Author Topic: 11th Panchen Lama (In China)  (Read 6748 times)

kris

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11th Panchen Lama (In China)
« on: April 10, 2012, 12:00:31 PM »
I stumbled upon these videos posted in this website:

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12645
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12659
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12664

The videos are in Chinese and these videos talked about the 11th Panchen Lama in China. As you may or may not aware, there is quite a huge controversial on who is the real incarnation. China claimed Gyaincain Norbu as the real incarnation, while HH Dalai Lama claimed Gedhun Choekyi Nyima. Just google and you will find quite a lot of write-ups on this controversial.

I have heard about this controversial quite a few years back but never bothered to find out more. Thanks to the webmaster of this website for posting the above videos, and they got me interested to find out more about this controversial.

Anyway, just remember these videos are created by China, so.. :)

RedLantern

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Re: 11th Panchen Lama (In China)
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2012, 04:12:03 PM »
There's a controversy dispute about the current legitimate holder of the Panchen Lama tiltle.A political and
religious leadership position in Tibet and Tibetan Buddhism.A dispute erupted after the death of the 10th
panchen lama between the Chinese leadership and the exile 14th Dalai Lama which resulted in two competing candidates.The traditional search commitee process involving monks in Tibet was disrupted when the Dalai Lama unilaterally announced his selection of Gedun Choekyi Nyima.The leadership in China spirited
Nyima away to prevent his being taken to India by Dalai Lama supporters and reverted to the Qing Dynasty Golden Urn.Process to select Gyaincain Norbu,who currently fulfills the duties of the Panchen Lama in China.   

dsiluvu

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Re: 11th Panchen Lama (In China)
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2012, 11:10:40 AM »
Since we're on the topic of Panchen Lamas... here's some history on His Lineage

Lineage of the Panchen Lamas

In the lineage of the Tibetan Panchen Lamas there were considered to be four Indian and three Tibetan incarnations of Amitabha Buddha before Khedrup Gelek Pelzang, who is recognised as the 1st Panchen Lama. The lineage starts with Subhuti, one of the original disciples of Gautama Buddha. Gö Lotsawa is considered to be the first Tibetan incarnation of Amitabha Buddha in this line.


The Panchen Lama's political significance
Supporters of Gedhun Choekyi Nyima

Monastic figures had historically held important roles in the social and political makeup of Tibet, and though these roles have diminished since 1959, many Tibetans continue to regard the Panchen Lama as a significant political, as well as spiritual figure due to the role he traditionally plays in selecting the next Dalai Lama.
The political significance of the role is also utilised by the Chinese state. Tibet support groups have argued that the Chinese government seeks to install its own choice of Dalai Lama when Tenzin Gyatso, the current Dalai Lama, dies and that for this reason the Dalai Lama's choice of Gedhun Choekyi Nyima went missing at the age of six, to be replaced by the Chinese state's choice, Gyancain Norbu. If this tactic is accurate, the announcement made by the Dalai Lama on 10 March 2011 that he will step down from his political role may result in a change of policy regarding the two disputed candidates.

So you cannot help but wonder... perhaps this is to make way for the next patron of Tibetan Buddhism... and who else could be next best after His Holiness... who else could garner the same world recognition and represent Tibetan Buddhism globally if it's not the Panchen Lama Gyancain Norbu. No doubt China has already started to heavily promote him in the global arena.

Dolce Vita

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Re: 11th Panchen Lama (In China)
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2012, 02:10:27 PM »
The same situation happens to the 17th Karmapa as well, there are 2 Karmapas being recognised by different authority. One is recognised and supported by HHDL and Chinese government and another one is recognised and supported by Sharmapa who historically has been the one responsible for recognising and enthroning the Karmapa.

I do see the possibility of having 2 reincarnations, it is mentioned in the text that an enlightened being is able to manifest into many emanations as long as it is for the benefits of all sentient beings. If HHDL going against Dorjes Shugden is for a bigger picture, could it be that the case of 11th Panchen Lama and 17th Karmapa are also for a bigger picture? if it is not because of this controversy, I guess not many people outside of Tibet will know about Panchen Lama and Karmapa.

