Author Topic: Kundeling Rinpoche talks about Dorje Shugden and Dalai Lama, April 2012  (Read 11036 times)

Namdrol

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His Eminence Kundeling Rinpoche speaks openly, from the heart and logically about the Dorje Shugden ban. How this ban has affected himself, his students, his life, the lives of Tibetans and practitioners around the world. His perfect command of English, indepth knowledge of the political/spiritual issues within the Tibetan communities makes him a authority on the why the ban was put into place at all. His direct and clear cut explanation would help anyone trying to understand this ban which has caused confusion for millions around the world. This is a must see interview in which the listener can learn so much about inner workings of the formerly known Tibetan Government now named Central Tibetan Administration (CTA). Some of the information Kundeling Rinpoche reveals is heartbreaking as well as shocking, but necessary. Kundeling Rinpoche intelligent talk shows exceptional courage in how he faced the bleakest moments of his life for simply following his heart in his spiritual convictions. He didn’t choose his spiritual path for political reasons whatsoever, but it has become political threatening his life at times. But he remains stalwart and firm in his convictions handed to him by his erudite masters.
 
This must watch interview is moving, informative and at the same time highly necessary to understand why the ban was put into place. You can agree or not agree with Kundeling Rinpoche, but one thing for sure, what he says is compelling and from the depths of his personal experience.
 
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« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 12:13:24 AM by Mana »

LosangKhyentse

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This is an excellent talk. Everyone must listen to it thoroughly.

TK

harrynephew

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Indeed TK this is an excellent talk!

Kundeling Rinpoche presented a down-to-earth recollection of the experiences he had gone through in his life since the ban. I think this is by far the most extensive and detailed talk on the ban.

What stuck out for me in this talk is that Rinpoche really spoke from his heart with no additions(I do not know Rinpoche in person but what he says is exactly how every Shugden monk feels and thinks, it's just that they didn't have an outlet). He spoke that in the early days, he did his practice based on the inspiration of HHDL and it was due to this faith that he went on for many years until the ban came about.

I think in general, Shugden monks keeps a very clear and open mind to whatever's happening and stick to their principles. They tend not to sway onto other agendas such as politics. I applaud them for doing so and I think it is due to the blessings of Dorje Shugden that they upkeep the monastic rules to perfection!

May Kundeling Lama live long in order to give freedom and peace to all!
Harry Nephew

Love Shugden, Love all Lamas, Heal the World!

triesa

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It is great to see so many high lamas talk openedly about  the Dorje Shugden Ban.

Kundeling Rinpoche has made the point very clear that the anti sentiment against Dorje Shugden and Shugdenpas is purely based on jealously and actions of practitioners who are not really real practitioners. Becasue "real" dharma practitioners would never create schism and harm to their own tradition or other traditions.

He stated clearly that each tradition (he preferred to use the term tradition rather than sect) has their unique dharma protectors and as practitioners, one must stay true to their lineage in order to get the blessings. So it is basically a rediculous statement for any other traditions to critizise the Gelupas as sectarian.

The fact that Dorje Shugden is "singled out" by the Dalai Lama as the casue for harming the freedom of Tibet is also illogical. Kundeling Rinpoche said this is the politcal agenda behind Dalai Lama as he plans to unite all four traditions and be the ultimate spiritual leader  in the event he could return to Tibet. Dalai Lama understands that the chances for him to be the political leader in Tibet would be impossible as Dalai Lama has opted for autonomy for Tibet in China.

I can sense shock, disappointment, and tremendous saddness in Kundeling Rinpoche as he mentioned that all the works he has been doing is for HH the Dalai Lama. The lies and contradictory statements about Dorje Shugden were made by no other person but the one he has been working for, this has casued him much pain. He could only carry on what he is doing because of his strong conviction to Dorje Shugden and his re-collections of what HH Zong Rinpoche said on the prophecy that there would be such conflict in the future.

Namdrol, thank you for sharing this post, to hear the first hand experience of Kundeling Rinpoche on the ban reaffirm again that we should all continue to work hard to lift the ban!



Lineageholder

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Hi Namdrol,

I'm wondering how old this is?  Is it really 2012?

Kundeling Rinpoche doesn't say anything about the new Dorje Shugden monasteries or all the stuff that happened in 2008, so I'm guessing that this interview is pre-2008?  Or am I wrong?

tsangpakarpo

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I was listening attentively throughout the 1 hour and so of the video. Although I disagree with Kundeling Rinpoche on why the Dalai Lama banned Dorje Shugden's practice but I have tremendous respects for him for openly practicing Dorje Shugden.

