Author Topic: another desecration of a holy image  (Read 5990 times)

Tracy

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Re: another desecration of a holy image
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2018, 04:03:00 AM »
This is such a horrible depiction of Guru Rinpoche stepping on a monk. A Sangha is one of the three Jewels, how can one Jewel (Buddha) step on another Jewel? This is very disrespectful to both the Buddha and the Sangha.

If Dorje Shugden is a demon or spirit, why don't they ask some high lamas to perform powerful rituals to get rid of Dorje Shugden? It cannot be Dorje Shugden is so powerful that he is indestructible. The only explanation is that Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued or sent away because he is a Buddha.

The CTA has really poisoned so many minds and made people do negative actions such as this one. Imagine, how many people who were practicing Dharma decided they don't want to practice anymore because of all these wrong information the CTA has given to them on purpose? How can the Buddha bless the CTA for their cause if what they do all this while is disparaging the Buddhas?  Talking about getting their country back? Not a chance.

SabS

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Re: another desecration of a holy image
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2018, 01:22:22 PM »
This is such a horrible depiction of Guru Rinpoche stepping on a monk. A Sangha is one of the three Jewels, how can one Jewel (Buddha) step on another Jewel? This is very disrespectful to both the Buddha and the Sangha.

If Dorje Shugden is a demon or spirit, why don't they ask some high lamas to perform powerful rituals to get rid of Dorje Shugden? It cannot be Dorje Shugden is so powerful that he is indestructible. The only explanation is that Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued or sent away because he is a Buddha.

The CTA has really poisoned so many minds and made people do negative actions such as this one. Imagine, how many people who were practicing Dharma decided they don't want to practice anymore because of all these wrong information the CTA has given to them on purpose? How can the Buddha bless the CTA for their cause if what they do all this while is disparaging the Buddhas?  Talking about getting their country back? Not a chance.

Yeah, the Tibetan Leaders had really made the people's mind so degenerated that they see it okay for a person in robes to be harmed in such a way. If it is a depiction of Dorje Shugden, then its harm to an enlightened being, same as harming the Buddha. No wonder they had so much negative karma to be experienced. Tibetan Leaders had really created the cause for so much negativities. The Dalai Lama is ready to go back to Tibet under China rule. He may be ready to lift the ban. If only all the great DS Lamas were to unite together for dialogue with the Dalai Lama, then so much can be accomplished.

dsnowlion

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Re: another desecration of a holy image
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2018, 02:12:17 PM »
This is such a horrible depiction of Guru Rinpoche stepping on a monk. A Sangha is one of the three Jewels, how can one Jewel (Buddha) step on another Jewel? This is very disrespectful to both the Buddha and the Sangha.

If Dorje Shugden is a demon or spirit, why don't they ask some high lamas to perform powerful rituals to get rid of Dorje Shugden? It cannot be Dorje Shugden is so powerful that he is indestructible. The only explanation is that Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued or sent away because he is a Buddha.

The CTA has really poisoned so many minds and made people do negative actions such as this one. Imagine, how many people who were practicing Dharma decided they don't want to practice anymore because of all these wrong information the CTA has given to them on purpose? How can the Buddha bless the CTA for their cause if what they do all this while is disparaging the Buddhas?  Talking about getting their country back? Not a chance.

Yeah, the Tibetan Leaders had really made the people's mind so degenerated that they see it okay for a person in robes to be harmed in such a way. If it is a depiction of Dorje Shugden, then its harm to an enlightened being, same as harming the Buddha. No wonder they had so much negative karma to be experienced. Tibetan Leaders had really created the cause for so much negativities. The Dalai Lama is ready to go back to Tibet under China rule. He may be ready to lift the ban. If only all the great DS Lamas were to unite together for dialogue with the Dalai Lama, then so much can be accomplished.

Actually, CTA is really so stupid, if Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued by any of the high lamas, what exactly are they telling the world about these high lamas plus the Dalai Lama? Useless basically. That means all these high lamas are either fake or useless and Buddha's teachings and rubbish. So why bother taking refuge with those lamas and three jewels for?

So if that is the case might as well be a Dorje Shugden practitioner because we are more powerful, Shugden is more powerful lol. How ridiculous can they get and I find it so hilarious that the westerners are just as naive as the uneducated Tibetans? Sad that they do not use the brains but rid on blind faith to help them decide what is right and wrong. 

If the Dalai Lama actually has a real dialogue with Shugden lamas, I believe that they will be able to expedite his wish to return to Tibet and the preservation of Buddhism can then happen and the Tibetan people's lives will be much better. The Chinese will eventually loosen their grip on the people and will not oppress them so much.

Alex

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Re: another desecration of a holy image
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2018, 04:48:21 PM »
I can't believe another holy lineage has been desecrated by someone who thinks they know best. This artist should really need to think about how much negative karma had been created for him to create such images. They are tainting the holy lineage by creating new images of this deity which is not found in any scriptures and without any valid sources.

