Author Topic: Giving Up  (Read 26926 times)

Big Uncle

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Giving Up
« on: July 21, 2011, 02:24:23 PM »
"When the going gets tough, the tough gets going."

This was what my dad used to tell me when I was young. It was his way of inspiring me to work harder and not let situation and circumstances stand in my way. Unfortunately, I didn't really take his advice to heart and I have been a spoilt brat and often chose the easier way out. I found lots of excuses that I tell the world and mostly to myself in order to avoid working hard, facing myself, my short comings and so forth. I am hitting my 40s now and it is all coming back to me. I am no where in my relationship, hardly any real friends, and I am stuck in a job that I don't enjoy. What more can I say?

I am fortunate to be learning the Dharma now and in the last five - six years, it has been a hard time coming to terms with myself and what I have been. I don't really harm others overtly because I don't lie, cheat, or intentionally hurt others but my lackadaisical attitude towards work and people have left deep impressions on people. Again, I am glad to have met the Dharma and see the harsh reality now instead of when I am in my 50s or 60s where it would be too late or too hard to change. There's a lot more to be desired from my so called transformation and the road is tough one but it is well-worth the effort.

Sometimes, it gets so tough, I wanna give up. I wanna just take the easier way out because it is so tempting and alluring. I am fortunate to have people who truly believe in me and care about me. Otherwise, I would have given up. At times, it comes to me every single day but I fight it because of loved ones. Well, what's my message? Never give up on our practice no matter what disappointment we see in ourselves or others. Our practice should be worth more than these petty disappointments.

WoselTenzin

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2011, 02:59:57 AM »
The test of real spirituality is to continue to go on when the going gets tough.  Giving up is the easiest way out. It simply means we don't face up to our problems and don't take responsibility. 

All of us have things we regret about from the past.  There is always things that can be done better, advice that should have been heeded, more effort that should have been put in and that's is all true.  But you know what, that is now the past so no point lamenting over it.  It will only be demoralizing and a complete waste of time.

If we have realised our past mistakes, acknowledge it and move on and don't waste any more time.  Everything is impermanent. Our current circumstances is due to past causes.  If we create the right causes now, our results will be different in the future.   

 

triesa

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2011, 04:32:32 PM »
Everyone has their stories of difficulties, hard times, tough people, didn't like the work, etc etc, however, I believe when we enter the path of dharma and spirituality, the first vow we take to ourselves should be "Never give up".

We really have to treat this as a one way street, there is no U turn back, because if we do that, the whole process is ruined. Entering a spiritual path or taking refuge in a guru is basically to challenge everyday oneself, we dont come to dharma for an easy job, fun time or meet nice people who are going to shoe shine us, entering a spiritual path, to me, it means that I am going to look at myself  closer and deeper to get rid of all  the negative traits that will bring me down to the three lower realms. It does require a lot of self determination.

Yes, when the thought of giving up strikes the mind, I would tell myself, just let the moment passes by and come back up again.


Helena

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2011, 05:57:42 PM »
On a daily basis, there are thousands of inner dialogues that go on inside our minds. Sometimes we get more dejected when we really start engaging into that pessimistic conversation within our heads when times are truly challenging and tough. This is where the real danger lie. The inner dialogues inside our minds can kill us off even before anything else can take place.

It all happens inside our heads first and foremost. We play out different scenarios in our heads and then they become actions, and our karma is sealed in that deed.

Hence, our minds can become our scariest prison or our launching pads for our greatness to manifest.

It all begins with the conversations we have with ourselves inside our heads.

If we stop and not engage in it, and take a step back and just observe, we will begin to see how our maras play tricks on us. Some tricks can lead us to do things which we will regret much later and then there is no turning back. Therefore, I always find it helpful for me to step back and stop engaging in any more conversation with the negativities inside my head. None of them are helpful anyways.

At the end of the day, it is the tough and challenging things that we need to go through that will break our barriers and take us into a higher level. After all, if we don't want to break those barriers, they will only gather more strength and become more difficult over time. Nothing stays easy or the same. Everything accumulates. Especially the very things we hate, detest, dislike and want to avoid.

Break them and we are FREE of them forever.

