Author Topic: Mysterious Yoga Retreat in the Desert Ends in a Grisly Death  (Read 10385 times)

Namdrol

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http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=70,10929,0,0,1,0

by Joshua Lott, The New York Times, June 5, 2012

Christie McNally and her husband, Ian Thorson, were among 39 people who had been living in the huts here as part of an extended yoga retreat.

BOWIE, Ariz. (USA) -- The rescuers had rappelled from a helicopter, swaying in the brisk April winds as they bore down on a cave 7,000 feet up in a rugged desert mountain on the edge of this rural hamlet. There had been a call for help. Inside, they found a jug with about an inch of water, browned by floating leaves and twigs. They found a woman, Christie McNally, thirsty and delirious. And they found her husband, Ian Thorson, dead.

The puzzle only deepened when the authorities realized that the couple had been expelled from a nearby Buddhist retreat in which dozens of adherents, living in rustic conditions, had pledged to meditate silently for three years, three months and three days. Their spiritual leader was a charismatic Princeton-educated monk whom some have accused of running the retreat as a cult.

Strange tales come out of the American desert: lost cities of gold, bandit ambushes, mirages and peyote shamans. To that long list can now be added the story of the holy retreat that led to an ugly death.

The retreat — in which adherents communicate only with pen and paper — was designed to allow participants to employ yoga and deep meditation to try to answer some of life’s most profound questions. Mostly, though, it has only raised more questions.

Was it a genuine spiritual enclave? What happened to drive Ms. McNally and Mr. Thorson out of the camp and into the wilderness? And just why, in a quest for enlightenment, did Mr. Thorson, a 38-year-old Stanford graduate, end up dead, apparently from exposure and dehydration, in a remote region of rattlesnakes and drug smugglers?

When Ms. McNally and Mr. Thorson left the retreat on Feb. 20, after having participated for one year and one month, she had been its leading teacher. The monk who ran the retreat, Michael Roach, had previously run a diamond business worth tens of millions of dollars and was now promoting Buddhist principles as a path to financial prosperity, raising eyebrows from more traditional Buddhists.

He had described Ms. McNally for a time as his “spiritual partner,” living with him in platonic contemplation. What the other participants did not know is that before she married Mr. Thorson, Ms. McNally had been secretly married to Mr. Roach, in stark violation of the Buddhist tradition to which he belongs.

Even the manner in which Ms. McNally and Mr. Thorson left the retreat adds a fresh turn to an already twisty tale. It came days after she made a startling revelation during one of her lectures: she said that Mr. Thorson had been violent toward her, and that she had stabbed him, using a knife they had received as a wedding gift.

The authorities do not suspect foul play in Mr. Thorson’s death. Still, the events at Diamond Mountain University, as the place that hosts the retreat is known, have pried open the doors of an intensely private community, exposing rifts among some of Mr. Roach’s most loyal followers and the unorthodoxy of his practices.

In an interview, Matthew Remski, a yoga teacher from Toronto who unleashed a storm online after posting a scathing critique of Mr. Roach after Mr. Thorson’s death, described Mr. Roach as a “charismatic Buddhist teacher” whom he used to respect until his popularity “turned him into a celebrity” whose inner circle was “impossible to penetrate.”

Others spoke of bizarre initiation ceremonies at Diamond Mountain. Sid Johnson, a former volunteer who also served on its board of directors, said his involved “kissing and genital touching.” Ekan Thomason, a Buddhist priest who graduated from a six-year program there, said hers included drawing blood from her finger and handling a Samurai sword, handed to her by Ms. McNally.

“Should a Buddhist university really be doing such things?” Ms. Thomason asked.

Erik Brinkman, a Buddhist monk who remains one of Mr. Roach’s staunchest admirers, said, “If the definition of a cult is to follow our spiritual leader into the desert, then we are a cult.”

Mr. Thorson’s mother, Kay Thorson, hired two counselors about 10 years ago to pry her son away from Mr. Roach, who was trained under the same monastic tradition as the Dalai Lama. She recalled him as “strange,” someone who “sometimes connects, sometimes doesn’t, but who clearly connected with people who were ready to donate and adulate.”

