Author Topic: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded  (Read 15530 times)

Mana

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CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« on: January 04, 2012, 02:09:05 PM »
The Tibetan-government-in-exile (now called CTA - Central Tibetan Administration) has been sending letters to monasteries, institutions, organizations probing if certain monks/personnel are practicing Dorje Shugden. We find this act appalling and extremely despicable. No civilized government in the world would write letters to their religion institutions/organizations interrogating if certain people practice certain deities, only a medieval witch-hunting government would abuse their power to do that to intimidate its people.

One of the very few things that Tibet are famous for throughout the world is its religion – Tibetan Buddhism, however, instead of preserving and supporting the monks who dedicate their lives in the monasteries to study Tibetan Buddhism, the CTA goes the opposite way to suppress and persecute the very Sangha that made Tibetans famous in the world, instead of writing letters to encourage, congratulate, support monks who have done great work, excelled in their studies, made the Dharma grow…… the CTA writes letters to interrogate, instill fear, suppress, ostracize the good Sangha/Dharma practitioners who did nothing but practice Dharma sincerely and only have good thoughts always in their mind.

These monks by sweat and toil teach Dharma, conduct pujas, seek sponsorship, gather support to bring huge benefits to the monasteries: building new monasteries, renovate chapels, erect new statues, feed monks, build hostels, help the lay community, so if the CTA wants to nullify all those contributions by ostracizing monks who they deemed “bad”, then the CTA should also return all the contributions, all the money, the roofs, the tiles, the floors, the bricks, the food, the furniture, the fixtures, the statues, the offerings, the thangkas…… to the monks who brought all these to the monasteries. Then it is a fair game. If the monks ostracized by CTA are really bad, then their contributions, everything that they have given before must also be bad/stained/impure, so shouldn’t those money and things be returned as well? Why remove the impure person but keep the impure things brought by them?

kris

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2012, 04:58:19 PM »
CTA's "slogan" is "Restoring Freedom For Tibetans" (http://tibet.net).

Hey, who is going to restore the freedom to practice a fully enlightened deity??

How can you that you want freedom, but don't give freedom to others? Is it Karma in action?

hope rainbow

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2012, 05:08:52 PM »
Brrrr....

From my understanding, the CTA does not seem to create the karmic cause to get Tibet back.
They are doing to their own people what the Chinese have done to the Tibetans.
What can be the result of that?

(in fact the Chinese are not banning deities, so on this particularly, the Chinese are doing a better job in Tibet proper, ironic?)

Brrr...

Galen

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2012, 07:14:11 PM »
Yes it is totally irrational for the CTA to continue to interrogate the Sangha members on their practices. They themselves should know better that protector practice is secret and should not be revealed to anyone. Furthermore, everyone is entitled to their own freedom of choice. So why should they impose onto their people something they do not believe in? Just blatant tyrant behavior.

I do agree with Hope Rainbow that China is doing a better job for the Tibetans as Tibet has progressed in terms of development and there is peace in the region.
 

DSFriend

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2012, 07:41:41 PM »

HHDL announced his retirement in early 2011. Lobsang Sangay elected Kalon Tripa in April 2011 and officially took oath and accepted the position in August, 2011.

So what has Lobsang Sangay been up to?

Lobsang Sangay has been active in seeking international support to pressure china :
Tibetan leader Lobsang Sangay presses US on immolations
( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15568181 )

Good job with seeking international support...but how about starting by establishing more humane policies such as allowing religious freedom for exiled tibetans in India, a land where the government of India allows tibetans to freely practice.

Isn't it a shame that India allows Tibetans to practice as they wish, but Tibetans themselves turn against their own?

With that said, I am still keeping my hopes up high for Lobsang Sangay to turn things around. It's not easy to undo hundreds of years of autocratic rulership under the Dalai Lamas.

beggar

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2012, 08:28:27 PM »
These monks by sweat and toil teach Dharma, conduct pujas, seek sponsorship, gather support to bring huge benefits to the monasteries: building new monasteries, renovate chapels, erect new statues, feed monks, build hostels, help the lay community, so if the CTA wants to nullify all those contributions by ostracizing monks who they deemed “bad”, then the CTA should also return all the contributions, all the money, the roofs, the tiles, the floors, the bricks, the food, the furniture, the fixtures, the statues, the offerings, the thangkas…… to the monks who brought all these to the monasteries. Then it is a fair game. If the monks ostracized by CTA are really bad, then their contributions, everything that they have given before must also be bad/stained/impure, so shouldn’t those money and things be returned as well? Why remove the impure person but keep the impure things brought by them?

