Author Topic: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden  (Read 15483 times)

Namdrol

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Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« on: September 02, 2012, 08:45:23 PM »
Some time in 2007, a senior student of FPMT, Yeshe Sangye, posted a stunning article that Lama Zopa was in fact recognized by Dorje Shugden as a Rinpoche (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/who-made-lama-zopa-a-rinpoche/), and after the news spread like wild fire, Lama Zopa tried to make a clarification, but it only served to CONFIRM the fact from Lama Zopa HIMSELF that he was indeed recognized by Dorje Shugden.

The "clarification" by Lama Zopa is posted below, and notice that he ends it by saying "So the Lopon for his own benefit asked the oracle of the monastery if this was true." And who was the oracle of the monastery??

THE FAMOUS DORJE SHUGDEN ORACLE IN DUNGKAR MONASTERY OF COURSE!!! SEE HERE: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/famous-oracle-of-dungkar-monastery-2/

Lama Zopa stopped short of saying the above, so this is exactly what he meant: The Lopon went to ask the Dorje Shugde Oracle of Dungkar Monastery if Lama Zopa was a Rinpoche, and DORJE SHUGDEN SAID YES, and that's how we have Lama Zopa and all the hundreds of FPMT centers today!!! THANKS TO DORJE SHUGDEN!!!!
 

Lama Zopa's "clarification" in 2008 about being recognized by Dorje Shugden:

"HOW I WAS RECOGNIZED

To my very dear friends and students,
 
I heard there is some misunderstanding about how I was recognized, so I just want to give you the details here.
 
The main disciple of the Lawudo Lama Kunsang Yeshe (who it is said is my previous life) was Ngawang Chopel. He did many retreats during his life and he also followed the Buddha's example of offering his own body (charity) to the insects and animals for seven days; this was quite amazing as he completely offered and they ate parts of it and he had to be taken to the hospital. Later Ngawang Chopel also built a monastery at Maritika near a cave of Guru Rinpoche (considered one of the most holy places of Guru Rinpoche - where it is said He achieved immortality). Ngawang Chopel was with the Lawudo Lama at the time of his death. The Lawudo Lama explained the signs happening in the death process to him as he was dying.
 
Since I was born in a very poor family, there was doubt by some if I was the incarnation, mainly on the part of the son of Lama Kunsang Yeshe. When Ngawang Chopel heard this he went immediately to Tibet to consult high lamas and all six lamas he consulted confirmed without doubt that I was the incarnation of the Lawudo Lama Kunsang Yeshe. Two of the six high Lamas were His Holiness Tulshig Rinpoche (one of the teachers of His Holiness the Dalai Lama) and his root guru, the great Lama Rongpu Sangye. So at an early age, long before going to Tibet and the monastery at Pagri (small branch of Domo Geshe's main monastery), I was recognized. Before I left for Tibet the son of Lama Kunsang Yeshe accepted me as the incarnation and promised to return to me the cave and texts etc. belonging to his father after I returned from Tibet.
 
I was brought into Tibet by two uncles; both were my alphabet teachers. Why did I have two alphabet teachers? The first one was from Thami, near Lawudo; he took care of me. When I was very small (maybe four years old) I was always escaping and running home, so my mother sent me far away to the monastery in Rolwaling, a very isolated place high in the mountains near Tibet. There I was in the care of another uncle, Ngawang Gendun, who also taught me the alphabet (Tibetan). I stayed with him in Rolwaling for seven years, memorizing and reading texts and doing pujas called "shi-trol."
 
