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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: daka on February 16, 2019, 02:06:23 PM

Title: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: daka on February 16, 2019, 02:06:23 PM
The picture below shows an advertisement poster of passport application service posted in front of Nyingma House at Majnu Ka Tilla. Majnu ka tilla is a colony in Delhi, India. The land was allotted by the Government of India to the Tibetan refugees in 1960. Today, it is home to second generation of Tibet refugees and is also known as Samyeling Tibetan settlement, through colloquially as "Little-Tibet" or "Mini-Tibet". There are about 3000 Tibetans living in Samyeling.

(http://i66.tinypic.com/ajxtt4.jpg)

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ls8awn.jpg)

(http://i67.tinypic.com/24cytdt.jpg)

(http://i66.tinypic.com/10onxv6.jpg)


According to some sources, advertisements like this to speed up passport application process and making the application process easy for Tibetans, are now easily seen all over Majnu Ka Tilla Delhi Tibetan settlement area. Many companies and agencies, both Indian and Tibetan are openly and boldly providing this service to the Tibetan community there.   

It shows that:
(1) There is an increasing demands of Tibetans wanting to apply for Indian passport.
(2) Tibetans want the process to be fast.
(3) Tibetans are not afraid to openly admit their wish to become Indian Citizen.
(4) Tibetan government have failed to stop their own people from pursuing Indian Citizenship.
(5) This phenomena is so common that it will soon be spreaded to all other Tibetan settlements.

Under current situation, Tibetans in India who are not Indian citizen are not allowed to own land in India, are not allowed to start their own large-scale businesses and are ineligible for jobs with the government of India. As a result, Tibetans residing in India primarily work in the fields of agriculture, animal husbandry, manufacturing and selling sweaters and other textiles, and in the service industry. Younger generation of Tibetans who graduated from colleges with professional degree were also not eligible to apply for professional jobs. 
 
Tibetan will have to obtain Indian citizenship in order to enjoy the above benefit of getting land and jobs etc. However, the process of applying for the Indian passport has never been easy for Tibetans. Part of the reason came from previous Indian policy of supporting the Tibetan cause, part came from the objection from Tibetan goverment. CTA actually said that those who apply for Indian passport are traitors of Tibetan cause.

However the scenario has started to change since last year. On 14 September 2018, High Court of Delhi issued an order to streamline processing of passport applications. On 17 September the same year, the Minister of External Affairs of India sent a directive to all the passport-issuing authorities to allow surrender of Tibetans’ Registration Certificate (RC) and Identity Certificate (IC) at their offices.

The Citizenship Law of India 1955 says that anybody born in India between 26 January 1950 and 1 July 1987 and their descendants, as per India’s citizenship law, are considered citizens of India by birth, and therefore eligible for Indian passport.

However, the MEA directive has included an old rule that said: Tibetan refugees should not be staying in any of the designated Tibetan Refugee settlements nor enjoying any CTA benefits or subsidies after receipt of an Indian passport.

Therefore, by issueing the order, India has openly said that they are no longer supporting Tibetan cause. It also means that the CTA has less influence over their Indian host.

This is not the only cause that encourage Tibetans to become Indian citizen. On one hand India has made the application process easier, on the other hand, according to some source, the Tibetan government due to their incompetence has made the process of renewing the Tibetan card extremely slow. Some even have to wait for one year before they can get the Tibetan card renewed.

At the same time, Tibetan government shows no effort in providing more opportunities and benefits to their own people in order to counter Indian's offer. They offer no solution to the above-mentioned problems. This contributes to the lost of confidence among Tibetan population in their government which further encourage them to pursuing Indian citizenship.

According to the Tibetan government’s advisor on Tibet Affairs Amitabh Mathur (September 11, 2018), a sharp decline has been recorded in the number of Tibetan refugees in India — from 1.5 lakh to 85,000 in the last seven years — with a large number either migrating to the US or returning to China/Tibet. Now with this new order to streamline processing of passport applications by the Indian government, we can foresee the numbers drop will become even more obvious.

A sharp decline of Tibetan refugees in India would mean the CTA would have less and less people under their control. And with many young educated Tibetan who chose to migrate to other countries or becoming Indian citizen, the potential candidates to make up the Tibetan government will become less too. Less population and less good leadership will bring clear negative impact to the Tibetan government and further weaken their political power. Also, with less Tibetan refugees, CTA would loss their main reason to attract international sponsorship.

Domestically, those Tibetans who are becoming Indians have two ramifications, they will have to work for their own livelihood and not ask for handouts. Because of that, the CTA can no longer ask the Indian government for further aid, handouts assistance, etc. So in that way the CTA is going to lose out even more.

For the past 60 years, Tibetans have refused Indian citizenship with the hope of going back to Tibet. They would rather endure working labour job, owning no properties, and travel nowhere. His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the leader of all Tibetans in exile. He has not applied for Indian citizenship and is still a refugee. So why are Tibetans now rushing to apply Indian citizenships? By becoming naturalized Indians, they are basically saying they have given up fighting for the Tibetan cause and are now telling the world that they agree that Tibet is a part of China.                                                                                                           

As this trend continues, with no financial resources and real political power, and less and less Tibetan people to 'govern' we can foresee that CTA will gradually become even more insignificant in the world arena. Whatever policy that they implemented or trying to implement would have not much effect.

When the day comes, it will be a great news for all Dorje Shugden practitioners as the Dorje Shugden ban will bear no effect anymore.
Title: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: thaimonk on February 16, 2019, 02:35:39 PM
The most famous Tibetan refugee in India is the Dalai Lama. He is not applying for Indian citizenship as a show of example to his exiled Tibetans in India. Show of what? That he is a Tibetan citizen and he wishes to return to Tibet. That he is a refugee in India. He is fighting the Tibetan cause. So why are the Tibetans in India applying for Indian citizenship? Don't they support the Dalai Lama's stance that they should remain refugees and not become Indian nationals?

Why are the Tibetans in India not supporting the Dalai Lama to remain refugees?


Photo: Dalai Lama with Panchen Lama visiting India
Title: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: vajratruth on February 16, 2019, 02:44:55 PM

Therefore, by issueing the order, India has openly said that they are no longer supporting Tibetan cause. It also means that the CTA has less influence over their Indian host.

This is not the only cause that encourage Tibetans to become Indian citizen. On one hand India has made the application process easier, on the other hand, according to some source, the Tibetan government due to their incompetence has made the process of renewing the Tibetan card extremely slow. Some even have to wait for one year before they can get the Tibetan card renewed.


What is significant is this - such passport services seem to be proliferating because there is an increase demand for it. In other words, a large percentage of Tibetans no longer believe in the cause or no longer have confidence in the Dalai Lama/CTA to secure Tibetan autonomy or independence.

For the 'Tibetan cause' to survive, there must be Tibetans actually fighting for it. But the Tibetan people seems to now want to become Indian citizens. Once they become Indian citizens, it is clear they have given up the fight and have decided to move on and secure decent livelihoods which they have been denied under 60 years of CTA rule.

We already know that the number of Tibetan refugees have fallen to some 85,000 in India. And this is before an increase in Indian passports applications and before the process of becoming Indian was made easier. So in fact, we can expect the number of Tibetan refugees remaining to fall even drastically. At some point, the CTA will not be able to justify its own existence because its reason for existing is to supposedly steer the Tibetan cause and look after the Tibetan refugees. They have done neither.

That the Indian government allowing this kind of service to be widespread is also a hint that they are no longer behind the CTA and the Tibetan cause. As Tibetan refugees, the Indian government has to defer to the CTA but once the Tibetan refugees become Indian citizens, they must obey Indian laws.