Isn't that what breakthrough is all about? :)

So, do we want to be broken and remain always broken, or break through and continue to break through the different levels?
Helena

Big Uncle

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2011, 07:25:48 PM »
Perhaps that worked intellectually for all of you to step back and internalize things. For me, it was a long hard road of falling and falling and falling. It was a hard fall each time and what I am saying there will come a time when all Buddhist philosophy and reasoning don't work because the fall was so great or repeated so many times that the cumulative impact is just overwhelming.

Its hard to stand up again and at that moment, the philosophy and reasoning don't work anymore because I feel numb and lost. All is ego at work of course. I know that. We all know that but somehow, the only thing anchoring me is the simple fact that there are people whom I felt still cared and would really be hurt if I did give up. I was lucky that was expressed and I held back. It wasn't a grudging sympathy, it was refreshingly genuine. 

I am definitely not advance in my practice to be able to step back and internalize my inner demons or overcome my immensely negative mind to make the right choices. I was told I knew a lot of Dharma knowledge but in such moments of crisis, such knowledge is worthless unless I had been putting it into practice but I wouldn't be in such situations if I had. At this juncture, it is painfully obvious I had not and feel powerless to utter any words of sincerity to change things. I even felt resentful I knew so much because it certainly didn't serve me at that moment.

I flinch inside and I say very little in conversations with people who jeer, joke or criticize people who had given up the Dharma. I remember a time I would  generously share disgruntled feelings about such people too but not anymore because I had come so close to giving up myself. Someone remarked not too long ago that I am so patient towards this person (that almost everybody else had given up on). I don't think I am patient, I just relate to what they are going through.

dsiluvu

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2011, 06:53:39 PM »
Thank you Big Uncle for the sincere and real sharing experience. Yes you are lucky to see that there are people who genuinely cares for you and whom you love very much to anchor you down in these crucial moments. The choice may seem simple but if we do not have a real solid reasons, the feeling of worthlessness is easy and escaping in the form of giving up seems like an easier part. Sometimes we trick ourselves by thinking we can start fresh, with a clean slate... but unfortunately not as karma follows us like a shadow.

I have had same thought as you many many times. If I do not have people I love to think about...i would also have probably quite and given up on myself. The only reasons I don't is because of those I love and want to or wish to help. Maybe not right away cos I myself have nothing much to show for... but maybe one day. And all I have is hope... and tht is what keeps me going up until now. So I hope you keep up your spirit and remember those who cares for you (although they did not say it, but because you care for them). Doing Dharma is the best way to repay their kindness.... I try to remind this to myself whenever I come to those crossroads.

thaimonk

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2011, 07:52:34 AM »
When I see people who always want to give up, feel sorry for themselves, want tons of sympathy time after time, don't achieve what they promise and still want more sympathy, I want to give up on them. They drain you of your hopes, emotions, feelings and trust towards them. They turn it around and say they had it tough and want to give up, but the truth is they don't know what tough really is. Tough is when you do nothing about your situation.

People who want to give up so easy manifest pure selfishness much more than others. All of us are selfish and the name of the game is to lessen the selfishness. Why indulge, glamourize, talk about it all the time? Why celebrate the failures?  Instead of wasting time talking, groping for sympathies, explaining why you failed, sharing eloquently why you couldn't do it-instead JUST DO IT.

It would be worth more your's and everyone else's time to share why you made it and why you succeeded. And how you did it. I'm not judging here but just we need to wake ourselves up. We can't parasite off of others forever and expect no repercussions. I had my downs many times, what can anyone do for you anyways? You just gotta get up and say I am going to do it so no one else suffers because of me. Compassion in action.

People who wish to give up make others want to give up on them. After all, how come you can give up and others cannot?
As a Buddhist, I am not saying let them suffer and forget about them, but sometimes not giving more attention to their poor me novels and pity parties is the best way to show compassion towards them. After all, if they do something about themselves, old and new friends will all join in again to celebrate their successes. I would.

The only real crossroad in life is to choose me or all sentient beings. If you choose yourself, get ready for another 100,000 pity parties to come in this life alone. Better stock up on party favours now. But if you choose others, then you will go the right way. Every book that is considered really sacred directs us towards others. When we choose others we find strength, acceptance, love, growth, energy, creativity, eventually happiness and we find who we really are. Great bliss. Choosing ourselves has been our downfall from beginningless time. Why choose something PROVEN TO FAIL?

