dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Big Uncle on November 09, 2013, 01:47:42 PM
-
HI guys,
Just thought I share these rare and precious photos of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche performing some sort of Dorje Shugden ritual I think. He seemed to holding implements that look like those that Dorje Shugden holds. I got these online through a friend. Anybody can tell what ritual is this?
-
Thank you so much for all these precious photos Big Uncle.
It is funny how the previous Zong Rinpoche did not manage to swear out as he has passed away before the ban. But since Zong Rinpoche has already reincarnated, it would definitely mean that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit. For a very simple reason, if he really is, high lamas like Zong Rinpoche that practices Dorje Shugden strongly before they pass away would definitely not incarnate and be with us again.
-
This brings to mind that imprints or karma seeds are likened to a person's hands who was stained by garlic, you can wash your hands but the smell of the garlic remains still.
If one practices dark arts or demon worship how can anyone come back and take a higher rebirth? Let alone such a powerful Dorje Shugden practitioner like Zong Lama.
If doing negative things does not bring us to the lower relams, then we can simply ignore the Small and some parts of the Medium Scope of the lamrim the teachings there can be ignored as it is simply not true! The current Zong Lama probably chose to be on the other side of the ban for certain all to be revealed soon enough :)
-
Thank you so much for all these precious photos Big Uncle.
It is funny how the previous Zong Rinpoche did not manage to swear out as he has passed away before the ban. But since Zong Rinpoche has already reincarnated, it would definitely mean that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit. For a very simple reason, if he really is, high lamas like Zong Rinpoche that practices Dorje Shugden strongly before they pass away would definitely not incarnate and be with us again.
Can't agree more with you Rinchen. There are few points which i would like to share which against what Dalai Lama have said:
1) By practicing Dorje Shugden it will shorten His life.
Here's the thing, Dorje Shugden practice exists for the past 352 years since the 5th Dalai Lama, and i believed a lot of High Lamas, monks and lay people have been practicing this until 1986 when the 14th Dalai Lama openly criticized Dorje Shugden saying Dorje Shugden is not an enlighten being and by practicing him will shorten his life. But isn't him the Buddha? How can an evil spirit can shortens a Buddha's life.
2) Dorje Shugden is not an enlighten being.
But what about Nechung? (No disrespect) but I believed Nechung is officially Dalai Lama's advisor and Nechung is not an enlighten being. Why is the Dalai Lama consulting Nechung? Doesn't make sense?
3) Whoever practice Dorje Shugden will go to hell.
Look at those High Lamas who had been practicing Dorje Shugden in all their life time have been reincarnate and get even bigger (status). Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche for example.
All the above points is just my personal thoughts.
-
It is such a privilege, honor and meritorious to see images of highly attained master's yet alone of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche. Kyabje's meditation is very deep and intense as shown in the pictures here. The posture is upright, the ritual implements and hand mudra seem so coordinated and fluid. How beautiful! Thank you, Big Uncle.
-
Rinpoche was in his eightieth year when he died. During his teachings at Thubten Dhargyey Ling in Los Angeles in December 1983, he recalled a meeting with His Holiness the Dalai Lama the same year, seventeen years ago, that he had been requested by him to become principal in Varanasi.
‘We received news that it was a difficult year for His Holiness. I was appointed to represent the monks of the three monasteries and the four schools, to go to Dharamsala to request His Holiness to live long.
‘When I arrived in Dharamsala, it was New Year. “I won’t die,” His Holiness said to me. “I am glad you came by.” He took my beard and shook it and said to me, “just sit here and relax.”
-
What lovely and serene pictures of Kyabe Song Rinpoche! Thank you for sharing, it is such gem and a blessing to lay eyes on photos of such lamas who have lived their life holding vows, teaching, serving, being a true sangha benefiting others. By laying eyes on their photos, may it create imprints of us practitioners to attain their qualities and be just like them in the future.
Even at his age, Song Rinpoche looks so alert, quick, sharp, so alive and totally at peace in his meditations.
-
Thank you for sharing such precious photos of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche. It is a blessings to able to see him. Each guru has their own disciples which passed down the lineage one generation to another and to lay people today. Without them the pure lineage teachings wouldn't be able to survive for so long.
-
Can't agree more with you Rinchen. There are few points which i would like to share which against what Dalai Lama have said:
1) By practicing Dorje Shugden it will shorten His life.
