Author Topic: What does it mean by Surrendering?  (Read 29621 times)

dsiluvu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
What does it mean by Surrendering?
« on: August 04, 2011, 05:11:12 AM »
What does it mean to surrender to your Guru and the Dharma? To what extend would you go?

We have read and probably know in theory from the many Dharma books that real surrender is basically letting go of one's ego, or one's entire body, speech and mind. To me that is a just an empty words if one does not realise it internally. We can say it and no matter how eloquently we put it, but are we in our daily affairs really doing it? Quite the opposite because if we did, we would not be where we are today, we would be attained by now.

However, we know this and if we really open up and let go, we know we can definitely make huge spiritual progress. And so why are we not doing it?

The reality is our egos are too huge and it will take a lot, if not many life times to chip it all away. But never the less we need to start, so for me I think the very first step would be to trust and follow whatever instructions given by the Guru.

E.g. If the Guru says give up on your business, then you should do it and trust it without a doubt. But how many of us could and would we put limits to our "surrendering"?

samayakeeper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
    • Email
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2011, 07:20:56 AM »
I think 'surrendering' starts with the mind instead of the body. Some think it's only about giving up their worldly possessions. But then again, surrendering in one's mind is not easy. It takes tested time spent under the tutelage of the Guru, who patiently and compassionately whittle away our negative habituated mind, making it pliable to be re molded into a positive one. The very fact that we are still here, having to fight with our desires like  insecurities, laziness, selfishness, greed, lust, jealousy, anger, hatred, excessive wanton, etc is proof that we are still trapped in our own prison.

So where and how to begin? Start looking for a qualified Guru, observe him before taking refuge. Does that mean after taking refuge we don't ask but blindly follow? Yes, if our faith is very strong after following and learning from the Guru. Should we ask questions? Yes, if we truly don't know but ask to learn. No, if we have been given logical explanation and have agreed but still not doing or applying. Then it becomes a challenge.

High Lamas may test their students by asking them to give up, say, their house, car, wealth, family, etc. How and what the students answer would help the Lamas to further assist them. In some cases, the lamas may actually put into action what they asked from their students.

Yes, we must start today because tomorrow may not come.

Positive Change

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2011, 07:37:02 AM »
I think 'surrendering' starts with the mind instead of the body. Some think it's only about giving up their worldly possessions. But then again, surrendering in one's mind is not easy. It takes tested time spent under the tutelage of the Guru, who patiently and compassionately whittle away our negative habituated mind, making it pliable to be re molded into a positive one. The very fact that we are still here, having to fight with our desires like  insecurities, laziness, selfishness, greed, lust, jealousy, anger, hatred, excessive wanton, etc is proof that we are still trapped in our own prison.

So where and how to begin? Start looking for a qualified Guru, observe him before taking refuge. Does that mean after taking refuge we don't ask but blindly follow? Yes, if our faith is very strong after following and learning from the Guru. Should we ask questions? Yes, if we truly don't know but ask to learn. No, if we have been given logical explanation and have agreed but still not doing or applying. Then it becomes a challenge.

High Lamas may test their students by asking them to give up, say, their house, car, wealth, family, etc. How and what the students answer would help the Lamas to further assist them. In some cases, the lamas may actually put into action what they asked from their students.

Yes, we must start today because tomorrow may not come.

I agree with what you have said here Samayakeeper... It is true that surrendering of any sort starts from the mind. If we can "give up" our attachments from our minds, the rest is natural. Hence your example of how some High Lama's test their students by asking them to give up specific material attachments to see if they truly are trusting of his wishes.

I have heard of one such story whereby the Guru actually asked a student if she would buy him an expensive car... the student answered without question with an ever willing yes and this student was known to be rather prudent with her money. But eventually the Guru then said, "no need... I was merely testing you". That in itself was a cute example of "surrendering" or letting go and trusting your Guru's intructions.

hope rainbow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 947
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2011, 03:06:18 AM »
I was just reading on Samdhong Rinpoche on another topic in this forum, and his extraordinary guru devotion, that is real surrender!
Samdhong Rinpoche did not give up a car or a business, he gave up his practice of Dorje Shugden (at least it appears so) out of guru devotion, and also, he gave up reputation as he has to face anger and resentment from most Dorje Shugden's practitioners, while he is himself a very strong devottee, more: an emanation of Dorje Shugden himself!
Incredibly inspiring guru devotion!
With time, all will see how much Samdhong Rinpoche has helped Dorje Shugden in this way.
So what are WE talking about? WE! When we find it hard to even surrender an attachment to smoking cigarettes... It's good to put things in perspective sometimes.

dondrup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 07:33:37 PM »
I feel that surrendering means we give our preoccupation with the Eight Worldly Concerns.  When we truly surrender, we will find it easy to serve our Guru. We will become adaptable to change.  Rather than working against our karma, we flow with our karma. When we surrender, we become our own master than being the slaves to our delusions - the three poisons.

Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2011, 08:27:48 AM »
I think real surrendering in relations to Guru devotion is practicing it with the Nine Attitudes:-

1. Be like an obedient son
- Act exactly in accordance with the guru's advice.

2. Even when maras, evil friends and the like
Try to split you from the guru,
Be like a vajra. Inseparable forever.

3. Whenever the guru gives you work,
No matter how heavy the burden,
Be like the earth. Bear it all.

4. When devoting yourself to the guru,
Whatever suffering occurs,
Be like a mountain. Immovable.

5. Even if you are given all the difficult tasks,
Be like the servant of a king
- Perform them with an undisturbed mind.

6. Abandon pride.
Be like a sweeper
- Hold yourself lower than the guru.

7. No matter how difficult or heavy the burden,
Be like a rope. Hold the guru's work with joy.

8. Even when the guru criticizes, provokes or ignores you,
Be like a faithful dog
- Never respond with anger.

9. Be like a boat
- Never be upset to come or go for the guru At any time.

I think this is real surrender and the recent example would be Samdhong Rinpoche and what he did with just one instruction from his Guru.

kurava

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
    • Email
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2011, 12:30:43 PM »
Well said Big Uncle.

It's not easy to put the Nine Attitudes into practice. However ,if we have checked out the guru and take him as our Guru because we are 100% convinced that his ultimate goal is to benefit us; then I should think the Surrendering would be "easier".

It's like how we surrendered to our parents' instructions when we were young. Some times what they asked us to do were so painfully against our wishes but we gave in grudgingly because we know  - it's for our own good !  ;D

Reena Searl

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2011, 06:02:49 PM »
To me, surrendering starts from mind and action.
To surrender not only give up attachments from our minds, our actions to show our commitments and results show transformation.


Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2011, 04:02:44 AM »
Real surrender begins with the mind. Once, we have let go of criticism, resistance and pride (we think we know better), then the Lamas instructions will sink in and we get the blessing as we carry out the instructions happily. However, we don't let go of the aforementioned, than whatever we do, we do it grudgingly and the blessings will not come and most likely, the result of the instructions will not fall through, we give up halfway or we will meet with even more inner and outer obstacles because of the lack of merit. Hence, our Dharma practice will not bear fruit.

WoselTenzin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2011, 09:01:30 PM »
To me, surrendering starts from mind and action.
To surrender not only give up attachments from our minds, our actions to show our commitments and results show transformation.



I really like what you said RS.  Surrendering begins from the mind, put into action by our change in attitude although it may be superficial in the beginning but it becomes real when it becomes natural to us.  Giving up attachments is only part of the process of surrendering.  Results showing transformation is the real measure.  If we truly surrender to our guru and Dharma, we will put Dharma into practice and overcome all our obstacles.  Consequently,  transformation is a natural result.

pgdharma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2011, 03:21:26 PM »
To me, surrendering starts from mind and action.
To surrender not only give up attachments from our minds, our actions to show our commitments and results show transformation.


Yes surrendering starts from mind and putting that transformation into action which eventually leads to  results.

DSFriend

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2011, 05:08:24 PM »

Yes surrendering starts from mind and putting that transformation into action which eventually leads to  results.

It sure does take faith as mentioned by quite a few in here..and transformation starts from the mind.

During challenging and tough times, I have experienced numerous set backs, and felt with much despair and disappointment that I have not progressed much at all in dealing with difficulties.

If surrendering is to start from the mind, then we need to work on the mind. We ought to reprogram/re-educate our minds so that it starts to view things differently to bring about a different action and result. Thus, studying and contemplating on the buddha dharma is so important
to help us build a strong foundation to even properly start to think why we would want to "surrender".

vajrastorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2011, 11:34:23 AM »
Yes, surrendering is surrendering our ego. Clinging to our ego  is the root cause of our suffering. The best way of surrendering the ego is through the Practice of Guru Devotion.

As has been quoted above by BU, Guru Devotion entails our following all of our Guru's instructions no matter how difficult it is to do so, no matter what suffering it entails.

When we can train our mind to the level that it sees the Guru as a Buddha, then we will know that all of the worst, most difficult tasks given to us are given to cut the ego in us and to increase our selflessness. It is like a 'short cut' to transforming the mind from negative to positive.

Hence, we must fight our ego's resistance and go all the way to total surrender. Time is not on our side. We have only this precious human life which is fast running out. [(sigh) I wish and pray that I could keep this train of thought firmly in my mind.Why is it so daunting to do so? My ego rearing its ugly head as always].

triesa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2011, 12:21:36 AM »
Try the Eight Versus of Mind Transformation....it is a good way to start surrending our "ego' , try reading it on a daily basis, it helps because every single day, we will be able to practice any one of these eight versus.

pgdharma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
Re: What does it mean by Surrendering?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2011, 03:18:37 PM »

Yes surrendering starts from mind and putting that transformation into action which eventually leads to  results.

It sure does take faith as mentioned by quite a few in here..and transformation starts from the mind.

During challenging and tough times, I have experienced numerous set backs, and felt with much despair and disappointment that I have not progressed much at all in dealing with difficulties.

If surrendering is to start from the mind, then we need to work on the mind. We ought to reprogram/re-educate our minds so that it starts to view things differently to bring about a different action and result. Thus, studying and contemplating on the buddha dharma is so important
to help us build a strong foundation to even properly start to think why we would want to "surrender".
Yes it is not easy and it is challenging. But it is a path worth taking.