Another wrathful emanation of Guru Rinpoche, Dorje Drolo had a similar incident as well. There is a new Nyingma monastery had invited the 16th Karmapa who is one with Chenrezig to their opening ceremony of the new monastery. During the tour around to bless the monastery, Karmapa saw the statue of Dorje Drolo stepping on Dorje Shugden-like figure. He ordered for it to be removed and gave a prophecy saying that we will need to rely on Dorje Shugden in the future.

The 16th Karmapa is highly attained and his clairvoyant abilities are well known. He would have known that Dorje Drolo is incorrect and that is why he had it removed. Lama with his calibre will not be wrong and it is illogical to say they made a mistake.

You can read about the incident here. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/karmapa/


SabS

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Re: another desecration of a holy image
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2018, 05:10:45 PM »
This is such a horrible depiction of Guru Rinpoche stepping on a monk. A Sangha is one of the three Jewels, how can one Jewel (Buddha) step on another Jewel? This is very disrespectful to both the Buddha and the Sangha.

If Dorje Shugden is a demon or spirit, why don't they ask some high lamas to perform powerful rituals to get rid of Dorje Shugden? It cannot be Dorje Shugden is so powerful that he is indestructible. The only explanation is that Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued or sent away because he is a Buddha.

The CTA has really poisoned so many minds and made people do negative actions such as this one. Imagine, how many people who were practicing Dharma decided they don't want to practice anymore because of all these wrong information the CTA has given to them on purpose? How can the Buddha bless the CTA for their cause if what they do all this while is disparaging the Buddhas?  Talking about getting their country back? Not a chance.

Yeah, the Tibetan Leaders had really made the people's mind so degenerated that they see it okay for a person in robes to be harmed in such a way. If it is a depiction of Dorje Shugden, then its harm to an enlightened being, same as harming the Buddha. No wonder they had so much negative karma to be experienced. Tibetan Leaders had really created the cause for so much negativities. The Dalai Lama is ready to go back to Tibet under China rule. He may be ready to lift the ban. If only all the great DS Lamas were to unite together for dialogue with the Dalai Lama, then so much can be accomplished.

Actually, CTA is really so stupid, if Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued by any of the high lamas, what exactly are they telling the world about these high lamas plus the Dalai Lama? Useless basically. That means all these high lamas are either fake or useless and Buddha's teachings and rubbish. So why bother taking refuge with those lamas and three jewels for?

So if that is the case might as well be a Dorje Shugden practitioner because we are more powerful, Shugden is more powerful lol. How ridiculous can they get and I find it so hilarious that the westerners are just as naive as the uneducated Tibetans? Sad that they do not use the brains but rid on blind faith to help them decide what is right and wrong. 

If the Dalai Lama actually has a real dialogue with Shugden lamas, I believe that they will be able to expedite his wish to return to Tibet and the preservation of Buddhism can then happen and the Tibetan people's lives will be much better. The Chinese will eventually loosen their grip on the people and will not oppress them so much.

Exactly! After so many numerous "challenge" for CTA and followers to eliminate Dorje Shugden if what they claimed that he is evil is true, they dare not or could not. Instead they harrass, discriminate and abuse his practitioners. Well, DS Lamas and practitioners are generally doing very well and DS practice had spread further and further to benefit so many around the world. The last I heard was like 4 million?? and increasing. How wonderful if the people of China was to also start practicing and then that will take it into the billions. Wow! I guess these Anti-Shugdens just missed out on Buddha's teaching "Question, question question" instead of just following like sheep into slaughter. I think even sheep would struggle but these Anti-Shugdens meekly go on collecting karma with their harsh deeds. And Yes, it will be the Dorje Shugden people who can best fulfill the Dalai Lama's wishes as they are not the trouble makers like CTA and has China's trust. China will loosen her grip if peace prevails in Tibet without the CTA, the trouble makers.

Drolma

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Re: another desecration of a holy image
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2019, 11:57:57 AM »
There are many Dorje Shugden practitioners and monasteries in China. For example the Longxi Monastery in Qinghai, Jampa Ling in Chamdo, Gaden Sumtseling in Shangrila, Trijang Rinpoche's monastery in Chatreng and many more. Dorje Shugden practice is not a minor practice as claimed by the CTA.

The Dorje Shugden lamas and practitioners are people who just want to practice Dharma and they stay away from politics. The Chinese government gives a lot of support to the Dorje Shugden monasteries and lamas because they never make troubles, most importantly they don't create disharmony. In fact, Dorje Shugden followers in China are very respectful to the government and harmony is one of the very important values they practice.