These two uncles took me to Tibet. In Tibet I stayed with another uncle. He was in the Indian army; then he met a Tibetan lady from Tsang and they married and lived in Pagri, Tibet. Pagri was a very busy place for traders from Bhutan, Kalimpong, Lhasa, etc.  The three uncles with some other Sherpas left me in the care of my aunt while they went on pilgrimage to Lhasa. They didn't take me as they thought the journey would be too difficult and I could die, as I was still very young. After living some time in Pagri (hanging around), outside my house I met a very tall monk (externally appearing not to know me) and immediately he asked me if I would be his disciple (there must have been very strong karma with him). I answered him immediately "yes." Next day in the morning my aunt made a very nice thermos of tea and bread in a bamboo container inside a basket and took me to the small branch monastery of Domo Geshe Rinpoche's main monastery about fifteen to twenty minutes' walk away, where I met the tall monk again - he was the Lopon of this small monastery. The Lopon heard stories of me from people in the village, that I was a tulku from Lawudo near Thami. So the Lopon for his own benefit asked the oracle of the monastery if this was true.
 
With much love and prayer,
 
Lama Zopa Rinpoche"

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2012, 06:31:32 PM »
Dorje Shugden was the main agent who recognized Lama Zopa when no one else knew he was an incarnation. Because of Dorje Shugden Lama Zopa was accorded the status of a Tulku since very young in Tibet. Like Lama Zopa Rinpoche, Dorje Shugden has recognized hundreds of Gelug Tulkus and various incarnations including the current Kyabje Pabongkpa Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Zong Rinpoche. His identification of these incarnations matched the exact details as His Holiness the Dalai Lama's.

TK

so_003

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2012, 07:55:01 AM »
I have heard about Lama Zopa being recognised by Dorje Shugden. Alto Dorje Shugden is known to recognized many Tulku. But this is good to know from the Tulku that shares their own stories with us. With this write up/ links confirms what I herd is true. Thank you so much for the much research and sharing the links.

Ensapa

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2012, 06:34:12 AM »
Dorje Shugden was the main agent who recognized Lama Zopa when no one else knew he was an incarnation. Because of Dorje Shugden Lama Zopa was accorded the status of a Tulku since very young in Tibet. Like Lama Zopa Rinpoche, Dorje Shugden has recognized hundreds of Gelug Tulkus and various incarnations including the current Kyabje Pabongkpa Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Zong Rinpoche. His identification of these incarnations matched the exact details as His Holiness the Dalai Lama's.

TK

thank you TK. Your interesting bit of information has got me thinking about Dorje Shugden recognizing tulkus. In law enforcement, when a detective is found out to be corrupt or to have committed a crime, all the cases they have solved in the past would have been subopena-ed and re-investigated, and all the criminals they have arrested in the past would have been acquitted of their crimes because a detective that can make the mistake of breaking the law could have made mistakes in their work as well, and therefore cannot be trusted anymore and all of their previous works and merits are invalidated. Similarly, if Dorje Shugden is declared an evil spirit, or is found to be harmful, all the tulkus that he has recognized in the past should be invalidated as well as it would mean that he is inaccurate. Then, why not CTA invalidate them, including Trijang Rinpoche? I am not sure but it seems that Nechung has not recognized any tulkus before...so they only have Setrap and Dorje Shugden to recognize tulkus and also Dorje Yundrolma. take away Dorje Shugden and you have one less authority to help recognize tulkus....and all of the tulkus that was recognized by him AND accepted by the CTA should be invalid by CTA's and HHDL's standards...including Lama Zopa.

But why not? why the double standard? Why enjoy the benefits but cast away the one who produce them? This is weird. On this basis alone, shouldnt CTA at least tolerate the existence of Dorje Shugden and his practitioners and not give them death threats?

Barzin

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2012, 06:57:35 PM »
What got me thinking is why particularly Dorje Shugden who recognized Lama Zopa?  Even years they tried to cover this piece of news, a monk can't lie after all.  This can only means Lama Zopa has strong affinity with Dorje Shugden.  Those lamas who we heard were recognized by Dorje Shugden were those who practiced and propitiates him in their past lives...  Very rarely we heard that Gelug lamas were recognized by deities that were not practiced in their sec.  I studied that Dorje Shugden lives under the throne of Lama Tsongkhapa, if Lama Tsongkhapa represents the Gelug lineage and most likely most of the high lamas under the Gelug lineage must have some connection with Dorje Shugden.  It is nearly impossible for the Gelug lamas to ban Dorje Shugden out of no reason.

