dorjeshugden.com

About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Harold Musetescu on December 08, 2016, 08:20:54 PM

Title: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on December 08, 2016, 08:20:54 PM
Is there a formal practice for the dharmapala "Methar". He is found under Dorje Shugden in the retinue of Kache Marpo. Tsem Tulku has do an article on him which you can read about his website.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on December 09, 2016, 12:56:57 AM
There is also another "Methar" related article on Tsem Tulku's website. You have to go to page 2 and look under the article starting with the title "The Spirit Nyatrul".

It is sad that in Tsem Tulku's article he "forgot" to thank the "Tengyeling Oracle" for so much of the information he provided him about "Methar". We did notice that he thanked his staff for their work but not the Tengyeling Oracle who brought Methar, Nyari Tulku, Demo Tulku and Tengyeling Monastery to his  and the world's attention.

If you go to the comments section in the article on "The spirit Nyatrul" please read ALL the comments addressed under Harold Musetescu. If you scroll to the very bottom you will see Pastor Elena asking me and the Tengyeling Oracle to write the story about Methar.

I through the Tengyeling Oracle provided Tsem Tulku with the "Peaceful" mantra for Methar (Om Methar sarva siddhi hung". You can read it in the Methar article. The "Wrathful" mantra is "Om Methar  shatroo maraya phet". The Tengyeling Oracle provided the "Wrathful" visualization of Methar to Tsem Tulku. This is Methar skinned alive from the neck down with a spear and a mala of human skulls. Tsem Tulku's staff provided thangka reproductions of both the peaceful and wrathful forms of Methar. You will not find this "wrathful" description of Methar in an Tibetan book, it came from the Oracle.

It was the Tengyeling Oracle that told Tsem Tulku that Methar carried a mala of "Human Skulls". There was no previous documentation of this skull mala in an other Tibetan literature.

I should tell you that the Tengyeling Oracle "Channels" Methar. He does not take "Trance" as most Oracles do. Tsem Tulku talks about the difference in his youtube video titles "Taking Trances". The Oracle also channels Kache Marpo and Namkar Barzin.

It was the Tengyeling Oracle who "first" told Tsem Tulku and the world that H.H. Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku and Methar were all innocent and were falsely convicted and murdered for crimes they did not commit. All the published Tibet books about Demo Tulku stated that he and Nyari Tulku were evil men who attempted to MURDER the 13th Dalai Lama. Now Tsem Tulku believes what the Tengyeling Oracle has be stating publicly for years. It was the Tengyeling Oracle and only the Tengyeling Oracle to was telling the world the truth. A truth that Tsem Tulku not only believes but he his now telling the world. It is Tsem Tulku who publicly stated what the peaceful mantra of Methar is. It was Tsem Tulku who publicly stated what the wrathful visualization of Methar is. Were did he get all this information  from??? THE TENGYELING ORACLE!!!!!

It was the Tengyeling Oracle who stated publicly the real reason why Methar was skinned alive by the Tibetan government's troops. It was the Tengyeling Oracle who stated to the world the guru devotion, dharmapala devotion and Oracle devotion Methar had to Demo Tulku, Kache Marpo and the Tengyeling Oracle. No one else every spoke these words to the world.

It was the Tengyeling Oracle who in a private email to Tsem Tulku told him why Serkong Tulku believed that Nyari Tulku was an innocent man. He told Tsem Rinpoche that Serkong realized that Nyari Tulku (Nyatrul) could have blinded him in one eye with the ember from fire but chose only to burn his nose to stop the fire puja.

Nyari Tulku first tried to stop the fire puja by causing it to rain. When that failed he burned Serkong Rinpoche's nose with a burning ember that stopped the fire puja. Had Nyatrul wanted to he could have directed the burning ember into on of the eyes of Serkong Rinpoche blinding him for life. He chose not to to show Serkong he was not a violent evil man.

So now you can see how important the Tengyeling Oracle has been in exposing the truth about Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku and Methar. It was the Oracle who for years has fought a lonely battle to bring to the world Dorje Shugden's dharmapala "Methar". Methar who was forgotten by the world and it was only through this Oracle that we can now have Methar as our new dharma protector.

The Tengyeling Oracle is an old man and his health is not well. His doctor has him on medication and told him that he is at "High Risk" of either a heart attack or a stroke.

It is truly sad that His Eminence Tsem Tulku would turn his back to this great Oracle. In his telling of the stories of Methar, Nyari Tulku and His Holiness Demo Tulku he is in fact telling the story given to him by the Tengyeling Oracle.

Would have a few simple words of thanks been to much Tsem?

The world needs to know about the "Tengyeling Oracle" so that he is not forgotten as Methar, Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku and Tengyeling Monastery were once forgotten. It is through the singular efforts of the Tengyeling Oracle that they now will never be forgotten.

Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: vajratruth on December 09, 2016, 08:36:24 AM
Dear Harold,

Methar is indeed a very good story. I went to Tsem Tulku's blog to read and it was well set out and a lot of details.

But you seem to have a bone to pick with TT. Are you the Tengyeling Oracle or how are you related to the oracle? You seem to infer that you know him personally. I have not heard of this oracle although that does not mean he does not exist.

It is strange that you keep going on about TT not thanking this oracle and somehow I don't think an oracle of a great being would so fussed about receiving credit for information. This is especially so if the information supposedly benefits many people. Isn't merit from spreading the knowledge of this great being more important than petty acknowledgement/credit that you seem to be demanding?

I am also wondering why, if you know so much about the Tengyeling Oracle, that you have not done anything about it, not told anyone about it and not write anything to spread any teachings from its lineage? Why wait till TT wrote something and then insist that the Tangyeling Oracle/you(?) should be credited? Did the Tengyeling ask you to do this?

Sorry if I sound rude and I mean no disrespect but I do find it strange that you seem to want credit for a Dharma material. I have seen the Duldzin take trace and teach with great wisdom but  never demanded to be credited.

Perhaps this is not the right profile to discredit a noble DS lama? Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: thaimonk on December 09, 2016, 08:53:09 AM
@Harold Musetescu,

I have many friends in the Serpom Monasteries who are monks and senior. No one has ever heard of a Tengye Ling or Methar oracle or channeler of this deity. They even have friends in Canada that are older Tibetans and monks and they said no such oracle exists and if there is one, he is dead. So prove there is this oracle before you make allegations. What does he look like, where does he live, when does he take trance? If you have no proof such an oracle exists and it's just your word, sorry, but I don't believe you.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: tibetanindelhi on December 09, 2016, 09:32:43 AM
In the Tibetan tradition there is no big issues on copyright. Genuine teachers and oracles do not care if you give them credit or not. They are just  happy their information is benefit others. Further, the so called Tengye ling oracle never ask for credit. You are asking for credit and the information didn't arise from you. You don't get credit as the information didn't come from you as source. If a thousands persons listen to oracle words in the audience and tell a thousand other persons, you don't need to give credit to one thousands persons for sharing the information from the oracle.

If the Tengyleling oracle really want credit, let him ask for it himself with correct proof he is what he is. No Tibtan heard of him. He does not exist.

Long Live Trijang Chogtril Rinpoche!
Long Live Dhagom Chogtril Rinpoche
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: tibetanindelhi on December 09, 2016, 09:43:08 AM
I wouldn't never give credit/copyright creidt to you because you have no proof your information came from an oracle that you cannot proof. Because you have no proof your oracle is real, then to quote or give credit from him is dangerous. It will look like it is made up. Why give credit to a oracle there is no proof it exist? People will say it was made up and the oracle is a lie.

 You cannot proof Kyabje Tsem Rinpoche got his informaton on Methar from you or only from you. He has access to may Tibetan texts, lamas, Geshes and monks in the Tibetan communities around the world and in Tibet. Even if he got information from you, he gave information on Methar and it help others and that is good enough.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on December 09, 2016, 10:54:02 AM
You may claim that neither you or some monks you know has never heard of the Tengyeling Oracle. So what, Tsem Tulku and his pastors have heard of him. Tsem Tulku has quoted extensively from the Tengyeling Oracle proclamations. In the comment sections on the article on Nyatrul many of Tsem Tulku's "Pastors" wrote questions to me asking about my teacher the Tengyeling Oracle. Numerous readers also asked questions about the Oracle and his bona fides.

It is in fact the tradition in Tibet to properly quote the "source" of your teachings. Your Lama would always say that these teachings came from this Lama on this date at this place on this date. If Tsem Tulku had received all this information from say the Panglung Kuten we all know he would have told the world that it came from the Panglung Kuten. He would not have claimed it came from his "staff" as he did about his "Methar" article.

If you go to the main or home page on this website and scroll down to the section that allows comments from the general public you will see that I have written about the Tengyeling Oracle and his proclamations for years. 

Whether you believe the Tengyeling Oracle is real or not is not the issue here. His Eminence Tsem Tulku believes he is real. His Eminence Tsem Tulku has "quoted" from his proclamations.

If Tsem Tulku thinks the Tengyeling Oracle is false then why does he publicly teach the "Oracle's" peaceful mantra of Methar? Why does he publicly teach the "Oracle's" wrathful visualization of Methar? Why has he created a thangka of the "Oracle's" wrathful visualization of Methar. These are not the actions one would do if you though the Tengyeling Oracle was a fake.

