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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: Big Uncle on June 16, 2012, 03:00:40 PM

Title: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Big Uncle on June 16, 2012, 03:00:40 PM
What do you guys think of Western Tulkus?


Old soul: ( http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/02.21/28-elijah.html (http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/02.21/28-elijah.html) )

Ary sees himself as a bridge between East and West

By Ken Gewertz
Gazette Staff


'I'd been thinking that maybe it would be a good idea to get a Western education. I felt that by staying in the monastery, I couldn't be as beneficial in other people's lives as I wanted to be.' (Staff photo by Kris Snibbe)
When Elijah Ary was 4, he began telling his parents about a place he visited in dreams that he called "my planet."
They listened to these stories with amusement at first, attributing them to their son's power of invention. Then something happened that forced them to change their minds.

A Tibetan monk named Geshe Pema Gyaltsen visited their home in Montreal. The Arys had become converts to Buddhism several years before. Later, Elijah told his parents that the monk reminded him of a teacher he had had when he lived on "his planet," and he listed the names of others he had known there.

When Elijah's father told Geshe Gyaltsen what his son had said, the monk's response surprised him. The names Elijah had mentioned were fellow monks whom Gyaltsen had known years ago at his monastery in Tibet.

When Gyaltsen returned to India (where many Tibetan Buddhist monasteries have relocated to escape persecution by the Chinese), he began researching Elijah's stories. Four years later, he wrote to the Arys that he was certain Elijah was the reincarnation of Geshe Jatse, a Tibetan teacher and scholar who died in the mid-1950s.

A letter from the Dalai Lama confirmed Gyaltsen's conclusions and said that this was the first time someone from the Gelugpa school of Buddhism (of which the Dalai Lama is the head) had reincarnated in the West.

Now a graduate student and teaching fellow in the Study of Religion, Ary often tells his life story to his students, supplementing it with a film about him by Marcel Poulin titled "Memories From a Previous Life."

"I've shown the film a number of times at Harvard to different classes," Ary says, "and for a lot of people it's been an eye-opener. It shows them that there may be something about the world they didn't take into account, and that opens their minds and I think makes a difference in their lives for the better."

As the film makes clear, Ary's odyssey has not always been an easy one, either for him or for his family. Despite being practicing Buddhists, Ary's parents were not prepared to send their young son to study in India, as the monks of Sera monastery expected them to. For years they tried to find an alternative, seeking out less remote Buddhist centers where Ary could learn Tibetan and study Buddhist scriptures.

None of these arrangements worked out. Meanwhile, Ary continued to remember specific details of his former life, details so obscure, he says, that there was no way he could have heard or read about them.

Finally, when he was 14, his parents decided to let him go. For Ary, who had been bored in Western schools and troubled by a sense of difference, this immersion in Tibetan Buddhist studies was a revelation. He learned Tibetan in nine months, well enough to engage in high-pressure debates about the fine points of Buddhist philosophy. He also says that he could recite certain Tibetan texts by heart, despite never having seen them before.

"There are a lot of questions that have been answered in my life, and I don't see how they could be answered in any other way. So if reincarnation doesn't exist, it doesn't seem to make sense to me."

Ary remained at the monastery for six years, studying up to 14 hours a day and becoming almost completely absorbed in the world of Tibetan Buddhism.

Almost, but not quite. A part of him remained rooted in the West, and he began to wonder why he had been reincarnated here. He decided that the purpose of his life was to be a bridge between East and West.

"I'd been thinking that maybe it would be a good idea to get a Western education. I felt that by staying in the monastery, I couldn't be as beneficial in other people's lives as I wanted to be."

The Dalai Lama agreed. During a brief meeting, he told Ary: "I think you should go back and study and become a professor. You don't have to be a monk to be a good Buddhist."

Since then, Ary has reclaimed the identity he left behind. A fourth-year graduate student, married to his childhood sweetheart, and whose leisure activities include playing ice hockey and watching action films, Ary looks forward to a career teaching Buddhist and Tibetan studies.

"What I really like about students is that they constantly challenge you and challenge what the tradition has to say."

He also enjoys challenging them in turn, shaking up their preconceptions by presenting them with the story of his own life. But when he puts his personal facts before them, it is not to enhance his own spiritual authority, but rather to demonstrate that behind the seemingly mundane can lurk the miraculous.

"The important thing isn't who I was. It's what I'm doing now. If I can have a positive impact with my life this time around, then it's all the better. That's really what I'm here for."


Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Midakpa on June 16, 2012, 03:45:27 PM
This story is proof that reincarnation exists.  Ary is not the only Western tulku. I believe that there must be a purpose why more and more tulkus are being born in the West. They are in fact bridges between the East and the West, having been raised in both cultures and understanding the people, their minds and lifestyles. From the way he interacts with people, Ary seems to understand his purpose in life and the impact he can have on them.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Vajraprotector on June 16, 2012, 06:00:53 PM
Penor Rinpoche once said, "We cannot say for sure who is going to be a tulku. They return only where they are needed. And they have the freedom to take any form they want."

I think as long as they are benefitting others, it is great, after all, who are we to judge people who choose to take rebirth again and again to benefit others. These are some of the Western Tulkus I know:

Dylan Henderson, a Canadian, was the first Caucasian Tulku discovered in the West, recognised in 1975 by Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche as the incarnation of one of his teachers. The identification was confirmed by Rangjung Rigpe Dorje, the 16th Karmapa, who requested that Henderson come to the Rumtek Monastery in India for the rest of his life. Chögyam Trungpa, however, recommended that he remain in the West. Henderson maintains his Buddhist studies and practices, but without the form and structure present in the East. He has a degree in anthropology and history.

