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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Namdrol on September 20, 2016, 11:15:53 AM
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What do you guys think of this latest statement by Dalai Lama? Does it mean the ban has ended???!!!
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Dalai Lama said in France in September 2016:
“I hear that some people report that I have said no one should do the practice of Dolgyal. That is not what I say. There are problems with the practice, which I know from my own experience, and that’s why I recommend people not to do it. But if someone wants to do it, they can. There are monks today in monasteries adjacent to Ganden and Sera who specifically follow the practice.
“What I do say is that Dolgyal broke his bond with the 5th Dalai Lama and has been controversial ever since. I’ve encouraged people not to do the practice, but I haven’t said that no one can do it.”
Excerpt from: http://www.dalailama.com/news/post/1457-avalokiteshvara-empowerment-and-public-talk (http://www.dalailama.com/news/post/1457-avalokiteshvara-empowerment-and-public-talk)
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I highly doubt so. Although there is a video of H.H. Dalai Lama saying this, but you can see that shortly after this message was released, there was still discrimination going on.
One of such example was the video of Penpa Tsering saying that Tibetans should unite together and go against the Dorje Shugden practitioners to get rid of them.
If Penpa Tsering is able to say this as the representative of CTA in America, then what kind of message is CTA sending. He did not get into any trouble at all. It just does not make any sense at all for the CTA to be allowing things like that from happening.
They are going against what H.H. Dalai Lama is teaching us and yet, the CTA allows this to happen. They are not doing anything because of them covering for themselves. Look at who is biased now!
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“What I do say is that Dolgyal broke his bond with the 5th Dalai Lama and has been controversial ever since. I’ve encouraged people not to do the practice, but I haven’t said that no one can do it.”
What is this bond that "Dolgyal" broke?
Pretty wishy-washy stuff in my opinion.
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Is that for real?
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The Dalai Lama has always maintained there is no ban when speaking to the west. But, in monasteries and when speaking to Tibetans, he has been pretty harsh with his stance on not practicing Dorje Shugden and calling for expulsion of monks. This is tantamount to a ban.
And, here he says “What I do say is that Dolgyal broke his bond with the 5th Dalai Lama and has been controversial ever since. I’ve encouraged people not to do the practice, but I haven’t said that no one can do it.”
What bond is the Dalai Lama talking about? How was it broken? The how, when, what and where has not been answered or mentioned here. So, is it an excuse or what?
Don't think I can trust this particular report.
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Hmm still unpredictable as ever. The other time the Dalai Lama said Dorje Shugden doesn't harm his life nor the Tibetan Freedom cause and used the term "Gyalpo"...King. Now he reverts back to "Dolgyal"? Maybe after years of using the term "Dolgyal" he is still getting use to using the term "Gyalpo"? Certainly hope that is the case as the Dalai Lama is softening his stance on the practice of Dorje Shugden. May the day come swiftly when the Dalai Lama's message that Dorje Shugden can be practiced passed on to his CTA officials. However, I could see the CTA officials hanging on for longer as they will be fearful of their authority and position being usurped by their competitors if everything becomes equalised by the Shugden practitioners, as well as the memories the practitioners have of CTA's prosecutions. So now I guess this is the in-between time where either CTA toe the line or they attempt to break from the Dalai Lama. Either way they will not have much support as without the Dalai Lama, they have no sponsorship to maintain their extravagance or vote buying ability. Check-mate?!!
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He is a politician, what can you expect?...
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There were many statements of these effect from His Holiness Dalai Lama which amounted to the conclusion that he did not put a ban on Dorje Shugden practice. I pray that the instructions would also go the the CTA and the Tibetan leadership to stop the discrimination against Shugden practitioners under their rule. Please stop inciting hatred amongst Tibetans due to their choice of religion. Yes, Tibetans should unite together and work towards living in a harmonious and peaceful community.
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I guess this is considered a a good start. At least the oppression towards Dorje Shugden is not that strong. There is some leeway for Dorje Shugden practitioners as the enforced ban is not that strong. i really hope that this is the beginning to the end for the ban where the people will slowly accept our practice.
But what I think is the most important is that the CTA spreads this message and follow what H.H. Dalai Lama has said. To not cause any more segregation between the Dorje Shugden practitioners and non-Dorje Shugden practitioners.
Recently Tsem Rinpoche posted an article saying that H.H. Dalai Lama say that we can now practice Dorje Shugden. I believe this is some great news, even with the video of H.H. Dalai Lama saying that is more powerful.
The link of the article: http://www.tsemrinpoche.com/?p=109777 (http://www.tsemrinpoche.com/?p=109777)
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OK. I take back what I said earlier. Though the 14th Dalai Lama did not expand on the broken bond between Dorje Shugden and the 5th Dalai Lama, I can relate to the other parts of his speech.
He did say that Dorje Shugden cannot harm after so many years of harping that Dorje Shugden harms his life and the Tibetan cause. So, if he can step down so much, I can concede a little and say, thank you. After all, politician or not, he is seen as Chenrezig, a Bodhisattva who embodies the Compassion of the Buddhas. If he can be harmed by Dorje Shugden, then the Dalai Lama is not Chenrezig.