What is also significant is the CTA cannot stop this. It is no longer an idea or suggestion but a process. Before the CTA made it taboo for anyone to seek an Indian passport because it means they have to relinquish their CTA 'citizenship'. But so many CTA officials secretly applied for Indian passports or secured their permanent residence with other countries. Dhardhon Sharling even boasted about getting hers and now she's off to US supposedly to study. She shows that to study and improve her own standing is more important than the Tibetan cause. So if that's the case, all Tibetan refugees should follow. Lobsang Sangay in the meantime never let go of his American residency status. It turns out those who believed the CTA are the biggest losers.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: thaimonk on February 16, 2019, 08:04:06 PM
There is an interesting article on this which explains so much- http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/the-dalai-lama-remains-a-refugee-but-his-people-will-not/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/the-dalai-lama-remains-a-refugee-but-his-people-will-not/)


The Dalai Lama and Tibetan leaders (CTA) have really lost their people's trust. More Tibetans are getting Indian passports as the aged Dalai Lama cannot get anyone back to Tibet. So many promises have been made they will return to Tibet but all the promises have been not fulfilled.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: thaimonk on February 16, 2019, 08:35:49 PM
The Dalai Lama's personal protector Nechung has taken trance of their official oracle in Dharamsala hundreds of times. Nechung on many occasions have promised the Dalai Lama to tell the Tibetan people they will return to Tibet. It has been 60 years of saying this in exile. Many of the older generations who came from Tibet into exile in India have died off while waiting to return to Tibet. The new generation of Tibetans born in India are more Indian than Tibetan. Many Tibetans born in foreign countries beyond India cannot speak the Tibetan language well anymore and identify with their adoptive countries more than Tibet. Clearly Nechung's prophecies do not come true for important issues such as returning to Tibet.

Tibetans in India and around the world have lost hope in Nechung protector. Therefore the Tibetans in India are not even waiting for the Dalai Lama to die but getting Indian citizenship now while Dalai Lama is alive. How can they get Indian citizenship when Dalai Lama is still on refugee status and not an Indian citizen? Simple, Tibetans quietly lost trust in him.

It's strange as Nechung also said to the Dalai Lama to ban Dorje Shugden back in 1996. If this is done, then Nechung will be pleased and trust will be repaired between him and the Tibetan people and Tibetans can get Tibet back. This has not happened still.

Photos:

1. Nechung protector in trance of the official oracle monk speaking with Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama heavily relies on this spirit who was originally evil and subdued by Padmasambhava for much of his decisions. Tibetans lost hope in Nechung.

2. Nechung protector in a painting.

3. Nechung protector statue with many offerings in front of him. In this temple of Nechung, more offerings are made to him although he is a spirit than to Lord Buddha. This is encouraged by the Tibetan leadership.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: DharmaDefender on February 16, 2019, 08:55:06 PM
There is an interesting article on this which explains so much- [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/the-dalai-lama-remains-a-refugee-but-his-people-will-not/[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/the-dalai-lama-remains-a-refugee-but-his-people-will-not/[/url])


The Dalai Lama and Tibetan leaders (CTA) have really lost their people's trust. More Tibetans are getting Indian passports as the aged Dalai Lama cannot get anyone back to Tibet. So many promises have been made they will return to Tibet but all the promises have been not fulfilled.


I just read this. A real handy analysis into the situation, thanks for posting it mate. Seems things are pretty bleak for them if their willing to risk being called anti-Dalai Lama just to get an Indian passport. Wonder how the CTA is going to explain things away this time. While Sangays off gallivanting again in the States, biggin himself up about how hes such a wonderfully democratic leader, his people back home are abandoning him in droves.

Sangay, if your such a fantastic leader yeah, how come no one wants to be led by you?  ???
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: thaimonk on February 16, 2019, 08:55:35 PM
Nechung protector’s command and promise to the Dalai Lama unfulfilled. Nechung promised Dalai Lama if Dorje Shugden's practice was banned, then the he can get Tibet back and Tibetans can return to Tibet.



It’s strange as Nechung also said to the Dalai Lama to ban Dorje Shugden back in 1996. If this is done, then Nechung will be pleased and trust will be repaired between him and the Tibetan people and Tibetans can get Tibet back. This has not happened still. Nechung on many occasions make promises to the Tibetan people but it has been unfulfilled. Tibetans lost trust in Nechung.

The ban against Shugden as requested by Nechung did not fulfill it’s purpose. Many Tibetans are questioning this now. The Tibetans say no benefits have arisen from banning Dorje Shugden’s practice. Only disharmony and disunity arose from this ban. The ban was wrong. Many Tibetans in India and abroad are quietly and secretly returning to Dorje Shugden’s practice now. Many Tibetans said they have practiced Dorje Shugden for many generations and were forced to give up the practice hoping to get Tibet back as promised by Nechung. But this has not happened.



Photo:

Statue of Nechung in Nechung Monastery. Many senior Tibetan lamas question why Nechung who is a spirit originally from Persia brought to Tibet by traders get more offerings on his shrine than Lord Buddha? Why does a spirit get more offerings than Lord Buddha Himself? Dalai Lama said we should make more offerings to Buddha and not a spirit yet Nechung gets more offerings. Why does the Dalai Lama allow this as it contradicts his own advice.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: SabS on February 16, 2019, 09:06:02 PM
The Dalai Lama's personal protector Nechung has taken trance of their official oracle in Dharamsala hundreds of times. Nechung on many occasions have promised the Dalai Lama to tell the Tibetan people they will return to Tibet. It has been 60 years of saying this in exile. Many of the older generations who came from Tibet into exile in India have died off while waiting to return to Tibet. The new generation of Tibetans born in India are more Indian than Tibetan. Many Tibetans born in foreign countries beyond India cannot speak the Tibetan language well anymore and identify with their adoptive countries more than Tibet. Clearly Nechung's prophecies do not come true for important issues such as returning to Tibet.

Tibetans in India and around the world have lost hope in Nechung protector. Therefore the Tibetans in India are not even waiting for the Dalai Lama to die but getting Indian citizenship now while Dalai Lama is alive. How can they get Indian citizenship when Dalai Lama is still on refugee status and not an Indian citizen? Simple, Tibetans quietly lost trust in him.

It's strange as Nechung also said to the Dalai Lama to ban Dorje Shugden back in 1996. If this is done, then Nechung will be pleased and trust will be repaired between him and the Tibetan people and Tibetans can get Tibet back. This has not happened still.

This is the saddest ever. It seems that when Nechung made that declaration and the Dalai Lama announced it, all the Tibetan refugees left their personal belongings unpacked, ready to go at the moment's notice. Five years they waited and then its seven years but until now nothing came out of it. Now new generations had grown and never having been to Tibet or understanding the need to go back to Tibet, the Tibetan cause is losing their effects. As such it is of no surprise that the notices of passport application services are cropping up so profusely in the Tibetan camps. The people are seeking to be responsible for their own lives rather than rely on unreliable Tibetan Leaders. After all, CTA only wants to keep them as refugees to be able to be sycophants on the generosity of others. CTA had never bothered about the Dalai Lama other than to use him as a money generating machine so why would they care to carry out his dream in supporting the return to Tibet? Going back to Tibet holds no interest to CTA as they will not be able to fool the Chinese government for easy money. Sikyong Lobsang Sangay himself is not even Tibetan but an American.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: KarmaRangdrol on February 17, 2019, 06:31:38 AM
Tibetans in India and around the world have lost hope in Nechung protector. Therefore the Tibetans in India are not even waiting for the Dalai Lama to die but getting Indian citizenship now while Dalai Lama is alive. How can they get Indian citizenship when Dalai Lama is still on refugee status and not an Indian citizen? Simple, Tibetans quietly lost trust in him.

True. My momo la would never dream of saying it but I know in her heart thats what drove her to move to... wouldn't you like to know where ;) She already saw years ago that it was never going to work out. She still loves His Holiness and has his photo on her chosham and all that, but going back to Tibet? Nah. She knows His Holiness isn't moving in that direction anymore and yeah, she misses it, wants to go back and all that but realises it's not the Tibet she grew up in anymore.

I guess many of our older (and now younger too) generation feel that way. They just can't find the words to articulate or bring themselves to verbalise it. You know how it goes. They think if they say it out loud, it becomes true  ::)
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Alex on February 17, 2019, 07:45:03 AM
If I am a Tibetan refugee and I have waited for 60 years to go back to Tibet, I would have lost hope by now already. The Tibetan leadership has been giving empty promises one after another and there is still no progress on the Tibet cause until now. Who in the world remains as a refugee for more than half a century?