Of course we have Lama Osel, recognised first by Lama Zopa and finally by the Dalai Lama as the incarnation of FPMT’s founder, Lama Thubten Yeshe. (More info at the FPMT site: http://www.fpmt.org/fpmt/osel.html (http://www.fpmt.org/fpmt/osel.html))

Jetsunma Ahkön Lhamo, who had no contact with Tibetan Buddhism at all initially. She was teaching a meditation group in Washington, D.C., thirty-nine years old and the mother of three children, when she made contact with a Tibetan teacher, Penor Rinpoche, who subsequently recognized her as the incarnation of the "original" Ahkön Norbu Lhamo, a prominent woman teacher of the seventeenth century.  She is the Spiritual Director for Kunzang Odsal Palyul Changchub Choling, a Buddhist center in Poolesville, Maryland, which includes one of the largest communities of Western monks and nuns in North America.

Ashoka Mukpo, son of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, leads a secular life, working in the U.S. division of Human Rights Watch. Although he has not adopted the life of a Buddhist tulku, he has a thangka wall-hanging portrait of his previous incarnation, Khamyon Rinpoche, in his apartment. Ashoka was enthroned as a tulku in Tibet, and found the experience, as well as the expectations of others, very intense and at times uncomfortable. He feels his path is not to be a teacher, wearing monk's robes, but rather to help others and give back in ways appropriate to his location and culture.

Gesar Mukpo, son of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, was identified by Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche as the reincarnation of the late Shechen Kongtrul Rinpoche (the Jamgon Kongtrul of Shechen), one of his own father's teachers in Tibet. Three-year-old Gesar was then enthroned as a tulku in Berkeley, California. He lives an ordinary secular life in Halifax, Nova Scotia. He has a daughter, is separated from his wife, and is a music video director and producer. He recently wrote and directed Tulku, a documentary film that details the personal experiences of five young Western men who were identified in childhood as being tulkus, or reincarnated Tibetan Buddhist masters.

Shenpen Rinpoche was born in Western France. As a young child, Rinpoche was surprisingly interested in philosophical concepts, for example reincarnation. During an appointment with Gomo Tulku in his teens, Rinpoche was told that he was the rebirth "of a great practitioner in Tibet”, and later to be confirmed by several Lamas and an Oracle of Dharamsala as the Tulku of Lama Gendun Rabgye Of Kharnang & Sera-Je monastery. At 21 years old, Rinpoche took the full monk ordination with His Holiness the Dalaï-Lama in Dharamsala. Between 1998 & 2001, following the request of Lama Zopa Rinpoche, Shenphen Rinpoche became the director of a retreat Centre in Greece. Since 2000, Rinpoche teaches in many countries in Europe, Tibet, and India. In May 2008, following the advice of a melong-reader, Shenphen Rinpoche left his ordination and accepted to continue his work as lay Lama.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: WisdomBeing on June 16, 2012, 08:10:38 PM
This is an interesting thread.  Thanks also to Vajraprotector for the brief bios of the various western Rinpoches. I think that it is not surprising that Rinpoches reincarnate in the west. They probably have done so for millions of years but it is only recently that they have been officially recognised.

There has been much criticism of western Rinpoches, such as Lama Osel, who despite being recognised as the incarnation of such a legendary lama, he decided to return his vows and became a film maker/hippy.

Look at Steven Seagal – is he really a Tulku? He doesn’t act like one. But then HH Penor Rinpoche cannot be wrong.

In the docudrama, ‘Tulku’ by Gesar Mukpo, there is obviously a huge resistance to the monastic life by these recognised reincarnations.

I do not doubt that these are the reincarnated masters as confirmed by high lamas. I simply think that the western world is not ready for them yet so they have to adapt their presentations to suit the western world.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Klein on June 17, 2012, 05:38:09 AM
I think it does makes sense to have Western Tulkus as they can teach Buddhism to the Westerners without the mindset that only exotic and mystical Tibetans can teach Buddhism. Vajraprotector highlighted that there are already many recognised Western Tulkus for the last few decades. However, for Gelugpas this is the first.

It's most skillful for  Elijah Ary to be teaching in Harvard University after having studied in a Tibetan Buddhist monastery in India. This is where the country's brightest can have exposure to Tibetan Buddhism and be potentially instrumental in the spreading of the dharma.

This is the link to Marcel Poulin's documentary movie, Memories from a Previous Life, http://www.tenzintulku.com/index.php/en/media-appearances (http://www.tenzintulku.com/index.php/en/media-appearances)
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: sonamdhargey on June 17, 2012, 07:57:41 AM
I find it interesting that Ary said "my planet" later to find out that he is an incarnation of a Tibetan Buddhist monk. High lamas have the abilities to determined their rebirth. However some incarnate Tulku didn't continue with their path or totally refrain from monastic life in their present life. I was wondering with such attainments to choose a rebirth, why these incarnations of High Lamas didn't continue their monastic path as ordained monks to continue the doctrine? Is it because they have to use skillful means to adapt to current era and teach according to the current times?
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: WisdomBeing on June 17, 2012, 11:32:50 AM
Re the different planets, I think that there are many different worlds out there. It even says so in the Buddhist scriptures. So someone could manifest in many other places, and not just this earth as we know it.

Regarding the behaviour of certain attained monks, I do think that the attained lamas would know what to do and everything they do is pre-planned with their high level of insight. I would imagine that they would manifest in different ways specifically to accommodate the perceptions of different people. Also, they would manifest according to the karma of the people involved, for example, in cases like Lama Osel.

It is possible that Lama Osel becoming a layperson was due to the broken samaya with his students regarding Dorje Shugden.  Outwardly you see that he has given up his robes and become a layperson. Yet I hear that he is very interested in Dharma, and that when Lama Zopa was sick, he immediately went to see him. If he was so divorced from Dharma, he would not react like that.

