Author Topic: Plea of a self-immolator  (Read 7814 times)

vajratruth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Plea of a self-immolator
« on: December 05, 2012, 08:36:21 AM »
DHARAMSHALA, December 4: Minutes before setting himself on fire, Tibetan self-immolator Lobsang Gendun left a message of hope for the unity and solidarity of all Tibetans.

According to Tsangyang Gyatso, an exiled Tibetan with contacts in the region, Lobsang Gendun called a friend of his, moments before burning himself to death, and left a message of unity to all Tibetans.

“I am right now preparing to self-immolate,” Lobsang Gendun told his friend (name not revealed). “I have already doused my body with petrol. I am only left with the battery water to drink before I burn myself.”

“Although I wanted to leave a note, but for my poor handwriting, I could not. So, I am calling you,” Lobsang Gendun told his friend. “My hope is for Tibetans from all the three provinces of Tibet to be united, have solidarity with each other, and not to indulge in internal quarrels. Our aspirations will be fulfilled if we all do this.”

Lobsang Gendun, 29, a monk, at the Penag Monastery, self-immolated in Golog Pema region of eastern Tibet at around 7:45 pm (local time) Monday, December 3. He succumbed to his injuries at the site of his protest.




And so another life is sacrificed but this time the message of the self immolator Lobsang Gedun is not directed to China but to Tibetans themselves. Lobsang Gedun's last wish was for all Tibetans to unite and for all infighting to cease for the greater cause of Tibet's freedom.

The population of Tibetans in exile is small, only approximately 140,000 and from all accounts, there isn't any serious internal issues that is creating disunity amongst them, except for the ban on Dorje Shugden's practice. The ban imposed by His Holiness The Dalai Lama and enforced by the CTA till this day, is the one single issue that has caused a fracture within a peaceful community and also deep schism within the Tibetan monastic community.

Lobsang Gedun, a simple monk understands what the entire cabinet of the CTA, especially the globe trotting Dr Lobsang Sangay who is the ban's henchman masquerading as a champion of people's human rights has thus far failed to. And that is the simple fact that the the Tibetan Cause has failed to-date is due to the disharmony caused by an illegal ban over a practice that Tibetans have performed for hundreds of years. The ban has caused disciples to break their oaths of devotion to their Gurus - a core practice that is central to all Tibetan Buddhist schools, not to mention conjoin them into committing one of the five heinous crimes of creating schism within the Sangha.

As early as 1996 the then Tibetan Government In Exile released a communique stating that the practice of Dorje Shugden was the reason Tibet has not been successful in securing its freedom from China and coerced its citizens into a tough decision to either choose the greater good of all Tibetans or their on religious belief. Many gave up their practice with much pain and those who refused were severely marginalized. The statement released by the Tibetan Government In Exile was made on the inference that such a sacrifice by Shugden practitioners would secure Tibet's freedom. It is now 16 years later and the stateless government of Tibet, now the CTA is no where close to achieving self government of their own country. What happened? Were they wrong to blame Dorje Shugden instead of themselves? Why has the CTA been so slow to explain to its people why the Tibetan caused has failed so miserably and is in fact losing momentum, as nation after nation quietly turns its back to the Dalai Lama?

What Lobsang Gedum knows is also well known around the globe but the CTA is still in denial. The CTA must unite all Tibetans regardless of all differences and to do that they must immediately bring down the ban. Then, not only will they be able to front China as a united people, they will also stop the negative consequences of their ongoing actions in upholding a ban which continues to cause much grief and suffering to Shugden practitioners.

A precious human life has been given up to send a message to the CTA and all Tibetans. It is up to them to decide of Lobsang Gedun died in vain or not.

As a postscript, Dr Lobsang had said a coule of days ago that it was the "sacred duty" of all Tibetans to support the self immolators. I would like to call upon Dr Sangay to now live up to his sacred duty to support the message and final wish of Lobsang Gedum and remove the only issue that is creating disunity amongst Tibetans. It is really time for the Dorje Shugden ban to go.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 08:59:31 AM by vajratruth »

Ensapa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • Email
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2012, 08:46:44 AM »
I kind of posted this in the self immolation thread, but hey you added a whole new dimension to this story, so I'll wanna share my opinion of this as well. I wonder how can the CTA people sleep comfortably at night when so many people are burning themselves to their deaths when they could have just come out with a very strong stance and statement, asking people to stop self immolations and that it is against the Buddha's teachings while being counterproductive to the independence cause as China will get more and more annoyed and irritated.

