Author Topic: Tagpu Pemavajra  (Read 17042 times)

vajratruth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Re: Tagpu Pemavajra
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2015, 10:47:52 PM »
Vajratruth, just to clarify, as there is a slight misunderstanding about this subject. People are confusing the following people - Dagpo Kelsang Khedrup, Dagpo Jampel Lhundrup, Tagpu Pemavajra.

Trijang Rinpoche's commentary is to the poem called Infinite Aeons, and the author of that poem is Dagpo Kelsang Khedrup, NOT Tagpu Pemavajra.

Dagpo Kelsang Khedrup was the Guru of Dagpo Jampel Lhundrup who was the Guru of Je Pabongkhapa.

Tagpu Pemavajra was the Guru of Pabongkha Rinpoche who went to Tushita and brought back the  special close lineage Protector teachings.

There are several reasons for the misunderstanding:

1) The names sound very similar, and it is easy to mix up if there is a reference simply as Dagpo Rinpoche for instance.
2) Admin made a mistake in the English translation of Trijang Rinpoche's commentary by putting a picture of Dagpo Jampel Lhundrup instead of Dagpo Kelsang Khedrup

Chokyi Dorje,

Thank you for your input and I must say that I have seen as many references that point to Tagpu Pemavajra as they are those that claim that it was Dagpo Kelsang Khedrup, who authored Infinite Aeons.

Are you able to point me to a definitive authority that supports Dagpo Kelsang Khedrup as the author?

Thank you

psylotripitaka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Tagpu Pemavajra
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2015, 08:23:54 AM »
Vajratruth,

Can you point me to a definitive authority that supports Tagpu Pemavajra as the author?

I don't have any more time to go digging, but I take the following as sufficient definitive authority:

1) Trijang Dorjechang says in his own words in the introduction to his commentary that Dagpo Kelsang Khedrub is the author

2) In the book Heart Jewel in the section on the Dharma Protector, the Venerable Geshe Kelsang Gyatso Rinpoche says Dagpo Kelsang Khedrub is the author, and on the next page uses his name again and gives several quotes from the poem along with beautiful commentary.


psylotripitaka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Tagpu Pemavajra
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2015, 08:38:12 AM »
Vajratruth,

Furthermore, Admin of this website made a mistake in the English translation of Trijang Rinpoche's commentary to Infinite Aeons by putting a picture of Dagpo Jampel Lhundrup instead of Dagpo Kelsang Khedrup who is the actual author of Infinite Aeons.

The picture below is Dagpo Jampel Lhundrup, Pabongkha Rinpoche's Guru whom he spent 10 years receiving Lamrim transmissions from while doing Lamrim retreat. Dagpo Jampel Lhundrup is NOT the author of Infinite Aeons, nor is Tagpu Pemavajra.

If you or Admin need a definitive authority proving that this picture is not the author of Infinite Aeons, you can refer to the following link from the website of the present Dagpo Rinpoche:

http://www.gandenling.org/index.php?page=le_venerable_dagpo_rimpotche&language=english

Scroll towards the bottom and take note of the name associated with this picture.

psylotripitaka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Tagpu Pemavajra
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2015, 11:24:08 PM »
Vajratruth,

Additionally, in Tagpu Pemavajra's biographies on Dorjeshugdenhistory, Treasury of Lives, and other websites, there is not a single mention of Tagpu Pemavajra being the author of Infinite Aeons.

I don't know if you and admin respect the works on Dorjeshugdenhistory website as being a definitive authority, but his biography of Dagpo Kelsang Khedrub also confirms what Trijang Rinpoche and Kelsang Gyatso Rinpoche have said, that Dagpo Kelsang Khedrub is the author. Here is the link if u want to check:

http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/among-shugden-texts-1800a.html

If you have read many times that Pemavajra is also the author, I would be interested to read this. Thank you


psylotripitaka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Tagpu Pemavajra
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2015, 12:20:05 AM »
Vajratruth,

Adding to the confusion of yourself and others, in the Enlightened Lamas Series section, Admin has a short biography on Dagpo Kelsang Khedrub where they use a picture of his disciple Dagpo Jampel Lhundrub. They also say that Dagpo Kelsang Khedrub is the author of Infinite Aeons (which is correct as I've sited).