Further, he did say that anyone can practice Dorje Shugden. Love that he mentioned where the Dorje Shugden monasteries are.
So, thank you, I’ll take whatever slack given and continue my practice. My grouse is with the fanatical followers of the Dalai Lama who cannot wrap their little head around this little concept that the Dalai Lama is Chenrezig and cannot be harmed. Guess, they’ve grown up on this dose of anti-Shugden that it’s habituation already. The CTA also needs time to pry their greasy fingers off the Tibetan government in exile’s coffers. So, in the meantime, we’ll have to chant “Dalai Lama said Dorje Shugden cannot harm him, Dalai Lama said Dorje Shugden cannot harm him”.
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The Dalai Lama's recent statement on Dorje Shugden, particularly where Dorje Shugden doesnt harm him really is a positive turn of events in the long battle of lifting the Dorje Shugden ban.
Unfortunately, judging from the actions of CTA and those who are anti-Shugden, it would take more from Dalai Lama before the effects of the ban can be reversed. Take for example, Penpa Tsering (CTA’s representative in USA) shortly after such advice from the Dalai Lama’s message, actually went on record (youtube video) to rally Tibetans to unite together and get rid of Dorje Shugden practitioners.
Then again it shouldn’t be surprising since CTA appears to always operate serving their own interests rather than the interests of Tibetans. With them “enjoying” the donations which have been flowing in unaccounted for all these years, why would CTA do the right thing for a change? In fact, CTA can be said to be incentivised to perpetuate the refugee status.
Why else would CTA be taking actions thus far which primarily serve to frustrate their negotiations with China? Even at the 56th Anniversary of Tibetan Democracy Day, CTA can’t help but to signal out China and accusing them of orchestrating planned demonstrations against the Dalai Lama, clearly meant to provoke animosity. And this is despite CTA’s claims of working for Tibetan cause negotiating with China? Doesn’t take a genius to figure out that such action would not be looked upon favourably by China nor would it be considered as good faith.
Perhaps CTA has come to realise that their time is so foreseeably limited that they will just milk the situation as much as they can before they inevitably “run their course”. After all, there are even main stream reports of India and China on their own accord having agreed arrangements for Tibetans once the Dalai Lama is no longer around which primarily spell doom for CTA.
That being said, all these really just mean is that we just have to continue on spreading awareness and doing our part to bring down ban peacefully. Except that now, we have been handed some pretty strong rebuttals by the Dalai Lama. So, we just need to focus on that and respectfully use that as means to counter anti Shugden people accordingly in playing our part towards the removal of the illogical Dorje Shugden ban.
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I think this news is absolutely great! The Dalai Lama says that he cannot be harmed and this is a complete turnaround in his stance of the ban. The sufferings of Dorje Shugden practitioners are long overdue and I hope that the discrimination, abuses, segregation, threats, harm towards Dorje Shugden practitioners will cease soon.
May this be the start of uniting all Buddhists in the world especially the Tibetans.
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The Dalai Lama said that he never directly said that no one could practice Dorje Shugden. But based on what he did I really doubt what he said. The Dalai Lama was the one who encouraged monks who practiced Dorje Shugden to be expelled from from the monasteries. So even if he never directly said that no one can practice Dorje Shugden, his actions said otherwise.
I really hope that both Shugdenners and non Shugdenners will reunite peacefully without any bloodshed.
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This is definitely positive. I dunno if you guys realize the implications that the Dalai Lama has made when he said you can practice Dorje Shugden and that it doesn't harm him. When you combine both statements, it takes aways the basis for the ban itself. That is how powerful these 2 statements are. Who cares about the Dalai Lama's usage of the Dolgyal name.
I think all of us have to realize how landmark this is and this is probably a sign of the weakening of the ban and the turning point at which the ban comes down eventually. All we have to do is to go along with what the Dalai Lama has said. We can practice and that's all that matters. So, there should not be any vulgarities and criticism against Shugden practitioners from the followers of the Dalai Lama because we are merely following his instructions now. How exciting!
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We can call for all the followers of the Dalai Lama to be courteous and exemplify their Guru, the Dalai Lam. That they should not be vulgar, crude or violent against Dorje Shugden practitioners. But, the final count is still up to them.
So, while i'm waiting, I won't be holding my breath. Let's see if they are real spiritual aspirants and followers of the Dalai Lama, who is the emanation of Chenrezig and the embodiment of compassion and tolerance.
May there be peace and harmony among all practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism.
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If you ask me, this latest statement from the Dalai Lama marks a very important event in Buddist History. It marks the first instance the Dalai Lama has been open with practicing Dorje Shugden. I am sure that this event will contribute to the official lifting of the ban in the future as well as now I am sure that more people will be practicing Dorje Shugden after this statement. I wish for more things like this in the future.
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This is the turning point of the Dorje Shudgen ban.
A first step. Yes the discrimination on Dorje Shugden is not over yet, but this has to be most positive news to ever come out from then Dalai Lama.
Lets see what develop after this. Feeling hopeful.
