Author Topic: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?  (Read 21032 times)

WisdomBeing

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Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« on: April 21, 2012, 12:53:02 AM »
In this short clip taken during a stop in Long Beach, California on Friday, HH the Dalai Lama said he has no plans yet to retire, at least not before his 90th birthday. I’m very happy that the compassionate Chenrezig, HH the Dalai Lama, will be with us on this earthly plane for a good while longer. However, it really does make the so-called threat that Dorje Shugden makes on the Dalai Lama’s life rather ridiculous, don’t you think? If Dorje Shugden shortens one’s life and we can live until around 90 years, I don’t see the problem!

Dalai Lama says he's not retiring until at least 90

Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

DS Star

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2012, 01:28:33 AM »
Indeed it is very relieved to learn that HHDL will continue his holy mission till his 90th birthday. Perhaps he is planning to announce lifting the ban on his birthday?  :)

The nonsense accusation that practicing Dorje Shugden will shorten HHDL's life has no basis, at least on these following reasonings:

1. If we believe HHDL as the emanation of Chenresig, then he is an enlightened Buddha. A Buddha will have control over his own life span; so definitely not logical that a 'non-enlighten spirit' can shorten his life;

2. DS supposedly will only protect Gelug lineage and thus will threaten survival of other traditions of Tibetan Buddhism. So if DS is to protect Gelug-pa which is also HHDL's tradition, there is even more logical that DS will prolong the life of HHDL (if he can) so that Gelupa lineage will continue to grow.

rossoneri

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2012, 05:36:21 AM »
First of all, it is Dorje Shugden who helped HH Dalai Lama escaped Tibet during the Chinese invasion. With Dorje Shugden thangka which Dalai Lama personally requested it back from His Guru Trijang Rinpoche for him to bring along while HH was in life threatening situation. The Dalai Lama and his entourage escaping from Tibet to India.

Again i wanted to stressed here, why would HH Dalai Lama would request Trijang Rinpoche to lend Him the Dorje Shugden Thangka which earlier HH Himself had presented the thangka to His Guru as a gift. Why is the thangka is so important during that time?

So if Dorje Shugden really wanted to harm or shorthen HH Dalai Lama's life, why should He help HH back then, does it making any sense?
But it is not for me to to judge or understand certain decisions make by The Buddha Himself and hope HH the Dalai Lama will live long and continue to spin the Wheel of the Dharma.

I would like to share the HH Dalai Lama's 76th Birthday Celebration video in Washington:
His Holiness the Dalai Lama's 76th Birthday Celebrations



Ensapa

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2012, 03:32:20 PM »
Now, let us use logic to decipher this: If it was true, with the thousands of NKT branches around and them practicing DS strongly, and also huge regions of Tibet practicing Dorje Shugden, shouldnt HHDL be dead by now? If not, what does it say? Why would he want to make such a statement? In fact, 90 is a very old age for HHDL. If you read his biography, none of his incarnations actually hit that age!

So, in reality, his life is lengthened, is it because he wants to fool china so that they will encourage the entire nation to practice Dorje Shugden? is this not one of his skillful means to actually spread Dorje Shugden to many? It is also due to this ban that Dorje Shugden has gained more exposure than ever and has been the subject of curiosity rather than a forgotten protector.

I mean, logically it does not gel, but why would people not see it and still see things on a literal level instead of a deeper level or from a wider angle? Perhaps it would be easier for them to be politically correct rather than to have success in their spiritual practice and their personal transformation. Everyone wants the easy path, which is why they prefer Vajrayana as they think they can put in less effort.

Dorje Shugden himself has already said that the ban will be lifted in 5 years, and by that time HHDL should be in his 80s. And he will declare that Dorje Shugden is the most powerful Dharma protector ever and install him as the principal protector of Tibet and the Gelugs, and when that happens, many of those against Dorje Shugden will have to eat their words.

Zach

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 04:25:03 PM »
Ensapa ????

Dorje Shugden himself has already said that the ban will be lifted in 5 years, and by that time HHDL should be in his 80s. And he will declare that Dorje Shugden is the most powerful Dharma protector ever and install him as the principal protector of Tibet and the Gelugs, and when that happens, many of those against Dorje Shugden will have to eat their words.

When did he say this ?

dondrup

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2012, 05:01:28 PM »
Those who believe that HH Dalai Lama’s health will be harmed or his life shortened by Dorje Shugden are really stupid.  If everyone accepts HH Dalai Lama as the emanation of Chenrezig, a Buddha, then how can a Buddha possibly be harmed by a spirit?  If HH Dalai Lama can be harmed by spirit, then HH Dalai Lama is not a Buddha or Chenrezig at all.   

