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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: beggar on November 05, 2010, 09:20:24 AM
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Recently, I have been thinking about the importance of having confidence and faith in Dharma practice. I have met many people who say, "I cannot be a good practitioner," or "I can't be as good as you" or "I don't know very much" and somehow, allow themselves to stay there. There is a sense of false modesty but actually just reflects a big lack of confidence, or even laziness.
Sometimes, yes, it can be daunting when we think of the long, big road ahead of us that we need to trek to reach enlightenment. It seems so far away! It seems like there is a lot we need to overcome, a lot of hurdles, and sometimes we get scared.
Then, I came across an interesting teaching recently that said (and this is very common sense, very clear), that if we keep saying we cannot do it, we don't know how, we don't want to do it etc then we are just opening the karmic imprints for us to NOT do it; we allow all those negative karmas that keep us away from dharma to open and literally stop us from practicing. So eventually, yes, we literally cannot do it, won't know how to do it and will NOT DO IT.
The opposite must therefore be true. We must have the determination and some faith to say, "I will do it", "I can do it". This opens the positive karmic imprints from whatever positive virtue we have done before, TO CONTINUE DOING IT AGAIN now.
The question perhaps, then, is not whether we have faith in ourselves to practice, but whether we really WANT TO PRACTICE?
Is it really a lack of faith? Or just pure laziness and attachment?
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THE faith we should cutivate, THE faith that is the root of the spiritual path is to see one's Spiritual Guide as a Buddha.
A fact to reflect on:
How could we start developing Buddhahood if we cannot even see it in other beings?
This and seeing all beings as our mothers are the two most difficult topics of the lamrim.
So as to help us get there, the lamrim lists three types of faith, or three stages in the development of our faith in Buddhahood. This gives us hope and a step by step guide to cultivate faith.
In the first stage, we recognize the qualities of our Spiritual Guide, and the qualities of the Dharma that is being taught and we develop ADMIRATION. This is the most common faith, on its basis we put Buddhas on altars, make prayers, give offerings etc... But, sometimes, we put the Buddhas on the altar and see them as an inaccessible ideal, an the altar becomes like a barrier. Just like one would recognize the qualities of Mother Thereza and say "oh, she is wonderful, but I could never do that.."
There is a quote from Henri Ford that goes like this:
"Weither you say I CAN or I CAN'T, either way you are right"
The second stage is that on the basis of admiration, we develop a YEARNING for cultivating the qualities of the Spiritual Guide and the qualities of the Dharma that is being taught - in ourselves. This faith is also sometimes called wishing faith.
The faith one has at the third stage is called CLEANSING faith, or also believing faith. That faith is what holds one not to fall when things get shaky. With this faith, one sees his Spiritual Guide as a Buddha and does not give in perception of faults or doubts. That faith is the root of the path.
This is also the faith we need to cultivate when dealing with the controversy of Dorje Shugden for example.
Controversy, perception of faults, wrong (and un-met) expectations are tests to faith.
To have faith in one's Spiritual Guide is to have faith in one's self.
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Then, I came across an interesting teaching recently that said (and this is very common sense, very clear), that if we keep saying we cannot do it, we don't know how, we don't want to do it etc then we are just opening the karmic imprints for us to NOT do it; we allow all those negative karmas that keep us away from dharma to open and literally stop us from practicing. So eventually, yes, we literally cannot do it, won't know how to do it and will NOT DO IT.
The opposite must therefore be true. We must have the determination and some faith to say, "I will do it", "I can do it". This opens the positive karmic imprints from whatever positive virtue we have done before, TO CONTINUE DOING IT AGAIN now.
The question perhaps, then, is not whether we have faith in ourselves to practice, but whether we really WANT TO PRACTICE?
Is it really a lack of faith? Or just pure laziness and attachment?
Our Spiritual Guides show us that we can practice, they teach us how to practice, they show it though their own examples, they are examples of devotion, effort, perseverance and consistance.
I think a lack of faith is a poor excuse, we can work our way to faith, "admiration" - "wish and action" - and "genuine faith".
I think the reason we do not practice is laziness and attachment, not lack of faith. We let our bad habits be in the way, we give in to them and make them stronger instead of our faith.
I think that for some of us the question is
"do we want to admit and nurture faith?"
(because with faith, we lose our only poor excuse)
or do we prefer to nurture our attachments?
