dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: mountains on April 28, 2009, 06:32:42 PM
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The latest news I have recieved is not very long but quite impactual on many levels from very reliable sources.
The Abbots of Sera Je, Sera Mey, Gaden Jangtse, Gaden Shartse, Drepung Gomang and Drepung Loseling
were summoned to Dharamsala by Prime Minister of Exile Tibetan Govt Professor Samdong Rinpoche very recently.
Samdong Rinpoche scolded the Abbots for PUSHING THE SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN OF ALL MONKS TO RENOUNCE SHUGDEN IN THREE GREAT SEATS OF SERA, GADEN AND DREPUNG!!!
He said that their insistence on the signature campaigns has made personal difficulties for H.H. the Dalai Lama.
(I would presume the court case and also the bad media regarding it religious rights)
The ironic fact is that HH himself pushed for it through the Abbots. We can see the videos of HH praising the monasteries who has expelled the monks who wish to continue the practice and encourages more of it.
So perhaps this is a sign that the ban by HH is starting to have a negative effect on his reputation?
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Looks like they are trying to wriggle their way out off the mess the DL has got them in, maybe to show a good side to the court, blaming the Three Colleges :-[
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I agree with Mohani that Dalai Lama is trying to wriggle out of the mess by blaming the Abbots so he looks better with the lawyers and internationally.
But that would be not good for Dalai Lama in the long run, because there are many recorded public tapes of him even on youtube encouraging the Colleges to expell and remove all monks from the mainstream monasteries who refuse to sign. Hence Shar Gaden and Serpom Monasteries arose.
So now that Dalai Lama is using Samdong Rinpoche to scold Abbots, at least THERE IS A SCOLDING RE THE SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN. Which in the past Dalai Lama and Samdong Rinpoche were praising the signature campaign.
Either way, Dalai Lama and Samdong Rinpoche created contradictions. That contradiction will start to fester and grow in people's minds.
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Does anyone have any other news regarding this at all.
Thanks Mountains for posting.
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Are we just to believe this or is there some evidence for is ? Transcript/audio/video ??
VL
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How amazing. I was looking through the older posts, and found this!
Back in 2009, this forum post was discussing about how "Samdong Rinpoche scolded the Abbots for PUSHING THE SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN OF ALL MONKS TO RENOUNCE SHUGDEN IN THREE GREAT SEATS OF SERA, GADEN AND DREPUNG!!!"
So, in 2009 - there were already existing contradicting actions from Samdong Rinpoche. Prior to 2009, HHDL and Samdong Rinpoche were praises the campaign! So was this scolding a side action from Samdong Rinpoche telling the abbots not to sign the campaign?
In 2011, we now know that the Kalon Tripa Samdong Rinpoche did not do the work for himself or anyone else (inferring subtlely to the Dalai Lama), and that he worked for the Tibetan Govt, for the Dalai Lama and for the Tibetan people in order to FULFILL THE COMMAND OF HIS ROOT GURU H.H. KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE. (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1302.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1302.0))
Now in 2012, HHDL has started to soften his enforcement on the DS ban.
The plot continues to develop...
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There are obviously better ways of finding out who are the Shugden practitioners and who are not than to force the monks to break their vows just to stay in the monastery and be politically correct. I do not believe that the Dalai Lama ever endorsed the swearing method for finding out and segregating them. The method that gave birth to Shar Ganden was through voting and not swearing, why would they want to go the extra mile to prove their allegiance to the Dalai Lama?
Pabongkha Rinpoche once famously said that monks should not get involved in politics…but what are these abbots doing defying Pabongkha Rinpoche's advice and even causing the sangha to break their refuge vows…all for the sake of being politically correct. On the other hand, one can imagine the amount of pressure they are in to actually do such a thing, given to them by the government officials.
Such rifts indicate that the CTA is aware that people are watching and they are trying to cover it up, but with failure. It could also indicate that Samdhong Rinpoche is carrying the Dalai Lama's will and preserving the Dharma at the same time. It does appear to be a huge challenge but Samdhong Rinpoche seems to be able to pull it off without much interference from the fanatics.
The current turn of events, with the Dalai Lama appearing to ease up about the ban is rather encouraging as the ban seems to be degenerating the Dharma further amongst the Gelugpas instead of upholding it. Eventually, the Dalai Lama will have to lift the ban as more and more evidence of it being bad surfaces.