If Dorje Shugden is really a spirit, why is HH Dalai Lama so afraid of Dorje Shugden?  Since Dorje Shugden is a spirit and is harmful to HH Dalai Lama, then why didn’t HH Dalai Lama tame the spirit and put it under his control once and for all just like Padmasambhava did?  Wouldn’t it be easier to destroy or tame Dorje Shugden than to have a ban?  Does HH Dalai Lama not have the power to destroy or tame Dorje Shugden? 

HH Dalai Lama had said that if anyone practise Dorje Shugden then don’t go to his teachings or initiation. Why subject the Dorje Shugden practitioners’ lives to risk knowing they will continue to practise Dorje Shugden?  Shouldn’t HH Dalai Lama or Chenrezig be concerned?  Where is the compassion of a Buddha?

If HH Dalai Lama claim Dorje Shugden is a spirit, HH Dalai Lama is saying Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche and all Gelugpa Lineage masters were wrong. Does HH Dalai Lama not trust his guru’s teachings on Dorje Shugden?

There are so many other valid reasons to prove Dorje Shugden is not a spirit and will not shorten HH Dalai Lama’s life!  Otherwise HH Dalai Lama would not have lived until today!

lotus1

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2012, 05:33:02 PM »
Rejoice to hear that HHDL will at least live to the age of 90.  :)
The longer he lives, it just proves that it is ridiculous and not logical to say that DS can harm his life.
From my humble opinion, I still believe that the saying that DS will harm HHDL is for a bigger picture.
1.  HHDL is the Buddha and emanation of Chenresig, no evil spirit would be able to harm him
2. DS saved and protected HHDL to escape from Tibet.  If DS wants to harm DDHL, he would do it earlier and will not save him.
3. HHDL Gurus like Trijang Rinpoche are DS practitioners, would HHDL’s Guru will practise evil spirits that will harm HHDL? It is just illogical.
4. HHDL allows the current Trijang Rinpoche to practise DS, so, what does this say?  ;D
I really hope HHDL will live long and spread Dharma to more people. The more HHDL banned DS, more Chinese will practise DS. Maybe HHDL wants to live long as he would be the one who lift the ban again when the time is right! Pray hard for that day to come ASAP!

Galen

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2012, 06:18:35 PM »
Firstly, I am glad that the Dalai Lama is going to live long as he is a compassionate and has worked tirelessly to spread Buddhism to the world. However, he is contradicting himself now because he claimed that of Buddhist continued to practice Dorje Shugden, his life would be shortened. As we can see, it may not be true because his life is still long and he can control his death. So far, there is no evidence that Dorje Shugden did shorten his life. How could a spirit (as claimed) harm and enlightened being?

So, maybe this claim is to divert people's attention from his promise to obtain Tibet's independence in a stipulated time of which he failed to get.

I do wish that what Ensapa claimed that the ban would be lifted in 5 years is true. Then, the truth will be out and the Dalai Lama could tell his side of the story.

Om Mani Padme Hung!

dsiluvu

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2012, 06:57:02 PM »
This is somehow really hilarious to hear HHDL saying He will not be retiring any time soon. Yes it sure goes to show that Dorje Shugden obviously does not and cannot be affect by HHDL's life and it was just some made up excuses to create a huge drama, like an illusory play. But to what and for what real reasons exactly is the question?

The only sane logical reason i can think of is that Dalai Lama is indirectly creating hype on Dorje Shugden so that more and more will get to know this awesome Protector of out time. As insane as it may sound I agree with the fact that perhaps HHDL is skilfully promoting Dorje Shugden to China because everything that HHDL does not like and discourages, China will surely pick it up and encourage. It's such a brilliant plan that no one could have thought of?

Well much rejoice tht HHDL will live long for He brings so much Dharma to hundreds of thousands of people. If it was not for HHDL, I doubt Tibetan Buddhism would so popular today.

Carpenter

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2012, 07:48:43 PM »
Enlightenment is the final destination of all sentient being, Buddha is an enlightened being, and spirit is just another life form in Samsara, bonding by attachment? Restricted by Karma? So many problems to deal with and how can a spirit able to shorten a living Buddha’s life? Does it make any sense? Unless HHDL is not a Living Buddha, then it will be different story.

So many people worshipping the real spirits, having ill motivation, but how come these people didn’t addressed? Why is Dorje Shugden practitioner being targeted? For anyone who have brain and can think, I’m sure you will understand the reason behind, not difficult, just be logical.