So in summary, how the western tulkus act depends on the circumstances and not because they were not attained. It is simply our very limited view which cannot see the big picture behind these lamas.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: dondrup on June 17, 2012, 12:50:04 PM
It seems like more and more Western tulkus are appearing.  Perhaps these tulkus had chosen to appear as such to benefit the Western practitioners as Buddhism is becoming more common and is flourishing in the West.

Elijah Ary’s previous incarnation could not have been wrong in the motivation and choice of reincarnation.  Elijah Ary sees himself as a bridge between East and West.  Elijah Ary in his present form provides the Western practitioners who prefer a Western teacher than a Tibetan lama an opportunity to create an affinity with Dharma.  In other words, it is a skillful means of these tulkus.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Tammy on June 17, 2012, 01:55:30 PM
Elijah's story is not very rare, I have read n heard numerous stories of how people found their 'past life's family, remembering detailed information about their past lives, feeling a sense of deja vu when they go a completely new place, etc etc etc.

I am a firm believer of reincarnation and karma, this is the ONLY explanation to our life journey. People often ask, if there is GOD, why does this man who had done all the wrong things still get away and enjoying himself; whilst some other people who are goody-two-shoes suffer badly? The only explanation to this seemingly unfair situation is (1) reincarnation DOES exist and (2) karma is real.

As for Elijah, it does not matter to me whether he is the reincarnation of a certain lama, more importantly, I agree with what he did and reasons for him to leave the monastery to take up teaching post in the west :

"The important thing isn't who I was. It's what I'm doing now. If I can have a positive impact with my life this time around, then it's all the better. That's really what I'm here for."

If all of us embrace this statement and truly walk our talk, this world will become a better place to be.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Big Uncle on June 17, 2012, 03:35:05 PM
You know I have nothing against Western Tulkus but I just notice an undesirable trend amongst them, they resist ordination and they do very little to spread the Dharma with their status. I think it is alright for them but for many people who look up to them, it is very disheartening.

I guess ultimately, it doesn't matter if a Tulku is ordained or not as long as they work to study the Dharma and spread it with practice, sincerity and general sense of duty. However, many Western Tulkus seem to lack this and are constantly soul-searching, just like any one of us. If the Tulkus are like that, how would any of us gain faith in the Dharma and this is especially crucial in the West where most people still have very airy-fairy ideas of what Buddhism is all about.

I like Tenzin Tulku's story because although he is back in the West as a lay person, he has intentions to spread Dharma with his background of studying in the monastery and combining it with his Western education. This is a far cry of a few Tulkus who don't even have any monastic training. I think in the end of the day, there's many Tulkus who have taken all over the world and some will have to shoulder a bigger burden of carrying on the lineage and who take their responsibilities seriously.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: RedLantern on June 17, 2012, 04:01:11 PM

To date,approximately 15 western children have been sought out and recognized as lama reincarnations, known as Tulkus.The recognition of western children as Tulkus first started in the mid 1970's.This practise has created stability politically and spiritually in Tibetan socety for 800 years.but has not transferred easily into the western culture.For most of these young man there has been conflict between the modern western culture that they have been raised in and the traditional Tibetan culture of their past lives.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: thor on June 17, 2012, 05:40:16 PM
Big uncle - why undesirable? As you say, Ordination is not a necessity for a Tulku, whether western or eastern to do what they are supposed to do. What gives you the right to say that a Tulku who is not ordained, who did not enter formal study of Buddhism, who does not wear robes, who does not seem like a conventional Tulku, is any less capable or less learned than a traditional Eastern Tulku who is ordained in the monastery and enthroned since childhood.

In fact, I would argue that a western Tulku may in fact be more savvy, more street smart, more wise, and more capable of spreading the word of Buddha in the west than the traditional tibetan speaking Tulku, who is just too sheltered. No offense or disrespect meant, but who are you to say that what the Western Tulkus are doing is not suitable??
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: dsiluvu on June 17, 2012, 06:09:50 PM
What do you guys think of Western Tulkus?

"The important thing isn't who I was. It's what I'm doing now. If I can have a positive impact with my life this time around, then it's all the better. That's really what I'm here for."

I think wether they are western or not does not really matters at all... what matters is precisely as Ary stated at the end... what is He doing now. If the title Tulku will help him make his Dharma work in benefiting others flourish even more... then why not. It is after all a label to identify who you are so you can continue your great work. But if the Tulku just ends up eating, playing with video games and does not do what he is suppose to have returned to do then what is the point. They become just the same as you and me lay people.

Most important is the motivation to benefit others. How they choose do it is subjective as we've heard of so many great Mahasiddha stories who teaches in very unconventional ways. Who are we to know ands judge.

However, I've also heard that there are also many levels of Tulku... highly attained one and those that are now. Apparently the Tulkus who does not do what they are back to do usually has a shorter life here in samsara or theu may be wind off...just watch Tulku video. This makes sense because what are they here for if not to benefit others?

Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: kurava on June 18, 2012, 04:10:04 AM
Thank you for sharing this amazing story of Elijah Ary.

Buddhism challenges our ordinary concept of world, universe and time. Even when we accept past and future lives based on logical deduction, it is still quite mind boggling to think that a being can take rebirth across different time dimensions and planets !

Buddhist cosmology is beyond what we can comprehend.

Can you imagine Mount Meru ? Is it something real? What is real ? What is imagined? Why is imagination not real? If everything depends on the mind, then imagination can become real.

In Tantra, students are taught to drop ordinary conceptions; go beyond ordinary appearances - fake it till you make it. It's easy to just parrot the words; to put this into practice one needs to find a qualified Guru and practice strong Guru Devotion.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: hope rainbow on June 19, 2012, 03:34:35 PM
Only very disciplined practitioners can practice surrounded by materialistic temptations: money, food, travels, movies, beauty, shopping centers, comfort, houses, cars, music, clothes, attractive and easy girls and boys, drugs, parties, holidays, fame, entertainment of all sorts, etc...