With the current Tibetan leadership, there is no way that they can bring the Tibetans in Exile back to Tibet. There are too busy chasing after their own fantasies and selfish agendas. They do not care about the Tibetans at all and they exploit them to get what they want.

It is logical for the Tibetans in exile to move on and take on Indian citizenship to fight for a better future for themselves after 60 years of stagnant in being a refugee. Soon, the Tibetan leadership will not have any Tibetans in exile left to manipulate and they will eventually have to disband.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tracy on February 17, 2019, 12:46:56 PM
People who are enthusiastic about the Tibet cause will be those who escaped from Tibet together with the Dalai Lama in the 50s and 60s. Most of them probably are not around anymore or they are very old now. Majority of the Tibetans are the new generations who are born and raised outside Tibet. These new generations are not sentimental about Tibet.

After 60 years of waiting, there is no result from the CTA and as usual, the CTA doesn’t give a direction to the Tibetans. The Tibetans still respect the Dalai Lama but they also know the Dalai Lama is very old now and he will not be able to bring them back to Tibet. The CTA gives them empty promise year after year, no one has the confidence that the CTA will make any difference in the future.

The Tibetans also know that the CTA is only using them to make money, the CTA does not care about their future and welfare. Anyone with sense will not rely on the CTA and gamble their future away. As more Tibetans are migrating or going back to Tibet or opt for Indian citizenship, there will be fewer Tibetans for the CTA to ‘manage’ and to ask for free money from the west. Sooner or later, the CTA will have to dissolve and there is no one for them to manage and there is no more cause to fight for.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Alex on February 17, 2019, 06:35:30 PM
Tibetans are generally fed up with waiting since they have been waiting for 60 years. Tibetan leadership had given them empty promises and excuses so many times. In the meantime, Tibetan leadership did all they can to get more donations from countries around the world.

The population of Tibetan in exile now is the generation that has not even set foot in Tibet now. They will not have the passion to fight for Tibet’s freedom, unlike the generation that actually fled Tibet 60 years ago. That is why it is not surprising to see the Tibetans now are slowly embracing the fact that they will not go back to Tibet.

Many of them had even fled India to western countries to fight for a better future. It is obvious that even in India, the Tibetan government are not taking good care of their own people which forces them to flee the place that they know so well again. That is why Tibetans are cleaver to have moved on and not wait for their government to bring them back to Tibet.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: thaimonk on February 18, 2019, 06:25:17 AM
The Tibetans always say they follow the Dalai Lama in all his policies. If that is the case why does the Dalai Lama remain a refugee status and his people are becoming Indian citizens?

The only time Tibetans can become Indian citizens is if the Dalai Lama makes a public announcement about doing so and he has not so far.

So Tibetans in India becoming Indians are not supporting the Dalai Lama?
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: daka on February 18, 2019, 08:06:20 AM
Obviously Tibetan nowadays don't really care about the Dalai Lama's decision and direction anymore. Respect is earned if a promised is fulfilled. Since the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan government and the state protector Nechung could never fulfill what they have promised and it's been 60 years, who else will keep believing in them? 60 years means a lifetime of waiting. Many have died disappointed.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tracy on March 14, 2019, 07:30:43 AM
It's funny, the Dalai Lama wants to remain as a refugee to show his commitment to the Tibet cause but most of the CTA members have a passport of another country. So in fact, the CTA is going against the Dalai Lama, they themselves don't believe in the cause. The Dalai Lama actually doesn't get much support from the the CTA.

Tibetans have suffered much being a refugee, they don't have the basic right of a citizen, they don't have an identity. They are like living in the bardo, they cannot plan their future, they don't really see the hope. After 60 years of waiting, even if they respect and love the Dalai Lama, they just have to do something for themselves. They have to move on.

It is not fair to let the Tibetans wait forever while the members of the CTA have already had a great plan for themselves. Tibetans have finally realised that the Tibet Cause is a mission impossible. The Dalai Lama is getting very old and they have accepted the fact that Tibet will never be independent. Thus, we see many Tibetans choose to migrate to other countries, take Indian citizenship or they rather go back to Tibet.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Drolma on March 14, 2019, 08:06:21 AM
It's funny, the Dalai Lama wants to remain as a refugee to show his commitment to the Tibet cause but most of the CTA members have a passport of another country. So in fact, the CTA is going against the Dalai Lama, they themselves don't believe in the cause. The Dalai Lama actually doesn't get much support from the the CTA.

Tibetans have suffered much being a refugee, they don't have the basic right of a citizen, they don't have an identity. They are like living in the bardo, they cannot plan their future, they don't really see the hope. After 60 years of waiting, even if they respect and love the Dalai Lama, they just have to do something for themselves. They have to move on.

It is not fair to let the Tibetans wait forever while the members of the CTA have already had a great plan for themselves. Tibetans have finally realised that the Tibet Cause is a mission impossible. The Dalai Lama is getting very old and they have accepted the fact that Tibet will never be independent. Thus, we see many Tibetans choose to migrate to other countries, take Indian citizenship or they rather go back to Tibet.

CTA is the biggest hypocrite and liar in the world. On the surface, they show a  lot of respect to the Dalai Lama, but in reality, they are only using the Dalai Lama for their personal gain, they disregard the Dalai Lama most of the time. They have to show respect to the Dalai Lama because only the Dalai Lama can command the Tibetans and attract the sponsors.

It is not hard to see that CTA always uses the Dalai Lama's name when they want to give instructions to the Tibetans or get sponsorship from the Dalai Lama. The CTA doesn't have the commanding power to control the Tibetans and they are not able to garner support from the west if they are without the Dalai Lama.

Even though the Dalai Lama is so important to the CTA but the CTA doesn't support the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama shows his commitment to the Tibet Cause by remaining as a refugee but most of the members of CTA have already become a citizen of the country they have chosen. The Dalai Lama wants to pursue the Middle Way approach but the CTA is not cooperative, they are still talking about Free Tibet. Because of the inefficiency of the CTA, the Tibetans have to suffer, they have lost faith in the CTA and they are left with no choice but to move on. So it is actually CTA who does not support the Dalai Lama, not the Tibetans.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: michaela on March 25, 2019, 03:29:52 AM

Many Tibetans escaped China went to exile to improve the quality of their livelihood. For this dream, they are willing to suffer and remain refugees temporarily. But not forever of course. 60 years is a long time and for some people, a lifetime. Who actually wants to be refugees for life if they have a choice. Of course they want to assimilate with the local culture and move on with their lives.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tracy on March 25, 2019, 03:48:51 AM
How would you feel if all the members of your leadership have become a citizen of another country and you still remain as a refugee with no identity and you don't have the freedom to travel, to own property or business? After 60 years, there should be improvements in people's lives but this is not happening in the Tibetan in exile community. If I were a normal Tibetan, I will conclude that my government is hopeless and unreliable, I have to do something for myself. No one wants to be stateless. Maybe it is ok for the Dalai Lama to remain as a refugee because he is a monk so he can't buy a property, he shouldn't be enjoying the secular life, he doesn't need a career and he doesn't need to support a family. But for a normal person, having an identity is important.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Alex on March 25, 2019, 03:55:25 AM
Tibetans refused to stay as refugees because they know that the Tibetan cause is no longer a cause that is worthy to fight for. They have been refugees for 60 years and they have been fighting for Tibet's independence for 60 years. However, all their effort are proven to be useless because their government is useless. There is no way that they will be able to get Tibet back from China. All they can do now is to join China or become part of India. They want to have a better life and being a refugee will not help them in any way. It is better for them to leave their own government and fight for a better future elsewhere.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: pemachen on March 25, 2019, 04:08:42 AM
Tibetans refused to stay as a refugee because they know that the Tibetan cause is no longer worthy for them to fight for. They have been a refugee for 60 years and they have been fighting for Tibet's independence for 60 years. However, all their effort are proven to be useless because their government is useless. There is no way that they will be able to get Tibet back from China. All they can do now is to join China or become part of India. They want to have a better life and being a refugee will not help them in any way. It is better for them to leave their own government and fight for a better future elsewhere.