All it takes is just for CTA to condemn such acts, and the self immolations will reduce. But instead, they choose to passively encourage it by holding prayer sessions for those who have self immolated.

kris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 919
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 03:53:29 PM »
It is definitely sad to see a life being ended in such a way :( but I admire his courage for standing up for a cause... but what is the cause? Yes, it is about stopping the internal quarrels!

CTA, did you hear his plea??

Lineageholder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 516
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2012, 07:55:40 PM »
My heart goes out to people who are so desperate about the state of their country and culture that they have to resort to the drastic act of suicide.  It's a pointless waste of life that the Dalai Lama still refuses to condemn.  There's no doubt that if he did, it would stop, so he is complicit in these acts of violence by his silence.

Shame on you, whom people consider to be the Buddha of Compassion.

DharmaDefender

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 10:31:24 AM »
I wonder who cares about the 80 who have self-immolated? Who remembers their names? Who knows their faces? The Tibetans mourn their loss and admire their commitment, but do their government care? Do the Chinese government care? Does the world care?

If no one cares except for the Tibetan population, what do they think they will achieve from burning themselves except a lot of page 2 news? Face it - after the Viet Nam War, self-immolations became passe and lacking in impact. Everyone has become desensitised to it.

The Tibetans need to find a different method to protest for their freedom, or just give up and practise the Buddhist teachings and let go of their attachment to Tibet. Even if the country is free, if they arent free from their own personal samsaras, what is the point? Still going to the three lower realms anyway! Better to hold your commitment to your yidams (Dorje Shugden or anyone else) and gain attainments than focus on politics and achievements limited only to this life.

beggar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 01:24:36 PM »
I had just written about this recently and this post highlights that point perfectly - the great irony that while the Tibetans are fighting for freedom of their whole country and people, they aren't granting the most basic individual freedoms and rights to the current exiled community under their governance.

There's also this greater irony: there are claims that Dalai Lama had wanted to unite the four schools of Tibetan Buddhism (perhaps for the reason of being able to exert greater control over all Tibetans). The Dorje Shugden practitioners then became a target of this greater plan, bringing in the claims that one is sectarian if one practices DS (principally and only because he is most often associated as a Gelugpa protector, though in nature, of course he is fully enlightened and therefore never sectarian in the way that is claimed). So it's ironic and contradictory, isn't it, that so much division has been created among Buddhist practitioners for the so-called sake of uniting them?

So there are great big plans for a great big unification - to unite all exiled Tibetans with those back in the motherland of Tibet, and to unite all the sects of Tibetan Buddhism. But within all this is what seems to have become a necessary separation and division of practitioners, most predominantly of course within the Gelugpa school and among Shugden practitioners.

As the CTA and their people create rifts among their own small and ailing exiled population in India / Nepal, there doesn't seem to be any progress happening on any front for them. There are no great educational or career opportunities for their people, welfare is bare and scant, and the rights of Tibetans all around the world are dwindling. So Tibetans themselves are scattering across the world to other countries in the West. There is further division, even if it's unconscious and not intended in a bad way.

And who's to blame really except the CTA for creating divisions over such small and trivial matters, denying their own people the most basic individual freedoms and rights. Is there any real surprise that their own people - and governments on an international scale - would NOT want to support a government like this? They'd be much better off trying to attain unity among themselves first before lobbying for much bigger causes, freedoms and reunification.

icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 02:53:45 PM »
Self-immolation is indeed sacrilegious.  Wouldn't it better self-immolatars spend their life in meaningfully pursuit in meditation and achieve buddhahood just like their predecessors instead of discriminating "I" and "my" country Tibet?  Once they have attained Buddhahood there would be no "I" and "my" but absolute power to help all sentient beings and liberate them from suffering.

dsiluvu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 04:57:04 PM »
Quote
“Although I wanted to leave a note, but for my poor handwriting, I could not. So, I am calling you,” Lobsang Gendun told his friend. “My hope is for Tibetans from all the three provinces of Tibet to be united, have solidarity with each other, and not to indulge in internal quarrels. Our aspirations will be fulfilled if we all do this.”

Well it sounds to me that this statement calls for peace and harmony amongst Dharma brothers and sisters... including Dorje Shugden practitioners.  "have solidarity with each other, and not to indulge in internal quarrels" I do not hear him say this with discrimination or exception towards Shugden practitioners... do you CTA? I find this statement actually quite STRONG! So why has the CTA not done so to unite the people eh???