The intervention — the term she used to describe it — offered only temporary relief. Mr. Thorson left for Europe for a time, but eventually rejoined the group.

“We learned of a possible offshoot to over-meditation, or meditation out of balance, or the wrong guidance in meditation; I don’t know the right word here,” Mrs. Thorson said in an interview. She recalled her son’s “compromised critical thinking, as far as making decisions and analyzing things,” and she feared Mr. Roach’s technique and guidance had pushed him there, but could not get him back.

Mr. Thorson and Ms. McNally, 39, married on Oct. 3, 2010, by the sea in Montauk, N.Y., almost three months before they left for the retreat and a month after Mr. Roach had filed for divorce from her. Ms. McNally and Mr. Roach had an old Dodge Durango, $30,000 in credit card debt and little else, according to the filing, in Yavapai County Superior Court.
 
Ms. McNally and Mr. Roach had shared a yurt in an earlier three-year retreat he promoted, in 1999, but swore they were celibate. The relationship nonetheless stirred reproach by Buddhist scholars, who urged him to renounce his monastic vows, and the Dalai Lama, whose office decried his “unconventional behavior.”

The marriage was a closely held secret. In writing, the only way he agreed to answer questions, Mr. Roach, who uses the title “geshe,” a type of doctoral degree in theology in the Buddhist monastic system, said he and Ms. McNally “come from strong Christian backgrounds” and “wanted to do a Christian partnership ritual at the same time we did the Buddhist one, at the beginning of our partnership.” (They were married on April 16, 1998, in Little Compton, R.I.)

He also said he wanted her to be “legally entitled” to his possessions if something happened to him. Their success seemed interdependent: They had written books together, given lectures around the world and were the forces behind Diamond Mountain.

In early February of this year, Ms. McNally and Mr. Thorson received a letter from Mr. Roach and the five other members of Diamond Mountain’s board of directors, demanding explanations for the violence and stabbing she had discussed in her lesson. There was no reply. In a letter she posted online — which she wrote after their departure from the retreat, though before Mr. Thorson’s death — Ms. McNally described it as an accident by a novice martial-arts practitioner rehearsing her moves.

The board’s president, Rob Ruisinger, said in an interview that Mr. Thorson had been stabbed three times in the torso, and that one of the wounds had been sutured by a medical professional who is among the retreat’s participants.

Ms. McNally and Mr. Thorson were given five days to leave. Instead, they departed without notice.

In her letter, she said they simply were not ready to go back into the world, so they decided to “go camping in the cow-herding land” next to Diamond Mountain “to get our thoughts settled.” When people came looking for them, they clambered uphill, she wrote, to the cave where Mr. Thorson would die. Some of the retreat participants would leave water for them, knowing they were still around. She told the authorities that at some point, she fell ill, he fell ill and they grew too weak to fetch it, said Sgt. David Noland, the search-and-rescue coordinator for the Cochise County Sheriff’s Office.

On April 22 at 6 a.m., Ms. McNally sent a distress signal to Diamond Mountain from a portable transmitter she had been carrying. Three of Diamond Mountain’s caretakers set out to look for her and Mr. Thorson, but could not find them. Around 8 a.m., the caretakers called 911.

Mr. Thorson was cremated in nearby Willcox on April 26. His mother said it was the last time she saw Ms. McNally, who could not be reached for comment.

The retreat is set to end on April 3, 2014. Of its original 39 participants, 34 remain.


negra orquida

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Re: Mysterious Yoga Retreat in the Desert Ends in a Grisly Death
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2012, 03:30:26 PM »
Very mysterious indeed.. Thanks for sharing.  Look forward to more details of what happened. Meanwhile I found this article which talks about Geshe Michael Roach's behaviour after divorcing Ms McNally. 
http://www.nypost.com/pagesixmag/issues/20100211/Monk+y+Business+Controversial+NYC+guru+Michael+Roach?page=1

One of the things Geshe Michael Roach said was
Quote
Geshe Michael laughs off questions about the clubbing and the Russian girl, saying, "If we don't make it fun and healthy, Buddhism will die out."
which I thought was very true.

yontenjamyang

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Re: Mysterious Yoga Retreat in the Desert Ends in a Grisly Death
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 05:52:05 AM »
Thanks Namdrol for this post. I found an article about the incident. Please read:

http://spiceyourday.com/?p=262

It is real drama. On the whole, I find the people running DMC has acted sincerely and honorable during the entire incident. Still, what lessons can we learn from this?