Honestly, would you stay in India as a Tibetan refugee? Ask yourself that question and you will have the answer. There's nothing wrong with India. In fact, I applaud the Indian government for being so kind to offer Indian citizenships to Tibetans who are eligible. That's why many TIbetans are now applying to become an Indian citizen.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: pemachen on March 25, 2019, 04:34:26 AM
Honestly, would you stay in India as a Tibetan refugee? Ask yourself that question and you will have the answer. There's nothing wrong with India. In fact, I applaud the Indian government for being so kind to offer Indian citizenships to Tibetans who are eligible. That's why many TIbetans are now applying to become an Indian citizen.

I wouldn't. Let me share some of the comments Tibetans have made.


(Rinchen Nyima, from McLeod Ganj)

Dicki Chhoyang’s statement clearly shows that she doesn’t like Lobsang Sangay despite her four and half years of service under him. She sees that he doesn’t have the right qualities to be re-elected. She did what she believed and felt. I appreciate that.

Those who feel that she’s acting on provincial basis is their opinion. I am not getting any feeling that she’s doing that. I am sure many others in CTA as well as outside that felt how Sangay has been doing and executing. I felt that. He is full of himself most of the time. His ideas are also not that great either.

But she definitely helped make re-thinking for those who have no idea at all. Hope the voters will make an informed and right choice for us and for Tibet.

Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: pemachen on March 25, 2019, 04:39:06 AM
Look at this comment by Sonam Tso, this is the type of leadership they have to put up with. So why should they remain as refugees?

The statement released by Kasur Dicki la gives us reason to think once again before we cast our vote for Sikyong. There is good reason for us to listen and find out what she has to say regarding incumbent Sikyong and his view on sensitive issues and style of functioning during his tenure. This election is very important and it will determine the course of our history. Any person who occupies this high position in Dharamshala, should have some noble qualities to lead people struggling for freedom.

I disagree with some views expressed here against Penpa la and those are not proven in the court of law and it is absolutely wrong and immoral to say such unsubstantiated allegations against any person. If any person has clear evidence against Penpa la, then he should face justice and appear before the court of law. Till then he is consider innocent by law of a land and nobody outside court has right to convict him, especially Lhamo la, living in Washington with little knowledge of judicial matters.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: pemachen on March 25, 2019, 04:41:52 AM
This comment clearly shows you that they would rather not have a Sikyong. But what choice do they have? Also, the problem with the Central Tibetan Administration's bad leadership is not new. People are really sick and tired of Dharamsala's leadership.

Lhamo, from Washington

The choice is simple — choose no Sikyong.

She obviously wants to destroy Sangay, and the only other choice is Tsering who allegedly is a drunk, who murdered a Lama and stole his wife. He is no Statesman. How will any country, NGO, or the international media take the CTA seriously with him in charge?

Postpone the election.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: pemachen on March 25, 2019, 04:46:52 AM
I believe the Tibetans love their Kundun, and they will never abandon His Holiness the Dalai Lama. But if you have to live under the leadership of Lobsang Sangay, you would run.

Look at Lobsang Sangay - I would be afraid to remain a refugee because  I don't know what this type of selfish, self-indulgent leader will do and what type of problems he will create for me and my family. This is not just a matter of status, but rather livelihood, my children's future and more.

Do you trust Lobsang Sangay? Do you trust another Sikyong who may be worse than Lobsang Sangay?
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: pemachen on March 25, 2019, 04:54:18 AM
Many Tibetans escaped China went to exile to improve the quality of their livelihood. For this dream, they are willing to suffer and remain refugees temporarily. But not forever of course. 60 years is a long time and for some people, a lifetime. Who actually wants to be refugees for life if they have a choice. Of course they want to assimilate with the local culture and move on with their lives.

Recently at the Tibetan Uprising protest in Washington, I heard they shouted, "60 years is too long" - instead of shouting that to appeal for help, they should shout that to their own Central Tibetan Adminstration, especially the Sikyong Lobsang Sangay to stop travelling and spending foreign aid money, and really to start doing something for the welfare and benefits of Tibetans. Otherwise, many Tibetans will continue to migrate overseas, or becoming Indian citizens for a more 'secure' future than to remain a refugee. It's very sad and then we will witness the prophecy of the 14th Dalai Lama, who's the most powerful among all Dalai Lama, and who will be the last Dalai Lama :-X :-X
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Rowntree on March 25, 2019, 05:10:24 AM
Clearly, because the Tibetans in India are not the Dalai Lama, they do not have his charisma and intelligence to remain the world most famous and richest refugee. Only the Dalai Lama can continue to leave like this because he doesn't need any paperwork to travel around the world or go anywhere. No one can beat that.

Until and unless they can become like that, Tibetans who are smart enough would want to adopt real citizenship. There is no point for them to live like that and be forever uncertain of their future while hoping for the chance to rise someday.

It is more practical to get proper citizenship and move on.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tracy on March 27, 2019, 05:26:27 PM
Clearly, because the Tibetans in India are not the Dalai Lama, they do not have his charisma and intelligence to remain the world most famous and richest refugee. Only the Dalai Lama can continue to leave like this because he doesn't need any paperwork to travel around the world or go anywhere. No one can beat that.

Until and unless they can become like that, Tibetans who are smart enough would want to adopt real citizenship. There is no point for them to live like that and be forever uncertain of their future while hoping for the chance to rise someday.

It is more practical to get proper citizenship and move on.

Refugees are people who are stateless, they live in another country without a travel document. For the Tibetan refugees, they can move around in India freely but they cannot travel to other countries. They also cannot buy properties or own any business. They have lost a lot of opportunities in life.

For Dalai Lama, it does not matter if he can travel to other countries or own property because he is a monk, these are not important to him and he is not supposed to have the attachment to these things anyway.  But to the normal Tibetans, these are important to them.

It is not fair to ask the Tibetans to remain as refugees forever and not giving them a clear direction of what will happen next. The CTA is not giving Tibetans hope, they have not choice but to move on and plan for themselves. Tibetans are still very respectful to the Dalai Lama but when it comes to their future, they can only rely on themselves.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Alex on March 27, 2019, 06:44:31 PM
Tibetans do not want to continue to be refugees because it is very obvious that they have nothing to do now in the Tibetan settlements in India. They have no chance to be successful and the Tibetan cause is not coming anytime soon. They are stuck there and all they can do is to wait for a miracle or do something to leave CTA behind.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama is different than the rest of the Tibetans. He does not need to worry about this because he can go anywhere and everybody will accept him but not normal Tibetans. That is why Tibetans are afraid for their future and they are trying to fight for their future.

Many Tibetans that went overseas are doing well and they are able to live a life that is better than life in India. Soon the number of Tibetans in exile will drop so much that there is no need for CTA to exist anymore.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: SabS on March 29, 2019, 04:19:51 PM
Yes it is true that the Dalai Lama's status is different from that of his people. He is safeguarded in his palace and has limited restrictions in his travel (that is until recently where many countries disallow his visa to prevent irking China). He receives tons of donations from his followers and this is not counting the sponsorships from countries for his people, the "refugees". On the other hand, what money siphons down to them after CTA takes the cut, is hardly ever for them to progress. In fact, often times they dwell in deep poverty and depend on selling sweaters which hardly cover their basic living expenses. It is a requirement for them to be in poverty. Otherwise, how would Lobsang Sangay & CTA beg for money? Why change now? Well, their faith may not be with them much longer. The Dalai Lama is 83 years old and rumoured to have cancer. With his retirement, people are saying his condition has worsen and they are scared of what will happen if he leaves them. What will become of them? Will India still allow them stay the remaining of 99 years as promised? Will CTA hold them together or will they return to their respective countries since they are holders of the passports of these countries. In other words, there are citizens of those countries which means they are not Tibetan.  >:(

Remain refugee like the Dalai Lama? Well, if they have the same status and wealth, then maybe why not?
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Alex on March 30, 2019, 05:54:47 PM
His Holiness is not a refugee by any means other than the fact that he fled Tibet to take asylum in India. There is no way His Holiness is living the life of a refugee with all those donations and assistance. That is why he is okay to continue to be a refugee.