Here's the thing, Dorje Shugden practice exists for the past 352 years since the 5th Dalai Lama, and i believed a lot of High Lamas, monks and lay people have been practicing this until 1986 when the 14th Dalai Lama openly criticized Dorje Shugden saying Dorje Shugden is not an enlighten being and by practicing him will shorten his life. But isn't him the Buddha? How can an evil spirit can shortens a Buddha's life.
2) Dorje Shugden is not an enlighten being.
But what about Nechung? (No disrespect) but I believed Nechung is officially Dalai Lama's advisor and Nechung is not an enlighten being. Why is the Dalai Lama consulting Nechung? Doesn't make sense?
3) Whoever practice Dorje Shugden will go to hell.
Look at those High Lamas who had been practicing Dorje Shugden in all their life time have been reincarnate and get even bigger (status). Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche for example.
All the above points is just my personal thoughts.
Indeed, this is exactly what I mean. If we are not suppose to consult or pray to something that is not enlightened, why is the Dalai Lama still consulting Nechung? It would only show all practitioners everywhere that it is alright if we consult or even pray to an unenlightened being.
It it so much so that we should not be practising Dorje Shugden practices and consulting our Lord, then why did the Dalai Lama consulted Dorje Shugden with regards for his escape from Tibet to India? (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/uncovered-truth-evidence-of-how-dorje-shugden-was-actually-behind-the-dalai-lamas-escape-out-of-tibet-to-india-in-1959/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/uncovered-truth-evidence-of-how-dorje-shugden-was-actually-behind-the-dalai-lamas-escape-out-of-tibet-to-india-in-1959/)) Would it mean that the Dalai Lama was wrong in the past?
That would just be so self contradicting. If by practicing Dorje Shugden, it would harm the Dalai Lama. Why wouldn't it harm the Dalai Lama during the escape, but for Dorje Shugden to wait till now to harm the Dalai Lama. It just does not make any sense at all.
-
Well, they are lovely pictures of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche isn't it? I don't really have to look at Kyabje Zong Rinpoche to derive faith that Dorje Shugden is a spirit or not. I develop faith by looking at what so many attained masters have said about Dorje Shugden including the Dalai Lama before he decided to issue a ban on him. Masters of Kagyu, Sakya and many great Nyingma practitoners had practiced Dorje Shugden and gain protection and blessings.
Even the current young Kyabje Zong Rinpoche has been keeping in contact with Trijang Rinpoche and has kept quiet on the issue and has outwardly appear to have renounced Dorje Shugden but maintain silence on this matter. As an exemplary scholar, he chose to focus on his monastic education instead. I won't be surprised if he secret worships Dorje Shugden and would readily receive sogtae again when the ban comes down. He would be one of the key lamas to spread Dorje Shugden when the ban comes down.
-
Kyabje Zong Rinpoche is one of my favourite Lamas.. everytime I see His pictures, I feel a strong sense of warmth, calm and peace. Really thank Big Uncle for sharing these photos!
I do agree with rossoneri's logic about Dorje Shugden practitioners. One of the strongest arguments about Dorje Shugden is enlightened is because so many Lamas do His practice, and they are able to reincarnate as human and benefit others.. If Dorje Shugden is indeed a bad spirit, then there is no way the practitioners can reincarnate, lifetime after lifetime.
-
Thank you so much Big Uncle for sharing these precious photos of Zong Rinpoche. Agree with Kris that when I see these pictures, I feel calm and peace too.
It is a strong and true fact that Zong Rinpoche who practiced Dorje Shugden has reincarnated. There is just a slap to the face to those who claim on “Whoever practice Dorje Shugden will go to hell.”
Please read on this article that share one of Zong Rinpoche’s teaching on Dorje Shugden. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/four-important-videos/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/four-important-videos/)
-
Thank you Big Uncle for these lovely pictures of Kabje Zong Rinpoche.
I remember it was Kabje Zong Rinpoche at the bedside of Lama Yeshe doing puja during his last breath at a hospital in the USA when Lama Yeshe suffered a heart attack. Today Lama Yeshe has reincarnated as Lama Osel who has returned to this planet well and healthy. Doesn't this speak so much about Kabje Zong Rinpoche, a highly accomplished sutric and tantric master who is a strong Shugden Lama?
-
Thank you Big Uncle for posting these rare photos. Even by just looking on the photos, felt so blessed. H.H Zong Rinpoche welknown on practiced Dorje Shugden. If H.H practiced something evil, how can H.H reincarnate as human being again and still be a lineage holder of Gelug.
