Author Topic: Can you prove that karma does not exist?  (Read 20804 times)

Carpenter

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Re: Can you prove that karma does not exist?
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2012, 06:45:05 PM »
Karma is the result of our action, what we did and what we received. Karma is not something visible that everyone can see. But not able to see it doesn’t mean it does not exist.

People who does not believe the existence of Karma, is just like they don’t believe the existence of electricity, why? Because electricity is also not something we can see, even though Televisions, computers, washing machines, fridges, etc, etc is already the prove of electricity, this is the fact, and it is a undeniable fact, but if there are people that still insisted that electricity does not exist, what can we do?

When someone that is so insist on denying something, there is only one explanation, fear. It is because of their fear on something, they are afraid of facing it, so they deny, they refuse to face it even though it is already right in front of them. So, if they accept what karma is, they have to step out of their current ‘comfort’ zone. They are afraid of change.

With such action, it is just a pure proof of ignorance and selfishness.

lotus1

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Re: Can you prove that karma does not exist?
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2012, 10:05:52 PM »
The more I believe in past & future life, the more I cannot prove that karma does not exist. A lot of time if we only look into one life time, we will question on why we cannot see the effect of a particular cause and start to doubt on Karma. For example, why someone who has been stealing and cheating but still lives in a very rich and comfortable life? Why a person who does not commit any harmful sin but still so poor? Why a child who is innocent but is born retarded? why? why? why?

However, if we know there is past and future life, we would be able to link all these are due to Karma, the law of cause and effect. Karma : Actions + Conditions/potentialities = Effects
The effect may not ripen in this life time, but in future life.

From Lamrim, by developing believing faith in the law of cause and effect, it’s the root of all health and happiness. This is so true! The law of karma is not negative! It is positive as it gives us hope and shows us the way to do something to get to our desirable future! I am thankful for having this chance to learn  Buddhism which is full of wisdom! 

hope rainbow

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Re: Can you prove that karma does not exist?
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2012, 12:41:03 PM »
When someone that is so insist on denying something, there is only one explanation, fear.
It is because of their fear on something, they are afraid of facing it, so they deny, they refuse to face it even though it is already right in front of them.
So, if they accept what karma is, they have to step out of their current ‘comfort’ zone.
They are afraid of change.

Thanks for your post Carpenter, I just had to repeat it.
I agree with you, when we realize karma, we fear, we fear greatly, and one of the reactions in front of fear is denial, we build up a little imaginary world and we put our mind into it.

And we nurture those people around us that tell us: "there is no karma."

This little imaginary world may also be shared by a very large group of people giving us the impression that this world is the reality on the basis of the fact that many of have our mind in it.

Karma does bring about fear.
In fact, karma must bring about fear.
A healthy fear.

What is the antidote to that fear?

Positive Change

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Re: Can you prove that karma does not exist?
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2012, 01:47:44 PM »
If we know there is past and future life, we would be able to link all these are due to Karma, the law of cause and effect. Karma : Actions + Conditions/potentialities = Effects
The effect may not ripen in this life time, but in future life.

From Lamrim, by developing believing faith in the law of cause and effect, it’s the root of all health and happiness. This is so true! The law of karma is not negative! It is positive as it gives us hope and shows us the way to do something to get to our desirable future!

The law of karma exist whether or not we believe in it... is entry level of Buddhism, even if we do not understand with great clarity the more complex teachings on karma we must understand that our actions will bear effect and that our current experiences are effects from previous actions.

This pre-requisite is a preliminary to even taking refuge.
Why would one take refuge without an entry level of understanding of karma?
Why would one stop killing and lying?
Why would one renounce ignorance and aim for wisdom?

The realization of karma makes the problems VERY clear to us.
And the solution to karma (the antidote to fear that HR is asking the nature of) is the 3 jewels.

Fear of karma.
Faith in the 3 jewels.
That is the basis for the Buddhist refuge.

So if fear remains, it must be that we have not developed faith in the solution enough.

Carpenter

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Re: Can you prove that karma does not exist?
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2012, 08:23:50 PM »
To extend further on what Positive Change has just mentioned.

I agree on the solution to overcome fear is having faith, but in order for us to have faith, we need to have dharma first, when our dharma knowledge gain, our faith in Dharma will also increase. Learning Dharma and practicing it is the only way to the exit.

So if fear still remain that cause the denial again, it shows that Dharma did not really go in.

negra orquida

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Re: Can you prove that karma does not exist?
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2012, 12:43:36 AM »
Quote
Karma does bring about fear. In fact, karma must bring about fear. A healthy fear.

What is the antidote to that fear?

I agree with Carpenter, that the antidote to fear is faith and knowledge.  We may fear to believe in karma because we assume that only negative things will arise from having such belief.  But if we know what are the benefits to believe and act according to the law of karma, we will find that it is a very positive and powerful piece of knowledge to have.  Once we truly understand the workings of karma, we can control our rebirths!

I think when people don't want to believe in karma because they think it is "scary", it is because they don't want to change their habits.  Actually we should view karma as a roadmap out of samsara.  Believing in karma is the basis for believing that if you do good, you will go to heaven; if you do bad, you go to hell.

yontenjamyang

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Re: Can you prove that karma does not exist?
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2012, 03:53:12 AM »
You can't prove something does not exist but we can certainly prove that it does.

I quote an logical answer to this from the web:

Yes, you can prove an elephant isn't in your closet, but that's because it's that particular place.

How can you PROVE that striped elephants don't exist?

You'd have to be able to check every place in the world, and every possible elephant.

Even then, it wouldn't be proof, because you may have missed it.

And, of course, we don't know whether striped elephants have ever existed in the past.

Proving that elephants DO exist simply requires finding 1.

You CAN prove that things exist; but you can't PROVE that they don't.

You can have reason to doubt, say, a purple elephant -- since that's just not a color critters like that come in; but it's not proof.

You can prove you have a pen.

Can you prove the pen doesn't think or feel?

Well, no.

But there's no reason to think it does, and much reason to think it doesn't; thus, the reasonable person would reject the belief without some evidence.


I will come back with more later!