Author Topic: Comitted suicide but reborn in heaven?  (Read 10445 times)

Q

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Re: Comitted suicide but reborn in heaven?
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2013, 04:22:46 PM »
After read this story i wonder that how many people will do the same action, to scarify themselves for others. i only see people kill others in order for themselves to survive.
For me, the person who think and act like this have realize  the truth of life and have bodhicitta mind unlike normal people like us.

You made a very nice point here. Not many people would actually recognize that killing an animal itself would be wrong, especially a Butcher's son when he has been brought up in such an environment that conditions him to think that killing is good... after all, it is their way of life which provides for the family.

The very fact that the son of the butcher realize that killing is wrong and refused to live a life of killing... come to think of it, it is very extraordinary by itself. He must be one that has great insights into life, or at least good morale.

However, at the back of my mind, I think that there is always a way to get out of a certain situation. Just like how Buddha himself left the palace to seek enlightenment despite his parent's refusal, he ran away. He never gave up or killed himself... which would be very devastating. So I was wondering if he could perhaps tried to run away or just refuse to kill the animal and die naturally.

What do you think the reason is that he did not just sat at one side of the room and should he have died because his parents refuse to let him out, at least it's not caused by him killing himself? Why? Is it because he fear his mind will not be strong enough to resist killing the sheep at certain point of time being in that room? What are your thoughts?

Positive Change

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Re: Comitted suicide but reborn in heaven?
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 04:50:36 PM »
Being devil's advocate... Perhaps the butcher's son could have just run off instead of killing himself. Would that then spare his the negative karma of taking his own life? Yes I believe there is still negative karma in taking one's own life regardless of motivation. Perhaps the negativity is not that strong but it is wrong nevertheless.

So my point is, if he had not taken his life and ran off instead, would he still have gone to the "heavens" if he lived out his natural life? Perhaps he could have practiced more and gained more attainments and hence actually gain enlightenment in that life. He was an arhat after all... There are many variants that I can think of which would have served a better choice... What does everyone think?

Zach

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Re: Comitted suicide but reborn in heaven?
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2013, 05:13:22 PM »
By purely maintaining the precepts even at the cost of ones life such merit compels you to a higher rebirth.

Big Uncle

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Re: Comitted suicide but reborn in heaven?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 06:01:08 AM »
By purely maintaining the precepts even at the cost of ones life such merit compels you to a higher rebirth.

If I remember correctly that in the Lamrim it states that the cause to take a positive human rebirth requires one to have morality or one that is able to hold one's vows and commitments. So, it means that if one were to uphold our vows and commitments every day, we create a stream of positive merit to take good human rebirth and not just as a human but one that has all the endowments and conditions to practice the Dharma. If one already has problems upholding the little vows that we have, then don't think we would be human in our next life.

apprenticehealer

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Re: Comitted suicide but reborn in heaven?
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2013, 09:34:55 AM »
The story of the butcher's son really made me think of many aspects of life and the path we choose to travel on.

Taking another life is a sin and so is taking one's own life.

The butcher's son had the positive karma to be born as a human being, and being born as a sottapana - had the many virtues in him especially Compassion. He knew that once he killed the sheep, he would be expected to continue killing and taking many more lives. At that point of time, he would probably think it would be better to sacrifice his own life (which is one life ) than to take the lives of many.
 
However , if he could show his parents that he would rather die (as in starving himself), in time, the parents might relent and understand the son's motivation. And perhaps , hopefully, understand that being a butcher is the wrong livelihood.

No parent would want to cause their child any suffering. With determination, reasoning and compassion on the son's part, he could change his parent's threats to supporting him in his belief. He did not have to take his own life to make a point - poignant as it is. And it makes me wonder what sort of karma his parents now have accumulated - carrying the guilt and grief for their rest of their lives.

I do not know if there is a 'heaven or a hell'. But in my simplistic mind , i believe that it depends on the moment of death in that person's mind. If he passes on with peace in his mind, having attained and accumulated good merits and karma in his lifetime - then he 'goes to heaven'. If he has inner turmoil , bringing with him all the negative thoughts and karma that he had committed -  then he 'goes to hell '.

diamond girl

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Re: Comitted suicide but reborn in heaven?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2013, 07:09:06 PM »
I am not sure if circumstances justify suicide but when I first started learning about Buddhism, I heard sad news that a friend had taken his own life. This made me ask about suicide in the context of Buddhism. I registered that if you take your own life you will go to the hell realm. Therefore one does not got to heaven from suicide.

I read this:
All religions:"Suicide is eternal solution for temporary problems"
Buddhism:"Suicide is temporary solution for eternal problems"

I guess it covers what I think... check out others' conversation on Buddhist Views on Suicide

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101017045055AAloBCK
 

WisdomBeing

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Re: Comitted suicide but reborn in heaven?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2013, 03:58:39 AM »
Just to add to the conversation - what is topical in the Tibetan diaspora now is the number of self-immolations in Tibet. These monks and some lay people committed suicide out of their belief to make a stance for Tibet's independence and the return of HH the Dalai Lama. If we look at it superficially - their purpose is not for themselves, so is it a bodhicitta motivation? I actually do not think so because their motivation is for a piece of land - or politics.. it is not to save a life.

If the motivation for suicide is not based on a bodhicitta motivation, would these people who committed self-immolation have a good rebirth or a negative one?
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being