I strongly believe Lama Zopa is such a remarkable lama, and this is the path he has to choose and perhaps not the right time to reveal anything yet. I trust both Lama Zopa and Dorje Shugden, who would doubt Manjushri afterall?

DharmaDefender

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 07:39:27 AM »
I guess if the oracle of that monastery took trance of Dorje Shugden, and Dorje Shugden is wrong... then the whole monastery must be wrong. Which means Lama Zopa is wrong and therefore not a tulku, and therefore not a good choice to lead FPMT.

Hmmm...

And before FPMTers want to insist that the oracle wasnt taking trace of Dorje Shugden, theres no denying it because its a well-known fact that (a) the oracle was taking trance of Dorje Shugden (b) Domo Geshe Rinpoche was a huge supporter of Dorje Shugden.

Ensapa

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 10:34:51 AM »
I guess if the oracle of that monastery took trance of Dorje Shugden, and Dorje Shugden is wrong... then the whole monastery must be wrong. Which means Lama Zopa is wrong and therefore not a tulku, and therefore not a good choice to lead FPMT.
Which is really why FPMTers should keep quiet and mind their own business rather than criticize Dorje Shugden in the first place. They should just tow in line with the ban and not practice Dorje Shugden and not make a huge song and dance over it and declare to the world how politically correct they are. Them supporting the ban is shooting themselves in the foot. For political reasons sometimes one has to swallow one's ego, but to go all out against Dorje Shugden is something that they should really think long and hard before engaging.

Hmmm...

And before FPMTers want to insist that the oracle wasnt taking trace of Dorje Shugden, theres no denying it because its a well-known fact that (a) the oracle was taking trance of Dorje Shugden (b) Domo Geshe Rinpoche was a huge supporter of Dorje Shugden.
If I am not mistaken, Lama Zopa's official biography has already stated that he is indeed recognized by Dorje Shugden. It is basically, fact that he is. FPMTers can deny all they want but they cannot deny the fact that their precious lama was recognized by Dorje Shugden because nothing can change that fact at all, so it is something they will have to reconcile and live with for the rest of their lives.

I am sorry, but deny all they want, nothing can change the fact that their lama was recognized by Dorje Shugden, and so to say that Dorje Shugden is evil would be to invalidate Lama Zopa and by extension, FPMT. A classical case of shooting one's foot. They could have just towed in line quietly with minimal drama, but....

Big Uncle

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2012, 05:56:04 PM »
I like the way Lama Zopa Rinpoche wrote his confirmation that it was Dorje Shugden that recognized Lama Zopa Rinpoche. He told the whole story with every important detail except the name of the deity inhabiting the oracle of Dungkar monastery.

However, everybody knows that the oracle of Dungkar monastery takes possession of Dorje Shugden. I guess, he could not... not tell the truth. So the article is correct and that Dorje Shugden really was recognized by Dorje Shugden. Now, why would an evil spirit recognize a real Lama? The recognition says a lot about who Dorje Shugden is and what he's about.

shugdenpromoter

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2012, 08:18:47 AM »
Dorje Shugden was the main agent who recognized Lama Zopa when no one else knew he was an incarnation. Because of Dorje Shugden Lama Zopa was accorded the status of a Tulku since very young in Tibet. Like Lama Zopa Rinpoche, Dorje Shugden has recognized hundreds of Gelug Tulkus and various incarnations including the current Kyabje Pabongkpa Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Zong Rinpoche. His identification of these incarnations matched the exact details as His Holiness the Dalai Lama's.