There is no question that in fact Tsem Tulku knows the Tengyeling Oracle is a true Oracle. He does and the proof is in his publishing and teaching to this students and the world the proclamations of this Oracle.

If you are quoting from a source, if you are teaching from a source which is other than yourself then you MUST NAME THE SOURCE.

Tsem Tulku thanked his "staff" for all their work on the Methar article.

How about thanking the "Tengyeling Oracle" for all his work on "your" Methar article.

Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: tibetanindelhi on December 09, 2016, 01:01:38 PM
Prove it that Kyabje Tsem Rinpoche used the non existent Tengye Ling's proclamations for all this and if he did, so what? You want rupees? 

Prove it that this oracle even exists before we go further. If this oracle cannot be proven to exist, then it's all just a waste of time.  :o
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: tibetanindelhi on December 09, 2016, 01:02:54 PM

Dear Thaimonk, Very good issues you point us for peolpe. Thank you.

 :)

@Harold Musetescu,

I have many friends in the Serpom Monasteries who are monks and senior. No one has ever heard of a Tengye Ling or Methar oracle or channeler of this deity. They even have friends in Canada that are older Tibetans and monks and they said no such oracle exists and if there is one, he is dead. So prove there is this oracle before you make allegations. What does he look like, where does he live, when does he take trance? If you have no proof such an oracle exists and it's just your word, sorry, but I don't believe you.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on December 09, 2016, 05:11:51 PM
For any of the readers who want to check out the Tengyeling Oracle here something I encourage all of you to do. Please contact Pastor Elena Khong Jean Ai who is the "Director of Tsem Tulku's Ladrang". She is the head of his "Private Office" and you can contact her at [email protected].

Pastor Elena was the author of the story titled "The Spirit Nyatrul" and if you scroll down to the very last comment you will see what she wrote to me.

"Hi Harold.....It has been brought to Rinpoche's attention you know some things about Tengyeling and Methar.....It seems like you have a lot of information. Would you like to help us get a blog post up about Tengyeling, Methar and what happened in you own words and we will be glad to publish it.....".

To "tibetanindelhi and Thaimonk". You may question the existence of the "Tengyeling Oracle" but many of the things that Tsem Tulku publicly teaches about "Methar" come from the Tengyeling Oracle. Whether you or any one else does question his existence is irrelevant. Tsem Tulku does.

A warning to "tibetanindelhi" about you statement about the Tengyeling Oracle. ".....if he does, so what? You wants some rupees.....". When you insult an "Oracle" you are insulting the dharmapalas who speak through him. You have insulted not only the Tengyeling Oracle but also Methar. I hope you pray to Methar to forgive you for insulting the man he speaks throught to the world. The man he chose to tell the world about Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku and Tengyeling Monastery. The Tengyeling Oracle does not care about you insulting his motives but he fears that Methar may not be so forgiving.

So readers please feel free to email Pastor Elena and ask her about the true of what I have written about Tsem Tulku and the Tengyeling Oracle

Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: vajratruth on December 09, 2016, 05:34:37 PM

A warning to "tibetanindelhi" about you statement about the Tengyeling Oracle. ".....if he does, so what? You wants some rupees.....". When you insult an "Oracle" you are insulting the dharmapalas who speak through him. You have insulted not only the Tengyeling Oracle but also Methar. I hope you pray to Methar to forgive you for insulting the man he speaks throught to the world. The man he chose to tell the world about Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku and Tengyeling Monastery. The Tengyeling Oracle does not care about you insulting his motives but he fears that Methar may not be so forgiving.


Dear Harold,

I respect that you have your opinion and what you wrote is certainly within your right.

HOWEVER, it does NOT reflect Methar well to portray him as a vengeful spirit who "may not be so forgiving". That implies Methar will harm when in fact he has been subdued by the Serkong Dorjechang by means of teaching him the Dharma. Such a being who can be subdued by Dharma would have strong compassion. And to suggest that Methar may still be vindictive and hostile is to say the Serkong Dorjechang failed to subdue Methar properly.

Isn't Methar sworn to protect the Dharma and not his ego?

Having said all that, neither is it correct to state that just because one has not heard of a certain oracle doesn't mean he does not exist.

The issue here is to keep and open mind.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on December 09, 2016, 05:47:24 PM
Hello Vajratruth.

Thank you for your comments.

In regards to the wrathful nature of "Methar" I suggest you read what Tsem Tulku wrote about Methar. In his writing about his wrathful manifestation Rinpoche publicly stated ".........He also uses the mala to count the heads of those evil beings he has slain....".

Maybe you are right about what you stated to me that Methar does not "slain" and His Eminence Tsem Tulku is wrong.

Tsem Tulku and I have our opinions on Methar wrathful nature and you are entitled to yours.