However, it is a totally different case with the Tibetans who are living in poverty. They do not have many chances in life because of their status as a refugee. For 60 years, Tibetans lived in India as refugees and take a look at what they have achieved? Then, look at those Tibetans who left India to fight for their future in foreign countries.

The Tibetans in exile have a lot of choices now because even China is opening their door to those Tibetan who wanted to return to Tibet. Any choice is better than the choice of remaining in the Tibetan settlements because there is no future there.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tracy on April 26, 2019, 12:55:21 AM
Yes it is true that the Dalai Lama's status is different from that of his people. He is safeguarded in his palace and has limited restrictions in his travel (that is until recently where many countries disallow his visa to prevent irking China). He receives tons of donations from his followers and this is not counting the sponsorships from countries for his people, the "refugees". On the other hand, what money siphons down to them after CTA takes the cut, is hardly ever for them to progress. In fact, often times they dwell in deep poverty and depend on selling sweaters which hardly cover their basic living expenses. It is a requirement for them to be in poverty. Otherwise, how would Lobsang Sangay & CTA beg for money? Why change now? Well, their faith may not be with them much longer. The Dalai Lama is 83 years old and rumoured to have cancer. With his retirement, people are saying his condition has worsen and they are scared of what will happen if he leaves them. What will become of them? Will India still allow them stay the remaining of 99 years as promised? Will CTA hold them together or will they return to their respective countries since they are holders of the passports of these countries. In other words, there are citizens of those countries which means they are not Tibetan.  >:(

Remain refugee like the Dalai Lama? Well, if they have the same status and wealth, then maybe why not?

In old Tibet, the Tibetans were segregated into different classes, the majority of them were slaves and were exploited by their landlords or their own government. The rich always became richer and the poor always became poorer. After they escaped from Tibet, even though they are ruled by a democratic government, they are still being exploited by their own government.

The culture of exploiting their own people and taking care only about themselves is still deep-rooted in the Tibetan leadership. Even though the Tibetans in India are ruled by a democratic government now, they are still being suppressed. They have the right to vote for their government but they don't have the right to voice out their dissatisfaction. Whoever voices out, the Tibetan leadership will find ways to get them or encourage the Tibetans to outcast the person who voices out. One very good example is Lukar Jam Atsok whose life was in danger after he exposed the evil side of the Tibetan leadership.

With so much unfairness and promises that are not fulfilled in the past 60 years, the Tibetans know the Dalai Lama will not be able to make any differences in the situation they are in. Life as a refugee is full of uncertainty and the Tibetans, especially the younger generation does not wish to live like that anymore. They may not follow the Dalai Lama but it does not mean they don't respect the Dalai Lama anymore. What they don't appreciate is the selfishness of the Tibetan leadership.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Alex on April 26, 2019, 11:35:18 AM
Yes it is true that the Dalai Lama's status is different from that of his people. He is safeguarded in his palace and has limited restrictions in his travel (that is until recently where many countries disallow his visa to prevent irking China). He receives tons of donations from his followers and this is not counting the sponsorships from countries for his people, the "refugees". On the other hand, what money siphons down to them after CTA takes the cut, is hardly ever for them to progress. In fact, often times they dwell in deep poverty and depend on selling sweaters which hardly cover their basic living expenses. It is a requirement for them to be in poverty. Otherwise, how would Lobsang Sangay & CTA beg for money? Why change now? Well, their faith may not be with them much longer. The Dalai Lama is 83 years old and rumoured to have cancer. With his retirement, people are saying his condition has worsen and they are scared of what will happen if he leaves them. What will become of them? Will India still allow them stay the remaining of 99 years as promised? Will CTA hold them together or will they return to their respective countries since they are holders of the passports of these countries. In other words, there are citizens of those countries which means they are not Tibetan.  >:(

Remain refugee like the Dalai Lama? Well, if they have the same status and wealth, then maybe why not?

In old Tibet, the Tibetans were segregated into different classes, the majority of them were slaves and were exploited by their landlords or their own government. The rich always became richer and the poor always became poorer. After they escaped from Tibet, even though they are ruled by a democratic government, they are still being exploited by their own government.

The culture of exploiting their own people and taking care only about themselves is still deep-rooted in the Tibetan leadership. Even though the Tibetans in India are ruled by a democratic government now, they are still being suppressed. They have the right to vote for their government but they don't have the right to voice out their dissatisfaction. Whoever voices out, the Tibetan leadership will find ways to get them or encourage the Tibetans to outcast the person who voices out. One very good example is Lukar Jam Atsok whose life was in danger after he exposed the evil side of the Tibetan leadership.

With so much unfairness and promises that are not fulfilled in the past 60 years, the Tibetans know the Dalai Lama will not be able to make any differences in the situation they are in. Life as a refugee is full of uncertainty and the Tibetans, especially the younger generation does not wish to live like that anymore. They may not follow the Dalai Lama but it does not mean they don't respect the Dalai Lama anymore. What they don't appreciate is the selfishness of the Tibetan leadership.

The old Tibet is not a happy country at all. 95% of the Tibetans are slaves that are doomed from the day they are born. Those who are slaves will remain as slaves and they will not escape the fate of being a slave just like their parents. The rich will remain as rich while the poor remain as poor. It has been the way of life in Tibet until the invasion of the Chinese.

The Chinese went in and abolished the feudal system while giving aids and benefits to those serfs. Many serfs can create a new life for themselves by using the aids provided by the Chinese government. If the Chinese never went to Tibet, many Tibetans will remain as slaves and be exploited by the rich people in the country.

The Chinese really transformed Tibet into a better place with freedom for the people to do what they want. No religion is banned in Tibet which contributed a lot to the peace that they have now in Tibet. The Dorje Shugden ban is creating an unnecessary issue and created a lot of tension and distress in the community. Let's hope that the Chinese will become more lenient with Tibetans in Exile and allow them to go back to their home in Tibet.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tenzin K on April 26, 2019, 08:30:10 PM
The Tibetan is in desperate already. After 60 years as refugees in India, CTA has not improve any of their welfare and looking at CTA which has no strategy at all to bring the Tibetan back to their homeland, the Tibetans may have to act on their own to work out for their future. After 60 years, Tibetans didn’t see anything beneficial to the them and in fact Tibetans are willing to take chances to explore outside India now.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Alex on May 14, 2019, 03:28:15 PM
Nechung protector’s command and promise to the Dalai Lama unfulfilled. Nechung promised Dalai Lama if Dorje Shugden's practice was banned, then the he can get Tibet back and Tibetans can return to Tibet.



It’s strange as Nechung also said to the Dalai Lama to ban Dorje Shugden back in 1996. If this is done, then Nechung will be pleased and trust will be repaired between him and the Tibetan people and Tibetans can get Tibet back. This has not happened still. Nechung on many occasions make promises to the Tibetan people but it has been unfulfilled. Tibetans lost trust in Nechung.

The ban against Shugden as requested by Nechung did not fulfill it’s purpose. Many Tibetans are questioning this now. The Tibetans say no benefits have arisen from banning Dorje Shugden’s practice. Only disharmony and disunity arose from this ban. The ban was wrong. Many Tibetans in India and abroad are quietly and secretly returning to Dorje Shugden’s practice now. Many Tibetans said they have practiced Dorje Shugden for many generations and were forced to give up the practice hoping to get Tibet back as promised by Nechung. But this has not happened.



Photo:

Statue of Nechung in Nechung Monastery. Many senior Tibetan lamas question why Nechung who is a spirit originally from Persia brought to Tibet by traders get more offerings on his shrine than Lord Buddha? Why does a spirit get more offerings than Lord Buddha Himself? Dalai Lama said we should make more offerings to Buddha and not a spirit yet Nechung gets more offerings. Why does the Dalai Lama allow this as it contradicts his own advice.