TK

Dear TK,

I myself have heard from some senior monks who are with Lama Zopa that Lama Zopa himself used to do massive Shugden puja in 2000 to 2004 in Kopan Monastery. They prepared the offerings for Lama Zopa. I am sure Lama Zopa still does now but on a much smaller scale.

Ensapa

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2012, 03:32:44 AM »


Dear TK,

I myself have heard from some senior monks who are with Lama Zopa that Lama Zopa himself used to do massive Shugden puja in 2000 to 2004 in Kopan Monastery. They prepared the offerings for Lama Zopa. I am sure Lama Zopa still does now but on a much smaller scale.

This is interesting because it goes along with HHDL's 'advice' of practicing in private but not spreading Dorje Shugden. One of HHDL's "official" advice about Dorje Shugden many years back is that Lamas can practice Dorje Shugden but not teach it to their students. So in any case, it would not be a surprise that Lama Zopa is privately practicing Dorje Shugden that only his close attendants would know of. But it would be fun to see how some of his hardcore anti Dorje Shugden students react when they find out.

dsiluvu

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2013, 09:19:41 AM »
Isn't it just simply amazing that Dorje Shugden would recognise incarnations even though they were previously not Gelugpa Lamas? Doen't this show that Dorje Shugden is truly a Dharma Protector, interested only in the spread of the Dharma and nothing sectarian?

Lama Zopa previous life was not a Gelug Lama but a Lama of the Nyingma sect. I found this story interesting and it made me realise that not only is our Dharma Protector truly enlightened and compassionate but true highly attained Lamas... like Lama Zopa is beyond any sect. They manifest, incarnate for the sole benefit to benefit others and spread the Dharma. Otherwise why would a Nyingma Lama, a Lawudo Lama - Zopa Rinpoche incarnate back and became a Gelugpa Lama? Check out the story below...



Quote
Every twelve years the Sherpa people of Solu Khumbu traveled from their mountain homes down to Kathmandu for a traditional pilgrimage tour of the holy Buddhist sites there. In the early spring of 1969 Zopa Rinpoche’s mother and other family members embarked on this pilgrimage, traveling to Kathmandu together with their friends and neighbors. But Zopa Rinpoche’s relatives had an even more compelling reason to head to Kathmandu that spring. They intended to beg Lama Zopa Rinpoche, the incarnation of the previous Lawudo Lama who had died in March 1945, to come back home to Solu Khumbu.

Dawa Chötar, the little boy who would eventually be ordained as Thubten Zopa, was born in the small town of Thangmé, just below the village of Lawudo, on 3 December 1945. His father had died when he was only two, leaving his impoverished mother with four children to raise, one of whom had died at the age of nine. He had an older brother, Sangye, and an older sister, Ngawang Samten. They dressed in rags and had little to eat. When he was barely able to walk, Dawa Chötar began trying to make his way up the mountain to Lawudo, a two-hour trek across a river and straight up the mountainside. He insisted that the cave up there was his home. He played at giving initiations and could name, apparently from memory, all the benefactors of the Lawudo Lama.

The Lawudo Lama had been a married salt trader with a son and a daughter. Married lamas are common in the Nyingma tradition, to which he belonged. He had decided to spend his life in retreat in a cave once used to store radishes. As he was digging it out, he discovered a beautiful space marked with sacred signs. But just as he was about to move into the cave, he was struck with paralysis. Later, he declared his disease a special blessing because it meant he could meditate undisturbed, having been rendered useless for anything else. So for thirteen years he sat in meditation on a stone seat in this cave, his hair left uncut and dressed always in an old white fur coat and a pair of big round earrings. It is said that during his cremation rainbow clouds filled the sky, flower-shaped snowflakes fell, and the air was filled with music.

