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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ensapa on June 12, 2013, 06:44:37 AM

Title: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Ensapa on June 12, 2013, 06:44:37 AM
Here's a hilarious article i found on the Dalai Lama written by someone who has no understanding of anything.

Quote
Is Tibetan Lamaism Buddhism? (2)
Dalai Lama's Black Magic
20 April 2008

Tibetan voodoo believes each life has its source called La. La doesn't have to be located within the body, but can be situated anywhere - on a hill, in a lake or within a beast. One person may have more than one La. Moreover, a family, a tribe or a nation also has its collective La. If you want to destroy your opponents, according to Tibetan Lamaism, the easiest way to achieve the goal is to find out through divination where this person's La locates and then destroy it.



The 5th Dalai Lama is known to be completely obsessed with Black Magic, and exploited some allegedly extremely powerful voodoos to eliminate his political rivals.

One of such super measures to efficiently kill people in a large scale and is Eight Teeth Wheel, which is said can slay hundreds of thousands of people in the blink of an eye.[1]

Another powerful killing machine handed down by the 5th Dalai is so-called “Devil’s Grinding Mill” made of two round stones. It is said that the 5th Dalai Lama held voodoo rituals for the purpose of killing periodically and on every special occasions, and he was convinced that his triumphant over his political rivals had to be attributed mainly to, not the force of the Mongols, but the power of his voodoo. According to Kagyupa document, the lama in question once released five vicious demons from hell to seduce Mongols into a Tibetan trap to meet their doomed fate. [2]

The 14th Dalai has acknowledged that he draws inspiration mainly from 5th Dalai, so how good is this current lama at using the black magic? This is a closely guarded secret in the Tibetan government-in-exile, but still there are traces all over that can help us to gain some insight into his murky world. In Dalai’s autobiography there is a reference on how his black magic caused the death of China’s late leader Mao Zedong. In the book he gives a detailed description of a three-day voodoo ritual taken place with Kalachakra Tantra - a time machine in Lamaism. Following the instructions by the 5th Dalai, the 14th Dalai held a weeks-long prayer session in solitary prior to the ritual. On September 8, 1976, a process to manipulate the "time" began. When the ritual entered the second day, September 9, Mao died. The Dalai described how in the morning of the third day, he found the heaven was in tears, then in the afternoon, he witnessed a most beautiful rainbow in the sky that he ever seen in his life. [3]

Whether it is a true story or a fiction, in the circle of the Tibetan Lamaist followers, the cause of Mao’s death is commonly credited to Dalai’s black magic. And not just Mao, even the death of another Chinese supreme leader Deng Xiaoping is attributed to the power of voodoo, this time it was executed by Dalai’s brother Gyalo Thondup. Deng died on February 12, 1997. Just days before his death he met with the master of the black magic, thus a link between the meeting and the death is conveniently established according to the Lamaist tradition. [4]

Reportedly the 14th Dalai Lama also used this “Devil’s Grinding Mill” in his battle against an army. He drew the La of the enemy troops into mustard seeds, when he learned through omens that he successfully did so, he placed the seeds in the Devil’s Mill and ordered the lamas to grind them into powder. Allegedly the force of destruction was so potent that the lamas who grinded the mill all died soon after the ritual. The mill is still kept in a Yellow Hat Lamaist Monastery KardoGompa outside Lhasa.

[1] Secret visions of the fifth Dalai Lama. The gold manuscript in the fournier collection, London 1988. By Samtsen Gyaltsen Karmay
[2] Zahiruddin Ahmad: Sino-Tibetan relations in the seventeenth century, in: Serie Orientale Roma XL, Roma
[3] Dalai Lama XIV, Das Buch der Freiheit, Bergisch Gladbach 1993
[4] Rene de Nebesky-Wojkowitz: Oracles and demons of Tibet, the cult and Iconography of the Tibetan protective deities, Kathmandu 1993

Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Big Uncle on June 12, 2013, 08:24:23 AM
I have actually heard of Tantric rituals that have descended from India in ancient times that are used to kill one's opponent. However, the ritual would only work if the ritualist or the Tantrika performing the ritual with a Bodhichitta-like motivation. In tantra, killing is absolutely a heinous action and it can only be done with the best of intentions.