Dorje Shugden ban has been around for more than 20 years now, and the Tibetan government is still unable to bring Tibetans in exile back to Tibet. Isn't that what Nechung said? Dorje Shugden is harming the Tibetan cause, and that is the reason why they failed to negotiate with China to give them back an independent Tibet.

So the Tibetan leadership had 20 years to work on Tibetan cause after Dorje Shugden's practice was banned. Then why the Tibetans in exile are still in India? Why aren't they are back in Tibet? So the Tibetan government failed even though there are no disturbances from Dorje Shugden? What is their excuse this time?

Are they going to continue to say it is Dorje Shugden's fault even after the ban on his practice is imposed? Why are they keeping quiet now? What happened to all the allegations they made about Dorje Shugden and a lot of them turn out to be false? The Tibetan government cannot hang on to their lives forever and sooner or later the truth will be revealed.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tenzin K on May 14, 2019, 03:54:58 PM
Tibetan in India had enough of all the lies from the Tibetan leadership. Not that they reject Dalai Lama but they felt cheated by their own leaders for not doing what they promised. It's been 60 years and Tibetan in India have not improved in their welfare but we can see CTA can afford US passport. Even the leaders like Lobsang Sangya already set his path what to say for the rest.

Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tracy on June 09, 2019, 04:15:11 PM
The failure to free Tibet is definitely not Dorje Shugden's fault. Nechung has been giving wrong advices even when the Dalai Lama was still in Tibet. It is said that Nechung is not enlightened, his clairvoyance power is limited. Therefore, the prophecy he gives can be wrong.

CTA is not really putting an effort to make sure Tibet cause is a success. As it is, they are getting free money from their sponsors, they don't have to work hard for anything, why do they want to change the current status? If they really have freed Tibet, they will have to work harder to manage a country with millions of population.

CTA is smart in the sense that they find ways to not do work and find scapegoats to be blamed for their inefficiency. They totally ignore the welfare of the normal Tibetans, they can even sacrifice the lives of the Tibetans to protect their own interest. They constantly encourage the Tibetans to self-immolate.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Alex on June 10, 2019, 02:10:19 AM
The failure to free Tibet is definitely not Dorje Shugden's fault. Nechung has been giving wrong advices even when the Dalai Lama was still in Tibet. It is said that Nechung is not enlightened, his clairvoyance power is limited. Therefore, the prophecy he gives can be wrong.

CTA is not really putting an effort to make sure Tibet cause is a success. As it is, they are getting free money from their sponsors, they don't have to work hard for anything, why do they want to change the current status? If they really have freed Tibet, they will have to work harder to manage a country with millions of population.

CTA is smart in the sense that they find ways to not do work and find scapegoats to be blamed for their inefficiency. They totally ignore the welfare of the normal Tibetans, they can even sacrifice the lives of the Tibetans to protect their own interest. They constantly encourage the Tibetans to self-immolate.

Who wants to forever stay in India and never be able to have a good future? If I am a Tibetan, I would not want to spend the rest of my life in Tibetan settlement camps in India. What a horrible place to be with a horrible government. I would never entrust my future in the hands of CTA.

Just look at what they had accomplished for the past 60 years? Nothing aside from hundreds of Tibetans killing themselves to fight for the independence of Tibet while CTA sits back and did nothing. They even have the audacity to publish a manual to teach the Tibetans on how to immolate themselves better. What kind of government does that?

Tibetans in exile should escape from CTA as fast as they can before they are being used as a pawn to get more donation and attention from the western countries. China is now opening their arms to Tibetans who wish to return to Tibet and Tibetans should treasure this opportunity because CTA will never be able to get them back to Tibet.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tenzin K on June 17, 2019, 07:18:41 PM
It's been 60 years long and Tibetans just had enough. They can't see their future and what worst is that it affect the second generation.Who can really keep staying like this. CTA didn't do anything for them and just keep using them to raise fund but nothing from the fund being transferred to benefit them. After 60 years CTA still depended on funding and can't be self-sustain. How long more people will go with their cause which is never ending?

The Tibetans will definitely look for alternative and make their own decision for their future because the older generation had wasted their but they would do something for their next generation. Tibetan leadership failed to show good example for their people, that's why no Tibetans will one to be part of the CTA. Further looking at the Indian government action that started to show no support to the Tibetan leadership is a sign that the host will no longer be at their side and situation will be from bad to worst for the Tibetan.

CTA may still not realise how critical the situation is, but for many Tibetans which still strong and able to think would rather try their luck and chance to explore other means for their future.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Drolma on June 19, 2019, 04:29:43 AM
60 years of being a refugee in India is enough for the Tibetans. There is no direction from the CTA what will happen next, the CTA is still doing what they were doing for the past 60 years for the Tibet cause, how are they going to be successful with their cause if they don't change their strategy. I guess this is also what the Tibetans have realised so they have completely lost their confidence in the CTA and decided to move on.

The normal Tibetans are the ones that suffer the most in the Tibet issue. Many of them escaped from Tibet with the Dalai Lama and they were very hopeful in returning to Tibet but this did not happen. They settled down in India but are without an identity. Their refugee status is being used by their own leadership to make money for themselves.

There is so much progress in Tibet and the lives of the Tibetans in China has improved tremendously. They have so much opportunity compared to the Tibetans in India. How can the Tibetans in India continue to trust the Tibetan leadership? The CTA has shown no result, they have disappointed all the Tibetans. The CTA has to admit they have failed miserably.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Alex on June 20, 2019, 01:20:27 AM
If I am a Tibetan in exile in India, I would have escaped to other countries a long long time ago. The situation in India is so bad that there is literally no hope for those Tibetans there. There are so many opportunities out there waiting for them and many Tibetans are leading successful lives in those countries.

Why are they choosing to stay in those Tibetan settlements when only failures, disappointments, and poverty awaits them? Tibetan government is clearly not going to be any better or improve. They are just going to degenerate to a point where they are useless and they are not doing anything for the people.

Lobsang Sangay is not a good leader and this is shown clearly in the result of him being the President of CTA for years. He achieved nothing other than more violence, discrimination and deaths in the Tibetan community in exile. Tibetans have to wake up and see the truth and not have blind faith in the CTA.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tenzin K on July 24, 2019, 04:50:48 AM
Tibetans are not rejecting Dalai Lama but disappointed. The longest 60 years the Tibetans stay with Dalai lama as refugees but what have they got? How CTA take care of their welfare? What improvement in term of lifestyle? Where is the good news for them to return back to Tibet?

Tibetan is living in there dark and losing hope. CTA will only go to them when CTA needs something. IF the Tibetan are well-taken care, no one will leave. Everyone will stay put and move along with Dalai Lama. Too bad CTA only look after themselves and neglect their own people. Once Tibetans are reducing in-exile then CTA will start to jump up and down because CTA will need the people in order to get funding.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Drolma on July 25, 2019, 07:08:34 AM
If I am a Tibetan in exile in India, I would have escaped to other countries a long long time ago. The situation in India is so bad that there is literally no hope for those Tibetans there. There are so many opportunities out there waiting for them and many Tibetans are leading successful lives in those countries.

Why are they choosing to stay in those Tibetan settlements when only failures, disappointments, and poverty awaits them? Tibetan government is clearly not going to be any better or improve. They are just going to degenerate to a point where they are useless and they are not doing anything for the people.

Lobsang Sangay is not a good leader and this is shown clearly in the result of him being the President of CTA for years. He achieved nothing other than more violence, discrimination and deaths in the Tibetan community in exile. Tibetans have to wake up and see the truth and not have blind faith in the CTA.

You are right, many Tibetans in India are finding their ways to leave India, no one wants to stay in India because there is no hope. CTA promises to bring Tibetans back to Tibet and free Tibet but until today, there is no result. Life in India as a refugee is not getting any better. Indians don't really like Tibetans.

Tibetans in Tibet are also not coming to India anymore. Opportunities in Tibet in terms of education and career are much better. There are many universities in China and Tibet for Tibetans to attend and they can also own a business if they want. In India, it is impossible to own a business if they are refugees.