Big Uncle

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Re: Mysterious Yoga Retreat in the Desert Ends in a Grisly Death
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 03:10:32 PM »
Thanks Namdrol for this post. I found an article about the incident. Please read:

http://spiceyourday.com/?p=262

It is real drama. On the whole, I find the people running DMC has acted sincerely and honorable during the entire incident. Still, what lessons can we learn from this?


That's a very good question. This whole episode serves to make me think of the readiness of the Dharma teachers, especially for receiving higher Tantric initiations and in giving these initiations. As much as I respect Geshe Michael Roach for his deep knowledge of the Dharma but I remain doubtful of his judgement to make Christie McNally, a Dharma teacher. Her words are airy-fairy and the teachings and advices she gives is doubtful of its lineage and authenticity.

Where does it say in the Tantras that one has to visualize our partners and spouses as one with our Yidam?  I have never heard nor read about that one. I have always been told and read that one have to visualize our Yidam as one with our Guru. The exception is when our spouse or partner is our Guru of course. This is highly suspicious of McNally and the success of relationships should not be related to our spiritual practice. This is ridiculous! Everything about McNally seems to make me lose faith in her as a teacher, if I was one of the students.

sonamdhargey

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Re: Mysterious Yoga Retreat in the Desert Ends in a Grisly Death
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2012, 01:58:34 PM »
I find that the importance of initiations done by highly qualified master even more now because this incident of tantric practice of when one see their partners as their yidam is rather disturbing. I find that what Christy McNally explanations about the stabbing were mere accident while practicing martial arts. Firstly no amateurs practice martial arts with real weapons and even so 3 stabs does not sound like an accident.

Dorje Pakmo

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Re: Mysterious Yoga Retreat in the Desert Ends in a Grisly Death
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2012, 03:51:37 PM »
In my point of view after reading articles regarding this news, and open letters from both Geshe Michael Roach and Lama Christie Mcnally, the retreat and classes given at DMU are genuine. And, like any other centre in the world, there are bound to be criticism and complains from people who sometimes do not agree on how the centre is being managed.

Prior to the incident of Ian Thorson and Lama Christie Mcnally leaving DMU and continuing their retreat in a cave nearby DMU which later on led to the death of Ian Thorson. Ian Thorson was reported and known to be aggressive with a potential to cause serious physical harm to others due to his over sensitiveness to outside stimulus. Lama Christie Mcnally, being a spiritual guide herself showed signs of mental unstableness in her practice by being convinced somehow that the violence and aggression she and her partner has done was some kind of  “fierce divine pride” and that it was right to do so.

They were told to leave the retreat by the authority of DMU because of refusal to cooperate and to give a satisfactory statement explaining the cause of violence inflicted on Ian Thorson. Lama Christie Mcnally gave a simple excuse that said it was a game that the two was playing in an effort to raise her aggressive energy!  :-\ In her letter, she also said that her example of pure Tantra is to visualize her partner as the perfect angel, her shining light , her protector and savior, her entire world… etc..etc…
But how can visualizations and meditations taught by our holy masters be replaced with visualizing our partners? (I personally find that weird) ??? ???

From the open letter of Geshe Michael Roach, it is clearly written that all help and assistance were extended to both Ian Thorson and Lama Christie Mcnally to ensure their departure from DMU is with the most comfortable and gentle manner as they were in a deep retreat and must be treated with much care. But they refused assistance and instead went on their own to continue on the retreat at a nearby cave that led to Ian Thorson’s death from serious dehydration.  :(
 
Sources:
A Shift in the Matrix
- Lama Christie Mcnally’s letter
http://diamondmountain.org/an-open-letter-from-geshe-michael
- Geshe Michael Roach’s open letter
DORJE PAKMO

dondrup

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Re: Mysterious Yoga Retreat in the Desert Ends in a Grisly Death
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2012, 04:28:26 PM »
How could a monk had a relationship and lived with, and married a woman?  Geshe Michael Roach's behaviour is totally unacceptable and in contradiction with his monastic vows! He should renounce his monastic vows. If the spiritual teacher does not demonstrate the behaviour acceptable of a monastic, it is clearly that he is not suitable to teach the Dharma.  What is even worst is that Michael Roach has no remorse over his actions!