Not only does he practice openly, he speaks out for all Dorje Shugden practitioners as well! He was so bold as to file a civil suit against the current Dalai Lama. I do not agree with that but it shows how dedicated and devoted Kundeling Rinpoche is to Dorje Shugden. He would do anything just to protect practice of this Uncommon Protector!

In general, I respect all Lamas who did not give up Dorje Shugden's practice. So much hardship they had to go through. I was almost in tears when Kundeling Rinpoche mentioned many of his friends stopped speaking to him and supporting him.

I can't wait for the ban to be over!!!

Lineageholder

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I'm just bumping this in the hope that Namdrol will answer my question.

Is this a recent interview or is it a few years old?  What year does it come from?

Namdrol

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I'm just bumping this in the hope that Namdrol will answer my question.

Is this a recent interview or is it a few years old?  What year does it come from?


Atually I am not sure when this interview was recorded, it is from http://www.youtube.com/DSnews

shugdenpromoter

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What stood out the most for me in this video with Kundeling Rinpoche is

"In 1989, HH realised that it is IMPOSSIBLE to demand the Independence of Tibet. HH has to renounce the idea because he has been propogating FREE TIBET since 1959. Eventually he opted for FULL autonomy. HH skillfully put the blame on Shugden in achieving full independence of Tibet. HH used a religious issue and turned it political"

I have heard from some friends in the monastery that when they attended HH talk in 1989 or 1988, HH declared that they will be going home ie Tibet soon. All Tibetans monks and laypeople in exile was very excited. Some monks in the monasteries started to pack their bags and was awaiting for a green light to go home. The abbots in monasteries ie Sera, Drepung & Gaden instructed to stop all further constructions of the monasteries cause they are going home. A year passed and no news of such, that was when HH started to banned Shugden.
Does anyone has any video of HH talk when HH told his audience that they will be going back to Tibet soon?

I have heard news about Kundeling Rinpoche (KR) and how KR really despise HH. I do not blame him for the following reasons :-

1. I have been told that KR has suspected the CTA or rather at that time TGIE for poisoning his Guru which was Dagom Rinpoche.

2. How his properties has been snatched unlawfully by Drepung when KR refused to give up Shugden.

KR has gone through difficult times like any other lamas who refused to give up Shugden practice. I am sure the tenacity of his "suffering" is more as KR as far as I have heard is very VOCAL in his opinion of HH (shown in the video).

 

shugdenpromoter

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I was browsing through the forum and discovered another post with regards to Kundeling Rinpoche.

A snippet of what I thought was interesting in that interview ;

Tibetan history is complex and confusing. The misuse of Buddhism in the political spheres of Tibetan society, the Lhasa government’s conflict with and over-dependence on Mongolia initially and China eventually, were historically responsible for Tibet’s p olitical complexity and unclear identity.

The 14th Dalai Lama initiated the Tibetan ‘freedom movement’ given the necessity he felt to achieve a position of undisputed infallibility of spiritual and temporal leadership. But he himself with a stroke of his pen went ahead in 1988 in the European Pa rliament in Strasbourg to sign off Tibet’s independence. It is here that he changed his stand - from the demand for Tibetan independence to the demand for Tibetan autonomy. This fact was not publicly known until after the ban on the Dorji Shugden spiritu al practice was announced in early 1996.

In exile the Tibetans could not achieve democracy and unity. What would Tibet look like if the Dalai Lama and his fanatic band of watchdog organisations and followers were in power? It would be a fascist regime, slaughtering opposition and dissidence, mu tilating the limbs and gouging out the eyes of political opponents of the Dalai Lama! The history of Tibet shows that what I have just stated is not an exaggeration. Finally, is there a White Paper on Tibet’s proposed development which the Dalai Lama or his government in exile has brought out? All claims by his exile administration are mere propaganda. This is what I mean when I say that the movement has no substance!

When I heard about the witch-hunt being launched by the Dalai Lama’s government in exile, and the public attacks, slander, and abuse of the leaders and followers of Dorje Shugden (who were initially supporters of the Dalai Lama, including myself), I was horrified. This person whom we believed to be the embodiment of purity, peace and compassion was nothing but an ordinary man bent on consolidating his powers by destroying opponents by all means.


You can read more here :-

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=458.0

LosangKhyentse

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Let's pray and send good energy Kundeling Rinpoche stays safe. Because of his open criticisms to the Dalai Lama and CTA, his life would be in danger. How is that possible? It is possible sadly.

Within Tibetan society you are NOT ALLOWED to criticize Dalai Lama in any manner as it will be equal to treason. Democracy is spoken about within CTA but far from it. You have no one within CTA versed in democratic law.