CTA is very disappointing, they cannot be trusted. Tibetans see that the Dalai Lama is getting older and they have accepted the fact that Free Tibet Movement is a mission impossible. They have no choice but to leave. No one really wants to remain a refugee.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Alex on July 26, 2019, 05:14:27 AM
If I am a Tibetan in exile in India, I would have escaped to other countries a long long time ago. The situation in India is so bad that there is literally no hope for those Tibetans there. There are so many opportunities out there waiting for them and many Tibetans are leading successful lives in those countries.

Why are they choosing to stay in those Tibetan settlements when only failures, disappointments, and poverty awaits them? Tibetan government is clearly not going to be any better or improve. They are just going to degenerate to a point where they are useless and they are not doing anything for the people.

Lobsang Sangay is not a good leader and this is shown clearly in the result of him being the President of CTA for years. He achieved nothing other than more violence, discrimination and deaths in the Tibetan community in exile. Tibetans have to wake up and see the truth and not have blind faith in the CTA.

You are right, many Tibetans in India are finding their ways to leave India, no one wants to stay in India because there is no hope. CTA promises to bring Tibetans back to Tibet and free Tibet but until today, there is no result. Life in India as a refugee is not getting any better. Indians don't really like Tibetans.

Tibetans in Tibet are also not coming to India anymore. Opportunities in Tibet in terms of education and career are much better. There are many universities in China and Tibet for Tibetans to attend and they can also own a business if they want. In India, it is impossible to own a business if they are refugees.

CTA is very disappointing, they cannot be trusted. Tibetans see that the Dalai Lama is getting older and they have accepted the fact that Free Tibet Movement is a mission impossible. They have no choice but to leave. No one really wants to remain a refugee.

It is a good time for the Tibetans to free themselves for the years and years of oppression. CTA  had been oppressing them for so many years and they don't even know it. It is because of the faith of the Tibetans have for His Holiness the Dalai Lama is very strong.

Once His Holiness the Dalai Lama is not around anymore, I do not think the Tibetans will still follow CTA. The Tibetans will leave the CTA and migrate to other countries or join India as a Citizen. At that time, CTA will disappear on its own when there is no more Tibetans for them to rule over.

Tibet will never get its independence and China will not allow it. China invested so much into Tibet and it will be stupid for them to just give up Tibet like this.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: dsnowlion on September 17, 2019, 08:45:58 AM
Well, it looks like Indians are getting impatient with Tibetan refugees staying and sucking up their land and resources. The Adivasi Adhikar Manch (AAM) in India is voicing their unhappiness as Tibetan refugees are occupying their land, getting all the perks while original Indians are suffering, which they have every right to voice out their rights.

So after 60 years, you'd think the Tibetan/CTA knows how to "give back" to the Indian community and try to appease the locals, instead they are creating problems?

The AAM members do not want the Indian Gov to renew the Tibetan Settlement's lease and warned they would resort to agitation if they do.


Quote
Tribals in Odisha seek cancellation of Tibetan refugees’ land lease

DHARAMSHALA, Sept. 16: Adivasi Adhikar Manch (AAM) in Odisha is reportedly seeking the cancellation of state land lease to Phuntsokling Tibetan Settlement located in Gajapati district.

AAM members said the increasing number of Tibetan residents has created problems for the tribals residing in adjoining Jiranga and Labarsingh blocks in the district and warned that they would resort to agitation if the State Government renews the lease of Tibetan residents, according to New Indian Express report.

In 2012, Tibetans couldn’t cultivate fields after organized mobs of neighbouring tribal accused Tibetans of illegally encroaching land and hoisted a red flag in the field to assert their claim.

In response, Department of Home of the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) issued a statement on May 9, 2013, in which it said the settlement was established in 1963 on 2,250-acre land offered by Odisha government for resettlement of 2479 Tibetans with the land lease to be extended every 10 to 20 years.

“In between 1995 and 2008, there was a lapse of renewal of the land lease. Thereafter, the government allowed land lease renewal from 2008-2018, but local authorities could not release individual farmer’s Land Lease Patta (Govt. land lease document) due to constant pressure from a vested interest group.”

The statement said all farmers in the settlement were eventually granted temporary (2008-2018) Land lease Patta by May 2013, and added, “but the issuance of the Community and Reserve lands Patta of the settlement are currently being discussed with the local administration.”

According to CTA data, there has been an increase of 313 residents in the last 60 years in the agriculture-based settlement.

Source: [url]http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41767&article=Tribals+in+Odisha+seek+cancellation+of+Tibetan+refugees%e2%80%99+land+lease[/url] ([url]http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41767&article=Tribals+in+Odisha+seek+cancellation+of+Tibetan+refugees%e2%80%99+land+lease[/url])
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tracy on September 19, 2019, 07:41:15 AM
Well, it looks like Indians are getting impatient with Tibetan refugees staying and sucking up their land and resources. The Adivasi Adhikar Manch (AAM) in India is voicing their unhappiness as Tibetan refugees are occupying their land, getting all the perks while original Indians are suffering, which they have every right to voice out their rights.

So after 60 years, you'd think the Tibetan/CTA knows how to "give back" to the Indian community and try to appease the locals, instead they are creating problems?

The AAM members do not want the Indian Gov to renew the Tibetan Settlement's lease and warned they would resort to agitation if they do.


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Tribals in Odisha seek cancellation of Tibetan refugees’ land lease

DHARAMSHALA, Sept. 16: Adivasi Adhikar Manch (AAM) in Odisha is reportedly seeking the cancellation of state land lease to Phuntsokling Tibetan Settlement located in Gajapati district.

AAM members said the increasing number of Tibetan residents has created problems for the tribals residing in adjoining Jiranga and Labarsingh blocks in the district and warned that they would resort to agitation if the State Government renews the lease of Tibetan residents, according to New Indian Express report.

In 2012, Tibetans couldn’t cultivate fields after organized mobs of neighbouring tribal accused Tibetans of illegally encroaching land and hoisted a red flag in the field to assert their claim.

In response, Department of Home of the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) issued a statement on May 9, 2013, in which it said the settlement was established in 1963 on 2,250-acre land offered by Odisha government for resettlement of 2479 Tibetans with the land lease to be extended every 10 to 20 years.

“In between 1995 and 2008, there was a lapse of renewal of the land lease. Thereafter, the government allowed land lease renewal from 2008-2018, but local authorities could not release individual farmer’s Land Lease Patta (Govt. land lease document) due to constant pressure from a vested interest group.”

The statement said all farmers in the settlement were eventually granted temporary (2008-2018) Land lease Patta by May 2013, and added, “but the issuance of the Community and Reserve lands Patta of the settlement are currently being discussed with the local administration.”

According to CTA data, there has been an increase of 313 residents in the last 60 years in the agriculture-based settlement.

Source: [url]http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41767&article=Tribals+in+Odisha+seek+cancellation+of+Tibetan+refugees%e2%80%99+land+lease[/url] ([url]http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41767&article=Tribals+in+Odisha+seek+cancellation+of+Tibetan+refugees%e2%80%99+land+lease[/url])



2,250-acre of land is a big land area, if cultivated well, it can generate a lot of income. If the Tibetans are not going to do anything about the land, why lease it to them? The land belongs to Indians, rightfully they can have it back.

This is why Indians are getting annoyed with the Tibetans. The Tibetans are given so many privileges and perks but they abuse these benefits. Not only that, they expect Indian government to give more support and to give it indefinitely. But what did the Tibetans give back to the Indian government?

More and more Indians are voicing out their dissatisfaction with the CTA and the Tibetans. If Tibetans want to remain in India, they should work with the Indian government, stop creating troubles to them. Show people with actions not with words. But knowing how the CTA work, it is very unlikely the CTA is going to do anything to improve the situation.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: dsnowlion on October 03, 2019, 08:41:02 AM
 ;D ;D ;D LOL Guess Lobsang Sangay and CTA is desperate. They are trying hard to butter up India government with praises and cleaning up the Dharamsala streets on 150th birth anniversary of Mahatma Gandhi.