Just as it has very hard to practice in the pretas' realm.

For practicing in a monastery is easier.
To live in an environment where there are not many other things one can do other  than either work in the fields, join the army or practice spirituality, as was Tibet until recently, seem to be an environment into which it is easier to focus, easier to practice.

Just as it is easier to focus when one is cut off from the world into a retreat.
Try meditating in a shopping center just before X'mas... not impossible, just more difficult.

Being a tulku does not mean being a Buddha. And some tulku might have taken on more than they can chew. Part of the solution, I believe, is to bring about the correct motivation, to re-generate the motivation so that the will-power, the volition allows one to arise from a worldly level of concerns.

We can do so much more for others than we can do for our self.

Easily said of course.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Vajraprotector on June 19, 2012, 04:55:03 PM
I think Western Tulkus are able to spread Dharma with background of studying in the monastery/Dharma in the Tibetan tradition and combining it with their Western education or exposure of growing up in the West.

The more popular Tulkus that I can think of right now, who are in the middle age, such as Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche of Shambhala International, he was born in Bodhgaya in 1962, but grew up in the United Kingdom and United States.

Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche was born in Bhutan in 1961. Until the age of twelve Khyentse Norbu studied at the Palace Monastery of the King of Sikkim. After leaving Sikkim, he studied at Sakya College in Rajpur, and later attended London's School of Oriental and African Studies.

Comparatively, the younger Tulkus might seem a bit "off track" right now, but may be that's the direction, that people want to relate to Dharma teachers who are "like them". When the time comes for His Holiness to enter parinirvana, I do not think people will respect Tibetans any longer, and perhaps those that are "born and bred" in the West will be more effective than a Lama that comes from mystical distant land who sits on a throne.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Big Uncle on June 20, 2012, 02:38:53 PM
Big uncle - why undesirable? As you say, Ordination is not a necessity for a Tulku, whether western or eastern to do what they are supposed to do. What gives you the right to say that a Tulku who is not ordained, who did not enter formal study of Buddhism, who does not wear robes, who does not seem like a conventional Tulku, is any less capable or less learned than a traditional Eastern Tulku who is ordained in the monastery and enthroned since childhood.

In fact, I would argue that a western Tulku may in fact be more savvy, more street smart, more wise, and more capable of spreading the word of Buddha in the west than the traditional tibetan speaking Tulku, who is just too sheltered. No offense or disrespect meant, but who are you to say that what the Western Tulkus are doing is not suitable??

I say undesirable because not a single Tulku wants to brave the trend and either get ordained or stay ordained. It sends a message that ordination is an encumbrance and not a supreme method devised by the Buddha to bring one towards enlightenment.

You are right to say that I have no right to criticize them. I don't but I can't help suppressing my opinion after watching the Tulku movie by Gesar Mukpo that features the frank opinions of several western Tulkus. I wonder what is the purpose of the movie if its not to inspire people towards the Dharma. Honestly speaking, I was not inspired at all after watching it and if I weren't already in the Dharma, I would be even less inclined towards being a student of  any of these Western Tulkus or any Tulku for that matter. I would like to go into details but I would be criticizing them personally. I would definitely not endorse watching the Tulku movie at all.

Having said that, I can't deny the possibility that these Western Tulkus could be manifesting something for people of this generation. And I noticed the movie conspicuously avoids Gelug Western Tulkus like Elijah Ary and Lama Osel.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Vajraprotector on June 20, 2012, 03:49:19 PM
Just read about another Western Tulku who doesn't want to be ordained and more interested to be a businessman! By the way, another new movie will be out about this Tulku as well.

At a young age, Yeshi is told that he is the reincarnation of his great-uncle, a famed Buddhist master who died in a Chinese-run jail. But Yeshi is more interested in becoming a Western businessman than a spiritual leader.

Seeing Tibetan culture fray under communist China's grip, Namkhai pressures his son to preserve what is left by studying and teaching Buddhism - and embracing his role as a reincarnated master.


Veteran documentary filmmaker Jennifer Fox, who also worked as Namhkai's private secretary, captures the father-son struggle over the course of 20 years in the POV film "My Reincarnation." It will be broadast June 21 on PBS.

"For all that is so interesting about Tibetan Buddhism in today's world, I was always drawn to the universal father-son struggle," Fox said. "What is extraordinary for Yeshi is that questions of personal identity become entagled in the fate of a 2,500 spiritual tradition."

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/19/buddhist-father-son-struggle-gives-life-to-reincarnation-documentary_n_1606229.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/19/buddhist-father-son-struggle-gives-life-to-reincarnation-documentary_n_1606229.html)


More info about Yeshi Norbu/Khyentse Yeshe:

Khyentse Yeshe (Yeshi Silvano Namkhai), son and student of Chögyal Namkhai Norbu was born in Italy in 1970. He received Christian and Buddhist education, studying philosophy and computer science. He then went on to work in the field of modern technologies.
 
H.H. Sakya Trizin recognized YSN at birth as the reincarnation of Chögyal Namkhai Norbu’s maternal uncle, Khyentse Rinpoche Chökyi Wangchug, giving him the name Jamyang Chökyi Nyima. In 2007, Yeshi went to Tibet and accepted his duty to help and support monastery in central Tibet.
 
Recently he is more and more dedicating his life to the future of Dzogchen Community founded by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu, following his Teacher instructions and fulfilling the wishes of his students.
 
YSN’s style is open and simple; he promotes fresh and spontaneous interest talking directly and helping to enter the essence of Buddhist teachings and to discover one’s real nature.
 
During the last three years, YSN has given many public talks and teaching sessions in all Europe, Russia, Ukraine, USA, Mexico, Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina and Australia. YSN actively collaborates with many Universities, Museums and Institues involved in the Tibetan Culture and Buddhist knowledge.