However, having said that, it is common knowledge that such rituals have become extinct as many Indian masters refused to transmit those rituals and teachings in fear that they would be abused or met with wrong views about them. Hence, such teachings and lineages have since become the fodder of mystery and magic. That's why I am not surprised it has been brought up many times before. Perhaps, the Tantric liturgy that is being chanted are directly translated and many rituals contain gory references and often violent and graphic descriptions that may seemed very shamanistic and may be easily misunderstood.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Ensapa on June 13, 2013, 12:52:08 AM
I have actually heard of Tantric rituals that have descended from India in ancient times that are used to kill one's opponent. However, the ritual would only work if the ritualist or the Tantrika performing the ritual with a Bodhichitta-like motivation. In tantra, killing is absolutely a heinous action and it can only be done with the best of intentions.

However, having said that, it is common knowledge that such rituals have become extinct as many Indian masters refused to transmit those rituals and teachings in fear that they would be abused or met with wrong views about them. Hence, such teachings and lineages have since become the fodder of mystery and magic. That's why I am not surprised it has been brought up many times before. Perhaps, the Tantric liturgy that is being chanted are directly translated and many rituals contain gory references and often violent and graphic descriptions that may seemed very shamanistic and may be easily misunderstood.

I am pretty convinced that this is just another sensationalist propaganda that the Chinese have written against the Dalai Lama, but what makes it interesting is that this article was written at 2008, at the height of the Dorje Shugden ban, as if the karma from all the nasty things they said against Dorje Shugden came back in the form of these ridiculous articles against them and we can say that there are people that will believe them, just like how people would be able to believe those rumors against Dorje Shugden and his practitioners. What CTA said against Dorje Shugden practitioners are coming back to them in this way. The whole idea of this article capitalizes on the mystery and lack of knowledge that surrounds tibetan Buddhism, just like how CTA capitalizes on the same thing to position themselves as the authority for Tibetan Buddhism to the Tibetan Buddhists.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: kris on June 22, 2013, 08:56:03 AM
There are many different theories about things which cannot be explained by science. As Buddhists, we believe in karma and after life. Christian believe that either people go to heaven or hell after the death. Of course there are other believes that has other theories.

I would say this Black Magic "theory" is just another story to read :)
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Ensapa on June 22, 2013, 09:13:49 AM
There are many different theories about things which cannot be explained by science. As Buddhists, we believe in karma and after life. Christian believe that either people go to heaven or hell after the death. Of course there are other believes that has other theories.

I would say this Black Magic "theory" is just another story to read :)

It may be a story to read for all of us who are aware of what is going on, but it may be something real and true for someone who does not know anything and who is also superstitious at the same time. It also shows us the level of misconceptions that are in the world today about Buddhism, and the fact that this is against the Dalai Lama at the time where it's at the height of the Dorje Shugden ban makes it a very clear sign that it is the karma for posting untrue and ridiculous allegations against Dorje Shugden.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Rinchen on June 22, 2013, 09:56:19 AM
This is a really interesting article on how H.H Dalai Lama uses "Black magic". I do agree that this might be one of the ways that the Chinese Agents are trying to get back at DL by defaming him.

But I do not believe that the DL would kill just for his personal gain. I feel that there are no reason for anyone to kill just for their personal gain or even pleasure. It is just plain disgusting.

Thank you Big Uncle for the knowledge to the Tantric practice descended from India in ancient times. I still do not believe that killing would solve anything, even though it might be for the greater cause.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: jagger on June 22, 2013, 11:59:18 AM
I have actually heard of Tantric rituals that have descended from India in ancient times that are used to kill one's opponent. However, the ritual would only work if the ritualist or the Tantrika performing the ritual with a Bodhichitta-like motivation. In tantra, killing is absolutely a heinous action and it can only be done with the best of intentions.