Three years later a two-year old boy from one of the poorest families in the area began insisting he was the Lawudo Lama’s reincarnation. His relatives were embarrassed, but one night the late Lama’s daughter, Karzang, secretly visited the boy’s home with articles that had belonged to her father. Little Dawa Chötar identified them immediately. He was then subjected to public examinations; he passed every test and was officially recognized. When he was four years old, an uncle took him to Rolwaling Monastery, which was two days’ hard walk from Thangmé. The boy, now called Ang Gyältsen, spent seven years there, before his uncles took him to Tibet, where he was ordained at Domo Geshe Rinpoche’s Dungkar Monastery in Phag-ri. Not long after that, it was 1959 and he had to escape to India.”


http://biglovelamayeshe.wordpress.com/category/1969-kopans-beginning/

Ensapa

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 05:18:45 AM »
Isn't it just simply amazing that Dorje Shugden would recognise incarnations even though they were previously not Gelugpa Lamas? Doen't this show that Dorje Shugden is truly a Dharma Protector, interested only in the spread of the Dharma and nothing sectarian?

Lama Zopa previous life was not a Gelug Lama but a Lama of the Nyingma sect. I found this story interesting and it made me realise that not only is our Dharma Protector truly enlightened and compassionate but true highly attained Lamas... like Lama Zopa is beyond any sect. They manifest, incarnate for the sole benefit to benefit others and spread the Dharma. Otherwise why would a Nyingma Lama, a Lawudo Lama - Zopa Rinpoche incarnate back and became a Gelugpa Lama? Check out the story below...



Quote
Every twelve years the Sherpa people of Solu Khumbu traveled from their mountain homes down to Kathmandu for a traditional pilgrimage tour of the holy Buddhist sites there. In the early spring of 1969 Zopa Rinpoche’s mother and other family members embarked on this pilgrimage, traveling to Kathmandu together with their friends and neighbors. But Zopa Rinpoche’s relatives had an even more compelling reason to head to Kathmandu that spring. They intended to beg Lama Zopa Rinpoche, the incarnation of the previous Lawudo Lama who had died in March 1945, to come back home to Solu Khumbu.

Dawa Chötar, the little boy who would eventually be ordained as Thubten Zopa, was born in the small town of Thangmé, just below the village of Lawudo, on 3 December 1945. His father had died when he was only two, leaving his impoverished mother with four children to raise, one of whom had died at the age of nine. He had an older brother, Sangye, and an older sister, Ngawang Samten. They dressed in rags and had little to eat. When he was barely able to walk, Dawa Chötar began trying to make his way up the mountain to Lawudo, a two-hour trek across a river and straight up the mountainside. He insisted that the cave up there was his home. He played at giving initiations and could name, apparently from memory, all the benefactors of the Lawudo Lama.

The Lawudo Lama had been a married salt trader with a son and a daughter. Married lamas are common in the Nyingma tradition, to which he belonged. He had decided to spend his life in retreat in a cave once used to store radishes. As he was digging it out, he discovered a beautiful space marked with sacred signs. But just as he was about to move into the cave, he was struck with paralysis. Later, he declared his disease a special blessing because it meant he could meditate undisturbed, having been rendered useless for anything else. So for thirteen years he sat in meditation on a stone seat in this cave, his hair left uncut and dressed always in an old white fur coat and a pair of big round earrings. It is said that during his cremation rainbow clouds filled the sky, flower-shaped snowflakes fell, and the air was filled with music.

Three years later a two-year old boy from one of the poorest families in the area began insisting he was the Lawudo Lama’s reincarnation. His relatives were embarrassed, but one night the late Lama’s daughter, Karzang, secretly visited the boy’s home with articles that had belonged to her father. Little Dawa Chötar identified them immediately. He was then subjected to public examinations; he passed every test and was officially recognized. When he was four years old, an uncle took him to Rolwaling Monastery, which was two days’ hard walk from Thangmé. The boy, now called Ang Gyältsen, spent seven years there, before his uncles took him to Tibet, where he was ordained at Domo Geshe Rinpoche’s Dungkar Monastery in Phag-ri. Not long after that, it was 1959 and he had to escape to India.”