The issue here is to keep an open mind.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: tibetanindelhi on December 09, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
I prefer to trust Kyabje Tsem Rinpoche who very works tirelessly and puts his reputation and life on line for THE DORJE SHUGDEN LINEAGE. Kyabje Tsem Rinpoche life, his background, monastery, history and lineage is clear for all to see. You, nobody know who you are and no one see, hear or know about your Tengyle ling oracle. No proof. You should be grateful Methar is known and Tsem Rinpoche is kind to talk about it. He never take credit for himself and he simply teach about Methar. You rejoice already. Credit or no credit is not important. Don't focus on small issues. If Tengye ling oracle want credit, let him say so himself and reveal himself.
If he want credit so much, I lost trust in a non-existant oracle.




Hello Vajratruth.

Thank you for your comments.

In regards to the wrathful nature of "Methar" I suggest you read what Tsem Tulku wrote about Methar. In his writing about his wrathful manifestation Rinpoche publicly stated ".........He also uses the mala to count the heads of those evil beings he has slain....".

Maybe you are right about what you stated to me that Methar does not "slain" and His Eminence Tsem Tulku is wrong.

Tsem Tulku and I have our opinions on Methar wrathful nature and you are entitled to yours.

The issue here is to keep an open mind.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on December 13, 2016, 07:17:22 PM
The Tengyeling Oracle can now be reached at "[email protected]".

Merry Christmas to all.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: SabS on December 15, 2016, 06:23:32 PM
I have read the article on "Methar of Tengyeling Monastery" on tsemrinpoche.com. It was a very moving story of how human greed and lust for power could wreck so much sufferings on others. It was especially painful how Methar was tortured and murdered. And yet with strong Dharma imprints he was able to let go of his vengeful anger to be a Protector of the Dharma under Dorje Shugden's entourage.

It was such a beautiful article of how Dharma conquers anger and yet I don't understand what is the purpose of Harold Musetescu's demands for aknowledgement or thank you from Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. Being a real Dharma practitioner, the Tengyeling Oracle would have been just happy that the truth of Methar's status is shared with the world and Harold if he did play his part in this article, then should be humbly happy. Why take away the blessings of something good by making a fuss to fulfill the ego of recognition? Harold, if you did contribute on behalf of the Tengyeling Oracle, I do thank both of you but don't create such discord when you should be happy in knowing good was created. Humbleness is our practice and although I don't have the merits yet, to receive the precious practice of tantra, ego is not a qualification.

If you are concern for the health or condition of Tengyeling Oracle whom you say is your Guru, then as a student you should appeal to your Dharma brothers and sisters or the Dharma community. Putting down another High Lama is not the way to get your appeal across. My apologies if I said wrong but your giving an email address is not much of a verification. Maybe if you could provide more information like his name and his background that others can check for authencity, it would be helpful.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: vajratruth on December 16, 2016, 01:57:54 PM
Hello Vajratruth.

Thank you for your comments.

In regards to the wrathful nature of "Methar" I suggest you read what Tsem Tulku wrote about Methar. In his writing about his wrathful manifestation Rinpoche publicly stated ".........He also uses the mala to count the heads of those evil beings he has slain....".

Maybe you are right about what you stated to me that Methar does not "slain" and His Eminence Tsem Tulku is wrong.

Tsem Tulku and I have our opinions on Methar wrathful nature and you are entitled to yours.

The issue here is to keep an open mind.

Dear Harold,

I have removed your latest comment because this site is meant for good and healthy discussions, not as a platform to disparage holy Gurus.

Please refrain.

Thank you
VT
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on December 16, 2016, 05:10:02 PM
I guess i "Rattled that Cage" to much.

 8)
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on December 17, 2016, 02:12:35 AM
I wish to tell the readers here about what your "Dharmapala" can do to protect you, your teacher and the teachings. This comes from a "Secret" teaching from H.E. Shenpen Dawa Rinpoche givien by him on September 1988. He was a son of H. H. Dudjom Rinpoche of the Nyingma Sect. This teaching can be found on this very website under the title, "A teaching on Nyingma Protector Shenpa". It was posted here on the dorjeshugen.com website on September 06, 2010.

You can read the whole article since it is all about dhamapalas and and how they protect those that follow them.

Scroll down and read from "Let me tell you another story about Dharmapalas" to "The dharmapalas have the RIGHT TO TAKE THE LIFE FORCE AWAY".

It is what His Holiness Dudjom Rinpoche's "Dharmapala" did to "Three brothers" that assaulted him for not repaying a loan. The Dharmapala cut off the head of the first brother, had the second brother stab himself to dead and the three brother was thrown from his horse and died." The "Dharmapala" then sought out to KILL all the remaining family members. H.H.Dudjom Rinpoche then begged the family to ask forgiveness from the "Dharmapala" for if not they would all die.