From: http://myreincarnationfilm.com/film/yeshi-namkhai/ (http://myreincarnationfilm.com/film/yeshi-namkhai/)
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Jessie Fong on June 22, 2012, 07:14:22 AM
Whether Tulkus reincarnate in the Western world or any other parts of the world does not matter.  What matters is what the Tulku is here to achieve - obviously it is the spread of Dharma. In this age where the younger generation is more exposed to other cultures, it does well to be born in their midst to be able to "blend" in with that crowd, to teach them in a way that is best suitable to their mind set.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Big Uncle on June 22, 2012, 08:42:14 PM
Whether Tulkus reincarnate in the Western world or any other parts of the world does not matter.  What matters is what the Tulku is here to achieve - obviously it is the spread of Dharma. In this age where the younger generation is more exposed to other cultures, it does well to be born in their midst to be able to "blend" in with that crowd, to teach them in a way that is best suitable to their mind set.

Well, that's why Tulkus who have been recognized early on and they don't take up their spiritual responsibilities causes great harm to the teachings. That is because all eyes are looking towards the Tulku and there's a certain expectation that needs to be fulfilled.

If they choose a mundane life instead of one that will not only disappoint devotees but also other people who would be disenchanted with the whole Tulku system. That's why I think if Tulkus are to be enthroned, they should have a good Lama to teach and guide him. Not all Tulkus are that highly attained that they will find their own way. It is very, very rare to find Tulkus of that calibre these days.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Ensapa on June 25, 2012, 08:04:09 AM
Well, that's why Tulkus who have been recognized early on and they don't take up their spiritual responsibilities causes great harm to the teachings. That is because all eyes are looking towards the Tulku and there's a certain expectation that needs to be fulfilled.

If they choose a mundane life instead of one that will not only disappoint devotees but also other people who would be disenchanted with the whole Tulku system. That's why I think if Tulkus are to be enthroned, they should have a good Lama to teach and guide him. Not all Tulkus are that highly attained that they will find their own way. It is very, very rare to find Tulkus of that calibre these days.


There are a few different kinds of tulkus. There are the high ones that will find a way to come back and benefit others even if their incarnation is banned or if they reincarnate in the western world, they will still find a way to go back to the lineage that they belong to and become a skilled Lama. An example of this would be Lama Michel Rinpoche (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=8086 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=8086)) where he was able to reconnect with his lineage and was able to undergo monastic training voluntarily. These lamas are really attained, and their attainments are carried with them from life after life and no obstacles can truly stop them from benefitting others.

Then, there are the tulkus who was recognized at a very old age and refuse to return to the monastery to continue to their studies but become more interesting in samsaric matters. Some tulkus recognized this way can still enter the monastery and benefit, but a majority of them will not and to top it all off, they will do little to no work to benefit others so it is very hard for anyone to say that they manifested this way to benefit others. I personally know someone who has been recognized by the Dalai Lama as a tulku, he was born in 1979 and a singaporean. He refused to go back to the monastery, citing that he would like to reach out others to the Dharma via other things like preserving the environment. I do not sense that he is dharmic at all. I do not feel that he has been practicing well at all as he got jealous of someone who was younger than him opening a center and has bad mouthed that person in a few ways. It really shocked me that a tulku can act in this way. After some feedback from his friends, i realized that the real reason why he would not go back to the monastery was because he was addicted to certain pleasures and that made me really feel disappointed on how did a tulku turned out to be this way? Are they not supposed to be more dharmic and resilient than all of us?

I really do hope that I am wrong but this experience has really made me not respect tulkus based on their recognition and title given to them by HHDL or some other high lama, but purely on their deeds alone. If they take no or little action to benefit others, why should i respect them as tulkus?
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Positive Change on June 25, 2012, 10:43:41 AM
Big uncle - why undesirable? As you say, Ordination is not a necessity for a Tulku, whether western or eastern to do what they are supposed to do. What gives you the right to say that a Tulku who is not ordained, who did not enter formal study of Buddhism, who does not wear robes, who does not seem like a conventional Tulku, is any less capable or less learned than a traditional Eastern Tulku who is ordained in the monastery and enthroned since childhood.

In fact, I would argue that a western Tulku may in fact be more savvy, more street smart, more wise, and more capable of spreading the word of Buddha in the west than the traditional tibetan speaking Tulku, who is just too sheltered. No offense or disrespect meant, but who are you to say that what the Western Tulkus are doing is not suitable??

I agree with you Thor on this. There is I find a preconceived notion of how a Tulku should be and because the times are changing, maybe these Tulkus' methods are also evolving.

As much as there is a outward difference in the western Tulkus so to speak, I think their motivation remains steadfast. Perhaps their outward nature gives an "impression" which is not the norm and therefore people are quick to judge. However I think as you say Thor, they are in fact more street smart, savvy (internet, social media, etc) and language wise a lot easier to spread the Dharma to the west.

No disrespect to traditional Tulkus but the world is changing fast and degeneration is upon us, it is time for a huge renaissance in Buddhism and the methods to spread should reflect the times.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Dorje Pakmo on June 25, 2012, 12:47:41 PM
Big uncle - why undesirable? As you say, Ordination is not a necessity for a Tulku, whether western or eastern to do what they are supposed to do. What gives you the right to say that a Tulku who is not ordained, who did not enter formal study of Buddhism, who does not wear robes, who does not seem like a conventional Tulku, is any less capable or less learned than a traditional Eastern Tulku who is ordained in the monastery and enthroned since childhood.

In fact, I would argue that a western Tulku may in fact be more savvy, more street smart, more wise, and more capable of spreading the word of Buddha in the west than the traditional tibetan speaking Tulku, who is just too sheltered. No offense or disrespect meant, but who are you to say that what the Western Tulkus are doing is not suitable??