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I think that for some of us the question is
"do we want to admit and nurture faith?"
(because with faith, we lose our only poor excuse)
or do we prefer to nurture our attachments?
Very interesting question. Much easier to say than do.
I say this not with a self-defeating negative thought or feelings, but with the personal experience of my own journey.
It is so simple and logical. Like what Beggar wrote, '"very common sense, very clear" and yet why is it so hard to do?
Do we prefer to nurture our attachments or our faith? Very profound question.
The spiritual path is very dynamic and interesting - as it mirrors the maze within our minds.
Sometimes our personal Ego can fool us and disguise itself as many different virtues. And we think we are nurturing the faith, but we are not. Upon closer or deeper inspection, we find that we are actually nurturing our Ego.
The various layers we need to uncover and discover about ourselves is staggering and scary.
It does not get any easier when we go deeper, but the joy and benefit lie in knowing that we are going into the heart of the enemy. We are closer to destroying the enemy within.
Sometimes I do not think it is a matter of can or cannot. I believe we all can because Buddha and all other Enlightened Beings are proofs that it can be done. It has been done.
Beyond can or cannot, want to or do not want to - I believe, it must be done.
There is simply no other way out of this samsaric cycle.
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Sometimes our personal Ego can fool us and disguise itself as many different virtues. And we think we are nurturing the faith, but we are not. Upon closer or deeper inspection, we find that we are actually nurturing our Ego.
The various layers we need to uncover and discover about ourselves is staggering and scary.
It does not get any easier when we go deeper, but the joy and benefit lie in knowing that we are going into the heart of the enemy. We are closer to destroying the enemy within.
Dear Helena,
I really like what you wrote.
Our deluded mindset is where we start from on our journey out of delusion.
Sounds anchronic? No it is not if one has faith.
Faith is like the light of enlightenment in a deluded mind.
Sometimes this light fades out and our delusions and attachments catch up, sometimes this light gets brighter and we are not fooled as easily. And this light needs nurturing at all times.
As long as wisdom as not settled in, I guess the best thing we can do with our powerful delusions and atachments is to use them as a platform to engage in enwisening actions.
We use delusions against themselves. Just as the lotus grows from the mud.
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I couldn't agree with you more Helena and Hope Rainbow. It is from our deluded mindset that we need to start our journey out of delusion.
In The Four Noble Truths by Geshe Tashi Tsering, it is explained that when we create an action of body/speech/mind, the conscious or subconscious volition that causes that action also creates a potential (imprint) that is deposited in the mental continuum, the stream of consciousness (our mind). When the appropriate conditions arise, this potential becomes manifest as a positive or negative result.
So when someone says "I cannot be a good practitioner," or "I can't be as good as you" then he/she continues to reinforce his/her tendency to fall back on such responses. This creates the causes for them to remain in samsara and further away from liberation/ Buddhahood. Why?
The truth of the origin of suffering consists of the relationship between ignorance, afflictive emotions, and karmic actions. Ignorance leads to afflictive emotions, which in turn cause karmic action to take place.
Whether it is due to lack of faith, or laziness that this person uses this tagline as an excuse, these are results of the
root delusion - ignorance, just different manifestation. Hence, the person who is already deluded, continues to reinforce negative habituations, and the vicious cycle called samsaric rebirth continues.
So how do we undo this process? In "Four Hundred Stanzas", Aryadeva makes the point that we must deal with the coarsest levels first, dealing consciously and determinedly with the negative habit that most plagues us. The more subtle afflictions will come to light only after we have begun to subdue the grosser ones. In that way, both the origin of afflictive emotions and the origin of karmic actions can be abandoned.
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So when someone says "I cannot be a good practitioner," or "I can't be as good as you" then he/she continues to reinforce his/her tendency to fall back on such responses.
'Wether you say "I CAN" or "I CAN'T", either way you are right'
no, no this is not from a high lama, this a quote by... Henry Ford
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Hi friends,
Saw this on a Singapore forum re Buddhism that reminded me of this thread, thought I share it here:
Are you teachings perverted dharma :
Both the Nirvana and Pitaka Sutra state that "Faith without wisdom leads one to become more ignorant and wisdom without faith leads one to a perverted view.