This story was told to H.E. Shenpen Dawa Rinpoche by his father H.H. Dudjom Rinpoche.

Please read H.E. Shenpen Dawa Rinpoche's teaching so that you can understand the "Inner" and "Secret" teachings about "Dharmapalas". Most vajrayana students have only received the "Outer" teachings and are totally unaware of these teachings. So when someone states that "Wrathful Dharmapalas" do not engage in acts of violence (the Rite of Liberation) to protect their followers, dharma teachers or the Dharma itself, those people are totally WRONG.

I hope you find this article as educational as I have.

Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on December 30, 2016, 12:24:17 PM
Why did the dharmapala "Methar" pick the Tengyeling Kuten and not the Panglung Kuten or the Gameng Kuten to publicly tell his story?

We all know the greatness of the Panglung Kuten and the Gameng Kuten. But not the greatness of the Tengyeling Kuten.

Had Methar chosen the Panglung or the Gameng Kuten then the world would have immediately accepted what they would have said about him while under trance.

Has Methar taken trance of any Oracle other than the Tengyeling Oracle and if yes then WHOM?

Why then did Methar not chose the Panglung or the Gameng Kuten to announce himself to the world? Why pick an unknown Kuten to tell his story and also the TRUE story of H.H. Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku, their murders and the destruction of Tengyeling Monastery?

Why did the Tengyeling Oracle chose Tsem Tulku to tell HIS story of Methar, H.H. Demo Tulku and Nyari Tulku and Tengyeling Monastery.

WHY????

Please have a HAPPY NEW YEAR.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on February 21, 2017, 04:01:11 PM
I wish all of you  to know that I am in fact the Tengyeling Oracle.

I will no longer pretend it is someone else.

If you wish to reach me my email is "[email protected]".

Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Erstvollzug on February 21, 2017, 04:42:36 PM
Prove it.

I wish all of you  to know that I am in fact the Tengyeling Oracle.

I will no longer pretend it is someone else.

If you wish to reach me my email is "[email protected]".
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: PrajNa on February 22, 2017, 03:46:50 AM
Quote
Why did the dharmapala "Methar" pick the Tengyeling Kuten and not the Panglung Kuten or the Gameng Kuten to publicly tell his story?

We all know the greatness of the Panglung Kuten and the Gameng Kuten. But not the greatness of the Tengyeling Kuten.

Why then did Methar not chose the Panglung or the Gameng Kuten to announce himself to the world? Why pick an unknown Kuten to tell his story and also the TRUE story of H.H. Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku, their murders and the destruction of Tengyeling Monastery?


Perhaps it is a chance for you (whether or not you are the 'oracle') to strengthen your Dharma connection with the lineage, for you to develop stronger faith, and to do something about your faith that benefit others and not just yourself. There is no need to know the greatness of an oracle, real oracles do not see themselves as special because they are just vessels. It is more important to share with others the greatness of the beings they channel.

A lay person can be an oracle, as long as he or she is a clean vessel. I read some of the threads recently and saw that you said the Tengyeling Oracle 'channels' and not take trance. I do not know much about this, but I think official oracles must be able to take trance, not just channels.

The Panglung Kuten and Gameng Kuten have a lot of responsibilities to promote and preserve the lineage, promoting one of the entourages of Kache Marpo may not be as important a focus to them as lifting the ban of Dorje Shugden? The ban is not officially lifted as of today, Dorje Shugden practitioners around the world continue to suffer discrimination, separation, being accused as Chinese agents (Reuters even stoop so low and got involve in sensationalism to publish such an article) and death threats.

With the recent issue of the NKT letter about Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche that may cause disharmony and divide among Dorje Shugden practitioners, and the ban that is yet to be lifted, why focus on yourself and your 'questions'? Truly, what will the Tengyeling Oracle do to help the lineage at this point of time I wonder?

I would like to please request you to not use the name Tengyeling Oracle as you are not officially recognised at the moment, even if you did channel Methar. Please respect the oracle institution. Oracles like Panglung and Gameng Kuten had undergone much strict training for years and prepared themselves for the official roles, which they took on with huge commitment and responsibilities.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: ShugdenProtector on February 22, 2017, 05:14:56 AM
I wish all of you  to know that I am in fact the Tengyeling Oracle.

I will no longer pretend it is someone else.

If you wish to reach me my email is "[email protected]".

I'm sorry Mr. Harold Musetescu but what you just did and how you did it is not befitting of a so called Dharma protector chosen oracle which you claim you are. I'm sorry for my ignorance but real oracles are usually either trained by, or blessed by and recognised by a highly attained Guru? That is what I have read. They are all trained/recognised by some/their Guru.