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Jess you forgot to point out that its been recently mentioned (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=80.msg20215#msg20215 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=80.msg20215#msg20215)) that Samdhong Rinpoche is known to be an emanation of Dorje Shugden. How ironic that the Dalai Lama surrounds himself with emanations of the very deity hes put a ban on... Ngari Rinpoche and Samdhong Rinpoche.
So he pushes the ban then he leaves off. Then he pushes the ban again, then leaves off again. A case of guilt? Two minds? Showing us the hypocrisy of the ban? Whats going on???
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Another interesting thing about Samdhong Rinpoche to note is that even after the revelation/confession that he is an emanation of Dorje Shugden, HHDL still keeps him close in Namgyal. Naturally, if HHDL hates Dorje Shugden so much, he would have sent him far away or strip off his titles. But why not and instead appoint Samdhong Rinpoche as an envoy?
I don't really see what he is doing as two minds. It is his duty as a monk to remind the abbots that their actions are wrong or overboard and unnecessary. If Samdhong Rinpoche is serving the Dalai Lama out of Guru devotion to Trijang Rinpoche, I think it is needless to say that he is still a DS practitioner although he does not make a big deal out of it due to the nature of his position.
It is a very clear and subtle indication that HHDL is never against Dorje Shugden but the whole thing is more or less a facade for something more. Again if we are too attached to results and only to things that we can see as opposed to looking at things from a deeper point of view, we fall into traps and are easily swindled. So in the case of HHDL, why would an enlightened being manifest so many flaws? Unless he has a message beneath.
If in Buddhist teachings we do not take things on a surface level and we are told to read between the lines, so what about high lamas? do we take them for granted and follow like sheep?
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Thanks for resurrecting this thread. The inconsistencies of the words and actions of the Tibetan authorities (including the Dalai Lama and Samdhong Rinpoche) are astonishing. I recall the recent expulsion of Gyume Kensur Rinpoche (Gongpo Khamtsen Geshe Chatee) from Gaden Jangtze Monastery. All because the Dalai Lama had mentioned to the Abbots that Gyume Kensur Rinpoche (GKR) doesn't come to see him anymore nor attend his teachings. (see
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1089.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1089.0)). In any case, swearing that they do not practice Dorje Shugden is supposed to be against the vinaya (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1781.msg23992#msg23992 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1781.msg23992#msg23992))
I am sure that whatever Samdhong Rinpoche said then – in 2009 – it was with the blessings of the Dalai Lama. How can Samdhong Rinpoche, as Kalon Tripa then, say anything to contradict the Dalai Lama? His tenure as Kalon Tripa would have been extremely short! Even now, Samdhong Rinpoche is still kept very close to the Dalai Lama and conveys messages from the Dalai Lama on official business. And this was after Samdhong Rinpoche had openly declared his loyalty to HH Trijang Rinpoche. (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1302.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1302.0))
It’s like an enormous jigsaw puzzle where we may not be able to see the big picture yet but slowly but surely – the pieces are being put into place.
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Thanks for resurrecting this thread. The inconsistencies of the words and actions of the Tibetan authorities (including the Dalai Lama and Samdhong Rinpoche) are astonishing. I recall the recent expulsion of Gyume Kensur Rinpoche (Gongpo Khamtsen Geshe Chatee) from Gaden Jangtze Monastery. All because the Dalai Lama had mentioned to the Abbots that Gyume Kensur Rinpoche (GKR) doesn't come to see him anymore nor attend his teachings. (see
[url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1089.0[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1089.0[/url])). In any case, swearing that they do not practice Dorje Shugden is supposed to be against the vinaya ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1781.msg23992#msg23992[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1781.msg23992#msg23992[/url]))
Well I find these contradictions by HH very strange and interesting. If HH was a Western leader, he would probably be sacked or voted out. I was reading an article by TK in this post http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=598.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=598.0)
Whatever HH said in 1978 in that article and what HH say now contradict. Therefore, whatever HH is doing, I do trust him even though it is confusing and I believe at this point, you know HH has a BIGGER picture. There are so many articles and stories about Shugden & HH since 1992. If you put this issues together, it can be a monthly tabloid magazine. Very interesting and definitely makes me want to know more.
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If HHDL says that it is wrong to practice Dorje Shugden, would it be okay to break the rest of the vows just to follow what the Dalai Lama says? Would it be okay to break the gelong vows in the name of the Dalai Lama? Apparently to these people, yes, it is worth it. I think they should be scolded by Samdhong Rinpoche for forcing monks to swear, which is against the gelong vows, by the way.
