setrap Protector actually sew Guru Rinpoche’s shoe to his crown when he renewed his vow as a proof.

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=2992.5

Big Uncle

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Re: The real Nechung was a strong advocate of Dorje Shugden
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 08:16:24 AM »
Actually, I think if you are connecting Pehar and Setrap. There's no real connection because Setrap is an emanation of Amitabha and is therefore an emanation of a fully enlightened Being while Pehar is unenlightened but is on the brink of enlightenment hence, the prophecy of the changing of the guardians - http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/universal-protector-of-future-buddhism/. However, this does not take away from the fact that Nechung/Pehar is a great supporter and the main reason for Dorje Shugden to arise.

In Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors, page 109 further elaborates about Nechung's proclamation and connection with Dorje Shugden :-
 
It  would  appear  that  the  name,  'Dorje  Shugden  Tsel',  Mighty  Dorje  Shugden, was also given by the Great Dharma King Nechung. As said in the Sakya  edition  of  the  wrathful  torma  ritual  for  Shugden  that  Sachen  Kunga  Lodro  composed…

As for this method, there was an incarnate Lama contemporary with the Great  Fifth  Dalai  Lama  by  the  name  of  Tulku  who  was  renowned  to  be  the  incarnation  of  Panchen  Sonam  Dragpa  who  had  broad  eyes  of  wisdom  in  upholding  the  teachings.  Others  became  jealous  of  his  activities.  He  died  because  of  sudden  bad  circumstances,  during  a  moment  of  unhappiness,  and because  of  the  bad  passing,  for  about  one  month,  sounds  such  as  that  of  being  squeezed  came  out  of  the  silver  reliquary  stupas  into  which  his  relics  had  been  placed.  Therefore,  the  relics  were  removed  and  his  house  was  destroyed. The wood was thrown into the river and came to the White Spring  of  Dol.    They  remained  there  so  that  the  damsi,  the  commitment  spirit,  became widely renowned as Dol Gyal, the King of Dol. He escaped from among  many  who  sought  to  suppress,  burn,  and  expel  him,  even  showing  signs  in  some  cases.  Whether  he  was  a  pure  king  spirit  or  the  risen  deceased,  when  there was nothing else to do about it but include him in the legacy, the Great  Dharmapala Nechung said, 

   'No one can compete with him!  He is the one called Dorje Shugden Tsel,  The Mighty One Endowed With Vajra    Strength!'   
 
Thinking  about  the  name  he  used,  'Dorje',  Vajra,  as  in  the  context  of  Vajrayana,  we  can  infer  that  he  does  not  seem  to  be  a  protector  that  was  bound  to  oath  and  named  by  glorious  Hayagriva  or  Guru  Rinpoche.    Scholars  and yogis, please check!


vajratruth

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Re: The real Nechung was a strong advocate of Dorje Shugden
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 09:01:26 PM »
Actually, I think if you are connecting Pehar and Setrap. There's no real connection because Setrap is an emanation of Amitabha and is therefore an emanation of a fully enlightened Being while Pehar is unenlightened but is on the brink of enlightenment hence, the prophecy of the changing of the guardians - http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/universal-protector-of-future-buddhism/. However, this does not take away from the fact that Nechung/Pehar is a great supporter and the main reason for Dorje Shugden to arise.



Thank you Big Uncle. My understanding of the nature of Setrap concurs with yours. In that case, what do you make out of the conclusion of the various scholars I cited in the post that alluded to the relationship between Setrap and Pehar?

From the perspective that Setrap is an enlightened being and Pehar is not (as far as is known thus far), it may be a stretch to relate Setrap to Pehar. However, would it change the underlying logic if we were to assume for a moment, that Nechung/Pehar is an enlightened being after all, as Trijang Rinpoche's Music Delighting An Ocean Of Protectors alluded to.

Your further thoughts on this BU?

Thanks

brian

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Re: The real Nechung was a strong advocate of Dorje Shugden
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2013, 11:04:21 AM »
I feel Nechung in one way or another is an enlightened being for he already served the Dharma and the Dalai Lama so well. Whatever transpired on claims that Nechung actually is one of the party who declared Dorje Shugden to be a harmful spirit remains to be debatable. There are already massive reasons being dished out which everyone can read and get from this website as to whether Dorje Shugden is really a spirit or actually a Buddha.

Question is, I feel Nechung and Dalai Lama's claim of Dorje Shugden's status as a spirit must have something far more important behind it. If Dorje Shugden is a spirit, why would the Dalai Lama himself, the emanation of Chenrizig would cobsult a spirit Nechung for all matters. Why would Nechung who in the first place is the one who emanated as a dove flying from the sky to come and  requested Dulzin Drakpa Gyaltsen to be a wrathful protector guardian of Lama Tsongkhapa's teachings?

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: The real Nechung was a strong advocate of Dorje Shugden
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2015, 09:59:52 AM »
Personally I have read a lot and heard a lot about these three Dharma Protectors.  Of which Dorje Shugden and Setrap are enlightened Protectors and Nechung had been a protector since he was subdued by Guru Rinpoche and had been under oath to protect the Dharma for a long long time.

At the point of arising of Dorje Shugden, both these two protectors played important and pivotal roles.  Nechung evoked the promise from Dragpa Duldzin to become a protector and Setrap assisted Dorje Shugden out of the ladle of Terdak Lingpa.  Therefore it is only logical that there is a big play on the scene of these three protectors.

Currently Dorje Shugden and Setrap are enlightened Protectors being the emanations of Manjushri and Amithabha respectively.

It is my humble opinion that Nechung who had served as an unenlightened protector may now move on to be enlightened.  And when that happens, the time for a Protector suitable for the times will be Dorje Shugden.

Any comments to my assumption?