I agree with you Thor on this. There is I find a preconceived notion of how a Tulku should be and because the times are changing, maybe these Tulkus' methods are also evolving.

As much as there is a outward difference in the western Tulkus so to speak, I think their motivation remains steadfast. Perhaps their outward nature gives an "impression" which is not the norm and therefore people are quick to judge. However I think as you say Thor, they are in fact more street smart, savvy (internet, social media, etc) and language wise a lot easier to spread the Dharma to the west.

No disrespect to traditional Tulkus but the world is changing fast and degeneration is upon us, it is time for a huge renaissance in Buddhism and the methods to spread should reflect the times.


Ary sees himself as a bridge between East and West
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/02.21/28-elijah.html (http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/02.21/28-elijah.html)


There must be a reason why the Tulkus are reincarnated at certain places and in this case, the West. The way I see it, probably Elijah Ary in his previous life as Geshe Jatse out of compassion, made a prayer to take rebirth in a place where Dharma is scarce so that he can benefit the people there by giving them the Dharma.

With the world evolving so quickly and with all the technology available, human beings are becoming more attached to their worldly possessions, it gets harder and harder for people to even spend a little  of their precious time for spiritual development, which is in actuality  the most important thing during one’s fortunate rebirth as a human. 

So, the western Tulkus who chooses not to be ordained and wear robes probably has their own valid reason in doing so. I would think maybe this approach makes the students/disciples comfortable and easier to accept the teaching. We have come to an age so degenerated, that out of kindness; the Holy ones chose to come down to our level to give us the Dharma. It will be hard for the Western people to even know the Dharma not to mention learning it if all Tulkus reincarnates in the East. It will make things even harder, due to the difference of cultural background and language. And oh yes… reincarnation exist, whether we like it or not
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Vajraprotector on June 25, 2012, 01:11:01 PM
It really shocked me that a tulku can act in this way. After some feedback from his friends, i realized that the real reason why he would not go back to the monastery was because he was addicted to certain pleasures and that made me really feel disappointed on how did a tulku turned out to be this way? Are they not supposed to be more dharmic and resilient than all of us?

I really do hope that I am wrong but this experience has really made me not respect tulkus based on their recognition and title given to them by HHDL or some other high lama, but purely on their deeds alone. If they take no or little action to benefit others, why should i respect them as tulkus?

Tulkus may have achieved some level of spiritual attainment ranging from part of the generation stage to Buddhahood, hence only a tiny fraction of and not all Tulkus are enlightened beings.  So, some of these Tulkus have negative karmic potentials in addition to a vast network of positive instincts.

From Alexander Berzin's 'Wise Teacher, Wise Student: Tibetan Approaches to a Healthy Relationship':

Depending on the circumstances of their upbringing and the societies in which they live, different potentials come to the fore and ripen in each lifetime. Thus, some tulkus may act in completely unenlightened ways.

Nevertheless, by the force of the death-juncture meditation and prayers of the founders of their lines, their next incarnations may still be as rinpocheys, located and recognized by the masters who have determined that to do so would have special benefit.


Sometimes, it's not the Tulkus themselves who want to be recognised nor to be respected, but rather the masters who recognise them know that there will be benefit in recognising these Tulkus, perhaps for the public or even for the Tulkus themselves, we do not know what these great masters think. We cannot judge a Tulku, especially the young ones who may seem very attached to samsara, but perhaps these experiences will be of use to them later in life when they become great teachers, or social workers, or leaders in their communities. 
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: bambi on June 27, 2012, 04:24:43 AM
Its a wonderful and sad news altogether because Elijah chose to go back to the west to continue whatever he left behind but at the same time he is teaching Buddhism to the westerners and those who are interested in his own way.

I am very sure that these highly attained incarnations take on the form in the west because they would like to 'penetrate' the western world and you know what, in future we can have teachings without translator!  :o

I look at it this way, whether or not they choose to be a monk in the monastery or a layperson, they have their reasons for it. Maybe for something bigger in the future?  ??? As you can see below, they only return when needed and in any form they find easy to benefit us.

Some of the points I find relevant to this topic.

"The first Western tulkus were actually only half-Western: the sons of Tibetans who had married Western women. But there are presently about a dozen or so tulkus who are completely Western. The best-known are probably Lama Osel, who is Spanish, and the American woman, Jetsunma Ahkön Lhamo. They were both recognized in 1987, but the circumstances of their recognition could hardly have been more different. Lama Osel's parents were students practicing in the tradition. In fact, their teacher, Lama Yeshe, was recognized (first by Lama Zopa, Lama Yeshe's principal Tibetan student and himself a tulku, and finally by the Dalai Lama) as having reincarnated as their son. This is about as "official" as you can get. Jetsunma, on the other hand, had no contact with Tibetan Buddhism at all. She was teaching a meditation group in Washington, D.C., thirty-nine years old and the mother of three children, when she made contact with a Tibetan teacher, Penor Rinpoche, who subsequently recognized her as the incarnation of the "original" Ahkön Norbu Lhamo, a prominent woman teacher of the seventeenth century. Of course, adult tulkus are unheard of in Tibet; it just never happens. Yet as Penor Rinpoche said, "We cannot say for sure who is going to be a tulku. They return only where they are needed. And they have the freedom to take any form they want."