Similarly Ms McNally's example is not any better.  She lived and married a monk – Geshe Michael Roach.  She had caused him to break his monastic vows!

ratanasutra

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Re: Mysterious Yoga Retreat in the Desert Ends in a Grisly Death
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2012, 07:03:58 PM »
This is the most drama which i heard in Buddhist centre.

Its confirm that if one does not ready and receive the higher tantra practice it will only bring the damage instead of gain extreme benefit, especial if one become the Dharma teacher which can lead the students to have the wrong view or make students  loose faith in Buddhism.

I admire the high lamas who does not simply give the initiation out easily unless the students are well-learned and practice in foundation of Buddhist, till have stable mind, discipline etc which is the qualify to receive the higher tantric.

i wish this will be the great lesson for us to learn and it won't happen in any of Dharma centre/institution in the future. 

   

Ensapa

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Re: Mysterious Yoga Retreat in the Desert Ends in a Grisly Death
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 03:24:04 PM »
I found another piece of this that highlights more interesting events that happened after this one. However, most of this article seems to criticize Geshe Michael Roach very severely and it is quite long winded. As such, I have edited all the unnecessary parts which seemed to be endless hate attacks and whining against Geshe Michael Roach as opposed to facts and materials of interest.

Quote
There are reports that Christie McNally was last seen in Kathmandu, trying to secure a private audience with her first teacher, Lama Zopa Rinpoche. She couldn’t. There is a report that Christie’s mother has quoted Christie as saying: “Michael Roach murdered my love.” The Thorson family is starting to talk to the media. The claim that Roach’s sexual partner practices are a legitimate aspect of Gelukpa tradition has been thoroughly savaged by several knowledgeable commentators. A Facebook page has been organized to croudsource letters of concern to the Dalai Lama, and to request that Sera Mey monastery – Roach’s putative alma mater – formally distances itself from Roach. Dozens of followers and ex-followers of Roach are beginning to come forward with their memories.

On the videos of his June 8 to 17th teachings in his new Phoenix meditation-and-media centre, you can watch Roach start out on the sound-stage in band formation, with double bass or sitar or guitar in hand, and then step aside faux-meekly for a scene change, as devotees build a teaching throne for him, complete with silks, flowers, and icons. Then he mounts the throne to read and give the oral commentary on sections from Pabongka Rinpoche’s Liberation in the Palm of Your Hands, the thick slab of a beginner’s practice manual for the Gelukpa tradition that so many feel he’s dragging through the mud.

The subject matter of these teachings was chosen long ago. But the timing of the subject provided an uncanny opportunity for Roach to kill several birds with one stone: launder his orthodox mantel, rally the faithful in the wake of the tragedy (never to be mentioned directly) with some “back-to-basics” pep, demean critical thinking and healthy skepticism, and reinforce the walls he has built between the 21st century and his pre-modern fiefdom. Pabongka Rinpoche’s book may be philosophically rich, but it is also culturally impenetrable, laced with the kind of monastic ephemera and medieval folklore that Roach constantly weaves into his discourse to romanticize his adopted tradition and amplify his other-worldly authority. In teaching this particular book at this particular time, Roach announces unambiguously: Daddy’s back in town.

The obviously hurt and confused students lap it up. Ani Chukyi (who I remember as Anne Lindsay back in 1998), spoke in her parallel teaching about what a relief it was to hear her lama (Roach) “start at the beginning” again, given the stress and scandal of Ian’s death. It would seem that the most effective rear-guard action a tottering authority figure can perform would be to remind his followers how good it felt to gambol in the age of innocence, before his ex-girlfriend went mad, before his most naïve protégé died in a cave, and to regress everyone to a warm and knowing place, untroubled by independent thought.