"If we rely on faith only and do not cultivate understanding and wisdom we will be unable to comprehend the Triple Gem and the methods that we are learning. In that case, the real benefits of the Dharma would be beyond us. For those who practise in this manner, in their minds, they believe Buddhism is no different to the worship of ghosts or Gods. It is just an ignorant faith-superstition. This kind of attitude is in fact very commonly found in the circles of Chinese Buddhists nowadays.
It is more dangerous for one to have wisdom without faith. The Nagarjuna Bodhisattva said that, "If we try to attain ‘emptiness’ without the foundation of faith and precepts, such a concept of ‘emptiness’ will be a perverted one." This perverted view of ‘emptiness’ rejects the Truth of the Law of Cause and Effect. Such a mistake is made due to self-approbation and the lack of pure faith in the merits of the Triple Gem. The foolishness of superstition is less than the foolishness of perverted views. Perverted view may lead one to Hell. Thus, it can be seen that faith and wisdom must be practised together, neither should be neglected.
From: Open letter Shamar (Rinpoche?) and Kelsang Gyatsho ex Geshe , http://sgforums.com/forums/2205/topics/299301
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I think we are discussing 'faith in our Dharma practice' and not 'faith' per se.
We should have great confidence and faith in our Dharma practice for the following reasons:
1)we are being guided along this path of practice by our Spiritual Guide, who has shown us by his fine example, how steadfastness and determination to benefit mother sentient beings as well as Guru Devotion have led him to success and realizations;
2)although the Path of practice may be long and daunting and fraught with obstacles, Holy Beings have tread the Path and attained Enlightenment;
3)we have to begin walking the Path of Practice with faith and determination NOW as we have been endowed with the eighteen opportune conditions and more in this precious human life of ours.
4)our inherent Buddha nature is in us – we have only to work our way towards it by removing the layers and layers of neurosis and ego-centricism.
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I think we are discussing 'faith in our Dharma practice' and not 'faith' per se.
We should have great confidence and faith in our Dharma practice for the following reasons:
1)we are being guided along this path of practice by our Spiritual Guide, who has shown us by his fine example, how steadfastness and determination to benefit mother sentient beings as well as Guru Devotion have led him to success and realizations;
2)although the Path of practice may be long and daunting and fraught with obstacles, Holy Beings have tread the Path and attained Enlightenment;
3)we have to begin walking the Path of Practice with faith and determination NOW as we have been endowed with the eighteen opportune conditions and more in this precious human life of ours.
4)our inherent Buddha nature is in us – we have only to work our way towards it by removing the layers and layers of neurosis and ego-centricism.
With these gems available, our lack of faith shows lack of contemplation, an upside down pot?
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With these gems available, our lack of faith shows lack of contemplation, an upside down pot?
Hehehe... Yes, I think the up-side down pot is appropriate!
Faith is a factor that plays in our motivation to be in Dharma, for: without faith in Dharma why are we in Dharma?
Without faith, our mind is closed tight to Dharma.
Without faith, our contemplation applies on the worldly reasons we have to be in Dharma, not on Dharma.
Without faith in Dharma, how can we have faith in our Spiritual Guide?
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Faith is a factor that plays in our motivation to be in Dharma, for: without faith in Dharma why are we in Dharma?
Without faith, our mind is closed tight to Dharma.
Without faith, our contemplation applies on the worldly reasons we have to be in Dharma, not on Dharma.
Without faith in Dharma, how can we have faith in our Spiritual Guide?
I agree with HR that we start out with some kind of faith first most of the time but like what VP says from her findings... Faith without wisdom leads one to become more ignorant and wisdom without faith leads one to a perverted view.
The perverted views to me could mean our cover ups or excuses to not commit due to our laziness and attachments which wanting to remain in the self-cherishing comfort zone. We give many reasons why we cannot commit and play mind games with ourselves by focusing on our shortcomings. It is not so much that we do not have faith in ourselves practising, it is more likely we do not want to because we do not even want to try. Isn't it better for us to at try and fail then to never try at all?
I have a friend that does the "I cannot" "I am new and fresh" reasons all the time. But if it was something that would make them look good in the eyes of others, their effort has no limits, No matter what they will find a way to succeed. Hence this is pure selectiveness which I take to mean the perverted view?
On the other hand if we have all the Dharma knowledge but do not apply them and put it in to practice, it also shows we do not have real faith but just superficial. Question is can this superficial faith be turned in to real faith?