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Even when Dalai Lama says no more ban, we still have to see how the CTA will react. They are like a precursor to the followers accepting the situation. Even now, the followers are still denying what the Dalai Lama said i.e. everyone can practice Dorje Shugden and that Dorje Shugden cannot harm him. Even though the Dalai Lama has mentioned monasteries that practices Dorje Shugden and their location, the followers are still saying cannot practice.
So, are these people denying the Dalai Lama? Will they listen to the Dalai Lama come the time?
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Even when Dalai Lama says no more ban, we still have to see how the CTA will react. They are like a precursor to the followers accepting the situation. Even now, the followers are still denying what the Dalai Lama said i.e. everyone can practice Dorje Shugden and that Dorje Shugden cannot harm him. Even though the Dalai Lama has mentioned monasteries that practices Dorje Shugden and their location, the followers are still saying cannot practice.
So, are these people denying the Dalai Lama? Will they listen to the Dalai Lama come the time?
I really don't get it why would the Dalai lama people/followers/fanatics all keep denying what the Dalai Lama says, even though they can hear it clearly? Why is it they are so into disunity? Why would they not want PEACE and Harmony again?
Do they not realise if Tibetans are united, they would have more people on their side to voice out their issues and cause to the world? I mean don't tell me CTA is paying all of them to "hate" and what do they get out of it really? Is this where all funds from all the FUND RAISING FREE TIBET goes towards?
Strange sill lot. Why support CTA when you know they will non-existence after HH the Dalai passes... let's face it CTA, your time is running out so better make peace with your own people!!!
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The latest statement from the Dalai Lama is a very good turning point in the history of Buddhism and the Dorje Shugden ban. Although the ban is not officially lifted yet, this is a very welcome change in events in regards to the ban. H.H The Dalai Lama saying that he cannot be harmed by anyone also means that Dorje Shugden too cannot harm him and this should put to rest the statements put out by Anti Shugden people who claim that Dorje Shugden is harming the Dalai Lama.
Despite this, the fight to lift the ban is not over yet. Ever since the Dalai Lama said that he cannot be harmed by anyone and that people were free to practice and worship Dorje Shugden, the CTA have not officially issued a statement to say that people were free to practice Dorje Shugden. It is going to take more than the words of the Dalai Lama to lift this ban but we should not take this negatively, this recent speech by the H.H The Dalai Lama is a good boost towards finally lifting the ban for good.
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Despite this, the fight to lift the ban is not over yet. Ever since the Dalai Lama said that he cannot be harmed by anyone and that people were free to practice and worship Dorje Shugden, the CTA have not officially issued a statement to say that people were free to practice Dorje Shugden. It is going to take more than the words of the Dalai Lama to lift this ban but we should not take this negatively, this recent speech by the H.H The Dalai Lama is a good boost towards finally lifting the ban for good.
Agree that ban is far from over as many have yet to recognise the religious freedom of Dorje Shugden practitioners. To date, the discrimination is still very real in Dharamsala as not only CTA did not retract the official position, CTA are still instigating hate. In addition, the online abuses are still as rampant too despite the Dalai Lama’s latest clarification (that Dorje Shugden does not harm him).
It is as if those haters don’t realise that by continuing to claim that Dorje Shugden is against Dalai Lama and Tibetan cause they are in fact contradicting Dalai Lama. The main justification given by CTA for stating that worshiping Dorje Shugden tantamount to being against Dalai Lama was that Dorje Shugden harms Dalai Lama by shortening his life and since Dalai Lama is at that time was spearheading the Tibetan cause, any harm to him would harm Tibetan cause too. So, now that Dalai Lama has clarified that Dorje Shugden doesn’t harm him, why are the haters still harping on it?
So, either these anti-Shugden people are totally ignorant or they have hidden agenda. Either way, it does not reflect well on them. In any event, the latest clarification from Dalai Lama serves as pretty strong rebuttals or means to counter anti-Shugden people. It is definitely useful in efforts towards the removal of the illogical Dorje Shugden ban.
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The ban never made sense. The CTA is using it to their advantage for their personal gains.
But some of the followers of the Dalai Lama is seeing it purely the other side of the fence and seeing a different picture. My prayers go to them but then again who am I to judge who is right or wrong as there are no right or wrong, it's a matter of which perspective you're looking at.
The face of the sufferings of the Dorje Shugden practitioners is different from different sides. The secular samsaric view is that these sufferings are needless and wrong. Who knows maybe these sufferings of these people are purification of their heavy karma.
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This is good news! Although I can still see many who believe there is 'no ban' are still discriminating Shugden followers. What I do hope is that HHDL continue to talk about this and educate more proHHDL followers. Now, what steps will CTA make to continue encouraging all the hatred and discrimination especially since HHDL made the comments? Instead of creating more schisms, chaos and hatred, they should be working hand in hand with HHDL to promote unity and peace. They make Buddhism look really bad with all their unruly tactics.
HHDL, please, lets all just stand together to promote what Buddhism really mean. Whatever one choose to practice, is entirely up to the individual so long as all they do is promote love, kindness and compassion.
Lets stop all the hatred, segregation and discrimination...