Youtube on Serkong Tritul Rinpoche of Kadhampa Sect.

[lightning]

The woman that say Tritul Rinpoche rape her, already die due to cancer, although she ask Tritul Rinpoche for Apologize, Tritul Rinpoche was forgive her...

But finally, karma.........

The woman is ask to harm Tritul Rinpoche by a lama who against practising of Shugden, if it is not mistake....

as extracted from guestbook:

(2540) Wei Da
28 October 2010 18:19:26
         
It is so dangerous to accuse lamas especially if we can't check, like the forum post on Serkong Tritul Rinpoche the lady who accused him of rape. if the accusations are not true only negative karma awaits that person.

Better to give the benefit of the doubt. To be safe rather than sorry. I chose to view His Holiness to have his reasons to create the ban for Dorje Shugden.

[DSFriend]

Gaden Jangtse Monastery had no doubts about Serkong Tritul Rinpoche's authenticity. Even the representatives of the Dalai Lama attended his enthronement ceremony in Gaden Jangtse which means he had approval of the Dalai Lama at the time of his enthronement.

I haven't posted on this thread with the intention of denigrating Serkong Tritul or anyone else but when someone uploads a video to Youtube and says the lamas shown are the tulkus of two of the most important teachers in the history of Tibetan buddhism it seems reasonable to investigate such claims quite carefully. I did that via Google and discovered doubts and controversy concening both and unfortunately no one here has so far been able to provide any credible evidence that they really are reincarnations of Atisha and Dromtonpa.

Lone Hermit,

Please visit the Forum house rules if you haven't and abide by it.

If you are so concerned to find out if these lamas are incarnations of Atisha and Dromtonpa then please continue to research to find proofs (as you are doing already) somewhere else which will clear your doubts. 

Many forum members have answered your question via inferential logic and have respectfully asked you to not judge other lamas due to the karmic consequences.

thank you

[Helena]

Hi, sorry for the lack of posts lately. I have been really snowed under with a lot of work.

Upon returning to the Forum, I got very confused when reading this thread. But after I did my own further reading on this topic, I finally understood what Lightning meant with the words, "...another Wang appeared, don't hide anymore."

This very same topic raised by Lone Hermit really sounds so similar to a past discussion raised by forum member named Wang back in April 2009.

Even then, the answers were already clearly given by other forum members - but still, Wang was not satisfied and may be just did not want to accept. History repeats itself.

I really liked what Mountains and TK replied to Wang's insistence on asking the same rather irrelevant questions. I used the word, 'irrelevant' here because out of everything that Serkong Tritul Rinpoche has achieved - i.e.

1) Being recognised in Gaden Jangtze Monastery before being expelled because Rinpoche refused to give up his Dorje Shugden practice
2) Building a huge monastery with Dorje Shugden that can house 1000 monks or more in Kathmandu, Nepal
3) Sponsoring monks in Shar Gaden

and the list goes on -

Out of everything this Rinpoche has done, Wang can only choose to speculate on the subject matter of a scandal. This really puzzles me, because I do ask myself - how does this really help any of us here and educate us further?

Most of all, how does this contribute to this website or Forum?

I shall post the replies made by others in April 2009 because their words resonate with my thoughts. I think enough has been said and written. And it is clear when some people are just not interested in real education, information but are more focussed on 'speculating rumours and gossips'.

This was posted by someone named Mountains -

Reply #2 on: April 21, 2009, 06:04:01 AM »


Dear Dharmapal,


Over ten years back, Serkong Tritul Rinpoche took his disciple Jamsing Rinpoche to Gaden Jangtze Monastery to be enthroned. So they were both Tulkus (Rinpoches) of Gaden Jangtze Monastery. Because of the Dorje Shugden ban, Tritul and Jamsing refuse to give up the practice making them the 'enemy' and target of the Tibetan exile govt. Especially more so, because Tritul's organization have very powerful and wealthy financial patrons allowing them to engage in tremendous building projects attracting the jealousy of the Tibetan Govt in exile branding them as traitors by accusing them of taking money from the Chinese Govt. Well they are not the only very wealthy Tibetan Buddhist Organization in the world. And just because you have good patrons, doesn't mean you take money from the Chinese Govt. Hence the Tibetan Govt in exile tries to blacklist them by accusing them of money from China. They want the Tibetan people against them by branding them as traitors.