If Sangay and the CTA really believe in non-violence, then why did they called up the Tibetans to attack Ganden monks when they held their PEACEFUL protest against their injustice ban on Dorje Shugden? What a bunch hypocrites is all we see here. It's gonna take a lot more to impress India, especially the locals who are sick and tired of them milking their government while they suffer. 

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Gandhi and Buddha are India’s two greatest exports to the world: Sikyong on Gandhi Jayanti

Dharamshala: The Central Tibetan Administration today observed the 150th birth anniversary of Mahatma Gandhi, the Father of the Nation and symbol of nonviolent resistance for freedom and peace, with a flag hoisting ceremony at the Kashag.

To mark the ocassion, Central Tibetan Administration and its offices across India led by the Department of Health is observing the ‘Swachh Bharat Abhiyan: Mass movement against single-use plastic.’ This year the CTA’s Health department has announced special efforts towards banning single-use plastic in support of the GOI’s initiative to outlaw single-use plastic.

Speaking to media at the flag hoisting ceremony, the President Dr Lobsang Sangay said the CTA’s initiative towards cleanliness is a sincere token of tribute to the “Incredible India and the Great Mahatma Gandhi”.

“We observe this auspicious day to celebrate his messages of non-violence and peace. Mahatma Gandhi led nonviolently against British India and gained independence for India. This is an example for many conflict areas to seek their cause based on nonviolence. We can estimate around a hundred successful causes for rights, freedom, autonomy and independence based on nonviolence,” the President said.

Quoting the Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s recent address at the 74th session of the UN General Assembly, Sikyong said, “We [India] have exported Budh, not yudh [war].”

Sikyong added, “India’s two greatest exports to the world are Mahatma Gandhi and Buddha, both advocates of non-violence, peace and compassion.”

“Both Gandhi and Buddha are relevant to us and we see their manifestation in His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Hence for us, Gandhi is very special because nonviolence has succeeded in India and many other countries around the world.”

“If non-violence has succeeded for them, it will work for us as well,” said the Sikyong.

CTA’s Swacch Bharat cleanliness drive was flagged off by the Sikyong at a brief public event later at Gangchen Kyishong. Students of Mewon Petoen School presented a skit to drive awareness on environment conservation and anti-littering.

The Sikyong, in his remarks, hailed Swedish environmental activist Greta Thunberg’s efforts to highlight climate change and applauded her for starting a global movement for combating climate change.

The staff of the Central Tibetan Administration and Tibetan community turned out in large numbers and pledged for a cleaner, plastic-free India.

A daylong door-to-door cleanliness drive starting from Jogiwara-Gangkyi-Gamru-lower Dharamsala is underway to mark the 150th Gandhi Jayanti.

Last year as well, under the initiative of the Department of Health, CTA observed a mass cleanliness drive across India as a tribute to Gandhi and Swacch Bharat Abhiyan.

Source: https://tibet.net/gandhi-and-buddha-are-indias-two-greatest-exports-to-the-world-sikyong-on-gandhi-jayanti/
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tenzin K on October 04, 2019, 05:45:48 AM
This is what CTA should organize and it has to be more than this and be consistent after staying for free for 60 years. I believe if CTA has been contributing all these while the Indian citizens will not say much as they can see the Tibetan show their appreciation. CTA not only needs to continue to do such an event for India but also needs to do something for the Chinese in order to be in their good book. For CTA believing in non-violent is just big nonsense. Many people know how violent CTA can be and so many attacks on the Shugden practitioner were arranged by them.

;D ;D ;D LOL Guess Lobsang Sangay and CTA is desperate. They are trying hard to butter up India government with praises and cleaning up the Dharamsala streets on 150th birth anniversary of Mahatma Gandhi.

If Sangay and the CTA really believe in non-violence, then why did they called up the Tibetans to attack Ganden monks when they held their PEACEFUL protest against their injustice ban on Dorje Shugden? What a bunch hypocrites is all we see here. It's gonna take a lot more to impress India, especially the locals who are sick and tired of them milking their government while they suffer. 

Quote
Gandhi and Buddha are India’s two greatest exports to the world: Sikyong on Gandhi Jayanti

Dharamshala: The Central Tibetan Administration today observed the 150th birth anniversary of Mahatma Gandhi, the Father of the Nation and symbol of nonviolent resistance for freedom and peace, with a flag hoisting ceremony at the Kashag.

To mark the ocassion, Central Tibetan Administration and its offices across India led by the Department of Health is observing the ‘Swachh Bharat Abhiyan: Mass movement against single-use plastic.’ This year the CTA’s Health department has announced special efforts towards banning single-use plastic in support of the GOI’s initiative to outlaw single-use plastic.

Speaking to media at the flag hoisting ceremony, the President Dr Lobsang Sangay said the CTA’s initiative towards cleanliness is a sincere token of tribute to the “Incredible India and the Great Mahatma Gandhi”.

“We observe this auspicious day to celebrate his messages of non-violence and peace. Mahatma Gandhi led nonviolently against British India and gained independence for India. This is an example for many conflict areas to seek their cause based on nonviolence. We can estimate around a hundred successful causes for rights, freedom, autonomy and independence based on nonviolence,” the President said.

Quoting the Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s recent address at the 74th session of the UN General Assembly, Sikyong said, “We [India] have exported Budh, not yudh [war].”

Sikyong added, “India’s two greatest exports to the world are Mahatma Gandhi and Buddha, both advocates of non-violence, peace and compassion.”

“Both Gandhi and Buddha are relevant to us and we see their manifestation in His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Hence for us, Gandhi is very special because nonviolence has succeeded in India and many other countries around the world.”

“If non-violence has succeeded for them, it will work for us as well,” said the Sikyong.

CTA’s Swacch Bharat cleanliness drive was flagged off by the Sikyong at a brief public event later at Gangchen Kyishong. Students of Mewon Petoen School presented a skit to drive awareness on environment conservation and anti-littering.

The Sikyong, in his remarks, hailed Swedish environmental activist Greta Thunberg’s efforts to highlight climate change and applauded her for starting a global movement for combating climate change.

The staff of the Central Tibetan Administration and Tibetan community turned out in large numbers and pledged for a cleaner, plastic-free India.

A daylong door-to-door cleanliness drive starting from Jogiwara-Gangkyi-Gamru-lower Dharamsala is underway to mark the 150th Gandhi Jayanti.

Last year as well, under the initiative of the Department of Health, CTA observed a mass cleanliness drive across India as a tribute to Gandhi and Swacch Bharat Abhiyan.

Source: https://tibet.net/gandhi-and-buddha-are-indias-two-greatest-exports-to-the-world-sikyong-on-gandhi-jayanti/
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Drolma on October 04, 2019, 08:02:06 AM
Let's be real, who wants to be a refugee for the whole life? A refugee cannot move around, they cannot buy properties, they cannot own a business, they just cannot live freely like the rest of the people. The very old Tibetans might want to remain a refugee like the Dalai Lama but not the younger generations.

The young Tibetans have lost so much opportunity in life due to their refugee status. Compared to the Tibetans in Tibet, the Tibetans in India are missing a lot in their lives. Many Tibetans in Tibet are successful in the sector they have chosen to work in. For examples, there are many talented movie directors, actors and actresses, singers in Tibet.

That is no wonder many young Tibetans are also returning to Tibet seeing there are so many opportunities in Tibet. But I think not wanting to remain a refugee does not mean Tibetans don't respect the Dalai Lama. It just time have changed, Tibetans have accepted that free Tibet is a mission impossible. Life has to go on.
Title: Re: Why are Tibetans in India rejecting Dalai Lama's example to remain a refugee?
Post by: Tracy on November 16, 2019, 09:26:12 AM
The Tibetans were very hopeful in the beginning when they first arrive in India, they believe the Dalai Lama and the CTA would bring them back to Tibet. Many Tibetans believe living in India is only temporarily. 60 years have past, people around the world have progressed, things got better for people in general but the Tibetans are still refugees. Being a refugee, Tibetans cannot move around freely, they cannot buy properties or assets, they are very restricted in many ways. Everyone wants to have freedom, 60 years of waiting is enough for the Tibetans, I am not surprised many of them don't want to remain as refugees anymore.