How did you manage to think you are and confirm you are the Tengyeling oracle  since all the great masters you quoted in your writings are not alive now and no specific master/Guru in this life confirmed you? Not even the Kyabje Tsem Tulku, who you mentioned spread about Methar's story, recognise or say you are? No offence but surely if you are who you are he would know and you would not need to spell it out here on your own right?

I'm sorry but it's very hard to believe and accept and maybe you will say it does not matter what I think, because you know who you are and that's all that matters. Well, if it is so, then why they great need to mention it at all? Actually if you truly are and got the proper seal and recognition, you would be able to benefit so many people and in that way many would rejoice because like the Panglung oracles, they would continue to selflessly benefit others, humbly.

I'm not very deep in dharma, but if I'm not wrong, it is less credible, especially in the Gelugpa tradition for someone to make claim of who and how special they are because everything about Gelug lineage is about humility. Thank you for you interesting thoughts. 
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on February 23, 2017, 04:38:26 AM
I posted this on Tsem Tulku's article about "Methar of Tengyeling Monastary".

Harold Musetescu on Feb 23, 2017 at 12:08 pm

Hello Tsem Tulku

You missed out one part of the story of Tengyeling Monastery and that was how the Tengyeling Oracle died.

As you have stated it was the then Tengyeling Oracle who told the monks in 1910 to stand up with the Chinese troops and fight against the Government of Tibet.

He went into trance and Kache (Tsiu) Marpo told the monks to fight and avenge the cruel murder of their guru, His Holiness Demo Tulku.

The monks stood shoulder to shoulder with their Chinese cousins against the cruel Tibetan Government.

The Tengyeling Oracle lay down his monks vows so he could actually fight and kill these evil troops.

His devotion to His Holiness Demo Tulku was go great. It was H.H. Demo Tulku who chose and personally trained him to become the Oracle of Tengyeling Monastery.

The Oracle also fought because of his devotion and faith to “Kache (Tsiu) Marpo”. It was Kache (Tsiu) Marpo who was Demo Tulku’s personal dharmapala.
He was also the Dharmapala of Tengyeling Monastery.

During the final battle the Tengyeling Oracle was wounded and captured.

He was at the top of the list of wanted men that the Government sought.

It was he and he alone as the Oracle of Tengyeling who convinced the monks and lay people to stand and fight against the Dalai Lama’s Government.

These evil troops had one special punishment for the Oracle.

This special punishment was ordered by the Tibetan Government.

They asked him if he had any last WORDS to say before they “CUT OFF HIS TONGUE”.

The Oracle last words were to praised both Demo Tulku and Kache (Tsiu) Marpo and to curse all of them and promised to return to seek his revenge.

They then cut out his tongue and tortured him and finally “SKINNED HIM ALIVE” as they had done to both Methar and years earlier to Nyari Tulku.

Like Methar the Tengyeling Oracle died because of his total devotion to Demo Tulku and Kache (Tsiu) Marpo.

Unlike Methar he did not become a Demon but retook birth in the “Human Realm” to seek his revenge in the future.

So Rinpoche you now have the complete story of the Tengyeling Oracle.

A story as great as the murdered Tengyeling Oracle’s dharma brother “Methar”.

ps  The monks of Tengyeling Monastery during the war gave the Oracle a special name.

The monks called "Gesar Kuten" the "Warrior Oracle".


Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Matibhadra on February 23, 2017, 05:30:09 PM
Thank you Harold for the interesting, compelling, and perhaps highly elucidating story.

As Giordano Bruno (himself burned at the stake by Tibetan-like Catholic ecclesial politicians about the same time as Tulku Drakpa Gyalsten was murdered by orders of the evil “5th” dalie lame), as Giordano Bruno said, “se non è vero, è ben trovato” (“even if not true, it makes a lot of sense”).

Your contribution to this website is highly appreciated.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: ShugdenProtector on February 24, 2017, 10:36:12 AM
Quote
Unlike Methar he did not become a Demon but retook birth in the “Human Realm” to seek his revenge in the future.

I did not know that Dharma Protector seek revenge? I thought from what we learned from Dharma that only spirits seek revenge?

Also why does Methar need so much attention since he is an entourage of King Dharmapala Dorje Shugden? I mean no offence, but I do not hear Kache Marpo oracle writing everywhere seeking acknowledgement for his existence.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on February 24, 2017, 08:00:58 PM
My work as the Tengyeling Oracle appears to be finished.

One hundred and five years ago I was murdered and today I have completed my revenge.

The truth of Tengyeling Monastery, His Holiness Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku, Methar and myself are now known to the followers of Dorje Shugden.

I wish to thank H.E. Tsem Tulku for all his wonderful work in this matter.

Without you Rinpoche none of this would have be possible.