Recently around 3 weeks ago, Jamsing Rinpoche (sanctioned by Serkong Tritul Rinpoche) went to Shar Gaden Monastery in South India to do the enthronement ceremony with much offerings. Jamsing Rinpoche also offered enough money for breakfast, lunch and dinner for all the Shar Gaden Monks for the next ten years.

If their organization has 'pulled' out from the Gelug lineage and stopped their Dorje Shugden practices, they would never 'patronize' Shar Gaden Monastery. Or even have a enthronement ceremony done there.

So perhaps Serkong Tritul Rinpoche said he stopped practicing to throw people off track so when he establishes centres, temples, get licenses, permits, etc, he would have 'less' obstacles.

Many Gelug Lamas claim they have stopped the practices, but in actuality they have not and are doing in secrecy. Even their close students do not know.

Another small point is that if you look at the painting on the wall of Serkong Tritul's monastery in Nepal, on this thread, he is having the 5 visions of Lama Tsongkapa painted. If he had given up on Gelug, he would not have Tsongkapa painted and so prominently.

His centre in New Zealand (home page of this site), the central image/statue is lama Tsongkapa also. Not Atisha. Not that there is anything wrong with having Atisha as their central image as Tsongkapa is an incarnation of Atisha with the same mindstream. But the 'signs' of them not being Gelugpa anymore are not strongly there.


These are my thoughts, and what I have heard from very reliable sources. Thank you very much.



This is a well written reply posted by TK on the same thread in 2009.

« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2009, 04:48:06 AM »
Dear Wang,

I hope you have joined this wonderful forum for a good motivation.

We are here to learn more, not to create more schisms. I am not against the Dalai lama. I am not against China. I am not into Gelug or other sect's politics. I wish to have a support platform for the practice of HOLY DORJE SHUGDEN. This is why we are here.

I wish to express my voice that all religious practice should have no repression including Dorje Shugden's.



1. Your link doesnt help. I am not Serkong Tritul's student.

2. Serkong Tritul may or may not have cohabitated with a woman. But it does not faze me even if he did.

3. He is still doing great works, doing great building works and sponsoring the Dorje Shugden movement tremendously.  He is a great force in the Buddhist world and has many sponsors that support his work. The sponsors/patrons have examined him and greatly believe in him. His work is growing faster and bigger. No one can bring him down now although many have tried.

4. He does 100 great works and maybe 1 or 2 are not permissable in our subjective eyes, but we should focus on the other works. Why always focus on the negative which is samsara's nature.

5. Which of us has not sinned. Serkong Tritul has done more for the growth of Dorje Shugden's lineage more than me and you. So we should rejoice or at least just pray. We can never do as much as he does. So instead of putting energy into bad-mouthing him, we should put more energy into practice and bringing dharma to others.

6. I don't enjoy these types of posts. It explains nothing and it just throws sex in for controversy and attention. I do not appreciate it at all. I do not mean offense to you, but please think.

7. If you are involved in the other forums, I would advise you not to slander Serkong Tritul there also. It is bad karma. You achieve nothing. You get nowhere and you also bring new comers’ faith down. Why destroy other ppl's faith.

8. I heard that many of the Administrators of the gelu.org/bbs are students of Kejok Rinpoche. Rinpoche resides primarily in Australia.  Kejok Rinpoche practises Dorje Shugden up till this very day.

Even his students not close to him will not know. His residence in Australia has his private chambers/bedroom that no one is allowed in except Rinpoche himself. That room contains Dorje Shugden image that is worshipped by Kejok Rinpoche. Kejok Rinpoche keeps in contact with other high rinpoches who practise Dorje Shugden till today but very discreetly. Kejok Rinpoche’s household (labrang) and Gangchen Rinpoche’s labrang are very close, friendly, and on excellent terms. And they call each other to do Dorje Shugden pujas from time to time in Nepal.

Kejok Rinpoche also has a house in Nepal near the Sanku pilgrimage site of Vajra Yogini deity in kathmandu and there is a geshe student staying there. That geshe student is very open to saying yes, kejok Rinpoche and their close members HAVE NOT GIVEN UP DORJE SHUGDEN AND CONTINUE THE PRACTICE. This geshe affirms the holy image of Dorje Shugden in Kejok Rinpoche's private residence in Australia.

But to the outside world, the non-inner circle students of Kejok Rinpoche fiercely say, Kejok Rinpoche has given up and does not practice. And they even criticize other Rinpoches/Geshes who practice and point fingers. I guess pointing fingers is a way of self protection.