However, having said that, it is common knowledge that such rituals have become extinct as many Indian masters refused to transmit those rituals and teachings in fear that they would be abused or met with wrong views about them. Hence, such teachings and lineages have since become the fodder of mystery and magic. That's why I am not surprised it has been brought up many times before. Perhaps, the Tantric liturgy that is being chanted are directly translated and many rituals contain gory references and often violent and graphic descriptions that may seemed very shamanistic and may be easily misunderstood.

True to the nature of Tibetan Buddhist rituals, there are many beings or situations which are hard to tame or subdue using normal means. Hence, violent or fierce rituals are employed through the force of compassion in order to solve the problem present at the time of doing such rituals. Indeed these rituals may appear to be "evil", "fierce" and sometimes "violent" but the underlying energy or motivation behind this is actually compassion or concern for other sentient beings.

Blalck magic or not, this is another form or label secular beings put onto spiritual means. I do agree that the media blows things out of proportion but which media doesn't do so for the sake of disseminating the information to make an impact on the reader?
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Ensapa on June 23, 2013, 12:33:32 AM

True to the nature of Tibetan Buddhist rituals, there are many beings or situations which are hard to tame or subdue using normal means. Hence, violent or fierce rituals are employed through the force of compassion in order to solve the problem present at the time of doing such rituals. Indeed these rituals may appear to be "evil", "fierce" and sometimes "violent" but the underlying energy or motivation behind this is actually compassion or concern for other sentient beings.

Blalck magic or not, this is another form or label secular beings put onto spiritual means. I do agree that the media blows things out of proportion but which media doesn't do so for the sake of disseminating the information to make an impact on the reader?

I personally doubt that the article refers to those rituals as those rituals that are used to kill others but in reality send them to a pureland, so that they do not do harm to others because those rituals have long been extinct or kept very secret as there is no need for such actions or methods now as everyone is educated and they can change their harmful ways if reasoned out with. This was not written by or for the mainstream media, but for people who google about the Dalai Lama and find out about that article and get misunderstandings from it.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: fruven on June 23, 2013, 10:55:40 PM
The article is focusing that Dalai Lama has many enemies and he overcome these enemies by killing them with black magic. We cannot deny there are people practicing black magic out there for revenge, payback, or get something they want but Dalai Lama doing black magic? Buddhism doesn't teach black magic. If Dalai Lama is doing black magic it is like saying he is not enlightened, not skillful and have to resort to these methods to beat his opponents. Enlightened beings don't need to have black magic. They don't have enemies even to begin with. Instead they practice compassion to help all sentient beings. Otherwise why would Dalai Lama travel all over the world to spread the Dharma?
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Ensapa on June 24, 2013, 04:29:27 AM
The article is focusing that Dalai Lama has many enemies and he overcome these enemies by killing them with black magic. We cannot deny there are people practicing black magic out there for revenge, payback, or get something they want but Dalai Lama doing black magic? Buddhism doesn't teach black magic. If Dalai Lama is doing black magic it is like saying he is not enlightened, not skillful and have to resort to these methods to beat his opponents. Enlightened beings don't need to have black magic. They don't have enemies even to begin with. Instead they practice compassion to help all sentient beings. Otherwise why would Dalai Lama travel all over the world to spread the Dharma?

well you see, that is what the Dalai Lama's enemies want us to believe: that he is not enlightened, a fraud, a cruel man etc, but unfortunately these are baseless lies and they cannot harm the Dalai Lama's reputation one bit, simply because they are not true, but still there will be naive people who believe them to be true. The same thing can be said about the Dorje Shugden issue, in reality, where the CTA continues to spread far fetched lies against Dorje Shugden, only to damage their own reputation in the eyes of the world over time. CTA is losing credibility...as to the people who wrote these silly articles against the Dalai Lama. Such is the karma of lies.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Rinchen on July 06, 2013, 03:08:25 PM
I feel that it is just the Chinese agents trying to let the people that have faith in DL lose their faith towards him. Leading us to think that he is a con man that does not practice real Buddhism. Eventually, making the Tibetans that still reside at Tibet believe and China, not fighting back for their land anymore.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Ensapa on July 06, 2013, 03:27:10 PM
I feel that it is just the Chinese agents trying to let the people that have faith in DL lose their faith towards him. Leading us to think that he is a con man that does not practice real Buddhism. Eventually, making the Tibetans that still reside at Tibet believe and China, not fighting back for their land anymore.

