Author Topic: Oracles: What Enters?  (Read 5555 times)

jessicajameson

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Oracles: What Enters?
« on: July 08, 2012, 04:44:16 PM »
In a general sense, oracles are "portals"/"vessels" through which formless beings can enter and speak directly to people. They provide the "message from the Gods" - and in Vajrayana Buddhism, they are like a speaking divination box.

Oracles are different from seers, in that they themselves become the "Gods", not interpret signs by the Gods through tea leaves signs, animal entrails signs etc.

In Buddhism, the most "famous" is the Nechung Oracle which is the State Oracle of Tibet. There are also different oracles who can take trance of enlightened protectors such as Setrap and Dorje Shugden. Then there are also different oracles who can take trance of unenlightened protectors such as Jowo Chingkar, local deities etc.

My question is, if there are oracles which can take trance of enlightened protectors, are there oracles which can take trance of enlightened Buddhas? If no, why not?

Q

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Re: Oracles: What Enters?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2012, 07:18:49 PM »
To answer your question, there is no Kuten-la that can take trance of a Buddha. However there are Buddhas that emanate in human form.

So why are there oracles that can take trance of enlightened protectors but not Buddhas?

If we look at the Guru Tree, one can see that from the top we would see the Historical Buddha, Tsongkhapa, then all the wrathful Buddhas, and right at the bottom we would see the Enlightened Dharma Protectors. The reason why they sit far down of the Guru Tree is because it symbolize that they (Dharma Protectors) are closest to us (human realm beings) and therefore it is possible for an oracle to take trance with them.

I'm sure we've all seen an Oracle take trance (at least in video)... one can see the huge discomfort the Protector feels during the session. Our human body is very filthy, which is why in order to take trance, these Kuten-las are specially trained to purify their channels to allow the force and spirit to travel into the medium.

Taking trance is an extremely tiring process. Very often, the Kuten-la would be physically drained after each session, therefore, imagine if a Buddha is able to take enter an Oracle... the force of a fully enlightened mind would probably put the Kuten-la in a state of coma...

Big Uncle

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Re: Oracles: What Enters?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2012, 06:48:41 PM »
In a general sense, oracles are "portals"/"vessels" through which formless beings can enter and speak directly to people. They provide the "message from the Gods" - and in Vajrayana Buddhism, they are like a speaking divination box.

Oracles are different from seers, in that they themselves become the "Gods", not interpret signs by the Gods through tea leaves signs, animal entrails signs etc.

In Buddhism, the most "famous" is the Nechung Oracle which is the State Oracle of Tibet. There are also different oracles who can take trance of enlightened protectors such as Setrap and Dorje Shugden. Then there are also different oracles who can take trance of unenlightened protectors such as Jowo Chingkar, local deities etc.

My question is, if there are oracles which can take trance of enlightened protectors, are there oracles which can take trance of enlightened Buddhas? If no, why not?

The oracle is capable of taking trance of Protector deities because 74,000 psychic channels of the oracle has been ritually cleared for entry. Usually, the training of an oracle would include practices that will clear these channels for such beings to enter and reside. However, no matter how clear the channels are, only specific level of beings may enter a human body.

The reason is because higher deities like Buddhas are just too pure to enter our 'filthy' human body. The human body is considered to be born out of negative karma and so this prevents the purer beings like Buddhas from entering. However, due to great compassion, the Buddhas emanate into protector deities that are able to bring their messages across.

kris

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Re: Oracles: What Enters?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2012, 07:48:44 PM »
That is sure an interesting question :) From what I understand, Dharma Protectors like Nechung, Setrap, Dorje Shugden can take trance, but not other Buddhas like Mitreya or Manjushri.

From what I read up, Dharma Protectors are considered "low", in the sense that They are much closer to us. As such, they can take trance in trained oracles.

From the videos of Dharma Protectors taking trance, the oracle are usually very tired after the process. I was wonder if he is tired because Dharma Protector is wrathful? or other reasons... If ever a "peaceful" Manjushri take trance, will it still cause so much "pain"?