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I think the only way we can see if our fatih is stable is for it to be put under constant testing from all sides. I guess thats what I like about the Vajrayana path which attracted me. The role of the "Guru" or the "Spiritual Guide", their purpose is to do just that.
Each test comes a realisation to change that something which needs changing, and then through change, faith develops, becomes stronger, more concrete.
It can be cultivated, with the help of a skilful guide, who knows us soo well and how far we can be pushed, so we don't run from our practice or give up.
If left to our own devices I am sure we would just say "too hard", "i don't know about that" or just plain, "NO".
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In my opinion, when it comes to faith in the Dharma. It is best to practice with your best effort. It is only when we practice the dharma that we will see significant results and perhaps the results will bring us faith. Saying 'I can' or 'I can't', to me, is just a way the ego plays with us. I know some people who say 'they can' and they can and i know people who say 'they can't' and they can and vice versa. Given an example, I know people who told me they could never be vegetarians, but today, they are. I have also heard people saying that its a piece of cake to be vegetarians and they couldn't do it. But personally, i prefer the 'I can' positive approach. Having all stated, i still believe actions create results, not so much words.
Coming back to having faith in the dharma. The very good judge of your efforts in your practice and the growth of your faith, would be the people around you seeing value of the dharma in you and following your footsteps to happiness. Only the people in your life will notice the transformation the dharma has brought you. Essentially, we practice the dharma for others anyways. I look at dharma as a way to improve oneself to assist others in improving as well.
I am very sorry if I do not make any sense. I coughed all this up myself trying be as logical as i possibly can. Hope it can benefit anyone who reads it. ;D
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A matter of faith or a matter of fact? I find that often one either 'seemingly' has faith or tries to factualise (if there is such a word) faith. When I say seemingly, it means one 'believes' blindly without question and on the other hand one questions and looks for the facts till he/she chooses to believe. Which way is right? Is there a right way?
For me a combination works as there are certain things our limited mind cannot perceive and for that we need blind faith so to speak and for other things we do need to question to gain the foundations of our practice. If we lean too much either way, our spiritual practice may not stand the test of time.
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Faith is the only thing keeping me up when all my guards are down and when what I seem to perceive should lead me to give up.
Example:
My football team is loosing the match, all my fellow supporters already think it is lost, we are at 10 minutes from the end but I have faith they are going to make it! That's faith.
Maybe we loose the match anyway, but that was kind of a stupid faith to entertain, right? The basis was faulty.
Here we are talking about having faith that I can achieve Buddhahood, that is far from being a stupid faith.
The best way to keep this faith up is through Guru Devotion, by having faith that one's guru is a Buddha. For if I can't see Buddhahood in my Teacher, I can't see it in me.
One's Spiritual Teacher will push that faith to the limit so that it becomes stronger. This exercise sometimes backfires when faith decreases instead, but this "tension" is necessary for one to progress, it is a calculated risk that every guru has to take with his students.
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My football team is loosing the match, all my fellow supporters already think it is lost, we are at 10 minutes from the end but I have faith they are going to make it! That's faith.
Maybe we loose the match anyway, but that was kind of a stupid faith to entertain, right? The basis was faulty.
Here we are talking about having faith that I can achieve Buddhahood, that is far from being a stupid faith.
The best way to keep this faith up is through Guru Devotion, by having faith that one's guru is a Buddha. For if I can't see Buddhahood in my Teacher, I can't see it in me.
One's Spiritual Teacher will push that faith to the limit so that it becomes stronger. This exercise sometimes backfires when faith decreases instead, but this "tension" is necessary for one to progress, it is a calculated risk that every guru has to take with his students.
Thank you hope rainbow for a relevant sharing.
It is true sometimes we need to be constantly pushed beyond our limits to progress. We cannot remain 'stagnant' as that is NOT growth. if we choose to say we have learnt enough and stay where we are, it really is NOT a spiritual journey is it? It sounds more like a spiritual destination! Faith is a funny (as in strange and not Ha Ha) thing as it is something that is not physically tangible but yet very 'real' and needed in our spiritual practice. And sometimes when one thinks one has faith, a situation comes along which turns one on one's head and whatever faith we have seems to disintegrate. However I do not think it does... it just seems that way because doubt creeps in and we use our so called logical mind to counter that very faith!