The Dalai Lama and his government can no longer lie and say Demo Tulku and Nyari Tulku were evil criminals.

The Dalai Lama and his government can no longer lie and say the monks and lay people of Tengyeling Monastery were evil pro Chinese traitors.

As Tsem Tulku wrote, "This is a story of political intrigue, unholy plots against innocent men and murder".

The truth is now know about the brave monks and lay followers who fought and died for Demo Tulku and their beloved Tengyeling Monastery.

They showed their total faith and devotion in their Lama, their Dharmapala and their Lama's Oracle.

You have the dharmapala "Methar" to pray to once again.

I have told you via "Kache Marpo" that there will be two 15th Dalai Lamas.

The Tibetan 15th Dalai Lama will be in reincarnation of Drakpa Gyeltsen who was the rightful 5th Dalai Lama.

That's right the 5th Dalai Lama should have be Drakpa Gyeltsen but his "Throne" was stole from him.

The Tibetan 15th Dalai Lama will have Dorje Shugden as the new State Protector.

The Tibetan 15th Dalai Lama will have Dorje Shugden as the new State Oracle.

The Tibetan 15th Dalai Lama along side H.H. the Panchen Lama will spread the teachings of Dorje Shugden through out Tibet, Mongolia and China.

I have told you via "Kache Marpo" to make Dorje Shugden a "Yidam".

Then all you followers of Dorje Shugden can embrace him as your Guru, Yidam and Dharmapala.

I have via "Kache Marpo" exposed the 14th Dalai Lama's "Official"  Oracles for what they were.

FAKE ORACLES.

This is my "Revenge" against those who "Murdered" all of us at Tengyeling Monastery.

The 14th Dalai Lama's  spies will read this and see the future I have fore told  for the 14th Dalai Lama and his government.

My "Revenge" was not done with violence but as an "Oracle", with the words of an "Oracle".

"Words" used to destroy the lies of the Dalai Lama and his CTA.

I am the "Oracle" of Tengyeling Monastery and only for Tengyeling and no one else.

I returned to finish the vow I had made at the moment of my murder 105 years ago.

On behalf of all of us from Tengyeling Monastery we wish all the followers of Dorje Shugden a full and blessed life.

Finally please pray that His Holiness Demo Tulku presents himself quickly to the world.

I know were he resides.

A young man who is full in the study of Vajrayana Buddhism.

I have told him who he real is but at this time he has his doubts about me.

I am an old man who in his last lifetime had his tongue cut out for being a so called "False Oracle".

A punishment fit for an "Oracle".

In this lifetime my tongue has been cut out symbolic manner for being a so called "False Oracle".

A punishment fit for an "Oracle"?

Good bye.






Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on February 25, 2017, 07:42:45 PM
I wish to make an announcement about Pastor David Lai.

He is a Pastor and a member of the Ladrang of His Eminence Tsem Tulku.

Pastor David Lai is the reincarnation of His Holiness Demo Tulku.

Both Pastor David Lai and His Eminence Tsem Tulku were advised of this by me.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: pemachen on February 25, 2017, 11:24:30 PM
My work as the Tengyeling Oracle appears to be finished.

One hundred and five years ago I was murdered and today I have completed my revenge.

The truth of Tengyeling Monastery, His Holiness Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku, Methar and myself are now known to the followers of Dorje Shugden.

I wish to thank H.E. Tsem Tulku for all his wonderful work in this matter.

Without you Rinpoche none of this would have be possible.

The Dalai Lama and his government can no longer lie and say Demo Tulku and Nyari Tulku were evil criminals.

The Dalai Lama and his government can no longer lie and say the monks and lay people of Tengyeling Monastery were evil pro Chinese traitors.

As Tsem Tulku wrote, "This is a story of political intrigue, unholy plots against innocent men and murder".

The truth is now know about the brave monks and lay followers who fought and died for Demo Tulku and their beloved Tengyeling Monastery.

They showed their total faith and devotion in their Lama, their Dharmapala and their Lama's Oracle.


Thank you for sharing the information you had on Tengyeling Monastery, His Holiness Demo Tulku, Nyari Tulku, Methar.  So much crime and injustice had been done towards the great teachers, and even now the ban on Dorje Shugden is still not lifted.

For all the Lamas and practitioners of Dorje Shugden around the world, I plead you to please keep talking and telling the world about the Dorje Shugden. Many old monks continue to suffer in the monastery and will die being labelled 'criminals' and 'traitors' still if the ban is not lifted. Many older monks are separated from their younger disciples because of the ban and left to fend for themselves in their old age. This is a clear indication that CTA doesn't care about the welfare of Tibetans - these are their assets, the old monks and Geshes who spent their life studying, teaching, contributing to the Tibetan society as a whole.  The Tibetan leadership of the present may not be able to carry out flaying, but what they do is equally harmful, destroying the lineage and practice which the lineage masters have passed down from one generation to another.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on February 25, 2017, 11:38:52 PM
Why did the 13th Dalai Lama destroy Tengyeling Monastery.