The Tibetans will always want independence because they want a sense of identity. They will not feel comfortable with the presence of the chinese in their country because nobody wants their country to be occupied, or to have no country to be called of their own. So independence is always in their mind no matter what China tries to do, and China knows that. But China can always try to change their minds by tempting them with progress and material needs. These articles are probably written by someone that is disgruntled with Tibetan Buddhism and not the Dalai Lama himself as this is just one of the many articles on the same website that demonises Tibetan Buddhism.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Q on July 06, 2013, 05:21:50 PM
LOL!!! I understand what Big Uncle said and it is true that in the past there are some Tantric practices that can be used to kill others but it is used for the best intentions, preventing a person from creating more demerit for himself.

But what was written here is utterly ridiculous! It even indicates that HHDL used black magic to kill Mao Zedong! Well... if the Dalai Lama had such capability of wanted to do such an act, HHDL would have done it before Tibetan was invaded by the Chinese, that would be a more logical approach doesn't it?

While I do believe that the Dalai Lama has exceptional insights in many things, just like many other High Lamas would have, I highly doubt one of them is to intentionally kill others.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: hope rainbow on July 07, 2013, 03:01:05 AM
I am pretty convinced that this is just another sensationalist propaganda that the Chinese have written against the Dalai Lama, but what makes it interesting is that this article was written at 2008, at the height of the Dorje Shugden ban, as if the karma from all the nasty things they said against Dorje Shugden came back in the form of these ridiculous articles against them and we can say that there are people that will believe them, just like how people would be able to believe those rumors against Dorje Shugden and his practitioners. What CTA said against Dorje Shugden practitioners are coming back to them in this way. The whole idea of this article capitalizes on the mystery and lack of knowledge that surrounds tibetan Buddhism, just like how CTA capitalizes on the same thing to position themselves as the authority for Tibetan Buddhism to the Tibetan Buddhists.

If this is the case, then the method used is very efficient.
Indeed, instead of talking about Buddhas, Enlightened Beings, lineage, Dharma, Schisme, Noble Truths, etc... the article is talking about black magic, which is a subject unfortunately MUCH MORE POPULAR than Dharma...

Most people, and especially so in countries like China, most people would read with great interest an article about black magic (*), the same cannot be said of an article about lineage or Dharma.
So to spread a story about the Dalai Lama using black magic will attract the attention it seeks.

(*)
Most people are ready to believe in ghosts, but not in after-life. As well, most people are ready to believe in black magic, but not in the power of prayers. Interesting contradiction...
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: fruven on July 07, 2013, 11:05:45 PM
Interesting point you brought up. There are people who might be interested and read about black magic. If you practice black magic and people might also do black magic and target back at you. The article gives the impression that Dalai Lama doesn't suffer any consequences from doing black magic on others. Indeed Dalai Lama wouldn't suffer because he doesn't has the negative karma to receive it. However this cannot be said the same for us laypeople who are not enlightened. We could suffer from black magic because of our past negative actions. Dalai Lama doesn't suffer from black magic because he avoid negative actions and do only positive actions since the past and even now. Why would he even need to start doing black magic now?
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Tenzin Gyatso on July 08, 2013, 06:49:50 AM
Fret not. No one can defame a sublime being like HHDL. He is above it all and those who follow him cannot be shaken by childish articles.

We are lucky as we get to see HHDL in Dharamsala. Often times he is driven by and we get glimpses. Amazing what that'll do for you for the rest of the day.