http://biglovelamayeshe.wordpress.com/category/1969-kopans-beginning/


This is proof once and for all that Dorje Shugden is not sectarian at all. And it is interesting how a Nyingma Lama could end up in a Gelug monastery because in a "logical" way the Nyingmas should reincarnate back to their tradition and be recognized back as one. One thing for sure is that thanks to him being recognized as a Gelug Lama and as the Lama as he is, many people has benefitted from him. His teachings still have a Nyingma flavor to them and is less scholarly compared to other Gelug Lamas, but neverthenless his contribution to the world of Buddhism cannot be denied, and all of these was made possible because Dorje Shugden recognized him as a tulku. Could anyone imagine what would happen if nobody recognized him? He wouldnt be the Lama he is today, or it would be slower for him to benefit people.

Big Uncle

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2013, 04:29:35 AM »
Yes and somewhere on this forum, someone said that when Lama Zopa was very ill, one of his senior monks secretly commissioned Dorje Shugden pujas for Lama Zopa to recover. In a way, I am happy that his senior monks are broadminded enough to order Dorje Shugden pujas to save their lama but I don't really understand why would Lama Zopa write foreword to anti-shugden book recently. Perhaps, he was compelled to do it out of his respect for the Dalai Lama.

Whatever it is, wouldn't it be lovely that when the ban on Dorje Shugden ban comes down, Lama Zopa reinstate Dorje Shugden practice in FPMT and in Kopan monastery. That would be most interesting if they did that. I dunno why but I am always having this imaginations of late especially since the Dalai Lama has declared that he would not talk about Dorje Shugden again. I guess that got my hopes up.

Ensapa

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2013, 04:59:34 AM »
Yes and somewhere on this forum, someone said that when Lama Zopa was very ill, one of his senior monks secretly commissioned Dorje Shugden pujas for Lama Zopa to recover. In a way, I am happy that his senior monks are broadminded enough to order Dorje Shugden pujas to save their lama but I don't really understand why would Lama Zopa write foreword to anti-shugden book recently. Perhaps, he was compelled to do it out of his respect for the Dalai Lama.

Whatever it is, wouldn't it be lovely that when the ban on Dorje Shugden ban comes down, Lama Zopa reinstate Dorje Shugden practice in FPMT and in Kopan monastery. That would be most interesting if they did that. I dunno why but I am always having this imaginations of late especially since the Dalai Lama has declared that he would not talk about Dorje Shugden again. I guess that got my hopes up.

I am in the opinion that Lama Zopa has never given up his Dorje Shugden practice. How could he? he received the sacred practice from his Root Guru. Can a 'higher' Lama override the teachings of the root Lama? I dont think so. If that is possible, then why do Root Lamas even exist? Perhaps Lama Zopa has been doing it secretly and only his close attendants do Dorje Shugden pujas with him because Lama Zopa still has 'power' and his attainments are still there for all to see. If he breaks his samaya with Lama Yeshe, his words wont have power anymore. I personally dont believe that he wrote the preface for that anti Dorje Shugden book. It would have been written by someone else and then the name attributed to him.

After the ban, it would be most likely that FPMT centers would take time to accept Dorje Shugden again as they have been against him for so many years, its not easy for them to just accept. Maybe a few years after the ban is lifted?

samayakeeper

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Re: Lama Zopa himself admitted being recognized by Dorje Shugden
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2013, 02:41:21 AM »
In time...the truth will be told. But for now the people in FPMT should respect all dharma practitioners regardless of their protector's practice and lineage instead of publicly saying negative things about Dorje Shugden. They may want to show their respect to HHDL but why go to the extent of putting down Shugdenpas when their own guru is one?

Would the sign read:

Dear Guru,
We, the committee of FPMT, respectfully refuse entry to you into our premises because you were recognized as a tulku by Dorje Shugden.