Have you been able to locate any of the sources you've read saying Tagpu Pemavajra wrote Infinite Aeons?

kris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 919
Re: Tagpu Pemavajra
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2015, 08:17:59 PM »
Thank you for sharing such important information, about where the lineage of Dorje Shugden comes from. I have been doing Dorje Shugden practice for quite awhile now, but this the first time I learn about the source of our lineage... wow.. it is still difficult to believe that the prayer is composed by Dorje Shugden himself in Gaden...

vajratruth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Re: Tagpu Pemavajra
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2016, 04:09:58 PM »
Vajratruth,

Adding to the confusion of yourself and others, in the Enlightened Lamas Series section, Admin has a short biography on Dagpo Kelsang Khedrub where they use a picture of his disciple Dagpo Jampel Lhundrub. They also say that Dagpo Kelsang Khedrub is the author of Infinite Aeons (which is correct as I've sited).

Have you been able to locate any of the sources you've read saying Tagpu Pemavajra wrote Infinite Aeons?

Dear Chokyi Dorje,

My apologies for this very late reply.

After some more research I still cannot say for sure but I must say that the sources you pointed me to are quite authoritative. And I thank you for that.

Best regards,
VT

SabS

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 471
Re: Tagpu Pemavajra
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2016, 09:49:39 AM »
Thank you Vajratruth for writing this article of how the whole practise of Dorje Shugden came directly from his precious incarnate, Duldzin Drakpa Gyaltsen. The 4th Tagpu Pemavajra astral travelled to Tushita to request and received this complete practise on the behest of H.H. Pabongka Rinpoche. How fortunate we are to receive this practise from our Gurus as it carries the tremendous blessings of Duldzin Drakpa Gyaltsen, the same mind stream as Lord Dorje Shugden.

Also from the 4th Tagpu Pemavajra came the Vajrayogini Tantra and Cittamani Tara (one of highest form of Tantric practise) which the Dalai Lama frequently gives teachings and initiations on. Why would the Dalai Lama have faith in this lineage Guru on Cittamani Tara practise and yet create doubt of his authenticity on Dorje Shugden practise? In placing a ban on Dorje Shugden practise and proclaiming him as a "Spirit", the Dalai Lama had effectively state that the 4th Tagpu Pemavajra is wrong, which would mean the Cittamani Tara practise he passed on is worng too. As the Dalai Lama still believes in the Cittamani Tara practise and that the blessings of lineage masters are still intact then he must believe that Dorje Shugden is an enlightened Protector. So what is his real reason for creating so much schism, segregation, sectarianism, persecution and sufferings by placing a ban on Dorje Shugden? So far all his reasons had been proven unreliable and wrong.

May the Dalai Lama swiftly manifest his true nature and wisdom to restore the practise of Dorje Shugden and stop the vilification of lineage Masters to prevent pure lineages from disappearing. What a scary thought to not have the pure lineage Masters teachings in the future!

Celia

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
Re: Tagpu Pemavajra
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2016, 03:58:04 PM »
It is quite unfortunate that the the credibility of the Tagpu Pemavajra is being questioned because of the illogical Dorje Shugden ban.  Doubts and aspersions are being cast on the vast wisdom and contributions of the Tagpu Pemavajra which actually is way beyond just in connection with Dorje Shugden. However, efforts to downplay and even discredit Tagpu Pemavajra has led to a sticky situation where it brings to question the integrity of Tibetan Buddhism and even credibility of the Dalai Lama. 

To illustrate, both Cittamani Tara and Dorje Shugden practice came through Tagpu Pemavajra. How is it logical to dismiss one practice (Dorje Shugden) as demon worship but still proliferate another practice (Cittamani Tara) which came from the same Tagpu Pemavajra? Especially when such claim of demon worship by Tagpu Pemavajra (through his propitiation of Dorje Shugden) would invalidate any teachings from Tagpu Pemavajra.
So, by saying that Dorje Shugden is a demon and those who propitiate Him would have broken their refuge (and therefore invalidated all their practices), then by the same logic, Tagpu Pemavajra would have also broke his refuge. And on that basis, it follows that the practice of Cittamani Tara transmitted by Tagpu Pemavajra and is practiced to date, would be an invalid practice that does not carry the blessings of Tara at all. Thus, one can’t achieve enlightenment with that practice as the lineage itself was broken when Takpu Pemavajra started practicing Dorje Shugden.

To take things further, if the Cittamani Tara lineage passed by Tagpu Pemavajra to Pabongka Rinpoche is invalid, then all the lineage practices passed by Pabongka Rinpoche to Trijang Rinpoche and from Trijang Rinpoche to all his students including the Dalai Lama are similarly invalid.

Ringo Starr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 340
    • Email
Re: Tagpu Pemavajra
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2016, 05:00:54 PM »
The authoritative Tibetan Buddhist Resource Center has got texts to further add credibility to what is said in this thread.

https://www.tbrc.org/#library_BannerSearchResults-"tagphu"