Author Topic: This whole buddha mind is confusing  (Read 16626 times)

fruven

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2012, 02:32:19 PM »
I still finding it hard to grasp the following.

So its been said that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's incarnation is back.

But - he incarnated as Dorje Shugden?

So if he is back and teaching again, would he be praying to himself when he did his protector puja?

What if there is an DS oracle where he is, does that mean he prays to himself, and then he takes trance of the oracle to give himself answers to important questions?

Wow... i'm getting a headache trying to make the connections

Roberto,

That's actually quite easy. Yes! He could be the Lama, Protector and Yidam simultaneously! So that means he could be the incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen praying to Dorje Shugden and then performing a sadhana to Yamantaka. They are all emanations of Manjushri! Historically, Manjushri appeared to Lama Tsongkhapa and gave him many teachings. That is like Manjushri teaching himself! In the scriptures, Buddha Shakyamuni taught that the enlightened mind is capable of 'spontaneous magical emanation' and that means, a enlightened mind can emanate out in countless beings to perform a greater amount of work to benefit others.

Thanks for the clarification. I have this puzzling thought too. It's mind boggling, superhero does exist in real life in fresh and blood. Very cool  ;D

brian

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2012, 02:45:36 PM »
Thank you for the explaination too! I believe in Buddha emanates to many other beings to benefit the world, that is also the reason why you do hear that there are usually a few reincarnations of High Lamas. For obvious reasons, they are of a purpose to benefit others in the human realm.

As for this case, it is not surprising to see an incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen to be praying to Dorje Shugden (who is Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen himself) and doing daily sadhana of Majushri and Yamantaka. All are related and of from the same mind, enlightened mind.

Q

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2012, 03:41:41 PM »
I had the same questions too!!! I believe I've asked a few of my Dharma friends before about this question but there was no definite or conclusive answer to it, so I still remained confused regarding this. But I was thinking in the context of why is it that Lama Tsongkhapa was having visions of Manjushri when he is Manjushri himself?!

I think Helena's explanation is really good... on how the Buddha's mindstream is like water, fitted in different vessels (containers) and through this, they show us how to practice. We are really fortunate to be in an era where the Buddha's compassion still shines on us... with incarnations of great Lamas whom compassionately return tirelessly to benefit sentient beings through the Dharma.

Benny

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2012, 04:19:36 PM »
Roberto,

Personally i was confused too when i first tried to grasp this concept of Buddhas having multiple emanations, likely due to my limited Dharma knowledge.

However, as i looked around the world today with all its technological advancement, i found a close analogy that made me understand this concept or phenomenon. I hope my "silly" analogy can help you understand better.

I found it to be very real when i watched a documentary on tv about the internet and virtual reality gaming culture in our society today. Some real hardcore virtual reality gamers actually lives out an alter ego life in those virtual world of their CHOICE and what is even more real is that some actually immerse their life and soul into those virtual worlds in cyber space as their customized "AVATARS" .

Some of these hardcore gamers even become professionals in such worlds that they can generate income for the real world we live in. Some become so obsessed that they "EMANATE" (LOL) MULTIPLE Avatars that exists simultaneously in one "world" (game) or in MULTIPLE worlds (games) !

So Roberto , if a "normal"  hardcore computer gamer who has a mind capacity,  as any of us smucks out here in samsara, can create an Avatar  OR  multiples of them and "live" those "lives" simultaneously.................

Imagine what a BUDDHA mind can do ! In fact there is some scientist who believe that we could possibly be living this samsaric life in a form a " virtual reality " created by all our  COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS !

I hope my 2 cents worth made sense, or at least it made you LOL. Cheers !

rossoneri

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2012, 04:26:58 PM »
And i believed one of the reason for Buddha to manifest/ incarnate into so many forms is to benefit sentient beings in different time and era. How can someone as silly as myself be able to receive teaching directly from Buddha Tsongkhapa Himself. So being a Buddha with compassion and skillful means He tirelessly teaching us through different ways and methods.

ratanasutra

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2012, 06:41:15 PM »
Roberto,

That's actually quite easy. Yes! He could be the Lama, Protector and Yidam simultaneously! So that means he could be the incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen praying to Dorje Shugden and then performing a sadhana to Yamantaka. They are all emanations of Manjushri! Historically, Manjushri appeared to Lama Tsongkhapa and gave him many teachings. That is like Manjushri teaching himself! In the scriptures, Buddha Shakyamuni taught that the enlightened mind is capable of 'spontaneous magical emanation' and that means, a enlightened mind can emanate out in countless beings to perform a greater amount of work to benefit others.