On the first night in Phoenix, during a section that describes the process for preparing for the ideal meditation session, Roach related Pabongka’s encouragement to clean your room prior to sitting down through a story that seems quaint enough, but which, given present circumstances, carries an ugly message. I’ll paraphrase:

Once there was very stupid monk. He was so stupid he couldn’t memorize a single sutra. So the Buddha told him to clean the temple with a broom. He said: when you sweep, recite: “Clean the dirt. Sweep the dirt”. Try as he might, the extremely stupid monk couldn’t even remember the two phrases together, or in order. Nonetheless, his faith in Lord Buddha was so great and his sweeping so ardent that he quickly attained levels of meditative equipoise and insight that rivaled those of the greatest scholars.

The moral is: you don’t have to think. You just have to believe. And sweep up the temple dirt. So the idiot monk sweeps himself right into heaven: a story that might give all of us idiots hope, until we realize that it’s also an ideal story for the reassertion of paternal (anal, in psychoanalytical terms) control amidst chaos.

Two suggestions hover beneath this story. Firstly, Roach is reminding students that he was the stupid temple-sweeping monk for his teacher, Khen Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin (as per the anecdotes at the end of his blovathon). Secondly, he is implying that continued devotion in his students will obviate their cognitive failures. This suggestion is already an easy sell with most western adherents of Tibetan Buddhism, who will commonly say: “The Tibetans have been studying the truths of Lord Buddha for a thousand years: we shouldn’t presume to be able to understand anything”.
following Christie McNally back to where it all started

The voice we all want to hear most is that of Christy McNally. Not from behind a retreat blindfold, nor from a teaching stage, nor in an hallucinatory letter posted online from the middle of nowhere, trying to console confused devotees. With more than fifteen years at Roach’s side, she will know, more than anyone, how it all happened, how it all works, and exactly what he has done. But her authentic knowledge will be wrapped in the thick shadow of her complex self-perception. I imagine she is far more deeply split than anyone I see in therapy, with an unconscious part feeling she has been a slave to another’s dream, and a more conscious part actively rationalizing that slavery by assuming a false mastership role.

This is why I found it so moving to read of her travelling to Kathmandu and trying to meet Lama Zopa. It’s a classic story of a person returning to the site of her original trauma: the place where she began to change and split, to think she was becoming someone other than an East Coast photography and literature student with a bright and uncertain world before her. Perhaps a regular job, a family.

It was also very moving to read that she had to stand in the reception line like every other beginning student, that she received no special acknowledgement from this strangely luminous little monk she met in this very place in the mid-90s, at the beginning of her journey – before all the grandiosity, the thousand airplanes, the knives, and Ian’s malnourished eyes gleaming in the dark of the cave.

And perhaps most moving of all: to read that she offered a white silk kathak scarf to the old man, now so frail and sick, and that, as per the custom, he gave it back to her. Christie spent close to a decade wearing white silk “angel clothes” as she stood demurely beside her maroon-robed master. It is as though she offered Lama Zopa the rags of an old disguise. And the old Tibetan gave it back to her, placing it tenderly around her neck, as if to say: Own your life. Own your past, your path, your culture. It’s never too late. Start now, from the beginning.


original post here: http://www.elephantjournal.com/2012/06/the-michael-roach-bubble/

hope rainbow

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Re: Mysterious Yoga Retreat in the Desert Ends in a Grisly Death
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2012, 03:26:46 AM »
Oh please!

I'll speak here in support to Geshe Michael and his students!
I want to stop believing that I can judge what is going on. Not that I must be the "idiot-sweeping-monk" (see previous article), but let's not replace that by the "idiot-I-know-better-man"...

I mean, it is good that there is some controversy with this, for it is clear that Geshe Michael calls for some controversy, but we should also know better.

Am I surprised at Geshe Michael dressing up and hitting the clubs, taking along yoga students?
Not the least in the world! In fact, I am thinking what a great Guru he is to do that.
Let's remember mahasiddhas, let's remember Chogyam Trungpa!

For those of us who go to yoga classes, we all know that there is a breed of yoga practitioners that are very engrossed into their practice and need a Guru to shaken their self-created world of arsanas by taking them to a club and dancing on techno beats till morning sun...