Somehow I get this feeling that CTA is keeping quiet and not telling their own people to stop because they want to use this self-immolation death as guilt trips to other world leaders to put pressure towards China. Why does the world owe it to them to solve their problems?Why should the world leaders help Tibet, what do they get out of it when China is bailing them from their economic depression and debts... what does CTA expect... can CTA help Europe, UK and US's economy???   


dsiluvu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 05:09:40 PM »
Quote

Closing Address by His Holiness the Dalai Lama to the Global Buddhist Congregation 2011


New Delhi, India, November 30, 2011
[Delivered to an audience that included senior members of the monastic communities from all the Asian Buddhist countries]       
Transcribed by Diana Yles, slightly edited by Luke Roberts and Alexander Berzin

Harmony among the Different Buddhist Traditions

Now, as I mentioned yesterday when we met the leaders from Burma and Laos and some others, in the past, because of the names so-called “Hinayana,” “Mahayana” and “Tantrayana,” people got the impression these three yanas [vehicles] are something really different and separate. That’s totally mistaken. As I mentioned briefly this morning, the Theravada tradition, or Pali tradition, is the foundation of Buddhadharma; and the practice of vinaya [monastic vows and discipline] is the foundation of Buddhadharma.

Look at Buddha himself, his own story. He cut his own hair and then became a monk. That’s the practice of sila [ethical self-discipline]. Then he did six years of meditation. That’s the practice of samadhi [absorbed concentration], and also the practice of vipassana [an exceptionally perceptive mind]. Through that way, finally he reached enlightenment. So the three trainings are sila, samadhi, pannya [discriminating awareness, wisdom] or vipassana. So we, his followers, must follow that way. Without the practice of self-discipline, without the practice of vinaya, how can we develop samatha [a stilled and settled mind] and vipassana? Difficult. So the Pali tradition is the foundation of Buddhadharma.

On top of that, comes the practice, I think, of the Prajnaparamita Sutras [The Perfection of Wisdom Sutras], from the Sanskrit tradition, with their emphasis on nirodha [the true stopping of suffering and its causes, true cessation], the third noble truth. So this further explanation is important. What is nirodha? Buddha explained the possibility of eliminating our ignorance. Once we completely eliminate ignorance from our minds, that’s nirodha, or moksha [liberation]. So that’s a further explanation. And then also magga [the path or understandings for achieving that true stopping, the fourth noble truth] is a further explanation.

So, on the basis of the Pali tradition, then comes the Sanskrit tradition, like the first floor. In other words, first comes the ground floor; that’s the Pali tradition—bhikshu [monk] practice, self-discipline, sila. Then comes the first floor, the Prajnaparamita Sutras and also abhidharma [special topics of knowledge], a kind of abhidharma—the teachings about wisdom, the six paramitas [far-reaching attitudes, perfections] or ten paramitas. Then on top of that, the Buddhist Tantrayana—visualization of deities based on practice of vipassana, samatha, and bodhichitta [a mind aimed at attaining enlightenment for the benefit of all]. So these are the ground floor, first floor, and second floor, like that. Without a ground floor, you cannot build the others. So I think the Buddhist brothers and sisters here should know that.

Of course I have no authority. I consider myself a student. Whenever I have time, I always study and read, read, read. As far as Tibetan Buddhism is concerned, about three hundred volumes were translated into Tibetan from Indian languages—Pali, Sanskrit, and some Nepalese. So whenever I have time, I read, think, and study these three hundred volumes. Certainly my knowledge is a little better compared to those people who have never even touched these three hundred volumes. [Based on that knowledge,] as I study these books, I develop the full conviction that the practice of these three trainings is very, very essential.

Source:http://dalailama.com/messages/buddhism/buddhist-congregation-2011-address


OKAY... So how is it Dorje Shugden is exempted from this??? Why are there no Harmony amongst the Gelugpa tradition itself?? Just because we want to believe and continue in a Protector practice that was actually practiced by the Panchen Lama and HH Dalai Lama himself?

If I'm not mistaken, there is not even any discrimination statement put up for "satanic worshipers" not allowed to go for His Holiness teachings but if you are a Shugden practitioners - YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED. Wow is this what you call Harmony among the Different Buddhist Traditions???

Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 05:38:32 PM »
It is really sad that people are giving up their lives for the Tibetan cause when there's not hope ever for Tibetan independence. On top of that, is there really that bad of atrocities committed by the Chinese. Yes, they torture and imprison all dissidents but that's not really restricted to Tibetan dissidents only. The Chinese do that to all dissidents including the Chinese dissidents themselves.

On top of that, the Chinese would never be moved by self-immolation because they would never allow petty issues like that to threaten national security. If the Chinese would allow Tibet to have its independence, it would snowball as it would inspire other provinces throughout vast China to seek independence as well. That's why the Chinese would come down very hard on any separatist dissidence to stamp out any movement that goes in that direction. That has been the Chinese policy for many years and it is not likely to change in the near future.