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The question perhaps, then, is not whether we have faith in ourselves to practice, but whether we really WANT TO PRACTICE?
Is it really a lack of faith? Or just pure laziness and attachment?
For us to engage in any type of Dharma practice whether Buddhist or not, first and foremost we would have at least some faith. If we do not have faith, we would not even embark on it in the first place.
Given that we have faith and we don't practice and give all sorts of excuses such as we are not good enough or don't know enough, then it becomes an excuse not to practice because we are lazy and not willing to breach our comfort zone.
It could also be there are other competing factors that we are attached to and we are not willing to give up to fully engage in our Dharma practice. However at a deeper level, either way we can say that our faith is not strong enough and therefore not motivated to go beyond what we are comfortable with. Lack of faith is the substantial cause, our laziness and attachment are just by product of our lack of faith.
One way to increase our faith in our Dharma practice is to contemplate on the great works and example of our Lama and to read biographies of other great Buddhist masters and practitioners. When we contemplate and read about their success in their practice and their great deeds, it will inspire us to be more serious in our practice.
When our faith becomes stronger, our laziness towards our practice and attachment to mundane things will gradually fade away.
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It may be our ego playing mind games with us or our laziness that is causing us to lack faith in our Dharma practice. Whatever it is, I believe that if we apply ourselves to our Practice with a strong sense of responsibility and commitment, we will see results of progress. This will surely lead us to grow faith in ourselves regarding our Dharma practice.
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For us to engage in any type of Dharma practice whether Buddhist or not, first and foremost we would have at least some faith.
If we do not have faith, we would not even embark on it in the first place.
WT, when it comes to Dharma of other beliefs, what is faith?
Do you think it is the same essentially?
And what is faith in Buddhism?
The reason I am asking is that there may be a possibility to engage in Dharma without the faith as defined by the religious system.
EX: Mother Theresa in a crisis of faith towards God, but not towards compassion.
??
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In my opinion, it is very important what our faith lead us to do. It doesn’t matter what faith we belong to. But essentially, it must lead us to benefit many others and be a better person. Another very important point in faith is the trust that even when things do not work out as it should, it may be even a good thing and that when we try the second time, we may benefit ourselves and others even more.
Its just like owner of Italian cars, they know the chances are high that the car will fail them and have considerably a lot of trouble. But they will always own one knowing that it will bring them more happiness than not. This is a very worldly example, but it was one that I can relate to.
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As a Mahayana practitioner, my path of Dharma practice is the path to Total Liberation from Suffering, and Full Enlightenment. This is the path that is given to us in the Lamrim. The foundation of this Dharma path is Proper Reliance on one’s Spiritual Guide, that is, properly relying on him, believing that he is a Buddha. This means that to have faith in one’s Dharma practice, one has to begin with having faith in one’s Spiritual Guide as a Buddha.
One has to train oneself to see one’s Spiritual guide as a Buddha. The way to develop faith in Him is to focus on His good qualities, recognize His infinite great compassion and see His skillful and wrathful methods with us as stemming from this infinite love and care for us.
We have to see Him as being even kinder and more compassionate towards us than the Buddha. Why so? This is because he is not just an image that we can pay homage to and a merit field for us to collect merits. He has manifested His Nirmanakaya form to us, the same form as us, so that he can teach the Dharma to us directly and guide us directly on our Dharma path. He is our Ego’s assassin and when we finally realize the inner Guru in us, we would be manifesting our own inner inherent Buddha nature already.
He is the supreme field of merit for us to collect merits and often ‘effects’ our purification of our negative karma for us, before the conditions ripen for that negative karma to manifest in its full-blown form. As the Lamrim prayer of Je Tsongkapa says:
“Well realizing that the root of the Path,
The foundation of every realization
Is to properly rely on my kind Guru
Bless me to do so with great effort and devotion”.
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The question perhaps, then, is not whether we have faith in ourselves to practice, but whether we really WANT TO PRACTICE?
Is it really a lack of faith? Or just pure laziness and attachment?
Many people underestimate the power of our subsconscious mind. If we continue to feed the mind with positive affirmations the mind will accomplish positive results. Likewise the mind will produce only negative results when it is always enveloped by negative thoughts. This is in line with the Law of Cause and Effect.