Feeling like giving up is the path back to darkness or remaining in darkness. Choosing to give up is the biggest challenge that we can present ourselves while we have the chance because it shows who we are and who we choose to be. Remember, it's a choice. Be responsible with our choices because only we experience the results. External forces are created by the internal in one way or another. Wanting to give up and worse even several times a day shows how we are still hoping someone to rescue us without any effort from our own.  Sad for the people who believe in you. That will never happen. In the 'real' world, YOU HAVE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN YOURSELF.  Just do it. Don't think and examine anymore. From how many angles more and how many thousands of more times do we examine our laziness? We are lazy and selfish, it's confirmed, so just do it!

I find it funny people want to take the easy way out. What easy way out? To where? Where would it be easy? They don't leave is because where they are now is easy and they know it.  It's like when you change environments, suddenly you leave your old habits in the old place too? Doesn't make sense. What makes sense is honour, integrity, hard work, effort, self worth from results. These are timeless and no one can take it away from you or anyone. If you want them, guess what you gotta do? Work! Do it right from where you are now.



 
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 08:06:49 AM by Mana »

Heartspoon

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2011, 03:09:39 PM »
When I see people who always want to give up, feel sorry for themselves, want tons of sympathy time after time, don't achieve what they promise and still want more sympathy, I want to give up on them. They drain you of your hopes, emotions, feelings and trust towards them. They turn it around and say they had it tough and want to give up, but the truth is they don't know what tough really is. Tough is when you do nothing about your situation.

People who want to give up so easy manifest pure selfishness much more than others. All of us are selfish and the name of the game is to lessen the selfishness. Why indulge, glamourize, talk about it all the time? Why celebrate the failures?  Instead of wasting time talking, groping for sympathies, explaining why you failed, sharing eloquently why you couldn't do it-instead JUST DO IT.

It would be worth more your's and everyone else's time to share why you made it and why you succeeded. And how you did it. I'm not judging here but just we need to wake ourselves up. We can't parasite off of others forever and expect no repercussions. I had my downs many times, what can anyone do for you anyways? You just gotta get up and say I am going to do it so no one else suffers because of me. Compassion in action.

People who wish to give up make others want to give up on them. After all, how come you can give up and others cannot?
As a Buddhist, I am not saying let them suffer and forget about them, but sometimes not giving more attention to their poor me novels and pity parties is the best way to show compassion towards them. After all, if they do something about themselves, old and new friends will all join in again to celebrate their successes. I would.

The only real crossroad in life is to choose me or all sentient beings. If you choose yourself, get ready for another 100,000 pity parties to come in this life alone. Better stock up on party favours now. But if you choose others, then you will go the right way. Every book that is considered really sacred directs us towards others. When we choose others we find strength, acceptance, love, growth, energy, creativity, eventually happiness and we find who we really are. Great bliss. Choosing ourselves has been our downfall from beginningless time. Why choose something PROVEN TO FAIL?

Feeling like giving up is the path back to darkness or remaining in darkness. Choosing to give up is the biggest challenge that we can present ourselves while we have the chance because it shows who we are and who we choose to be. Remember, it's a choice. Be responsible with our choices because only we experience the results. External forces are created by the internal in one way or another. Wanting to give up and worse even several times a day shows how we are still hoping someone to rescue us without any effort from our own.  Sad for the people who believe in you. That will never happen. In the 'real' world, YOU HAVE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN YOURSELF.  Just do it. Don't think and examine anymore. From how many angles more and how many thousands of more times do we examine our laziness? We are lazy and selfish, it's confirmed, so just do it!

I find it funny people want to take the easy way out. What easy way out? To where? Where would it be easy? They don't leave is because where they are now is easy and they know it.  It's like when you change environments, suddenly you leave your old habits in the old place too? Doesn't make sense. What makes sense is honour, integrity, hard work, effort, self worth from results. These are timeless and no one can take it away from you or anyone. If you want them, guess what you gotta do? Work! Do it right from where you are now.

 

This sounds a little bit selfish to me...