The Tibetan Govt in exile has created this type of schism. So if you want to make an issue or something scandalous, then KEJOK RINPOCHE IS STILL PRACTICING DORJE SHUGDEN IN SECRET. That would be a bigger scandal in today's Tibetan Buddhist World than Serkong Tritul sleeping with a woman.

9. So I think Serkong Tritul knows what he is doing. I think we should leave him alone. I think we should just talk about dharma and practice in this website and the website you have posted in Chinese. Wouldn't you like to be a real dharma student promoting dharma instead of negative talk? I would.

10. The Tibetan Govt is very short sighted. Instead of ostracizing their own powerful lamas that can help the tibetan cause, they should rope them in and make friends..


Just think, the Tibetan govt in exile should become friends and rope in for their cause the below just to name a few:

Serkong Tritul Rinpoche
Geshe Kelsang Gyatso
Yongyal Rinpoche
Gonsar Rinpoche
Pabongka Rinpoche
Dagom Ladrang
Gangchen Tulku Rinpoche
Denma Gonsa Ladrang
Jamsing Ladrang
Kundeling Rinpoche
Rabten Rinpoche
Tsawa Rinpoche
Zasep Rinpoche
Zimey Ladrang
Shar Gaden
Serpom Monastery
Jampa Ling Monastery
Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche
Zong Rinpoche
Domo Geshe Rinpoche
kejok Rinpoche
Geshe Tsultrim of Jangtze Monastery
Tashi Lunpo in Tibet
Gaden Dorje Shugden Oracle in USA
Sera Mey Dorje Shugden Oracle in Taiwan
HH Panchen Rinpoche
Sogpu Guru Deva Ladrang
Geshe Konchok
etc etc etc

It would be better to rope in the above ppl to spread dharma, talk about tibetan cultural identity in order to preserve it, create learning centers, art, temples, sponsor the tibetan cause even to help the tibetan govt make better connections with the Chinese govt.

FOR EXAMPLE: The tibetan govt in exile always accuse Gangchen Rinpoche of collaborating with the Chinese Govt against Tibetans. Untrue but that is what they say. They have many hate campaigns specifically against this great lama. You can see on their official websites.

They say Gangchen Rinpoche has very close ties with the Chinese Govt. Well that SHOULD BE THERE CUE TO MAKE FRIENDS WITH GANGCHEN RINPOCHE AND THRU GANGCHEN RINPOCHE MAKE BETTER RELATIONS WITH THE CHINESE GOVT FOR THE SAKE OF THE SIX MILLION REMAINING TIBETANS IN TIBET. Wouldn't that make more sense???

Gangchen Rinpoche should be made into the Tibetan Govt in exile's AMBASSADOR TO CHINA. When the Tibetans have so little ppl as it is and so little qualified ppl as it is, they should rope in these qualified persons. Why does dorje shugen's practice have to be paid by Chinese govt to practice? This practice was going on for 350 years before 1959.

I myself practice Dorje Shugden and he is my only protector and the foundation of my faith. But the Chinese govt doesn't pay me any money to practice.



I wish you the best Wang.

Tk


Personally, I enjoy reading posts which promote better understanding, that helps us by giving us educated information and that enriches our personal practice.

I am seriously not interested in gossips and speculating rumours which may or may not be true. Because it adds no value to this sacred space or any space for that matter.

All in all, I prefer to rejoice in the fact that Serkong Rinpoche has done a lot of good and just the sponsoring of Shar Gaden monastery alone is something wonderful for me. I am sure it had not been easy at all for Serkong Rinpoche to stand firm with his Dorje Shugden practice and suffer the fate of being expelled from Gaden Jangtze because of it.

Some people have really taken the time, effort and even used their own resources to create this sacred space for all of us to enjoy, be educated and learn - from the creators to the owners to the site, to the members of this forum who have repeatedly posted very useful and valuable information. Various people have all taken the time and trouble to answer plenty. And I sincerely do appreciate that.

This is a sacred space for real learning and understanding.

Like what TK wrote above - what is one's motivation when he or she joins this site? Well, to me, it is quite clear sometimes with how and what they write or post.

Thank you for those who have really taken the time to educate us and contribute to this space. Thank you for enriching our understanding and appreciation of our tradition and above all, our Protector Dorje Shugden.