Carpenter

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2012, 07:58:37 PM »
Now, let us use logic to decipher this: If it was true, with the thousands of NKT branches around and them practicing DS strongly, and also huge regions of Tibet practicing Dorje Shugden, shouldnt HHDL be dead by now? If not, what does it say? Why would he want to make such a statement? In fact, 90 is a very old age for HHDL. If you read his biography, none of his incarnations actually hit that age!


I like what Ensapa wrote about the practitioner, it is true don't you think? How can HHDL still be alive when there are so many people around the world.

In reply to Zach about from where the informton of 5 years to release the ban, I dunno either. When so many people are talking about ban lifted, even giving a time frame, 5 years. As from CTA side, if they know we are waiting for these period, do you think they will let it pass so easily?

The link are some information for the time frame.

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1310.0

Dolce Vita

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2012, 12:35:32 AM »
From I read and understand, a Lama's life depends on the students, ie, their Samaya. Broken Samaya will lead to shortening of a Lama's life. Because by not listening to the Lama's instruction, we might jeaopardise his Dharma work and cause many not receiving Dharma.

When HHDL said his life will be shortened if people still practise Dorje Shugden, this does not make sense to me. If the practitioner is one of HHDL's student and he/she does not listen to HHDL's instruction, then yes, his life span will be affected, because samaya is not kept.

But if the practitioner is not his student, I do not see how HHDL's life span will be reduced. There is no Samaya involved in this case.

In Vajrayana practice, having strong Guru Devotion, clean Samaya are very essential in our spiritual practice if we want to gain attainment.

HHDL is now saying he can live until 90 years old, and I heard from his other talk that more and more people especially in Europe, South East Asia, Taiwan, etc are practising Dorje Shugden, isn't he indirectly contradict his statement of Dorje Shugden practitioners can reduce his life span?

tsangpakarpo

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2012, 07:48:22 AM »
I would say HH Dalai Lama is still practising Dorje Shugden...thats why He is still around today. He will be around until the ban is lifted for sure. Hopefully by then HH will explain the ban and the truth prevails! Look at all the great masters who practised Dorje Shugden, didnt they all live till old age? Saying that practising Dorje Shugden definitely has no basis at all! Logically thinking, HH says everything for a purpose we do not have the karma to understand.

Klein

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2012, 10:03:26 AM »
Enlightenment is the final destination of all sentient being, Buddha is an enlightened being, and spirit is just another life form in Samsara, bonding by attachment? Restricted by Karma? So many problems to deal with and how can a spirit able to shorten a living Buddha’s life? Does it make any sense? Unless HHDL is not a Living Buddha, then it will be different story.

So many people worshipping the real spirits, having ill motivation, but how come these people didn’t addressed? Why is Dorje Shugden practitioner being targeted? For anyone who have brain and can think, I’m sure you will understand the reason behind, not difficult, just be logical.

This is so true. Spirits can't affect an Enlightened being's longevity. In this case, it's Chenrezig.

Isn't Bon a paganistic religion in Tibet that worships unenlightened beings? So why isn't this practice banned? Let's be consistent here. According to wikipedia, it states, "Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama, recognizes the Bon tradition as the sixth principal spiritual school of Tibet, along with the Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu, Gelug and Jonang schools of Buddhism, despite the long historical competition between the Bon tradition and Buddhism in Tibet."

It's so obvious that HHDL has a hidden agenda for banning Dorje Shugden's practice. Why is CTA being so harsh to the Tibetan Dorje Shugden practitioners then? Why not just play along for the bigger picture to unveil? Why does CTA create so much suffering to their citizens?

shugdenprotect

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Re: Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2012, 01:31:42 PM »
Thank you all for your many-angled insight. Just reading the thoughts shared is always constructive learning!

The logic and analysis of how Dorje Shugden practice does NOT shorten HH's life is strong because it is supported by result. Not only is HH well into His 70s, He just made an open statement that He will live until he is 90 years-old. What wonderful news. Connecting this to HH's statement (as shared by Dolce Vita) that there is a growing number of Dorje Shugden practitioners in nations where Buddhadharma was not prevalent, we can logically and undoubtedly come to a calculated conclusion that Dorje Shugden practice does not harm the Dalai Lama.

Once again, our enlightened Dharma masters are compassionately working with the tendencies of our minds to communicate effectively with us. Understanding what makes headlines and captures our attention, controversies are orchestrated around Dorje Shugden so that Dorje Shugden enters our lives rapidly during these desperate and urgent time.

I pray that HH will live healthily and happily until 90 and the many lifetimes of cooperation between the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden (from the time of their previous incarnations) will continue to bring pure Dharma to millions.