Author Topic: Bribing a policeman, is it stealing?  (Read 10954 times)

Carpenter

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Re: Bribing a policeman, is it stealing?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2012, 06:47:58 AM »
A bribe is something of value offered, given or solicited to influence a person in a position of responsibility to act contrary to his or her duty. The giving or receiving of bribes often means breaking the second and the fourth Precepts and always involves cheating, greed, injustice and law-breaking.

When you beat the traffic law, you are supposed to pay for the fine, because that’s what the law is for. So when we try to get the easy out by bribing the police officers, then we are no different than cheating, we are cheating the law of traffic. By doing this, you are actually creating the cause for you to do the second time, the third time and so on.

In fact, if the police officers are asking money from you, or giving you hint for bribing, that’s enough for you to launch the report towards the police officers. By paying him money, it actually encourages him to do it to other people in the future and such action will create a continuous act of bribery.

Benny

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Re: Bribing a policeman, is it stealing?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2012, 09:17:51 AM »
Of course it is stealing, it is stealing from the Government. Revenue from summonses or fines forms a large percentage of the police department"s income which is meant to finance its operation.

Who is stealing then ? The police officer or the "offender" ? Of course it is the police officer accepting the bribe who is stealing from his employer and the person giving the bribe is the accomplice. Either way both parties are guilty of this corrupt act and that is why it is punishable by the law.

From a buddhist perspective it is also it is wrong to both give and accept bribes or corruption for obviuos reasons. 

bambi

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Re: Bribing a policeman, is it stealing?
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2012, 02:49:59 PM »
I agree with Carpenter. One should not bribe anyone as it is negative karma for the both of you. To manipulate each other and giving to the police what is not his is definitely stealing from the government.

In every country, there are laws and yes there are definitely corrupted people. But for someone who understands the teachings should not do such a thing. It is our fault that we broke the law and we should have responsibility for it. Or else its the same as having the law and having the teachings. We know it but we disobey it. You are also creating the karma for the police to think that it is right and he should keep on doing it and we both know that it will be carried on into his future lives to cheat and the consequences of it.

Well, what is done is done now. One must refrain from harming others just because we want to take advantage of it.  ;D

Jessie Fong

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Re: Bribing a policeman, is it stealing?
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2012, 03:00:43 PM »
I agree with Carpenter. One should not bribe anyone as it is negative karma for the both of you. To manipulate each other and giving to the police what is not his is definitely stealing from the government.

In every country, there are laws and yes there are definitely corrupted people. But for someone who understands the teachings should not do such a thing. It is our fault that we broke the law and we should have responsibility for it. Or else its the same as having the law and having the teachings. We know it but we disobey it. You are also creating the karma for the police to think that it is right and he should keep on doing it and we both know that it will be carried on into his future lives to cheat and the consequences of it.

Well, what is done is done now. One must refrain from harming others just because we want to take advantage of it.  ;D



In this case, we are discussing about bribing a small sum to a policeman.  What about situations where the bribe is much much larger as it calls for a special favor?  There are countries where corruption is so rampant, it's practically a way of life.

What if there is a sense of urgency and you really need that special favor?  Would you "bribe" your way through rather than have to wait ages to get your approval?  What if it is an approval to start a project?  If there is a delay, it would cost you a huge loss. 

What would be the level of their negative karma?



bambi

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Re: Bribing a policeman, is it stealing?
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2012, 04:47:11 PM »
In this case, we are discussing about bribing a small sum to a policeman.  What about situations where the bribe is much much larger as it calls for a special favor?  There are countries where corruption is so rampant, it's practically a way of life.

What if there is a sense of urgency and you really need that special favor?  Would you "bribe" your way through rather than have to wait ages to get your approval?  What if it is an approval to start a project?  If there is a delay, it would cost you a huge loss. 

What would be the level of their negative karma?

Well Jessie, there are many levels of karma and I dare not say that I know. Its too bad that someone have the urgency for something to be done. One can always be nice and friendly to the officials knowing that one need help from them. Not everyone wants to be bribed. Come on, don't tell me you just found out you need to do a project just yesterday and want it to be approved in the next 3 days?  ??? If the government in that country is that bad, I am sure the people will not expect the project to be done super fast knowing the way the government works. Or another way, trust and ask Dorje Shugden for help?  ;D

brian

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Re: Bribing a policeman, is it stealing?
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2012, 05:00:58 PM »
Bribing isn't really cheating for me. It is more of like a cover up for the mistake we made. If we had followed by the law, we wouldn't even find ourselves into that kind of dilemma. This action, bribing as per mentioned can be categorized under cover up and it is a form of escape for people. You are creating negative karma for yourself to be able to runaway with mistakes without having to suffer some form of real punishment by making the shortcut to pay lesser in this sense. You are also creating a negative karma for the person who is accepting bribe because you made him/her cheat/lie so that you can getaway with it. In this sense, the bribe acceptor will be categorized as cheating. Please correct me if i am wrong.

michaela

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Re: Bribing a policeman, is it stealing?
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2012, 10:59:58 AM »
You can see bribing in two ways.  I have lived in several countries.  When I lived in the country that is relatively clean, I went with the rules and paid my speeding tickets and due.  But when I live in a country where no result will be obtained for the longest period unless you pay bribe/ stippend depending on how you look at it, I think it is ok. 

I am giving you a practical example.  A friend of mine live in a developing country.  When a policeman caught her speeding, she refused to pay bribe.  So she got speeding ticket.  When she went to court to get her driving license back, she has to faced layers of buraucracy that require even more bribe if anything wants to get done.  Not to mention that she lost a day’s work and her father scolded her for being stupid.  It is much more practical just to pay on the spot and be done with this.

brian

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Re: Bribing a policeman, is it stealing?
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2012, 11:10:34 AM »
Now it made me think even further. Policeman or whatever officials taking bribe will be considered as stealing because the acceptor took the money for himself instead of helping the government/company collect the sum that the body is supposed or entitled to collect. And this is about cheating the people's money as many would be benefitted from the amount of fines earned from traffic tickets alone. So its cheating for sure.

michaela

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Re: Bribing a policeman, is it stealing?
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2012, 03:00:52 AM »
Now it made me think even further. Policeman or whatever officials taking bribe will be considered as stealing because the acceptor took the money for himself instead of helping the government/company collect the sum that the body is supposed or entitled to collect. And this is about cheating the people's money as many would be benefitted from the amount of fines earned from traffic tickets alone. So its cheating for sure.

Dear Brian

The problem may not be so simple.  As the person offering the money, we are also tempting the policemen to look the other way.  We are acting like Mara.  However, if we do not do so, we are facing more problems. 

It requires the determination from the government to clean these types of issue or otherwise, everybody’s hands are tied.  For us, it really depends on the motivation when we are doing the bribing/ or giving stipends