Have a great weekend, everyone.

[lightning]

Gaden Jangtse Monastery had no doubts about Serkong Tritul Rinpoche's authenticity. Even the representatives of the Dalai Lama attended his enthronement ceremony in Gaden Jangtse which means he had approval of the Dalai Lama at the time of his enthronement.

So there must be a letter signed by Gaden Tri Rinpoche and all the Abbots of Gaden Jangste establishing him as the reincarnation of Atisha. This would also include the seal of the Dalai Lamas Private Office. Any chance of posting a copy online?

I agree it is possible Serkong Tritul is a great tulku and it is also possible he is an emanation of  Atisha. I hope he is. There is nothing this world needs more than authentic dharma teachers and I will definitely seek him out and offer prostrations and white silk scarf if that turns out to be true. Unfortunately I've been around the dharma long enough to know that there are many fake tulkus and many self appointed "high lamas". After all it's just a name and who can really prove it one way or the other. It's why all of the Tibetan schools have a specific process established to verify the authenticity of so called reincarnate lamas. When it's done properly in accordance with the tradition it gives a degree of certainty to such claims.

Here we are not talking about some low ranking lama from a monastery in a village ouside Lhasa. This is someone who is supposedly the reincarnation of [probably] the second most important figure in the historical transmission of Buddhism from India to Tibet without whom there would never have been Kadampa buddhism or the Gelugpa tradition. Yet there is not one Lama with the required authority who has recognized Serkong Trituls claims, or if there is for some strange reason no one is able to tell me his name. Why not?

I haven't posted on this thread with the intention of denigrating Serkong Tritul or anyone else but when someone uploads a video to Youtube and says the lamas shown are the tulkus of two of the most important teachers in the history of Tibetan buddhism it seems reasonable to investigate such claims quite carefully. I did that via Google and discovered doubts and controversy concening both and unfortunately no one here has so far been able to provide any credible evidence that they really are reincarnations of Atisha and Dromtonpa.

Dear Lone Hermit,

I hope that you would keep you words as to offer white scarfs to HH Dharmaraja Serkong Tritul Rinpoche, if you find out the truth. If you have been around long enough to understand that there is a strict protocol is being observed for High ranking Rinpoches to whom them would like to offer the scarfs to. If the Lama is not of a higher ranking or having better qualities, they would not anyhow offer the scarfs without knowing the background of the receiver? Pictures speaks a thousand words and shown that Lamas with extraordinary status came to congratulate Serkong Tritul Rinpoche's enthronment. Tritul is a tittle given to a reincarnated Garden Tripa Throne Holder and SerKong Rinpoche had been four times throne holder in His previous lifetimes. From the youtube pictures, every one here expect you unanimously agreed and recognized His certification for enthronement.

After seeing the youtube pictures to ask for Serkong Tritul Rinpoche's certificate to show online is as alike asking a lady to strip stark naked in front of you to prove that she is a real woman, which is quite uncouth behaviour. Besides you are asking a High ranking tulku not in a very appropriate manner. I cannot imagine anyone would have ask for HHDL for his certificate either to prove Himself. Whether HH Serkong Tritul Rinpoche is going provide his certificate is up to his discretion and not for you to demand. I mean that who are you to poise this kind of request?

In the past, Potowa was not certified either but everyone recongised Him as a Geshe. Song Rinpoche also did not have money to enthrone, but He was recongised as a High Ranking Living Buddha and had top His examinations and debates. I understand that certificate is a form assurance, but the complete mastery of Dharma cannot be measure by certificate giving alone and a person with such mastery is able provide flawless explanations on any given Dharma topics. Today I am grateful to have the lifetime opportunity to hear wonderful lessons on Bodicitta and seeing emptiness wisdom from both HH Serkong Tritul Rinpoche and HH Dromtug Rinpoche, which up till today to me, I find without peers. I want you to find any persons including Geshes that you know of and provide answers to compare between both answers, but it seems that you are not willing to do so.

In the past, Je Tsong Kha Pa had subdued Khedrup Je via teachings. Khedrup Je did not held any regards to Je Tong Kha Pa and sat beside Him as offered on the same level. Upon Je Tsong Kha Pa flawless explanation of teachings on Bodhicitta compared to what Khedrup Je had learnt. Khedrup Je had no choice and was very ashamed but to prostrate at the feet of Je Tsong Kha Pa.

