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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: Ensapa on September 26, 2012, 05:37:45 PM
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Now everyone can truly stay alert and awake during their meditation sessions! Starbucks, now near a monastery. How would you feel? to me there is nothing wrong. Everyone needs coffee. So what's the big deal? Dharma is something that is not external but internal.
Starbucks near Buddhist temple triggers debate
Xinhua, Sept 24, 2012
HANGZHOU, China -- International coffee company and coffeehouse Starbucks has again brewed debate over business versus historical interests in China after its opening of an outlet near a famed Buddhist temple in east China.
([url]http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/picture/upload/starbucks.jpg[/url])
A Starbucks waitress serves a monk coffee on Saturday. The US coffee giant Starbucks has opened a cafe shop close to the Lingyin Temple, a Buddhist temple in Hangzhou, capital of Zhejiang province, giving rise to controversy. Some say Starbucks is bringing the "stench of money" to the temple. Others say it is only bringing Western culture into proximity with Chinese culture. [Photo/CFP]
The controversial Starbucks outlet opened on Saturday in the scenic zone of the quiet, secluded Lingyin Temple, or the Temple of Soul's Retreat, which is located in a wooded area on the bank of the West Lake in Hangzhou city, Zhejiang Province.
This is not the first time for Starbucks to light a fire under the kettle in China. In 2007, similar disputes over commercialism in points of historical interest eventually forced the closure of an outlet of the company it had operated for seven years in Beijing's Forbidden city, also known as the Imperial Palace.
Some people have expressed concerns about the American coffee chain's presence near the peaceful temple.
"The smell of the combination of coffee beans and burning incense must be the fragrant smell of money," Sina Weibo user "Liulianxiaobawang" wrote.
"Starbucks turned to the Buddha after it had 'entered' the Imperial Palace," wrote "Tangboxiaohu."
"Actually, the coffeehouse is a long distance from the temple. It is located in the tourist service area on Lingyin Road outside of the temple, as part of the supporting facilities," said Wang Shan, deputy director of the Lingyin Administration of the West Lake Administration in Hangzhou, provincial capital of Zhejiang.
The temple's administration has urged the cafe to change its name from "Lingyin Temple Starbucks" to "Lingyin Starbucks" to make it clear that it is not located inside the temple.
"Starbucks chose a relatively remote place in the scenic zone that is not along the tourist paths. It takes 20 minutes to walk from the temple gate to the coffeehouse," said a Starbucks staff member who declined to be named.
The cafe released a statement on its official Weibo account on Monday afternoon, explaining the cafe's location and professing its respect for Chinese history and traditional culture.
Meanwhile, a KFC outlet opened about 50 meters away from the controversial Starbucks months ago, joining other supermarkets and restaurants in the area. The Starbucks outlet was the administration's final plan for the service area.
Wang Shan said the administration has strictly controlled the commercial business environment surrounding the temple. "Many shops have been removed from the scenic area and new businesses can only open after a series of examinations, in order to protect the environment and culture of the Lingyin Temple."
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;D
Likely is the sentiment of anti-american or anti "presumably western culture" into China exploiting Temple which is in the vicinity for publicity sake. In Mahayana Buddhism, it's entirely "modernised" lest monkhood & nunhood in its external decorative standard :-*
There is this Dhritarashtra, the pipa-playing Heavenly King watching for the East and the wind, holding a pipa that denotes an educational value on the moderation of humanity mindset for common harmonious bliss and peace. The problem of human is that they presumed that buddhist temple or buddhism is a religion instead of unsurpassed value of teachings on the loving heart and mind of all to ensure eternal joys, bliss, peace and tranquility 8)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Lingyin_temple_04.jpg)
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;D The buddha statue on the forehead of this Dhritarashtra, the pipa-playing Heavenly King depicting the buddhahood of the living beings upon moderation reaches its climate of supremacy 8)
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Starbucks near a temple is no big deal. It is just an advent of business into a busy area.
It would be just a place to relax in, have a cold drink, take a rest after touring the temple and its surrounding area. It would bring in the dollars into that area, provide jobs.
The only way that the authority can keep out any other types of business that they do not want that changes the scenery, would be to disallow any type of development there, except for cultural places.
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Because the fame of temple attracted the business chain ie supermarket, kfc and now starbuck.
As long as the location not too close with the temple and destroy scenery and culture i think that should be fine.
Instead it kind of the service which provide near by the temple so that people who come to visit/pray can have places to sit and relax or discuss about buddhist related topic after visit the temple.
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How silly and petty! A coffee outlet opening can even become a subject for debate. What possible harm could an F&B outlet do to the temple? It is not even in the compound of the temple. And even if it was, so?
The holiness of a temple is not defined by its F&B outlet nor the shops in it. If it was, then temples should not even have canteens (and some serve food to visitors for a small token) and merchandise stores. It should be defined by how many monks there are who are practicing and teaching the dharma and not turn a temple into a cold museum receiving donations for its upkeep. I would be more concerned with that than what shops are in the vicinity.