An excellent point. So many of the monasteries were built by the kindness of lamas like Trijang Rinpoche, known everywhere in his previous incarnation for his very strong practice and promotion of Dorje Shugden. It is not correct to follow or even be associated with Dorje Shugden, but quite okay to keep the things he has given? If he is evil and bad for doing Dorje Shugden, then the very basis of all his actions must also be tainted, no? Then, the things he has acquired must be through tainted means. If the CTA and their people really wish to remain so pure and obedient and not have any association, then they must remove EVERYTHING and make a clean break. This is only logical and fair.

Of course, the very idea that a government has control over the religious practices of individual monastics is beyond me - how ridiculous. We haven't seen things like this since the Spanish inquisition or the salem witchhunts.


LosangKhyentse

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2012, 08:38:21 PM »

These monks by sweat and toil teach Dharma, conduct pujas, seek sponsorship, gather support to bring huge benefits to the monasteries: building new monasteries, renovate chapels, erect new statues, feed monks, build hostels, help the lay community, so if the CTA wants to nullify all those contributions by ostracizing monks who they deemed “bad”, then the CTA should also return all the contributions, all the money, the roofs, the tiles, the floors, the bricks, the food, the furniture, the fixtures, the statues, the offerings, the thangkas…… to the monks who brought all these to the monasteries. Then it is a fair game. If the monks ostracized by CTA are really bad, then their contributions, everything that they have given before must also be bad/stained/impure, so shouldn’t those money and things be returned as well? Why remove the impure person but keep the impure things brought by them?

Clear and decisive point. If CTA wishes everyone to come clean of Dorje Shugden people. Then all the contributions Shugden people have given should be returned. After all how can you use the items offered by people you have sworn against? Aren't the items given by Shugden people 'contaminated' and would make your practice impure?

If CTA and all those monasteries who swear off Shugden for the sake of honesty and truth, you should return all things given by Shugden people. It is morally and ethically correct.

TK

Ensapa

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2012, 03:19:49 AM »
These monks by sweat and toil teach Dharma, conduct pujas, seek sponsorship, gather support to bring huge benefits to the monasteries: building new monasteries, renovate chapels, erect new statues, feed monks, build hostels, help the lay community, so if the CTA wants to nullify all those contributions by ostracizing monks who they deemed “bad”, then the CTA should also return all the contributions, all the money, the roofs, the tiles, the floors, the bricks, the food, the furniture, the fixtures, the statues, the offerings, the thangkas…… to the monks who brought all these to the monasteries. Then it is a fair game. If the monks ostracized by CTA are really bad, then their contributions, everything that they have given before must also be bad/stained/impure, so shouldn’t those money and things be returned as well? Why remove the impure person but keep the impure things brought by them?

This is a very compelling point for CTA. someone should really submit this instead of asking them not to ban Shugden and to unban it, this should be sent to them instead. Reason being that if they want to expunge the practitioners, they should also return back their belongings and all of their contributions as this makes sense. You cant banish the golden goose and take the golden eggs.

But I guess this shows the intense greed and laziness of the CTA, who prefers to steal the contributions of others rather than working for themselves.

yontenjamyang

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2012, 05:59:24 AM »
Good point, Mana. Even if the landlord evict the tenant, they will not take all the tenant's belonging. This coming from a "government". I wonder, how are they going to get Tibet back? No offense, maybe the condition is set for them not to.
Now that the monks ostracized, have started to rebuild their monasteries, we should help them as much as we could. Perhaps this site could publish a way we could send contributions directly to the DS monks/monasteries.

beggar

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2012, 04:14:35 PM »
I have been thinking about this... and what the CTA might possibly say in their own sorry defence. They may claim that they continue to keep and use these items within the monasteries out of concern and care for Shugden practitioners, as a means for them to collect merit because they are so very "bad" and "wrongful".