If we always find excuses or justifications to cover our lack of confidence or faith to do something new and challenging, our repeated negative conditioning of our mind will cause our mind to become negative. If this conditioning is not stopped and our negativities purified, the consequences will become bigger when they ripen in the future. The constant negative conditioning of our mind will also trigger negative seeds in our mind to ripen. When the negativities gather momentum, they become very difficult for us to overcome. One of the effects is that we become lazy. Laziness will develop until it becomes detrimental to our spiritual practice and growth.
If we are lack of faith, our spirtual practice won't grow either. Instead it will degenerate or we may totally stop practising! Faith is so fundamental that without it, spiritual practitioners cannot accomplish any attainment.
Having developed complete faith to practise, we will be passionate about accomplishing our spiritual goals. There is no question about not to practise. However, laziness does interfere with our practice when we are not alert and we let our lazy mind control us.
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The question perhaps, then, is not whether we have faith in ourselves to practice, but whether we really WANT TO PRACTICE?
Is it really a lack of faith? Or just pure laziness and attachment?
Many people underestimate the power of our subsconscious mind. If we continue to feed the mind with positive affirmations the mind will accomplish positive results. Likewise the mind will produce only negative results when it is always enveloped by negative thoughts. This is in line with the Law of Cause and Effect.
If we always find excuses or justifications to cover our lack of confidence or faith to do something new and challenging, our repeated negative conditioning of our mind will cause our mind to become negative. If this conditioning is not stopped and our negativities purified, the consequences will become bigger when they ripen in the future. The constant negative conditioning of our mind will also trigger negative seeds in our mind to ripen. When the negativities gather momentum, they become very difficult for us to overcome. One of the effects is that we become lazy. Laziness will develop until it becomes detrimental to our spiritual practice and growth.
If we are lack of faith, our spirtual practice won't grow either. Instead it will degenerate or we may totally stop practising! Faith is so fundamental that without it, spiritual practitioners cannot accomplish any attainment.
Having developed complete faith to practise, we will be passionate about accomplishing our spiritual goals. There is no question about not to practise. However, laziness does interfere with our practice when we are not alert and we let our lazy mind control us.
Faith is no doubt the basic fundamental foundation for our spiritual growth and practice. Laziness is a just bad habit and attitude. Laziness is at most times an excuse to not do anything. Laziness is the root to irresponsibility. So, laziness will definitely be an obstacle to spiritual growth. In fact it is an obstacle to anything we want to achieve in life.
This then leads to say that if one is lazy does it say they are not spiritual? I have met some people who are really lazy couch potatoes literally, but when it come to prayers and festive periods, they will be on top of things and complete their prayers, etc. I find this quite interesting...
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For us to engage in any type of Dharma practice whether Buddhist or not, first and foremost we would have at least some faith.
If we do not have faith, we would not even embark on it in the first place.
WT, when it comes to Dharma of other beliefs, what is faith?
Do you think it is the same essentially?
And what is faith in Buddhism?
The reason I am asking is that there may be a possibility to engage in Dharma without the faith as defined by the religious system.
EX: Mother Theresa in a crisis of faith towards God, but not towards compassion.
??
Faith is the believe in something that can protect you, whichever religion you may be it.
In Buddhism, faith means the believe in the teachings of the Buddha which can be summarized in its entirety as the doctrine of cause and effect or karma. We believe that if we abide by the law of cause and effect and act accordingly to create all the virtuous causes, we will reap good results. Then not only we will be protected, we will also be able to protect others.
Faith do not necessarily has to be towards a saviour God. Perhaps, the reason why she was facing a crisis of faith towards God was probably she realized that there is no such thing as a saviour God but the faith that she embraces deem it blasphemous to even have such a thought. She has a dilemma of whether to trust her own instincts or to trust the Bible which is supposed to be infallible.
In the case of mother Theresa, it could be simply be based on her instincts that she has faith in the power of compassion, the power of wanting to free others for suffering. Perhaps she is a Buddhist without even herself realizing it. Aren't all Buddhas and Bodhisattvas born out of the mind of compassion and therefore has become enlightened or worked to be enlightened so that they are in the best position to free other beings from suffering?
My answer to your question is yes. Yes it is possible to practice Dharma without the faith as defined by a religious system because Dharma is correct conduct eg kindness, generosity, patience etc that can be practised by anyone and they don't have to be under the umbrella of a religious system.