Namgyal Monastery and all the institutions under HHDL are all very blessed to be in such close proximity to a such a Mahatma such as HHDL.

I don't enjoy the cold here, but HHDL sure warms me up. ;)
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Ensapa on July 08, 2013, 08:43:28 AM
Fret not. No one can defame a sublime being like HHDL. He is above it all and those who follow him cannot be shaken by childish articles.

We are lucky as we get to see HHDL in Dharamsala. Often times he is driven by and we get glimpses. Amazing what that'll do for you for the rest of the day.

Namgyal Monastery and all the institutions under HHDL are all very blessed to be in such close proximity to a such a Mahatma such as HHDL.

I don't enjoy the cold here, but HHDL sure warms me up. ;)

It may not shake the Dalai Lama, but it can certainly shake the faiths of those who are ignorant of the Dalai Lama and those whose minds are weak. It is not the Dalai Lama that we should be worried about but those with weak faiths and minds that we should be worried about. They need love and help too and spiritual help for sure despite their misgivings and misconceptions. That is why we have to know how to address this kind of articles without sounding too fanatical.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Tenzin Gyatso on July 08, 2013, 08:55:38 AM
Dear Ensapa,

You are right. Nothing can shake HHDL. He is otherworldly and super-worldly already. He is really an advanced meditation master of the highest degree.

His students and others students due to karma can by iffy. ;)

Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Rinchen on July 08, 2013, 12:17:58 PM
It is true that the believers can lose faith by reading all these articles. But the will lose faith because of their weak minds, which is in other words be because of their negative karma catching up to them to cause them to lose their faith.

If they have a strong mind and generate merits while they learn dharma, I believe that all these words/articles would mean nothing at all to them.

If they say that HH Dalai Lama does black magic, it would also mean that karma does not exist. Then in that case what is taught for thousands of years by the Buddha would be wrong, our ancestors would be wrong. Then what more do we need to practice.

I believe that karma would always exist. Hence, I highly doubt and do not believe that DL practices black magic. Otherwise, he would also be harmed by black magic.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: brian on July 08, 2013, 05:07:01 PM
I  agree, why would Dalai Lama practices black magic? He is Chenrizig and do not need to do black magic to 'dispel' any beings. For me Dalai Lama (regarded as Chenrizig and i believe He is) do not need to practise black magic. The attainments and practices that Dalai Lama has obtained is complete thanks to Dalai Lama's tutors and do not need to invoke a particular black magic. Furthermore, i do not believe Dalai Lama would harm anyone. Why would a Buddha want to harm a particular being and add on to that, why would He need to harm a particular being by using black magic.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Ensapa on July 09, 2013, 07:46:34 AM
Dear Ensapa,

You are right. Nothing can shake HHDL. He is otherworldly and super-worldly already. He is really an advanced meditation master of the highest degree.

His students and others students due to karma can by iffy. ;)

But if his students are misbehaving, wouldnt it shorten the Dalai Lama's life? then why not try and educate them so that the Dalai Lama can truly live long? Else, his days are numbered due to the huge amount of broken samaya that they generate. they say that the students reflect the Guru, so if his students are iffy, then isnt the Guru iffy as well? perhaps someone should remind them that they should really play their part as the Dalai Lama's students in more ways than one.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Rinchen on July 09, 2013, 11:45:50 AM
Everyone would have karma effects in a way or another. Not all will notice it, but definitely there will be ways that karma would get to us. Even if it is for DL.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Ensapa on July 10, 2013, 05:12:23 AM
It is true that the believers can lose faith by reading all these articles. But the will lose faith because of their weak minds, which is in other words be because of their negative karma catching up to them to cause them to lose their faith.

If they have a strong mind and generate merits while they learn dharma, I believe that all these words/articles would mean nothing at all to them.

If they say that HH Dalai Lama does black magic, it would also mean that karma does not exist. Then in that case what is taught for thousands of years by the Buddha would be wrong, our ancestors would be wrong. Then what more do we need to practice.