Today there are a lot of information from internet may NOT be of reliable sources. Besides the sources you provided are mostly from people who go against Dorje Shugden and had many unfounded accusations. Do you know that the writer from the CAS did not know that on his same side, there are people from Maitreya Projects from HHDL's organizations are displaying the same Buddha Relics as the Buddha Relics Exhibition held by Kadhampa Association. The writer "happily" accused Dromtug Rinpoche for having so many fake, coloured balls relics which Maitreya Project are displaying are actually of same source. The Buddha relics have the ability to reproduce itself and had been replicating itself over 2500 years.  Do you know what kind of karma will befall for accusing so many relics left by the Buddha Himself? Even one piece would be very severe enough to befall into hell fire?

Wang had been so light on ears to take side with the CAS articles, but upon showing the evidence to him, He shy away from this topic. Same thing, he even boldly pasted the link of scandal of the rape case in effort to further smear HH Serkong Rinpoche's reputation. I had adviced Wang to checked out from both parties and the actual background before coming to conclusion, but later it is found out that Rinpoche was released without charge very soon as the girl confessed that Rinpoche was innocent.

I felt both hair stand and heart ache upon terrible karma befalls on the people involved in the accusation. The writer of CAS has written his articles and boldly spread across the internet and many people follow suits, unknowingly he had dragged a lot of people to the doors of hell for upholding his own justice. The Lama is jealous of HH Serkong Tritul Rinpoche and plotted against him and suffered tragic outcome of his own karma in lightning speed. Seriously, I do not know what kind of karma will await for Wang, the CAS writer and the other people who denigrating High ranking Lamas.

Lone Hermit, I hope that you did not had the intention of denigrating Serkong Tritul Rinpoche. If yes, I advise you to take up Yamantaka empowerment which has the ability to cleanse the five heinous sins most effectively and do self initiation and other form of confessions everyday.

Thinking back again, If you desire, I may be able to arrange an interview a meeting between you and Dromtug Rinpoche to prove you, if He drops by your country. As Dromtug Rinpoche flies around the world to spread Dharma.

To clear the misunderstanding, HH Dharmaraja Serkong Tritul Rinpoche had decided to answer in a form Chinese article, but due to time taken and my disability to translate to English properly. I hope that the English articles will be out soon. Please kindly the below link with you are able to read Chinese and do not miss the interesting articles:

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=100214993376918&id=164038393608279

[lightning]

I have been busy but I didn't know the forum has been quite bustling with activity. This thread caught my eye and I briefly read through the entries and I must say it has always boiled down to us questioning the recognition of High Lamas. Serkong Tritul Rinpoche was recognised by Gaden Monastery and I am sure that means a High Lama or elder Lama has approved of this incarnation so there is not need to doubt. Well, that is my opinion and I really like what Thaimonk said,

You can give DEFINITIVE proof he is not who he is.

The debate never ends.

If Gaden had recognized him as tulku. Then he is. The end.

But anyway, so how would you answer the 3 questions, lightning? I think I wouldn't take refuge in worms and sariras or relics but I will hold sariras sacred because only a highly attained master can leave such traces after their passing. The relics allows us to tap into his blessing so we open our own karmic dispositions for Dharma.

Please kindly looked into the PM by me

[thaimonk]

Tritul Rinpoche is still quietly supporting Shar Gaden Monastery is the latest scoop. He might have 'given up' Dorje Shugden publicly but privately he supports Shar Gaden.

He has also sent over 100 young monks that are from his monastery in Nepal to be educated in Shar Gaden just 3 months back.

[Vajraprotector]

Sad that even lamas with great institution and financial support also has to seemingly 'back off' and 'follow the rules' 

Perhaps Tritul Rinpoche does have great respect for His Holiness and doesn't wish to make His Holiness and the government look bad. When will the good day come for Dorje Shugden to be in the open again. It's a long wait...

[thaimonk]

I am a HUGE fan of this website. Some of the views on it does not match with mine. But so what? Where else better than here is there to go to? Why find differences in a few issues, why not find commonality with the huge similarities.

Anyway if I don't like it, I DON'T HAVE TO COME HERE, but where can I go? I am addicted to this site.

I sure can't set up something like this with the time, energy, money, knowledge, research, thousands of hours necessary.

So I am here to stay and my respect for this site grows all the time.

Mehtra
San Diego

(source: post from guestbook)