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For us to engage in any type of Dharma practice whether Buddhist or not, first and foremost we would have at least some faith.
If we do not have faith, we would not even embark on it in the first place.
WT, when it comes to Dharma of other beliefs, what is faith?
Do you think it is the same essentially?
And what is faith in Buddhism?
The reason I am asking is that there may be a possibility to engage in Dharma without the faith as defined by the religious system.
EX: Mother Theresa in a crisis of faith towards God, but not towards compassion.
??
Faith is the believe in something that can protect you, whichever religion you may be it.
In Buddhism, faith means the believe in the teachings of the Buddha which can be summarized in its entirety as the doctrine of cause and effect or karma. We believe that if we abide by the law of cause and effect and act accordingly to create all the virtuous causes, we will reap good results. Then not only we will be protected, we will also be able to protect others.
Faith do not necessarily has to be towards a saviour God. Perhaps, the reason why she was facing a crisis of faith towards God was probably she realized that there is no such thing as a saviour God but the faith that she embraces deem it blasphemous to even have such a thought. She has a dilemma of whether to trust her own instincts or to trust the Bible which is supposed to be infallible.
In the case of mother Theresa, it could be simply be based on her instincts that she has faith in the power of compassion, the power of wanting to free others for suffering. Perhaps she is a Buddhist without even herself realizing it. Aren't all Buddhas and Bodhisattvas born out of the mind of compassion and therefore has become enlightened or worked to be enlightened so that they are in the best position to free other beings from suffering?
My answer to your question is yes. Yes it is possible to practice Dharma without the faith as defined by a religious system because Dharma is correct conduct eg kindness, generosity, patience etc that can be practised by anyone and they don't have to be under the umbrella of a religious system.
What you say here is very appealing and applicable to Life. I have many friends who do not have a specific religion. They call themselves Atheists and they preach to be good and not kill or lie, and do not hurt people.
As much as I can understand that "it is possible to practice Dharma without the faith as defined by a religious system because Dharma is correct conduct eg kindness, generosity, patience etc that can be practised by anyone and they don't have to be under the umbrella of a religious system."
My question is: Is that enough to generate positive Karma? I understand that we are from previous lives and mindstreams which carry with it the negative and positive Karma into this current life. Is it enough to purify our previous negative karma just to be dormant and be good? How about doing more to accumulate positive Karma in this life?
And if yes we need to do more, then I ask would not it be good that we are part of a religious system in order to do more to benefit others beyond our limitations?
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Whatever religion one belongs to, one must have faith. If one does not have faith then why go on a spiritual path?
If one believes that by having faith in a Buddha or God one will be protected and looked after by the supreme one, then one should not let laziness prevent oneself from pursuing the spiritual path. One must have a bit of faith to embark on this spiritual path and when one sees the benefit or receives some results then faith will become stronger. In my opinion from the Buddhist point of view, one must have faith and the right motivation to achieve attainment.
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Thanks everyone for very good inputs. Faith functions to overcome doubts. We need to remind ourselves what are we having faith in and what are the doubts we need to overcome? It is important to know the object of our faith because it is the object that gives us the purpose and basis upon which correct faith is built. Everyone can develop faith. To qualify as a true Buddhist practice, the object of our faith would necessarily have to be at least Refuge ( in the 3 jewels) , or depending on one's motivation along the Buddhist path , renunciation , bodhicitta and correct view of voidness. Resistance , laziness , lack of effort or enthusiasm to generate the aforementioned qualities of mind are signs that we have doubts as to their benefits , our Spiritual Guide's nature and his instructions.
In the context of spiritual practice, I think it is not so much we lack faith in ourselves when we say we cannot, rather it is the lack of faith in our Spiritual teacher who say we can.
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My question is: Is that enough to generate positive Karma? I understand that we are from previous lives and mindstreams which carry with it the negative and positive Karma into this current life. Is it enough to purify our previous negative karma just to be dormant and be good? How about doing more to accumulate positive Karma in this life?
And if yes we need to do more, then I ask would not it be good that we are part of a religious system in order to do more to benefit others beyond our limitations?
Dear diamond girl, what you are asking really got me thinking. I can give you an answer now but I will find out more and answer later.