I believe that karma would always exist. Hence, I highly doubt and do not believe that DL practices black magic. Otherwise, he would also be harmed by black magic.

Then again, people with fickle minds outweigh the ones that have stable minds, and that is a problem by itself. The majority of the people around will flip at the smallest of rumors. Tibetan Buddhism being a mysterious subject that is difficult for someone with a simple mind to understand does not help much either. So any 'leads' at all that is being spread to the public would be easily believed as people would only see things on the surface compared to really investigating them. Therefore, as tibetan Buddhists we have to clear up these misconceptions.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Rinchen on July 24, 2013, 10:33:51 PM
Then again, people with fickle minds outweigh the ones that have stable minds, and that is a problem by itself. The majority of the people around will flip at the smallest of rumors. Tibetan Buddhism being a mysterious subject that is difficult for someone with a simple mind to understand does not help much either. So any 'leads' at all that is being spread to the public would be easily believed as people would only see things on the surface compared to really investigating them. Therefore, as tibetan Buddhists we have to clear up these misconceptions.

It is correct that we as practitioners would have to clear these misconceptions. That is why this website is so beneficial, because there are so many people that do not understand things but they will be able to make a stronger stand on what they believe based on articles, and forum readings. They will also be able to understand more by reading up on articles online. If they are hardworking and not lazy, they will benefit, but if the are lazy and are not willing to read, then it is their lost.

Things that can be done is very limited. Having a website available is the best way to reach out already as it can reach out to a few millions at a go, but having person to person communication, although might be more effective, but the number of people that can be reached is much lesser.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Ensapa on July 27, 2013, 05:32:03 AM
It is correct that we as practitioners would have to clear these misconceptions. That is why this website is so beneficial, because there are so many people that do not understand things but they will be able to make a stronger stand on what they believe based on articles, and forum readings. They will also be able to understand more by reading up on articles online. If they are hardworking and not lazy, they will benefit, but if the are lazy and are not willing to read, then it is their lost.

Things that can be done is very limited. Having a website available is the best way to reach out already as it can reach out to a few millions at a go, but having person to person communication, although might be more effective, but the number of people that can be reached is much lesser.

I think we need to remember about something here that for every person who is not willing to read, there are many others that will be willing to read up on this information and they will wanna learn about the truth more, and the lies of people who are not willing to read will not go through to them simply because they know better already. So i'd say that we should aim for the bigger picture and the bigger goal rather than for just what we can see in front of us. The articles are for those who want to learn the truth anyway.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Rinchen on August 03, 2013, 06:58:09 PM
Well said Ensapa, information that can be passed around is just so limited. Even if for those who are not willing to read, and if they are pro-Dalai Lama, they would not even listen to those who want to let them know more about Dorje Shugden because they have already shut their ears when they know that it is a Dorje Shugden practitioner trying to give them a "Dharma talk".

I feel that there are so many differences because it all balls down to our negative karma that would allow or not allow us to move forward in our spiritual path.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: samayakeeper on August 04, 2013, 07:11:49 AM
I wonder, if HHDL and his predecessor did practice black magic, then why didn't they use it against Dorje Shugden? That proves that HHDL and Dorje Shugden are of the same mind, the mind of a Buddha.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Rinchen on August 09, 2013, 08:43:39 PM
I wonder, if HHDL and his predecessor did practice black magic, then why didn't they use it against Dorje Shugden? That proves that HHDL and Dorje Shugden are of the same mind, the mind of a Buddha.

Nicely said. If the Dalai Lama really practiced black magic, he would not be considered as an emanation of Buddha at all.This is because he is using actions and some supernatural powers to do things that he might not be able to do so in the first place. And from there he would be getting some negative karma that would allow others to harm him with magic as well, due to the karma that is being opened.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Blueupali on August 10, 2013, 12:28:01 AM
I wonder, if HHDL and his predecessor did practice black magic, then why didn't they use it against Dorje Shugden? That proves that HHDL and Dorje Shugden are of the same mind, the mind of a Buddha.