By the way, it is believed that Karmapa is the emanation of Avalokiteshvara (so is HHDL) and Sharmapa is the emanation of Amitabha (so is Panchen Lama). While they are from different schools, they are actually the same mind streams.

sonamdhargey

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Re: 11th Panchen Lama (In China)
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2012, 02:25:35 PM »
The same situation happens to the 17th Karmapa as well, there are 2 Karmapas being recognised by different authority. One is recognised and supported by HHDL and Chinese government and another one is recognised and supported by Sharmapa who historically has been the one responsible for recognising and enthroning the Karmapa.

I do see the possibility of having 2 reincarnations, it is mentioned in the text that an enlightened being is able to manifest into many emanations as long as it is for the benefits of all sentient beings. If HHDL going against Dorjes Shugden is for a bigger picture, could it be that the case of 11th Panchen Lama and 17th Karmapa are also for a bigger picture? if it is not because of this controversy, I guess not many people outside of Tibet will know about Panchen Lama and Karmapa.

By the way, it is believed that Karmapa is the emanation of Avalokiteshvara (so is HHDL) and Sharmapa is the emanation of Amitabha (so is Panchen Lama). While they are from different schools, they are actually the same mind streams.

Agreed. Such beings can have many emanations. The Panchen Lama is chosen by the Chinese Government instead of the traditional method is for political reasons. The Chinese government want to control the religion by controlling the religious authorities.

diamond girl

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Re: 11th Panchen Lama (In China)
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 06:00:18 PM »
I have always had this opinion and I still maintain it - Religion and Politics should NEVER mix. So much in history example in England and Spain, which proves this. So much damage was done in history. Why can't the Chinese and Tibetans see this? Why are they so backward and never learn from other countries? These countries where damage and ruins came from mixing religion and politics have today flourished to be countries which are developed and people have personal freedom because they have separated religion and politics!

I found this video on the Panchen Lama controversy. It is not the usual type with classical tibetan music but done by an America sitting in his living room. Interesting and different...

Communist China kidnapped Tibet's Panchen Lama Small | Large
 

dsiluvu

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Re: 11th Panchen Lama (In China)
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2012, 09:22:28 PM »
Well whether CTA/Tibetans like it or not... the Chinese chosen Panchen Lama is growing up real fast and like I said China has started to "promote" him around the world - perhaps to prep him to lead after HHDL passes?

The young Tibetan chosen by China as the Panchen Lama, Tibet's second highest spiritual leader, has made his first appearance outside the mainland on a trip to Hong Kong.

Gyaltsen Norbu, 22, spoke at the third World Buddhist Forum amid strict security measures to avoid disturbances aimed at humiliating him, after 30 Tibetans have set themselves alight over the past year in protest against Chinese rule.


He was named by Beijing as the reincarnation of the Panchen Lama when he was six, but is not recognised by followers of the Dali Lama, who lives in exile.

Wearing crimson and saffron robes, the Panchen Lama spoke about the Dharma, the teachings of Buddha, and criticised materialistic technology.

"Current society values external science and technology over the inner sciences," he said at the conference attended by more than 1,000 monks, nuns and scholars from 50 countries.

"The three vices contaminate the self. The sins spread and [spiritual] corruption becomes rampant. The body loses balance and the environment is tainted. Disasters spread, disease spreads, wars become more rampant."

He did not mention China or call for an end to the self-immolations that have been taking place in Tibet and Tibetan areas of China.

Norbu has been educated under the guidance of the atheist Communist Party since 1995, when he was appointed by Beijing as the reincarnation of the Penchen Lama. The Dalai Lama's own choice, a six-year-old boy named Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, was taken away by Chinese authorities and has disappeared from public view.

A former spokesman for the Tibetan government in exile said that followers of the Dalai Lama were extremely concerned about the real Panchen Lama.

"As far as the Chinese-appointed Panchen Lama is concerned, we feel that China is trying to find a platform for him to be accepted by the larger community, which will not happen," Thubten Samphel said.


Before the speech, Norbu and other Buddhist leaders bowed three times before a 2,500-year-old bone fragment, which is believed t
Hong Kong chief executive Donald Tsang praised the city for its religious harmony. "Hong Kong is an international community," he said. "It has a variety of cultural features and encourages harmony between different religions and ensures freedom of religion."o be part of the skull belonging to the Siddhartha Gautama Buddha, who is regarded by Tibetans as the Supreme Buddha.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/333765/20120426/panchen-lama-china-hong-kong-dalai-buddhism.htm