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Faith is the only thing keeping me up when all my guards are down and when what I seem to perceive should lead me to give up.
We all have doubts and it takes control of our body, speech and mind so quickly when we are faced with afflictive emotions.
Since we have yet to get rid of doubts and its stains immediately, recognizing that we do have doubts is important.
I've been caught countless times by my doubts...but am slowly learning to doubt my own deluded perceptions and keep the faith in the three jewels firmly.
From experience, the struggle is because of the ego manifesting it's ugly, self righteousness. Therefore, holding our faith firmly becomes a challenge and struggle because people and circumstances doesn't conform to what we think or expect it should be. Thus, perhaps many are not able to accept the methods of holy lama's manifested thru "crazy wisdom".
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What you say here is very appealing and applicable to Life. I have many friends who do not have a specific religion. They call themselves Atheists and they preach to be good and not kill or lie, and do not hurt people.
As much as I can understand that "it is possible to practice Dharma without the faith as defined by a religious system because Dharma is correct conduct eg kindness, generosity, patience etc that can be practised by anyone and they don't have to be under the umbrella of a religious system."
My question is: Is that enough to generate positive Karma? I understand that we are from previous lives and mindstreams which carry with it the negative and positive Karma into this current life. Is it enough to purify our previous negative karma just to be dormant and be good? How about doing more to accumulate positive Karma in this life?
And if yes we need to do more, then I ask would not it be good that we are part of a religious system in order to do more to benefit others beyond our limitations?
Dear Diamond Girl,
I have often wondered and pondered upon the very question you posed above. I may not have THE answer but I believe in sharing what I think works for me may work for someone else. After all, we are all on our spiritual path or journey of discovery and learning!!!
Here is how I see it... It really is not a good thing in the long run to just be dormant and think we do not harm others and do some good we are fine. Perhaps we are in this lifetime based upon our accumulated good merits from our previous lives which "presents" us with a relatively good life in the present.
Imagine your bank account as your merit bank. And with each lifetime you withdraw from that merit bank which in turns equals good karma... what happens when that merit bank reaches zero or below? Well that is when we experience the opening of bad karma. But then again it does not mean bad karma does not happen when our merit bank is in a healthy "balance". It does too but one can "cushion" the fall by using up more from the merit bank. Hence it is crucial that the merit bank is kept at an optimum balance so to speak.
We need to keep depositing good merits in the bank in order for us to ensure we have continuous ability to "withdraw". And when we reach a "bank balance" of enumerable merits we do not need to worry about the withdrawals as at this point the "interest" is exponential and the balance goes up regardles... Thats how I delude my own deluded mind into thinking in its own realm!!! :P
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The question naturally arises, "faith in what exactly?" I would like to suggest three things we ought to have faith in. Looking at this question strictly from the practical viewpoint of progress in meditation, the yogi must first of all have faith in the practice. Without this confidence, you will get nowhere. In an actual retreat situation this also implies faith in the teacher and his instructions. If you can't feel complete confidence in the teacher, then find another teacher. You won't get anywhere if you question the meditation instructions all the time. For the duration of the retreat, just surrender and do it.
It shouldn't need to be pointed out that faith in the teacher is not guru worship, which has no place in Theravada Buddhism. Faith here is not a helpless dependence on another, nor is a blind belief that the teacher is flawless. It is, or ought to be, a feeling of trust and confidence in the Dhamma presented by the teacher, as something valuable and worth heeding. During a practice session, it should be the courage and discipline to follow the instructions instead of the whisperings of monkey mind.
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Depending in the religion faith is belief in a god or gods or in the doctrines or teachings of the religion informal usage can be quite bad,including trust or belief without proof.
In religion's view,faith and knowledge are both required for spiritual growth.It involves more than outward obedience to this authority,but also must be based on a deep personal understanding of religious teachings While faith in Buddhism does not imply 'blind' faith.Buddhist faith nonetheless requires a degree of faith and belief,primarily in the spiritual attainment of Gautama Buddha.
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It is important to have faith when we start on anything. Whether spiritual or secular, faith must be there for us to pursue the goal.
In secular matters, we must have faith to preserve and work hard to achieve our goals and the most important faith is the believe in self.
As such if we have faith in what Shakymuni Buddha said that we all have Buddha nature, then do we have the courage to let go of our attachments, study and pursue the path to enlightment.