Heartspoon

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2011, 03:23:02 PM »
When I see people who always want to give up, feel sorry for themselves, want tons of sympathy time after time, don't achieve what they promise and still want more sympathy, I want to give up on them. They drain you of your hopes, emotions, feelings and trust towards them.


They are suffering big time.
They don't need help after they are enlightened...

Heartspoon

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2011, 03:28:41 PM »

When I see people who always want to give up, feel sorry for themselves, want tons of sympathy time after time, don't achieve what they promise and still want more sympathy, I want to give up on them. They drain you of your hopes, emotions, feelings and trust towards them.



Remembering how they nurtured us, life after life...
Seeing how they are helping us right now...

Heartspoon

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2011, 03:34:55 PM »

When I see people who always want to give up, feel sorry for themselves, want tons of sympathy time after time, don't achieve what they promise and still want more sympathy, I want to give up on them. They drain you of your hopes, emotions, feelings and trust towards them. They turn it around and say they had it tough and want to give up, but the truth is they don't know what tough really is. Tough is when you do nothing about your situation.


 

The truth is they do know what tough really is.
Each time we were suffering big time they helped us.
When we needed their help, they extended it.
And now, that they need us we tell them "just do it" ?

Heartspoon

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2011, 03:56:38 PM »

People who want to give up so easy manifest pure selfishness much more than others. All of us are selfish and the name of the game is to lessen the selfishness. Why indulge, glamourize, talk about it all the time? Why celebrate the failures?  Instead of wasting time talking, groping for sympathies, explaining why you failed, sharing eloquently why you couldn't do it-instead JUST DO IT.


No, people don't want to give up so easy: they are slaves of their delusions and bad karma.
They are suffering so much and hoping to find help from fellow beings.
Getting rid of delusions and bad karma is a very tough job: for most of us it takes aeons to attain liberation.



 

Heartspoon

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2011, 04:16:34 PM »



It would be worth more your's and everyone else's time to share why you made it and why you succeeded. And how you did it.


No, nothing is more worthy anyone's time than to hear from our fellow mother sentient beings when they are suffering: they need
us and we need them to succeed. So, waiting until they made it to hear from them is not an option...

WisdomBeing

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2011, 05:05:00 AM »
heartspoon, you know you can just reply to one post and break it down by putting the [ / quote ] (without the spaces) then your comment then [ quote ]

so that you can insert your comments throughout someone's post rather than making multiple posts? it's a bit confusing to read for me.

Anyway, what thaimonk posted makes perfect sense to me. i don't think it's selfish at all. What thaimonk said was that if we think we want to quit, it is being selfish and i agree with that. We want to quit because we don't want to change the way we do things anymore. We want to quit because working to improve ourselves and getting out of our comfortable habits is just too much hard work. But as thaimonk says, where do we think we can quit to? Out of the pan and into the fire, literally.

Thaimonk's advice is very practical. Instead of talking and meditating about what wasn't working, we should just get on with it.

Agreed that we are all stuck in samsara because of our delusions and negative karma, but now that we know that they are delusions and negative karma and we know what we should do to get rid of it, we have to just get on and do it. If we stumble and fall, we just get up and dust ourselves off and continue. of course it's not easy to break aeons of nasty habits (and boy do i have a LOT) but i really don't see what the viable alternatives are. My health isn't great and i don't know how many years I have left to clear my crap... so let's get shovelling...
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

DSFriend

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Re: Giving Up
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2011, 06:15:36 AM »
People pay quite a lot of money and take out time to go for bootcamps, myself included where you get your @#$ kicked. It would not worth a dime if  the instructors let us wallow and complaint how tired we are and then let us be without pushing us. I have gone through much atheletic training and my coaches were never easy on me.. i can only imagine how hard the international top athletes push themselves to get to where they are.

I cant help but relate my experience to what thaimonk has shared. How much more we ought to not give ourselves reasons to fail when it comes to our practice. It's about setting out minds firmly on our goal,  then obstacles will look smaller and smaller as we get stronger. I have read biographies of lamas who are strict with their students... and it is because of their great love and care for their students.

I may be wrong, but thaimonk you must have seen alot and gone through alot as your sharing and advice is deep and provoking in a good way. much appreciation always...