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I would have taught it was a good thing for a temple or Dharma centre to have as much exposure to people as possible and Starbucks is certainly a crowd drawcard. Why not take advantage of that to spread the Dharma.
What bothers me is not that a coffee outlet decides to locate near a temple, but that it can actually spark a debate. Is the truth of the Dharma so fragile that it must insulated from anything modern and culturally different? Dharma has transcended far greater obstacles, not that Starbuck is an obstacle.
Anyway, the Buddha warned that the source of degeneration in the practice of Dharma will be from within the Sangha and not from any external factors. I think Amitabha is right to point out that is is more anti American culture. Still, I think it is reasonable for the Lingyin Temple's Administration to request that Starbucks drops the inference that it is located within temple grounds.
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I feel that many people perceived Buddhism as conservative, traditional and non-evangelistic. When there's some commercialised influence associated with Buddhism, people start to project negative views towards these methods.
These days, the way to attract people to Buddhism (especially in Vajrayana) is through other's desires, greed and attachments. Hence, many methods which may appear commercialised are being used by even highly attained lamas to bring people closer to dharma.
I am not saying that Starbucks is a way to attract people to Buddhism but rather it's a misconceived thinking that having a popular brand being in a close vicinity of a Buddhist temple is what that triggers the debate because it will commercialise Buddhism. It's possibly Starbucks' marketing tool to ride on the popularity of this temple and we live in a world where marketing plays an important role in our lives which I must sadly say it's avoidable. So let's just accept and live with the reality.
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I personally think that there is nothing wrong with Starbucks opening their branch at Lingyin. It is a tourist spot where many from around the world throng the area to worship, visit to get blessings and to view the magnificent Buddha images that's housed within the temple. Visitors can refresh themselves at Starbucks before or after visiting the Temple and it actually make a good spot for visitors to take a rest and get together instead of hanging around the temple and over-crowding it. It is actually a very good supporting facility.
But I do agree however that Starbucks should be named Starbucks Lingyin or Starbucks Lingyin Road instead of Starbucks Lingyin Temple just to not confuse the public that there may be a Starbucks within the temple's vicinity. It is only right for the Wang Shan administrative to scan and examine businesses before allowing operations in the area in order to protect the environment and culture of Lingyin Temple. Uncontrolled commercialism and modernisation may cause pollution to the beautiful surrounding of Lingyin. But having strategically planned developments and facilities around the area will be much added value and encourage more tourists to visit this beautiful temple.
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The presence of Starbucks Cafe near Linyin Temple will bring more tourists or visitors to the area. Linyin Temple would definitely welcome these Starbucks customers. More and more people will be exposed to Mahayana Buddhism at Linyin Temple. It’s a win-win situation as long as the Lingyin Administration is happy that the presence of Starbucks Cafe does not damage the environment and culture of Lingyin Temple. In fact Starbucks is part of the administration's final plan for the service area of the Linyin Temple.
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Having Starbucks near a temple becomes a debate? The Starbucks is not open inside the temple and protest about western culture encroaching into the Chinese culture via Starbucks is hilarious.
However the Starbucks is like 20mins walk away from the temple and how it can effect the temple I don't know. I think having facilities like these near the temple will bring more visitors to the temple as these coffee shops can be a good place for the visitors to rest and have a drink while visiting the temple and the west lake. It will be convenient for the visitors especially foreigners who are familiar with the brand.
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LingYin temple is one of many many great places of worship in china that I would like to re-visit.
The last time I was there it was raining the whole morning, super romantic :-*
Setting up a coffee joint near this temple, and for that matter, any place that is popular with tourists and locals , is purely a good business decision. The foundation of success for retail business is location, location and location! well there you have it! The vicinity of LingYin temple is definitely one of the most populated location.. I don't see anything wrong with this.. There is no conflict between a good business decision and spirituality..
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Whatever you do, wherever you do it and most importantly if you are making money, people will bound to stick near you. They will find all sort of ways to make money but I don't think this is the issue here. Starbucks is not in the temple's vicinity and obviously it is not under the management of the temple. When I go to temples or places for a visit, there are two things that I must have, food and toilet. :P Definitely nothing wrong with Starbucks or any other outlets located outside any temples.
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It is reported that the coffeehouse is a long distance from the temple.It is located in the tourist service area on Lingyin Road outside the temple,as part of the supporting facilities.The store has become a flash point because Lingyin Temple has an ancient history and deep cultural significance and has been a major destination for pilgrims for the past 1200years.
Really can't blame them for protesting to keep their heritage.As long as it's not in the temple vicinity and too close to the temple,it is acceptable to have shops and coffeehouses for the tourists convenience.