Thus to say practitioner of Dorje Shugden was evil is totally not true.
-
Thank you for the photos, they are rare and clear. i also thought that it looks like DS related puja although i have no clue about what it is about. Looking at a high Lama performing tantric activities is a blessing. Close students of Zong Rinpoche will missed him a lot. But having these photos are good on altars too.
-
I don't know much about the full practice of the protector, we just do the mantra and golden drink offering at the centre, but even then we see the positive effect in our lives. If i'm not mistaken there maybe a section of the practice when weapons or implements are given to the protector for him to use with specific functions to be performed. I wonder if this is what the pictures of His Holiness Zong Rinpoche shows?
-
Thank You, Big Uncle for those precious photos of H.H Zong Rinpoche. I have downloaded all of it in my hard drive.
-
I have 2 awesome pictures of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche to share with you:
1st Picture: Gaden lineage Masters: Kyabje Zong Rinpoche and Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche with Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. They are heart disciples of Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang.
2nd Picture: Kyabje Zong Rinpoche making torma gyatsa offerings.
-
I have many more rare photos like these ( many of these photos in this thread were photos I posted on facebook). I will post more soon.
-
Another
-
another
-
Another
-
I don't know much about the full practice of the protector, we just do the mantra and golden drink offering at the centre, but even then we see the positive effect in our lives. If i'm not mistaken there maybe a section of the practice when weapons or implements are given to the protector for him to use with specific functions to be performed. I wonder if this is what the pictures of His Holiness Zong Rinpoche shows?
I believe Zong Rinpoche was doing a tantric ritual puja of Yamantaka... according to Losang Tenpa who has the 4 hour video but cannot be uploaded on to Youtube. Perhaps kind Losang could send it to the admin? or do a quick edit cut that shows a little so we can all get some blessings? I know if it is Tantric we cannot watch unless we have the permission of the Guru himself. Well, don't think we can ask the current Zong Rinpoche! Not so easy hu... gosh I wish the stupid ban is over and done with!
Thank Losang for your pictures here ;)
-
2nd Picture: Kyabje Zong Rinpoche making torma gyatsa offerings.
Dear Icy,
What is a torma qyatsa offering? Sounds interesting.
I believe Zong Rinpoche was doing a tantric ritual puja of Yamantaka... according to Losang Tenpa who has the 4 hour video but cannot be uploaded on to Youtube. Perhaps kind Losang could send it to the admin? or do a quick edit cut that shows a little so we can all get some blessings? I know if it is Tantric we cannot watch unless we have the permission of the Guru himself. Well, don't think we can ask the current Zong Rinpoche! Not so easy hu... gosh I wish the stupid ban is over and done with!
Thank Losang for your pictures here ;)
Hi Dsiluvu,
Thanks for actually finding out what the ritual is all about. So, its actually a Yamantaka practice right? Interesting. It's interesting and perhaps, the implements offered are of what Yamantaka carries. Wow! I love these pictures. They are indeed very beautiful in the way Zong Rinpoche held onto the implements. Wish I could watch the actual video to see how Kyabje Zong Rinpoche performs the entire ritual. It must be electrifying.
-
Dear Big Uncle,
100 Torma Offering Ritual is called as Torma Gyatso in Tibetan. It is special food offering made according to either Sutric or Tantric rituals to a specific deity or protector to collect vast merits.
So awesome, Khabje Zong Rinpoche looked so elegant in the ritual.
-
I believe Zong Rinpoche was doing a tantric ritual puja of Yamantaka... according to Losang Tenpa who has the 4 hour video but cannot be uploaded on to Youtube. Perhaps kind Losang could send it to the admin? or do a quick edit cut that shows a little so we can all get some blessings? I know if it is Tantric we cannot watch unless we have the permission of the Guru himself. Well, don't think we can ask the current Zong Rinpoche! Not so easy hu... gosh I wish the stupid ban is over and done with!
Dsiluvu, thanks for the clarification. I do hope that one day i get to see the video. Maybe one day.....
Hi Dsiluvu,
Thanks for actually finding out what the ritual is all about. So, its actually a Yamantaka practice right? Interesting. It's interesting and perhaps, the implements offered are of what Yamantaka carries. Wow! I love these pictures. They are indeed very beautiful in the way Zong Rinpoche held onto the implements. Wish I could watch the actual video to see how Kyabje Zong Rinpoche performs the entire ritual. It must be electrifying.