Besides, all the international attention that the Dalai Lama had generated for the Tibetan cause had bored no tangible result in the direction of Tibetan independence.   

jessicajameson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
    • Email
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 05:46:38 PM »
Articles like this one really bugs me.

You read the plea from the self-immolator above, where the self-immolator has monk robes on and you wonder, "Why isn't His Holiness the Dalai Lama asking them to stop?".

I really do not think that the Chinese government care at all about the self-immolators. I mean, the faster they die - the better, isn't it?

If His Holiness the Dalai Lama just stood up and spoke out against burning themselves to death, wouldn't majority of the Tibetan people listen?

Then you have the argument that HHDL is no longer in charge of political affairs, only spiritual. So you have the secular head Prime Minister Dr Lobsang Sangey to hear from. What do we hear? A statement that says how Tibetans have the sacred duty to uphold self-immolations. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=2843.0

You have your own people burning themselves alive, why aren't the heads speaking up?

Ensapa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • Email
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2013, 06:17:38 AM »
There are actually many things about self immolations that bother me: that the fact that most people who immolate themselves are young people whose minds can be easily brainwashed into doing whatever the perpetrators want them to do. The second thing is that no Buddhist in the world outside of Dharamsala actually considers the self immolations to be a representative of the Buddha's teachings. Thirdly, when a person in robes self immolates, it brings down the Dharma to a secular level as Tibet's freedom is a secular issue and not a spiritual one. Fourth, how come no ministers or the VIPs in Dharamsala are immolating themselves in the name of Tibet's freedom? If they love Tibet that much, then they should immolate themselves. The last question has been echoed by many people who find the self immolations disturbing and it is a glaring sign that the CTA is behind the self immolations.

brian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
    • Email
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2013, 01:15:34 PM »
This bothers me a lot because another one precious life is gone. The fact that it is going to be highly impossible for Tibet to be 'freed' again. I feel this is a waste of human life rather than true heroic act because the fact that this act along with the 80 others will not be making the Chinese government to reverse their policy. Despite this, there were not much attention being generated to among the leaders of the rest of the world to really act on the freedom of Tibet. Sigh...

Ensapa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • Email
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2013, 06:14:31 AM »
This bothers me a lot because another one precious life is gone. The fact that it is going to be highly impossible for Tibet to be 'freed' again. I feel this is a waste of human life rather than true heroic act because the fact that this act along with the 80 others will not be making the Chinese government to reverse their policy. Despite this, there were not much attention being generated to among the leaders of the rest of the world to really act on the freedom of Tibet. Sigh...

Well, it bothers all of us a lot too because being burned alive would be a very painful thing to happen to anyone but what is worse is that these people are dying for nothing. They are dying for a cause that will not fruition. Maybe some of them are doing it for Tibet, but I can easily tell that most of them are doing it for the 'glory' that their name will be glorified in Dharamsala and in the annals of the CTA. Well, CTA does pujas for them, if that is what they wanted, but equally sad is the fact that nobody really cares about these statistics because everyone is numb already to them. CTA should take a stronger stance against self immolations to stop them and gain the respect of the world. They should stop trying to gain the world's pity.

vajrastorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Re: Plea of a self-immolator
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2013, 08:52:52 AM »
For whatever reasons the  self-immolations have taken place, it is sad that they have not and will not achieve any of their desired result.

In China, I don't think Tibetan monks and lay-people are affected by the ban on Shugden practice. I think Lobsang Gendun feels a strong sense of despair that the cause of freedom of Tibet is not supported by a 'united force' of all Tibetans in China. I somehow don't think His self-immolation is connected to supporting the cause of the lifting of the ban .

The real heroes in their struggle to not break samaya with their Gurus and to maintain their unwavering Guru Devotion to their Gurus, are still the staunch Shugden practitioners who have suffered tremendously for practicing Shugden in the face of the ban. These are the real Dharma practitioners, for whom suicide has never been an option.

Yes, it is rather sad and bewildering to see that self-immolation mostly involves young monks, who should be focused on their spiritual practice and not be committing suicide for a political cause. This is especially more tragic considering that this is happening in China, where , for the sake of maintaining political stability, each time a self-immolation takes place, the Chinese government will come down hard on the Tibetans, both the sangha and the lay community. The futility of it all, the waste of  a precious human life! Yes, that young people are involved in self-immolation does suggest that they have been 'brainwashed ' into doing it. The perpetrators have a lot of blood on their hands!