Thank Big uncle, this is very logic and it help me understand things clearly, when i first learned tibetan buddhist i was wondering why are there so many buddha and why many of buddha are menifiestation by one buddha..and so on.. i understand it from their great compassion but still don't really get to the point. your example is make sense and really give light to me.

 


bambi

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 01:43:08 PM »
Roberto,

That's actually quite easy. Yes! He could be the Lama, Protector and Yidam simultaneously! So that means he could be the incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen praying to Dorje Shugden and then performing a sadhana to Yamantaka. They are all emanations of Manjushri! Historically, Manjushri appeared to Lama Tsongkhapa and gave him many teachings. That is like Manjushri teaching himself! In the scriptures, Buddha Shakyamuni taught that the enlightened mind is capable of 'spontaneous magical emanation' and that means, a enlightened mind can emanate out in countless beings to perform a greater amount of work to benefit others.


Oh yes, I thought it sounded familiar. Here you go, an explanation you gave on emanation vs incarnation:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1239.0

Really excites me when I read the question. How logical! Thank you for the explanation. Imagine someone asked me and I go aahhhhh... I would have said.. They are all enlightened beings, full of wisdom and compassion with countless methods to benefit so it doesn't matter whether they are 'praying' to themselves.

Jessie Fong

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 03:40:41 PM »
Confusion - the mother of misunderstandings.

When I first heard of emanations of an enlightened being, I went whoa!  It didn't strike me that it was the enlightened mind that we are talking about.  I thought - how confusing - if there are many emanations, then how do we know who is the correct one?

Thank you for explaining here for the benefit of many others who are still in the dark.

negra orquida

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2012, 04:52:02 PM »
Roberto,

Personally i was confused too when i first tried to grasp this concept of Buddhas having multiple emanations, likely due to my limited Dharma knowledge.

However, as i looked around the world today with all its technological advancement, i found a close analogy that made me understand this concept or phenomenon. I hope my "silly" analogy can help you understand better.

I found it to be very real when i watched a documentary on tv about the internet and virtual reality gaming culture in our society today. Some real hardcore virtual reality gamers actually lives out an alter ego life in those virtual world of their CHOICE and what is even more real is that some actually immerse their life and soul into those virtual worlds in cyber space as their customized "AVATARS" .

Some of these hardcore gamers even become professionals in such worlds that they can generate income for the real world we live in. Some become so obsessed that they "EMANATE" (LOL) MULTIPLE Avatars that exists simultaneously in one "world" (game) or in MULTIPLE worlds (games) !

So Roberto , if a "normal"  hardcore computer gamer who has a mind capacity,  as any of us smucks out here in samsara, can create an Avatar  OR  multiples of them and "live" those "lives" simultaneously.................

Imagine what a BUDDHA mind can do ! In fact there is some scientist who believe that we could possibly be living this samsaric life in a form a " virtual reality " created by all our  COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS !

I hope my 2 cents worth made sense, or at least it made you LOL. Cheers !

I was about to quote Helena's explanation using the water example but u know what.. i think your explanation is is easier to understand and very apt!

I used to wonder why are certain Lamas considered to be "emanations" of certain Buddhas, and i read about how Manjushri (if i remember correctly) emanated as one of Buddha's disciples to ask a question... how does that work? then a friend told me that when people say this or that Lama is regarded as an emanation of a Buddha, it means that the mind of the Lama is the same as that Buddha.  Which is like your explanation of how 1 person can have a few avatars in the gaming world!  The avatars may look and behave different, and do different things but with the same objective (to win, i presume), but ultimately is played by 1 person.

Thanks very much for this analogy, i understand better now :)