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I agree completely with Rihanna that this is such a small, petty issue to have a debate about let alone it being news-worthy. What difference does it make having a Coffee-outlet close to a temple! You know what should be news-worthy instead? How the temple raises funds to support itself, how it has granted the wishes of the many who have come with faith for prayers and blessings, how the community has served the temple, how its rich culture has made the temple a major destination for pilgrims over the past 1200 years. NOT whether it is right for Starbucks to be there or not. Who cares what people drink. I'm more interested in the values and significance of the temple in society and what it has done for society than a measly Starbucks outlet opening near the temple with possibility of tarnishing its rich culture. Culture progresses with time. If that was the case, its' culture would have been tarnished a long time ago, as mankind and China evolved. Culture is represented by the ethics of the community that runs the temple, it is preserved within its grounds and the people and an opening of a Starbucks outlet cannot change the culture, if it was held on strong enough.
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I am sorry but I don't see what's the point of this protest. Just because Starbucks is built near a temple doesn't make it any better or worse for anyone. Perhaps, the decor may not suit the location very much but that's it. Perhaps, the city planner was doing a very good job in allocation of commercial area around places or worship and important sites. Anyhow, I really see what's the big deal with Starbucks and in fact, I find it convenient to get my Mocha when and if I do visit the temple.
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I am of the same opinion with Rihanna that this is indeed such a petty issue to be debating over. I have been to some holy sites in India, and am sad to report that there are many stalls and peddlars situated at the main entrance to the temples and holy sites. Some peddlars cause a lot of disturbances and can be very annoying too to the visitors. So, having a Starbucks 20 minutes walk away from the temple complex is totally fine with me. Unless, the waitresses from the coffee joint start harassing the people who are doing their prayers in the temple. :)
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If we complains that Starbucks or any other coffee shops being too near to Buddhist temple, then should we also stop other tea shops around the temples too? I think it is just ridiculous..
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i feel it is nothing wrong to have a F&B outlet opened close to a temple. Can't it be that way? It is not a problem for me at all. What kind of harm a Starbucks coffee outlet can do to a temple? The way i look at it, it should not even be an issue here. Visitors can stop by for a cup of coffee before/after going to the temple. Why would it be a problem? Political issues perhaps? I don't see a problem why would monks cannot consume the coffees served to them and if i am not mistaken, the coffees are free for the holy monks. Merit collection time for Starbucks!
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I don't understand what the real issue is. Is the management trying to maintain a historical feel to the temple and it's surroundings by not allowing modern shops near its vicinity or they don't want foreign products and decor nearby?
Serving coffee near a temple does not jeopardise the spirituality of the place. It's not alcoholic. So it's not a spiritual issue.
Whatever it is, it is very petty. What's more important is how the temple spreads dharma and make a positive difference to the surrounding community.
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Its natural for a modern establishment to trigger a debate if its vying for businesses or attractions to compete witn an old establishment in this case is s buddhist temples. Some people are unable to accept due to their conservation mindset but also for a reason where social problems such as littering will happened and dirty the surrounding. This might break or affect the serenity of the temple.
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What is the big fat deal??? I'd say YES PLEASE... hit me with a double shot please!
I think it is a brilliant idea... of course Starbucks is out there to maximize their profit... but so is every other businesses any where. I actually think this is a great point of attraction for people to come to the temple knowing the wonderful convenient of getting their cup of coffee conveniently... they will hang out longer at the temple and hence this in turn allows them to explore and get blessings in the temple... why not??? So many skillful means are used to plant Dharma seeds in people... and I must say coffee is kinda of the way to go these days... Coffeee with Dharma... yummmm x
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I was informed of a Buddhist temple in China that has in plan to build a luxury boutique resort on the temple ground itself.
Buddhist tourism?
There isn't much difference with a Starbucks, or even a shopping center...
The essential is the buddhist teachings and its practice, that is the essential!
If some people need an elaborate coffee, let it be.
If others need a luxury boutique resort, let it be...
Some may ask, but where does the money go? Is it abusing temples to make profit upon their attractiveness to tourists? Is it?
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I really do not see the point or relevance in protest of ensuing "dispute" of whether is ok or not and that it should be or should not be allowed. Starbucks is a business like any other businesses. The empire is built on a business model that zooms in on a business opportunity with maximum benefits and makes a hit.
I reckon it is a win win situation merely because Starbucks will undoubtedly bring in the clientelle and vice versa. Hence I think both Starbucks and the temple will see an increase in turnover be it profit or numbers of visits.
Even if the patrons of Starbucks genuinely did not intend to visit the temple, chances are highly likely that since they are already in the neighbourhood and the famous temple is just a mere walk away, they just might! And who can resist a coffee or a mocha on a cold winter day whilst coming out of the temple grounds? ;)
What the Temple should do I feel is get in on the bandwagon so to speak and start cross promoting each other. Put flyers and pamplets in the Starbucks whilst get a promotion going with Starbucks whereby each visiting person on a certain day would get a free latte? I know its a little cheeky but hey, we are in a degenerate time and whatever it takes to "trick" the mind, why not?
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personally, i think it would benefit more people if Buddhist temples could coexist with modern facilities such as shopping malls, starbucks, coffee bean and whatnot - because it would be easier for the younger generation of people to access the temples and also for the temple to plant seeds and imprints into the minds of the shoppers. Buddhists should really be more open minded about things sometimes and focus more on benefitting others as opposed to hold on to traditions or the older way of thinking.