That Dorje Shugden is impervious to black magic actually is an indication of the fact that he is a Buddha; those that would use black magic against him would not really succeed, but that really doesn't prove whether the user of black magic is a Buddha or not. 
  Black magic by the definition of praciticing with a worldly motivation wouldn't happen from a Buddha of course, since they always have a perfect motivation.  The appearance of black magic could be performed by an emanation of a Buddha, though, and we might not really be sure if he is a Buddha or not, thus we wouldn't be sure if it were black magic or not.
  For example, on the theory that Milarepa emanated a form that appeared to be not yet awake the lifetime he studied with Marpa, before he met Marpa, Milarepa performed deeds which were seen as non-Buddhst black magic (hailstorms that killed people).  However, if Milarepa was already a Buddha emanating to show us how to have perfect devotion to a lama and acheive Buddhahood in one life, then his act of black magic isn't really black magic, because Buddhas do not really do any act without a perfect motivation.
 
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Rinchen on August 14, 2013, 10:54:33 PM
It is just a way to viewing the situation. But even so, for the Dalai Lama to practice black magic is impossible. Why would the Dalai Lama need magic when he is Avalokitesvara? He would not even need the help of magic at all, he is a Buddha he knows what is going on constantly.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Blueupali on August 14, 2013, 11:54:45 PM
It is just a way to viewing the situation. But even so, for the Dalai Lama to practice black magic is impossible. Why would the Dalai Lama need magic when he is Avalokitesvara? He would not even need the help of magic at all, he is a Buddha he knows what is going on constantly.

Ah, well I do see what you are saying.  My point would just be that if an emanation of Avalokiteshvara appeared to be doing black magic, which as you point out, he wouldn't need to do for his own use , then the emanation would only be doing it for appearance, that is, for some teaching mechanism or something. 
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Rinchen on August 15, 2013, 09:25:33 PM
Ah, well I do see what you are saying.  My point would just be that if an emanation of Avalokiteshvara appeared to be doing black magic, which as you point out, he wouldn't need to do for his own use , then the emanation would only be doing it for appearance, that is, for some teaching mechanism or something. 

I do agree with you that if ever the Dalai Lama practices magic it would be to teach his students some knowledge, and they would need that teaching. Hence, Dalai Lama manifested for a situation to help his students understand and look at the statue better.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: dsiluvu on August 16, 2013, 04:14:20 PM
I suppose if ever the Dalai Lama does any kind of "magic"... I would automatically consider it to be "white magic" instead of black! Why? Simple because He is Avalokiteshvara/Chenrezig! So how can the magic if any be "black" and definitely with pure motivation!

I think that it is definitely possible for the Dalai Lama to do tantric rituals and manifested a way to stop harm from someone who would cause greater harm like Mao who in his life time under his ruling, has killed 45 million people!! Now if you were a Boddhisattva, would you not generate a pure motivation to stop him from killing more and in fact, if really HHDL had killed him, it would also be to help him collect more negative karma!

But I wonder... if really that is so... why did HHDL not kill him before He invaded Tibet??? Maybe because if Tibet is taken over, all the highly attained Lamas will have no choice but to leave, take a new rebirth and basically bring Vajrayana Buddhism out to the world. In this way I can see how HHDL is so tolerant even after losing his country, because if that did not happen, we would probably not have our Gurus now, and I probably will not be Buddhist! 
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: DharmaSpace on August 21, 2013, 04:03:19 PM
If the magic was so powerful then the Dalai Lama could have wiped out all the PLA before they even started to invade  Tibet. People blame the Dalai Lama when it is convenient for them.

If the magic was so powerful then Tibet would be devoid of the Chinese and Chinese soldiers.   

If the magic was powerful then Dorje Shudgen would not have any more place on this earth if it was up to the Dalai Lama.