Big Uncle, It sure is interesting. It a blessing to see these pictures of Zong Rinpoche performing this ritual. I just wish I had the merits to see it performed! A great master practicing Yamantaka, how wonderful. May Yamantaka destroy the veil of ignorance of my mind.
-
I believe Zong Rinpoche was doing a tantric ritual puja of Yamantaka... according to Losang Tenpa who has the 4 hour video but cannot be uploaded on to Youtube. Perhaps kind Losang could send it to the admin? or do a quick edit cut that shows a little so we can all get some blessings? I know if it is Tantric we cannot watch unless we have the permission of the Guru himself. Well, don't think we can ask the current Zong Rinpoche! Not so easy hu... gosh I wish the stupid ban is over and done with!
Thank Losang for your pictures here ;)
WOW! Thank You Big Uncle for bringing the blessing of the previous incarnation His Holiness Kyabje Zong Rinpoche to us. Furthermore, seeing these rare photos is as good as seeing Yamantaka! How fortunate we are! We are creating imprints and planting seeds in our minds to receive and practise Yamantaka in the future. :)
-
It is always a privilege to know of the lives of our lineage Gurus. There are so many beautiful photos of Zong Rinpoche, both formal and informal shots and some conducting some rituals.
It is indeed a blessing to be able to see these photos.
-
Wow! These are lovely pictures of HH Zong Rinpoche, I'm glad to have encountered them here.
I have heard so many wonderful stories of HH Zong Rinpoche. Such an incredible lama, I wish I had the merits to have met and learnt the Dharma from these great masters.
-
Thank you all for sharing the precious photos of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche. It’s so blessed to be able to see the photos of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche especially those conducting rituals. He is a high lama who mastered in tantra and sutra. I came across a video of him giving the profound Dorje Shugden initiation to Geshe Tsultim Gyeltsen's students in Los Angeles in 1980s. Please read the advice from Zong Rinpoche on Dorje Shugden here (Youtube video and transcript): http://www.dorjeshugden.com/videos/must-watch/must-watch-advice-from-hh-kyabje-zong-dorje-chang-on-dorje-shugden-part-1/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/videos/must-watch/must-watch-advice-from-hh-kyabje-zong-dorje-chang-on-dorje-shugden-part-1/)
I hope one day I would be able to meet HH Zong Rinpoche and learn from him too. With folded hands...
-
I just heard a story about the previous Zong Rinpoche how he was doing a Trakze ritual in Gaden, when the Chinese were shelling Gaden Monastery. And despite there was so much danger to Zong Rinpoche he carried on despite the pleased of his assistants. Certain people saw a light from gaden monastery went over to the Chinese Camps and for whatever reason the Chinese stopped their shelling which gave the monks of Gaden the time to leave to safety. And when Zong Rinpoche did the ritual all but the back wall was standing. An amazing lama whose concern is that for Buddhism to live on and saving other monks of Gaden.
-
Thank you for these wonderful, blessed photos of Kaybje Zong Rinpoche. Dorje Shugden has been practiced for so long, even before the fall of Tibet and the great escape of H.H. Dalai Lama to India. Even H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama praciticed Dorje Shugden when he was younger. He is now in his eighties, a relatively long time by any standard. This is Samsara and no one can live forever, only the mindstream can go on. So, if H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama were to pass into clear light tomorrow, when he is well into his eighties, it will be because there are many Dorje Shugden Pratitioners? I'm puzzled? Is his current incarnation supposed to live forever? Sorry for being dense.
-
Thank you so much for all these precious photos Big Uncle.
It is funny how the previous Zong Rinpoche did not manage to swear out as he has passed away before the ban. But since Zong Rinpoche has already reincarnated, it would definitely mean that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit. For a very simple reason, if he really is, high lamas like Zong Rinpoche that practices Dorje Shugden strongly before they pass away would definitely not incarnate and be with us again.
Rinchen, I agree. But I would like to add a spin to your logic and I read somewhere that claimed that Zong Rinpoche was just using the spirit to do work. From that point of view, if Zong Rinpoche is realized he can certainly incarnate on anew and that is still possible and logically sound except we can ask why would Zong Rinpoche use a spirit? Form this point of view, we can than argue that there are 2 possibilities:
1) Dorje Shugden is an unenlightened protector similar to Nechung.
2) The strongest argument would be that Zong Rinpoche said that Dorje Shugden is Manjushri.
So from that perspective, since we now Zong Rinpoche incarnated and hence is realized and he said the Protector is Enlightened, we than regard the Protector as Enlightened.