However, this logic is also full of holes. Totally illogical! If you cared so much about these people, then in the first place, you wouldn't be forcing them to swear in against their heart practice, something they have held precious and maintained their entire lives, something that they have received from their Gurus, who we all know are held as highest in our practice. If you really cared about these people, you wouldn't ostracize them, deny them medical care, turn them away from shops, ban them from attending the Dalai Lama's teachings (or other Lamas' teachings). You wouldn't make such old holy monks do something so far against their heart beliefs. You wouldn't make old monks do something so damaging that they shake and cry.

Instead, you should be even kinder, even more patient with these people who are supposedly "wrong". Isn't that the heart of so many Buddhist teachings? What about the Lamrim? The eight verses of thought transformation? The many, many lojong teachings which teach us to love our enemies even more? If you  are so concerned for their welfare and the fact that they are doing something "wrong", then all the more you should be welcoming them into your Dharma teachings and gatherings, to teach them, explain, and give them knowledge so they can "correct" their "wrong" ways! If you really believe they are doing something bad, would you just abandon them and kick them out? If you saw an alcoholic, would you kick him out of an Alcoholic Anonymous meeting, deny him any medical help or advice because he is so "bad". No, you'd reach out to help him even more!

Lawrence L

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2012, 05:32:02 PM »
Yes i agree. Im not sure whether u people read this article before, i found this really annoyed me.

http://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/ganden-tripa/the-shugden-affair-i

This is on the Dalai Lama's official web! How could this kind of unfounded artcles/studies be on the Dalai Lama's web?

The Shugden Affair: Origins of a Controversy (Part I)
(Written by Georges Dreyfus)

"...in 1655, Drak-ba Gyel-tsen suddenly died.  The exact conditions of his death are controversial and shrouded in legends...the important point is that Drak-ba Gyel-tsen's death was perceived to be related to his rivalry with the Fifth Dalai Lama.  It was also taken to have been violent and hence the kind of death that leads people to take rebirth as dangerous spirits.  According to standard Indian and Tibetan cultural assumptions, a person who is killed often becomes a ghost and seeks revenge.  " ....


"According to the Shuk-den legend, Drak-ba Gyel-tsen manifested himself as a (gyel-po,) i.e., the dangerous red-spirit [9] of a person, often a religious one, who is bent on extracting revenge against those involved in his death. "....

Is this mean the Shuk-den(Shugden) could choose who he wants to be? the word 'manifested' using by the author is tricky. As i know, only those highly attained Lamas who get rid of samsara are able to choose he wants to be, how he looks like etc. In this sentence, we could see the contradiction clearly.

solely from this point, we could see clearly that the people ban Dorje Shugden as they like. They treat it like a game maybe. I feel like want to shout to the admin of the website: could u please spend more time to make a 'better' story?


harrynephew

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2012, 07:47:13 AM »

These monks by sweat and toil teach Dharma, conduct pujas, seek sponsorship, gather support to bring huge benefits to the monasteries: building new monasteries, renovate chapels, erect new statues, feed monks, build hostels, help the lay community, so if the CTA wants to nullify all those contributions by ostracizing monks who they deemed “bad”, then the CTA should also return all the contributions, all the money, the roofs, the tiles, the floors, the bricks, the food, the furniture, the fixtures, the statues, the offerings, the thangkas…… to the monks who brought all these to the monasteries. Then it is a fair game. If the monks ostracized by CTA are really bad, then their contributions, everything that they have given before must also be bad/stained/impure, so shouldn’t those money and things be returned as well? Why remove the impure person but keep the impure things brought by them?


Clear and decisive point. If CTA wishes everyone to come clean of Dorje Shugden people. Then all the contributions Shugden people have given should be returned. After all how can you use the items offered by people you have sworn against? Aren't the items given by Shugden people 'contaminated' and would make your practice impure?

If CTA and all those monasteries who swear off Shugden for the sake of honesty and truth, you should return all things given by Shugden people. It is morally and ethically correct.

TK


In my point of view, the CTA is only creating MORE CONFUSION AND ITS CAUSES FOR THE TIBETAN PEOPLE. They've been going round every monastery telling people to swear out from their life long practice and by nature it is forcing monks to break their samaya with their Guru.