Magic can occur on people if they had created the causes to experience it. Magic real or imagined cannot work outside the laws of Karma. So if the Dorje Shugden practice was not pure and beneficial, then all the lamas within the Gelug tradition who relied on it would have died and gotten a negative rebirth. Nothing can overcome karma. 
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Rinchen on September 12, 2013, 06:57:13 PM
Like what is said, people blame because they want a reason. And when they cannot find a logical explanation together with concrete evidences, they turn to paranormal explanations. Hoping that all would believe what is being said. At the same time, through this action people would also defame the Dalai Lama so that the number of supporter that the Dalai Lama will drop.

Basically, the main reason for the accusation of Dalai Lama doing black magic is all for political reasons.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Dondrup Shugden on May 29, 2015, 03:17:22 PM
Black Magic is definitely a subject many people are interested in and have many theories about them.  Interesting is that it is believed that the 14 Dalai Lama in following the footsteps of the 5th Dalai Lama practises Black Magic.

Whatever it is, a very interesting article to read.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Matibhadra on May 29, 2015, 04:18:34 PM
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Interesting is that it is believed that the 14 Dalai Lama in following the footsteps of the 5th Dalai Lama practises Black Magic.

Black Magic and Dirty Politics, all for the personal profit of power hungry ghosts.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: kelly on May 30, 2015, 07:27:54 AM
I personally cannot believe that Dalai Lama use black magic to harm others as a highly attain lama should have compassion to all living being how can he use black magic to kill this is really hard to believe.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: prodorjeshugden on March 24, 2016, 02:29:45 PM
The person who wrote this post needs to learn more about rituals.
There are such rituals which can kill people, but the ritual can only be done when you have a full bodhicitta mind, the ritual is not for you to kill anyone you dislike.
If the Dalai Lama could kill anyone he hated then he won't be called the Dalai lama anymore, instead  he would be called the killer. 

Based on all the irrelevant facts given, I must say that this is quite likely some chinese propaganda aimed at tarnishing the reputation of the Dalai Lama.
 
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Matibhadra on March 24, 2016, 03:13:23 PM
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If the Dalai Lama could kill anyone he hated then he won't be called the Dalai lama anymore, instead  he would be called the killer.

The current evil dalie is hardly a “killer” on account of his childish, impotent black magic, but he is still a killer on account of his support to bloody racist riots, self-immolations, Islamic State terrorism, and so forth -- no matter how much his accomplices and supporters like you keep calling him “Dalai Lama”.

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Based on all the irrelevant facts given, I must say that this is quite likely some chinese propaganda aimed at tarnishing the reputation of the Dalai Lama.

Dirty CIA operatives such as the current, evil dalie have hardly any reputation to be tarnished. We are talking about cold, professional criminals, bloody mass murderers, people who devote their lives to the most unspeakable forms of evil on earth.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: VeronicaSmith on March 28, 2016, 02:49:19 PM
I do not believe in just believing in things such as this. I see that this has raised up a storm, but we should go deeper into it before we reach conclusions, if we do not do that then we are no different from the people than banned DS. We should approach this with an open mind, I think this may be a misunderstanding so please do your own research and digging into this and rituals before deciding for yourself. I will look deeper into this.
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: grandmapele on April 25, 2016, 08:01:56 AM
The Dalai Lama is a monk. He holds Refuge vow, ordinance vows and Bodhisattva vows. Practicing black magic breaks all these vows. That in itself will negate the black magic as I understand it. Or, maybe someone can correct me in that?
Title: Re: Dalai Lama's Black Magic
Post by: Matibhadra on April 28, 2016, 04:19:43 AM
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The Dalai Lama is a monk.

Impossible. Someone not holding Buddhist vows is no monk.

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He holds Refuge vow, ordinance vows and Bodhisattva vows.

This outdated theory has already been disproved many times on this website and elsewhere.

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Practicing black magic breaks all these vows.

The evil dalie hardly qualifies as a magician of any color; he would be better described as a ridiculous puppet, and as greedy, envious, petty tyrant.