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Samdong Rinpoche scolded the Abbots for PUSHING THE SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN OF ALL MONKS TO RENOUNCE SHUGDEN IN THREE GREAT SEATS OF SERA, GADEN AND DREPUNG!!!
He said that their insistence on the signature campaigns has made personal difficulties for H.H. the Dalai Lama.
(I would presume the court case and also the bad media regarding it religious rights)
The ironic fact is that HH himself pushed for it through the Abbots. We can see the videos of HH praising the monasteries who has expelled the monks who wish to continue the practice and encourages more of it.
So perhaps this is a sign that the ban by HH is starting to have a negative effect on his reputation?[/b]
Thanks for high lighting this post back... I actually did not notice this post earlier and I am totally tickled by the fact that Samdhong Rinpoche actually scolded the Abbots when the very person who requested for this was HHDL. I guess now we can see that all that highlighting and postings on YouTube, Social medias etc of the ridiculous ban is creating much discomfort to HHDL. This is exactly the results we wish to hear, showing that the efforts we've put in to continue publicising the issue of the ban does work LOL.
Now that Samdhong Rinpoche has confessed why He did what He did which is because of the instruction of His Lama.... HH Trijang Rinpoche... the illusory story begins to slowly unveil it self.
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Samdong Rinpoche scolded the Abbots for PUSHING THE SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN OF ALL MONKS TO RENOUNCE SHUGDEN IN THREE GREAT SEATS OF SERA, GADEN AND DREPUNG!!!
He said that their insistence on the signature campaigns has made personal difficulties for H.H. the Dalai Lama.
(I would presume the court case and also the bad media regarding it religious rights)
The ironic fact is that HH himself pushed for it through the Abbots. We can see the videos of HH praising the monasteries who has expelled the monks who wish to continue the practice and encourages more of it.
So perhaps this is a sign that the ban by HH is starting to have a negative effect on his reputation?[/b]
Thanks for high lighting this post back... I actually did not notice this post earlier and I am totally tickled by the fact that Samdhong Rinpoche actually scolded the Abbots when the very person who requested for this was HHDL. I guess now we can see that all that highlighting and postings on YouTube, Social medias etc of the ridiculous ban is creating much discomfort to HHDL. This is exactly the results we wish to hear, showing that the efforts we've put in to continue publicising the issue of the ban does work LOL.
Now that Samdhong Rinpoche has confessed why He did what He did which is because of the instruction of His Lama.... HH Trijang Rinpoche... the illusory story begins to slowly unveil it self.
If you really wanna think about the whole thing, sometimes our Gurus would challenge us to do something that is clearly wrong and if we actually do it, we will disappoint our Guru. If HHDL requested and Samdong Rinpoche scolded them, it clearly means that whatever actions that they are doing is wrong and that they should have chosen the correct decision which is not to make the monks break their monks' vows.
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Are we just to believe this or is there some evidence for is ? Transcript/audio/video ??
VL
I agree with Vajralight on this. Are there some evidence for this claim? Where did Mountain get this information from? Or at least there are some logic reason for this? Or may be Mountain has something up his sleeves? :)
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Are we just to believe this or is there some evidence for is ? Transcript/audio/video ??
VL
I agree with Vajralight on this. Are there some evidence for this claim? Where did Mountain get this information from? Or at least there are some logic reason for this? Or may be Mountain has something up his sleeves? :)
I dont know, I tend to trust mountains' view on these things as he always seems to have inside stories and he always gives insider info on the condition of what is really going on in Dharamsala as opposed to what the western media wants us to believe. I mean, most of us here are westerners and we do not really know what's going on. based on Mountains' credibility in the past, I am very inclined to believe Mountains. Also, Samdhong Rinpoche has now come out as a Dorje Shugden practitioner so I do believe that he had scolded the abbots as what they are doing is wrong and out of wanting to get on the Dalai Lama's good side rather than the right thing.
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The contradictions and inconsistencies by CTA has been consistent from the very beginning until today.
This news in this post was in 2009 and today the same contradictions are still reoccurring. Therefore the Ban is not based on facts but rather the twisting of historical facts to suit the fancy of CTA to support the ban.
Can you therefore believe that such an administration will gain success in freeing Tibet. Can such an administration can actually govern an independent Tibet?