And it is Western Buddhist teachers who are doing this. Of course, there have been, and still are, excellent Eastern teachers who have adapted to the special conditions that they found in the West. But Eastern teachers, however good they might be, are bound to remain Eastern; we might even say "foreign," to some extent. A culture needs people from within, so to speak, in order to make any import its own. And the inverse of this principle also holds: Westerners, however good they are, have to learn Buddhism from the "outside." This creates difficulties of its own. Yet the fact remains that there are Western Buddhist teachers who are transmitting the Dharma in a way that is quite as authentic as that of Eastern teachers."
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: biggyboy on June 27, 2012, 08:24:21 AM
Incarnation definitely exist in its own way where many Tulkus incarnate in the land of red hair where Buddhism will rise much more for we needed most at this present times.  They incarnate at their own will for they would see the need to be there. Whether they take on the robes as an ordained monk or not is not for us to judge (due to our limited views and projections) for they have their reasons to do so.  They have their ways to attract and bring people onto the spiritual path and connection.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Vajraprotector on June 27, 2012, 05:48:51 PM
After all the discussion, I am of the opinion that we shouldn't doubt young Tulkus who seemed to have 'lost their ways'. Perhaps newer methods are needed with fresh approach.

For example, Gesar Mukpo might not have carved his name in the Buddhist teacher arena for now, but his documentary is being well received and he has appeared in press and known for his work of his (first!) documentary. For example, he has been featured in The Guardian, Saturday 14 April 2012 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/apr/14/western-tulku-buddhist-film-festival (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/apr/14/western-tulku-buddhist-film-festival)) and his message to introduce reincarnated Lamas and their struggles is a fresh approach and reaches many more masses than a traditional Tibetan Budhist audience.

There's also a good question in one of the articles "What does it mean to carry on a role designed for an old world when you're living in a completely new one? " I believe we shouldn't judge Gesar and other Western tulkus on how they will fulfill their destiny, because unlike us, they have planned their 'destiny' and it is no other than bringing Dharma and help to sentient beings.
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Ensapa on June 28, 2012, 12:45:19 PM
It really shocked me that a tulku can act in this way. After some feedback from his friends, i realized that the real reason why he would not go back to the monastery was because he was addicted to certain pleasures and that made me really feel disappointed on how did a tulku turned out to be this way? Are they not supposed to be more dharmic and resilient than all of us?

I really do hope that I am wrong but this experience has really made me not respect tulkus based on their recognition and title given to them by HHDL or some other high lama, but purely on their deeds alone. If they take no or little action to benefit others, why should i respect them as tulkus?

Tulkus may have achieved some level of spiritual attainment ranging from part of the generation stage to Buddhahood, hence only a tiny fraction of and not all Tulkus are enlightened beings.  So, some of these Tulkus have negative karmic potentials in addition to a vast network of positive instincts.

From Alexander Berzin's 'Wise Teacher, Wise Student: Tibetan Approaches to a Healthy Relationship':

Depending on the circumstances of their upbringing and the societies in which they live, different potentials come to the fore and ripen in each lifetime. Thus, some tulkus may act in completely unenlightened ways.

Nevertheless, by the force of the death-juncture meditation and prayers of the founders of their lines, their next incarnations may still be as rinpocheys, located and recognized by the masters who have determined that to do so would have special benefit.


Sometimes, it's not the Tulkus themselves who want to be recognised nor to be respected, but rather the masters who recognise them know that there will be benefit in recognising these Tulkus, perhaps for the public or even for the Tulkus themselves, we do not know what these great masters think. We cannot judge a Tulku, especially the young ones who may seem very attached to samsara, but perhaps these experiences will be of use to them later in life when they become great teachers, or social workers, or leaders in their communities.

Well, the tulku in question is a social worker, and he does have much influence in the environmental group that he is part of. Just that his claim that he is close with the local deities and him being jobless for a year but still have money to travel is a result of the local earth deities giving him money make me feel a bit odd. Isnt that something that one should keep private and not flaunt? I am just hoping that his movement for the environment would benefit from his involvement, however he chooses to benefit people. Perhaps in more ways than one, there are reasons for him to behave in this way and to manifest in this way and to not teach.

I do not want to judge, but that little encounter left a very bad taste in my mouth as him being a tulku he showed a very bad example. What happens when he tells other people that he is a tulku and then he behaves in this way and it turns people away from Buddhism?

But it does make sense when you explained that not all tulkus are enlightened beings and some of them do have negative potentials and it depends on environment. I guess this is what they mean when they say that tulkus that enter the monastery too late will be "dirty" and they will need to undergo special retreats to purify them. Higher level tulkus can perhaps overcome those easily without much problems as they have higher instincts.

I have also heard of tulku disease as well. Apparently, if a tulku is born in a condition where he is unable to benefit anyone at all, he will manifest insanity or a short life and pass on early so that he can do more in his next life rather than wasting time in the current life but so far there are very little stories of these stories. Anyone has further info on this? or it is just a myth?
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Vajraprotector on June 28, 2012, 04:45:29 PM
I have also heard of tulku disease as well. Apparently, if a tulku is born in a condition where he is unable to benefit anyone at all, he will manifest insanity or a short life and pass on early so that he can do more in his next life rather than wasting time in the current life but so far there are very little stories of these stories. Anyone has further info on this? or it is just a myth?


I have only read about this in relations to Taggie, or Tagtrug Mukpo, the oldest son of the Vidyadhara, Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche and Lady Diana Mukpo, born in 1971.

a)
‘When His Holiness the Sixteenth Gyalwa Karmapa visited, he suggested that *Taggie come to stay with him at Rumtek monastery in Sikkim; he thought Taggie might be suffering from what the Tibetans call "tulku's disease," and that the monastic environment and His Holiness's attention might bring benefit.’

From: A Brief History of Tagtrug Mukpo's Life, http://taggiemukpo.org/index.php?page=brief-history-of-taggie-s-life (http://taggiemukpo.org/index.php?page=brief-history-of-taggie-s-life)


b) Taggie had gone through many health problems while he was young. He suffers many epileptic seizures, and there were no conclusive diagnosis after many visits to many specialists. At that time also, Taggie developed fears and when he saw pictures of Mahakalas, he would go crazy, screaming, sobbing and running away despite always being a happy child.