What's the result? The Tibetans will go crazy and have a confused mind and is unable to think properly for themselves and end up like this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/07/tibetan-protesters-self-immolate-china

Threre have been so many cases of Tibetans and MONKS self immolating for Tibet! What is Tibet when u have the Dharma? Your refuge and Bodhisattva vows are more important than your country! Burning yoursellf up does not move China one single bit and only cause remorse, worry and all negative emotions for the Dalai Lama!

In this case, CTA having downgraded will only snowball to lower states together with their following.

I feel sad when I heard about the self immolation of monks, but when I thought to myself further, the CTA has been creating the same feelings in ostrasized Sanghas, it is only logical to think the same effect will come onto its people.

Guys,
which is worse:
1) forcing a country to move out into exile?
2) killing the sacred Dharma?

H1N1
Harry Nephew

Love Shugden, Love all Lamas, Heal the World!

DharmaDefender

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 05:52:37 PM »
HHDL announced his retirement in early 2011. Lobsang Sangay elected Kalon Tripa in April 2011 and officially took oath and accepted the position in August, 2011.

So what has Lobsang Sangay been up to?

Lobsang Sangay has been active in seeking international support to pressure china :
Tibetan leader Lobsang Sangay presses US on immolations
( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15568181 )

Good job with seeking international support...but how about starting by establishing more humane policies such as allowing religious freedom for exiled tibetans in India, a land where the government of India allows tibetans to freely practice.


Stupid. He thinks he can change the worlds mind, when the Dalai Lama could not?

Instead of suppressing DS, why doesnt he just focus on gaining support for making the Tibetans' lives easier wherever they are in exile, be it India, England, Switzerland, Canada, etc? Throughout history thereve been plenty of displaced peoples whove lost their homelands, and those people just integrated and became nationals of the countries they had to migrate to. FOrgive me but it seems to me you end up much happier if you integrate and accept, than if you refuse to accept your situation and protest against it for decades with no success.

And if you look at what the CTA counts as their successes, its peanuts. Stuff like how they had a talk with some mid-level bureaucrat who made empty promises, or a medal given to one of their own. Come on. A medal versus the billions of dollars of business that countries fight for every single year when they fight to do business in China?

Tibetans need to get with it and realise their immigration was the natural course of history, no matter how tragic the circumstances were which led them to go into exile.

Ensapa

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2012, 12:55:34 AM »
I am still wondering why is CTA not spending any time and effort to improve the living condition of its citizens like any other government and instead pursues really small issues that everyone knows will not bear fruit. Why want independence when you cannot even take care of your own community? This is really a joke in more ways than one. Why not CTA take care of its own citizens, provide amenities and clean up Dharamsala, and show the world, and the Buddhas and Dharmapalas that they are capable of running a country (which they are not doing a good job at all and China is doing a better job than them).

looking at CTA makes me feel  that they really, really need to open their eyes and learn instead of whine about lost independence.

DharmaDefender

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Re: CTA, no wonder you are downgraded
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2012, 12:44:34 PM »
I am still wondering why is CTA not spending any time and effort to improve the living condition of its citizens like any other government and instead pursues really small issues that everyone knows will not bear fruit. Why want independence when you cannot even take care of your own community? This is really a joke in more ways than one. Why not CTA take care of its own citizens, provide amenities and clean up Dharamsala, and show the world, and the Buddhas and Dharmapalas that they are capable of running a country (which they are not doing a good job at all and China is doing a better job than them).

looking at CTA makes me feel  that they really, really need to open their eyes and learn instead of whine about lost independence.

Its a matter of priorities Ensapa. Once they get their heads out of their arses theyll realise no one gives a toss about Dorje Shugden, and the only reason anyone gave a toss is because THEY made such a big fuss (wallies).

Honestly if theyd just shut up about it after the Dalai Lama banned the practice and had just gone about it quietly, whod have ever lifted their eyes away from the atroicities being committed everywhere else in the world? I have to say though, the CTA are usually pretty rubbish about remaining committed to anything they do. In that light their twisted commitment to this ban is both admirable and stupid!