For sure, my Guru won't take me to the club, I would enjoy it too much. So let's see who Geshe Michael takes to the club, let's hear what they say about their Guru:
'  Erin Vaughan, another yoga teacher there that night, was shocked. "He was on the dance floor, and there was nothing enlightened about it"  '

aheum...

It reminds me of the story when the previous karmapa visited the USA and went to the center of Chogyam Trungpa. CT asked all of his students to buy proper attire, where a tie and suit, and look good for the visit of this high lama. Some could not afford a suit and bought a second hand one, but there were some students who refused to wear a suit and left their Guru on that ground....

THEY LEFT THEIR GURU BECAUSE HE WAS CHALLENGING THEM. And they judged him from a "higher ground", giving up a spiritual path over a suit and tie...

It is excatly the same thing Geshe Michael is doing with staunch yoga students.
For GM will not be framed up within the projection that some of his students make of him.
Why? Because that will not help them, and if it does not help, then GM will not let it happen.

My thoughts on the matter.

Manjushri

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Re: Mysterious Yoga Retreat in the Desert Ends in a Grisly Death
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2012, 08:52:29 PM »
This is such an interesting story, but weird how it resulted the way it did. I did a quick search on Michael Roach and this is what I found from his website (http://geshemichaelroach.com/):

Geshe Michael Roach (born December 17, 1952) is the first American to have been awarded the degree of Geshe, or Master of Buddhism, after more than 20 years of study in Tibetan monasteries. He has used this training to become a prominent international teacher, businessman, philanthropist, author, educator, public speaker, textual scholar, and musician. Geshe Michael graduated with honors from Princeton University and has received the Presidential Scholar Medal from the President of the United States at the White House.

In 1981 he helped found Andin International Diamond Corporation and bring it to annual sales of over $100 million, donating his profits to international aid projects. His book about achieving business and personal success through generosity, The Diamond Cutter, has become a global bestseller in 20 languages. He is the founder of the Asian Classics Institute, Diamond Mountain University, the Asian Classics Input Project, Worldview, the Yoga Studies Institute, Star in the East, Global Family Refugee Aid, Three Jewels Community Outreach Centers, and the Diamond Cutter Institute.
**

I feel that the article is trying to put blame on Michael Roach, subtly however. The funny thing is that despite whatever that is going on, 34 other people remained of the original 39. Therefore, it is either that the other 5 could not push themselves further or the other 34 must be in delusion. Since 34 is a greater number, I choose to believe them and ask, so why then did they not leave, if the retreat was as bad as it sounds on the article?

Of course, the interconnection between Michael Roach and Christy is somehow...weird..and this story will bring bad press and generalized critique of Tibetan Buddhism as a whole. I hope Michael Roach bounced back and not let his good work falter.

buddhalovely

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Re: Mysterious Yoga Retreat in the Desert Ends in a Grisly Death
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2012, 04:58:51 PM »
A man who was part of a mysterious yoga retreat - likened to a cult - has been found dead in the mountains in Bowie, Arizona after fleeing the sect with his wife and succumbing to exposure.
The grisly death is just the latest twist in a story that involves a Princeton-educated monk, his forbidden wife and a stabbing in the desert.Search and rescue teams found Ian Thorson's body in a cave alongside his wife, Christie McNally, who was delirious and thirsty.Six weeks earlier, they had been ordered to leave the Diamond Mountain retreat after she revealed in one of her lectures that she had stabbed him with a knife 'by mistake'.

Mysterious end: Ian Thorson, left, has died after fleeing a Buddhist retreat with his wife Christie McNally, right. They camped in the Aizona mountains where Thorson died of exposure and dehydration.While police do not suspect foul play in his death, it raises questions about the secretive group with which the couple were involved.At the Buddhist Diamond Mountain retreat, nearly 40 adherents pledged to meditate for three years, three months and three days.Their only communication was by paper and pen.It was run by a divisive Princeton-educated monk and McNally's former husband, Michael Roach, whose teachings have been rejected as unconventional by some, including the Dalai Lama.