He had recognized his "Nephew" as the new 10th Demo Tulku.

Tengyelling Monastery was destroyed in 1912 when the false Demo Tulku was only 11years old.

Why destroy Tengyeling and deprive his "Nephew" of this "Palace" when he had nothing to do with the war at Tengyeling Monastery.

The monks of Tengyeling Monastery refused to believe this 10th "Nephew" Demo Tulku was the true incarnation of their beloved Demo Tulku.

There was one other person who believed what the monks of Tengyeling believed.

That was the 13th Dalai Lama.

He knew the small boy he had chosen to be Demo Tulku was a total fake.

How could the 9th Demo Tulku try to murder him and the 10th Demo Tulku be his sweet "Nephew".

That is why the 13th Dalai Lama gave the orders to destroy Tengyeling Monastery

The monastery and his "Nephew" meant nothing to him, absolutely nothing.

Did the 13th Dalai Lama every attempt to rebuild his "Nephew's" monastery.

NEVER!!!

The true 10th Demo Tulku is Pastor David Lai from Tsem Tulku's Labrang and not the fake 10th "Nephew" Demo Tulku.

Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Big Uncle on February 27, 2017, 01:45:16 PM
I wish to make an announcement about Pastor David Lai.

He is a Pastor and a member of the Ladrang of His Eminence Tsem Tulku.

Pastor David Lai is the reincarnation of His Holiness Demo Tulku.

Both Pastor David Lai and His Eminence Tsem Tulku were advised of this by me.

You gotta be kidding! Who is he? Who is he recognized by? On what basis is he recognized? Please, not another self-proclaimed tulku - Nga Lama thingy.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Erstvollzug on February 28, 2017, 03:11:55 AM
Appropriate email name for this 'oracle'.

The Tengyeling Oracle can now be reached at "[email protected]".

Merry Christmas to all.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Erstvollzug on February 28, 2017, 03:47:55 AM
I wish to make an announcement. I am the new Gadong oracle. No more hiding. The protector speaks through me.

I wish to make an announcement about Pastor David Lai.

He is a Pastor and a member of the Ladrang of His Eminence Tsem Tulku.

Pastor David Lai is the reincarnation of Tsechokling Rinpoche of Lhasa.

Both Pastor David Lai and His Eminence Tsem Tulku were advised of this by me.

His Eminence Tsem Tulku better listen to me as I have written to him and I know better.




I wish to make an announcement about Pastor David Lai.

He is a Pastor and a member of the Ladrang of His Eminence Tsem Tulku.

Pastor David Lai is the reincarnation of His Holiness Demo Tulku.

Both Pastor David Lai and His Eminence Tsem Tulku were advised of this by me.
Title: Re: The dharmapala "Methar"
Post by: Harold Musetescu on April 07, 2017, 05:32:22 PM
The Tengyeling Oracle was tortured and executed by the 13th Dalai Lama's Government in 1912.

What was going through the mind of the Oracle as he was executed and entering the Bardo?

He must have suffered greatly.

It was because of him that Tengyeling Monastery was destroyed in 1912.

It was because of him that a great many monks and lay followers of Demo Tulku died in the war of Tengyleing Monastery from 1910 through 1912.

It was because of him that a great many monks and lay followers were wounded during that war.

It was because of him that many monks and lay followers including the Dharmapala Methar were captured and tortured to death at the end of the war in 1912.

It was because of him that many monks and lay followers were captured, tortured and later released from prison by the 13 Dalai Lama's Government.

It was because of him that the remaining monks and lay followers were expelled from Tengyeling and forced to enter into other Gelug Monasteries.

The Tengyeling Oracle was present in the same prison and watched as Methar and the Oracle's fellow monks and lay followers were tortured.

The Tengyeling Oracle knew that all this happened because of him and him alone.

The monks and lay followers fought, died, were wounded and tortured all because they believed in him as the Tengyeling Oracle.

This all happened because the Tengyeling Oracle took trance of Tsiu (Kache) Marpo who told them in trance to stand and fight with the Chinese Garrison in Lhasa against the 13th Dalai Lama and his government.

To avenge the murder of their beloved guru Demo Tulku.

Their "Oracular" devotion was so great because of their "Guru" Devotion to Demo Tulku.

It was Demo Tulku who personally chose and trained the Tengyeling Oracle.

I wonder if the Tengyeling Oracle entered his Bardo with great sorrow and sadness for what he and he alone caused at Tengyeling Monastery?