A few years back, the Chinese government gave permission to Lama Wangchuk who is a Dorje Shugden practitioner to travel to Europe to give teachings. It is very rare for the Chinese government to allow the Sangha members to travel out. This shows the level of confidence the Chinese government has on Dorje Shugden lamas. So who gives more religious freedom? The CTA or the Chinese government?

Alex

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Re: another desecration of a holy image
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2019, 12:22:00 PM »
The creator of this thangka is blinded by his hatred and not seeing things clearly. What Ensapa said is really accurate. The thangka does not make any sense. The Dorje Shugden under Guru Tragphur is wearing monk robes and also holding a Vinaya staff. The monk robes and Vinaya staff represents the vows and Vinaya that sangha is holding which came from Buddha Shakyamuni.

It is not appropriate for Guru Tragphur to be stepping on these 2 items because it will be extremely disrespectful. How can a Buddha disrespect the Dharma? That does not make any sense. Anyone that understands the iconography will be able to tell that this thangka is fabricated and it certainly will not be authentic.

It is unbelievable that someone will go to the extent to create a totally false thangka just to put Dorje Shugden down. They deviated from their lineage when they simply change the iconography of those deities which does not match with the scriptures. This happened once during His Holiness the 16th Karmapa visit to the open ceremony of a Nyingma monastery. When the 16th Karmapa passes by a new statue of Dorje Drolo who is a wrathful emanation of Guru Rinpoche, he gives the instruction to remove the statue because Dorje Drolo is stepping on a being that resembles Dorje Shugden which is inaccurate.

Drolma

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Re: another desecration of a holy image
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2019, 01:12:06 PM »
The creator of this thangka is blinded by his hatred and not seeing things clearly. What Ensapa said is really accurate. The thangka does not make any sense. The Dorje Shugden under Guru Tragphur is wearing monk robes and also holding a Vinaya staff. The monk robes and Vinaya staff represents the vows and Vinaya that sangha is holding which came from Buddha Shakyamuni.

It is not appropriate for Guru Tragphur to be stepping on these 2 items because it will be extremely disrespectful. How can a Buddha disrespect the Dharma? That does not make any sense. Anyone that understands the iconography will be able to tell that this thangka is fabricated and it certainly will not be authentic.

It is unbelievable that someone will go to the extent to create a totally false thangka just to put Dorje Shugden down. They deviated from their lineage when they simply change the iconography of those deities which does not match with the scriptures. This happened once during His Holiness the 16th Karmapa visit to the open ceremony of a Nyingma monastery. When the 16th Karmapa passes by a new statue of Dorje Drolo who is a wrathful emanation of Guru Rinpoche, he gives the instruction to remove the statue because Dorje Drolo is stepping on a being that resembles Dorje Shugden which is inaccurate.

Many people like to be in the Dalai Lama's good book, so when the ban was imposed, some immediately go along with the Dalai Lama and do funny things. Some paint a thangka with a wrong iconography like this, some produce talisman to protect themselves from Dorje Shugden. If Dorje Shugden really is a spirit, what is so special about him that they have to do something just for him?

The best way to get rid of a spirit is to subdue him or do it like how Guru Rinpoche bound Nechung with an oath and made him a Dharma protector. There are so many high Lamas in all the Tibetan lineages, there must be one who can do the job! Why is that no one is doing it? A spirit can never be more powerful than the Buddha. If that is the case, why do we take refuge in the 3 Jewels.

It is so obvious that the ban was imposed unlawfully and the reasons the CTA gave are so illogical but because most people want to be in the Dalai Lama and the CTA's good book, they just follow blindly. Not only the Tibetans are like that, Tibetan Buddhists all around the world are like that too. Buddhism is supposed to be a religion with logic but the followers don't have any logic sense.

Alex

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Re: another desecration of a holy image
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2019, 07:58:06 AM »
Drolma, you have a point. Just because His Holiness the Dalai Lama is against it, everybody will go against it as well. They want to be seen in line with what His Holiness the Dalai Lama is doing because it will get them famous and alot of benefits if you are seen supporting His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

Anyone who seen taking a picture with His Holiness the Dalai Lama instantly gets the upper hand of credibility because of His Holiness's reputation. However, this does not mean no one ever exploited this and gave the wrong kind of people fame and credibility which can be quiet dangerous. It was exposed that one of His Holiness the Dalai Lama's man in the US had "sold" His Holiness's appearance at a cult's event.

It was later known that the cult paid 1 million to invite His Holiness to their event and speak to them. Of course, His Holiness did not have anything to do with him 1 million but it was his people who arranged it. People are willing to pay a high amount of money just to get close to His Holiness because they know what is the benefits of doing it.

The artwork here is the same where some artist trying to get on His Holiness's good side and created an image that is not according to traditional sources. It has no blessings because it is not authentic and there is no lineage or source for this deity in this form.