There is no such thing as a lawyer or court of law in the Tibet prior to 1959 and now in exile. That should speak volumes.

TK

Ensapa

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Let's pray and send good energy Kundeling Rinpoche stays safe. Because of his open criticisms to the Dalai Lama and CTA, his life would be in danger. How is that possible? It is possible sadly.

Within Tibetan society you are NOT ALLOWED to criticize Dalai Lama in any manner as it will be equal to treason. Democracy is spoken about within CTA but far from it. You have no one within CTA versed in democratic law.

There is no such thing as a lawyer or court of law in the Tibet prior to 1959 and now in exile. That should speak volumes.

TK

This is a really shocking piece of information about the CTA: no lawyers? no court? What is going to happen if there are people who are accused of a crime that they did not commit? how many people have died of such similar methods? If evidence are fabricated, witnesses bribed, wouldnt it be extremely easy to put to death a hated enemy using the law? Is this how Reting Rinpoche died?

As the rest of the world progresses, CTA declines considerably, and they cant seem to improve even though HHDL keeps pushing them forward but they seem to want to remain in the past with no improvements whatsoever and they do not seem to mind not improving and still sticking to the old ways of thinking and doing things even though  times and the situation itself has changed....

As for Kundeling Rinpoche, I really do hope that he stays safe from those fanatical supporters of Dalai Lama who do not apply reason or the teachings to their minds or their actions, to actually have compassion towards people who criticize their teacher (from their perspective, with the teachings applied) and this shows what kind of people they are to bring down their teacher's name.

It always perplexes me that people can do so much negative things in the name of their teacher and how they would rather commit violent acts against people who are against their beliefs or political views than to apply the teachings just for once, or even improve as people as a whole by actually showing grace to people who are against them. They really have to wake up and realize this is not Tibet anymore.

vajratruth

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As I was listening to Kundeling Rinpoche's answers during the interview I could not help but be impressed that here was a leader that really seemed to have understood what was truly going on, and could articulate his views based on logic. I did not get a sense that there was any personal reprisal in his stance against the Dalai Lama but rather the Kundeling Rinpoche was defending his lineage and in the process, seeking for truth to be told. Kundeling came across as being very sure of his stance and therefore virtuous in his decision to stand against the Dalai Lama.

I always held on to my faith that HHDL has a "bigger picture" in mind when HH played the ban card and I continue to believe that HHDL is the emanation of Chenrezig. However, yet again I find it obscene what devotees of Dorje Shugden has had to undergo all these years. I also cannot dismiss the very credible points raised by Kundeling Rinpoche in argument against the validity of HHDL's ban on Dorje Shugden practice.

I cannot help but wonder if the leader of the Tibetans in exile should have all the qualities found in this great and erudite scholar.

Here is the link to very interesting facts about Kundeling Rinpoche:

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=2119

michaela

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I may not agree with Kundeling Rinpoche as to what makes Dalai Lama put the DS ban in place (it does not make sense to me that Dalai Lama used DS as a political scapegoat while HHDL himself has been a DS practitioner).

Knowing the implication of the ban, I can understand, don't put blame or judge the DS practitioners that are not speaking up openly - I am one of those who does not speak up.  However, I do admire his courage and have a lot of respect for him for speaking up his thought and against the ban.  He also deserves a lot of respect for maintaining his samaya with his teachers and his protector.  He gave us a lot of insight about what is actually happening inside the Tibetan community as the result of the ban. 

I think that  DS has been protecting him as he is always able to get by and always have sponsors to execute his activities.  I pray to DS that he will keep this brave lama safe.

shugdenpromoter

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Within Tibetan society you are NOT ALLOWED to criticize Dalai Lama in any manner as it will be equal to treason. Democracy is spoken about within CTA but far from it. You have no one within CTA versed in democratic law.

There is no such thing as a lawyer or court of law in the Tibet prior to 1959 and now in exile. That should speak volumes.

This is so true, if it was in the WEST, the officials of CTA would have been prosecuted.

Look at the below link which I was reading a few days ago
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=481.0

I mean news station like BBC and CNN would have highlighted it big time as it has got to do with human rights.

This is so ridiculous as their own government (CTA) can't even provide the Tibetans with proper travelling documents (passport). And most Tibetans has migrated overseas to the West holding other nationality passport, those who can afford. The government should look into matters like this instead of spending their time and effort in bashing Shugden.

Therefore, this website is important as it shows that the world is watching and CTA needs to be wary of this. They might be demoted to just Central Tibetan Clerical Office (CTCO) with 6 to 10 Tibetan officials who think they are so important in their deluded way.

TK