It was said that one of the Taggie's predecessors, one of the earlier Tenga Rinpoche. have made a fatal error in relating to the mahakala srines at his monastery. He ignored the regulations and advice of senior monks and uncover the painting of a particular deity at a time that was forbidden. After that, he apparently went mad.

‘In any case, taggie became extremely afraid of the wrathful deities, and we thought perhaps it was related to the tulku disease that His Holiness was telling us was a product of not allowing him to be brought up in the monastery.’

From: Page 191, Dragon Thunder: My Life with Chögyam Trungpa, by Diana J. Mukpo, Carolyn Rose Gimian

Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Dondrup Shugden on February 22, 2015, 06:55:43 AM
A detailed story of the life of a Tulku reincarnated in the Western World.  Does that make him less a practitioner than his previous life? 

From the story the answer is definitely not.  This story and the rest by our kind contributors show that attained being will manifest in any form at the right time for the right purpose.  The main purpose is always to benefit others with the Dharma.

Attained beings choose their rebirth where, when and who. They have total control over their rebirth.

During Shakymuni's time, He taught 84,000 times in accordance to the need for knowledge of his disciples.  In the Dharma text it is also stated the Buddhas will appear in any form that will be beneficial to sentient beings with quoted examples of even insane beings, handicapped etc. 
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: psylotripitaka on June 09, 2015, 07:20:54 AM
TULKUS IN GENERAL, & SOME WORDS ABOUT DAVID GONSALEZ OF DECHEN LING PRESS

I would like to point out that a 'tulku' is not always going to be recognized via the 'tulku system' or at all for that matter, and that this idea that their only purpose is to promote Dharma is incorrect. There are 1000's of tulkus all over this planet and they are engaged in the bodhisattvas way of life both within and outside of the Dharma community, and those who did not complete the path in their previous life are continuing to work to that end, mostly in private. It is also the case that there are tulkus who due to some loss of mindfulness during the final stages of the rebirth process lost some memory of what they were doing, and in this new life reconnect with Dharma and continue their training. It is said by highly attained Yogis that sometimes tulkus do not know they're a Tulku because of this, but that the profundity of their training coming back powerfully and quickly is a clear indication of their continuity of previous training that was held by mindfulness almost all the way through the birth process! So I think people need to relax a little bit about the tulku recognition thing.

I would like to mention here that the translator from Dechen Ling Press, the late great Yogi Lotsawa Je Losang Tsering (aka David Gonsalez) was a tulku. This was privately acknowledged by many Lamas including but not limited to Geshe Khyenrabje, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso Rinpoche, Lama Zopa Rinpoche, Rilbur Rinpoche, and Trijang Dorjechang's attendant and scribe Gelong Losang Choepel. I will share a couple things about this Yogi Lotsawa you may find inspiring, particularly because he was from a normal American upbringing.

He was able to continue his practice for many lifetimes consecutively as a Tibetan monk and was a close disciple of various lineage Gurus such as Je Sonam Tsemo, and especially the late Trijang Dorjechang. During his immediate former life he died during a bombardment that caused an avalanche. Prior to his rebirth as an American boy, he went on holiday to Tushita. This is not embellishment, but from both his dream journals, his own mouth to me, and confirmed by Je Losang Choepel. His purpose in coming to the West is self-evident from the legacy he left behind, not only of his life as a Yogi and Dharma Teacher, but especially his translated works available at Dechen Ling Press. What is available on the site is actually only about half of what he actually translated but never released!!

Palden Lhamo holds the skullcup of an incessed-born child. There's a whole story, but basically, this Yogi, the late Losang Tsering David Gonsalez in a previous lifetime was the actual incessed-born son of the woman that became Palden Lhamo!! In his most recent incarnation as Je Tsering, he had very special visions, dreams, and confirmations from Lamas in this regard, and a very special connection to her practice and performed her Kangso for many many years every day without fail. Once during invocation of Palden Lhamo, thousands of black birds descended on his house. It is well known that she often appears as crows and ravens and it is a commitment of her Jenang not to criticize these birds. So thousands of them descended on his home in Seattle and were cawing so loud he couldn't even hear himself reciting the JHO mantra. He looked out his small gompa window to see his whole backyard and fig tree covered with the birds, and on turning back to his puja table found a stack of 12 small red blessing cords on his sadhana that were not there prior to the invocation. 12 is related to the 12 Tenma in Palden Lhamo's retinue. They bestowed a gift!

Also, his previous incarnation was friends with Gelong Losang Choepel who is still alive today, and they agreed to rebuild Je Choepel's monastery together. He died though, and took rebirth as David Gonsalez, and through auspicious occurrences re-connected with Je Losang Choepel and they worked together to fulfill the previous agreement and rebuilt Ganden Kachoe Monastery!! There are many other interesting and magical connections and auspicious occurrences regarding these two Lamas but I'll leave it at that.

Je Losang Tsering lived a very normal American life for many years and even as a practitioner early on was like a humble and quiet hermit working away at retreats and ngondro prior to meeting Je Losang Choepel. After they met, he learned Tibetan and went very deeply into his training. Not only did he translate many things, or complete the ngondro and many fully qualified retreats and fire pujas, he actually completed the generation stage and was a completion stage Yogi working on the final stages beyond isolated speech. To this great Master, I bow respectfully and thank you for showing us that with effort many great things can definitely be achieved!
Title: Re: Story of a Western Tulku
Post by: Dondrup Shugden on June 10, 2015, 10:42:23 AM
Good to know that although these special westerners are recognised Tulkus, it is our perception of what at Tulku should do, that puts questions into their recognition and enthronement. 

Especially the story of David Gonsalez, with all the works that he has translated, it is possible for many who do not read Tibetan to have the access to the Dharma.

As mentioned before, all attained beings will incarnate in forms and places that best suit the propagation of the Dharma.