dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Namdrol on May 05, 2012, 12:40:02 AM
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An amazing account in this book mentions that the Chinese patriotic education work team actually demanded the monks in some monastery to worship Shugden (because it is banned by the Dalai Lama), this must be the real reason behind the Dalai Lama's ban, and this is what this website dorjeshugden.com has been advocating always, to make Shugden big in China...the truth is surfacing!!!
(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/woeser1.jpg)
(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/woeser2.jpg)
Woeser, a quarter-Han and three quarters-Tibetan, was born in Lhasa. Her grandfather was an officer in the Nationalist Army of the Kuomintang and her father was a high rank Army officer in the People's Liberation Army. When she was a small child, her family relocated to the Kham area of western Sichuan province. In 1988, she graduated from Southwest University for Nationalities in Chengdu with a degree in Chinese literature. She worked as a reporter in Kardzé and later in Lhasa and has lived in Beijing since 2003 as a result of political problems. Woeser is married to Wang Lixiong, a renowned author who frequently writes about Tibet. According to Reporters sans frontières, "Woeser is one of the few Tibetan authors and poets to write in Chinese."
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Hahaha! We could have seen this coming. It is just a matter of time that the Chinese would come clean with this. They are doing it covertly now and perhaps later, they will be more open and forceful about this especially when the Dalai Lama is not with us anymore. The Chinese would do anything to break the independent spirt of the Tibetan people, which appears to be embodied by their belief in the Dalai Lama.
In that way, the Dalai Lama is very skillful and he foresaw what the Chinese would do for Dorje Shugden. Some would argue it was shrewdness and some would say it was clairvoyance of Chenrezig. It doesn't matter. Through his ban alone created so much hype and promotion that no pujas or marketing team could have brought Dorje Shugden to the world in such a quick manner. That means the Dalai Lama have never forsaken his lineage and Lamas. In fact, he risked everything for it.
He knew many Shugden practitioners would have to 'suffer' for Dorje Shugden to grow big. Some would argue that he is not very compassionate. Real practitioners will say that he is very skillful and that he was working for a bigger picture to be realized. Whatever the viewpoint, the Dalai Lama would be remembered by the results of his actions.
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It is very fortunate though that the Dalai Lama is knowledgeable, skillfull and qualified and picked Dorje Shugden. It shows who the Dala Lama really is. It shows that he is applying his bodhisattva vows, it is clear.
This makes me very happy!
There is much more to come, much more!
I am so impatient now...
let's see what the Panchen Lamas do.
Let's see what Trijang Rinpoche does in the years to come...
Let's see, and let's get involved, this is our golden opportunity!
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Wow, many people must be rejoicing from within!
After reading this thread, the first thought that came to mind is: the Dharma can only cause benefit irregardless of how "crazy" the scenario may look to the naked eye. Despite the suffering that many had to go through as a consequence of the ban, I believe that they understood the works of the 3 Jewels and held fast onto their faith that good will eventually come out of the entire controversy.
As Dharma practitioners, we learn that suffering is the best way to purify our negative karma. In fact, it is said by some that the opportunity to suffer for others is a blessing in disguise. Thus, those who suffered for all sentient beings during the ban contributed to creating the cause of our beloved Protector's practice to flourish to new parts of the world. Imagine the merits they would collect based on the law of cause and effect! I rejoice for them and thank them sincerely. I also pray that they will witness the lift of the ban and the entry of Lord Dorje Shugden's practice into mainstream Buddhadharma.
In the meantime, in addition to prayers, action must be taken NOW. So, I thank the website team for creating this constructive space for each of us to learn and TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION to cause the end to the ban.
I look forward to the day when Dorje Shugden is known to and practiced by millions of Chinese passionately and openly.
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I always believe the 'ban' is HHDL's way to spread the practice of Dorje Shugden. Now the more powerful force in the mainland had taken the 'bait' and act accordingly, although the way they force the monks to practice DS is unpleasant, it could be viewed as a form of purification for those who has, thus far, refused to start the practice. In time to come, i am sure the great protector will set foot in China, benefiting billions of people.
For now, let's do our part and to pray for the swift lifting of the ban..
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Obviously, the Dalai Lama who has the bigger vision of preserving Dorje Shugden lineage orchestrated the controversies of Dorje Shugden at all cost to make sure it remains and continuously benefit mankind in this world. Tibet may be lost to the Chinese but Dorje Shugden shall continue to remain and benefit many by the skillfulness of Dalai Lama. Isn't this the most important reason for preserving Dorje Shugden's teaching?
Tibetans and Tibetan Lamas can come and go. Today they can be Tibetans but next life they can be Chinese in China or elsewhere in the world that is most conducive to continue the lineage and practice if it is safely preserved. Hence in the next era it may be Chinese upholding and preserving the lineage who were ex-Tibetan shudgenpas in their previous lives.
" ...........Therefore, Shariputra, in emptiness, there is no form, no feeling, no perception, no formation, no consciousness; no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind; no appearance, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, .................."
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Hahaha yaaay, then what we say about His Holiness The Dalai Lama creating this ban is for a bigger picture is correct. Yes, the truth is surfacing! It showed us how skilful and compassionate HHDL is. China will do everything against HHDL and by the ban China will demand that the monks and the lay people worship Dorje Shugden. Just imagine with such a big population in China, Dorje Shugden will spread and flourish like wild fire!
Let us do our part and help expedite the lifting of the ban :)
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It is unsurprising that the Chinese patriotic would force the monks to worship Shugden because it would mean the monks are defying Dalai Lama and that is their intention. To get people to denounce the Dalai Lama. To them practicing Shugden showcase that.
The clairvoyance of Dalai Lama has seen this coming and I so wish CTA and anti-Shugden would see this and realise that Dorje Shugden is no where near a dying practice but spreading like wild fire. As long as the Chinese do not see through HHDL's intentions.
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Dear Namdrol
This is really an amazing piece of news! Goodness… I’m gobsmacked and impressed that you managed to find this gem! I’m curious if you just stumbled on it or somebody told you about it.
Anyway, back to this issue, I do agree with Tammy in that I am not thrilled about the Chinese authorities’ forcing monks to worship Dorje Shugden. Coercion of any form to follow any spiritual path simply does not sit well with me. However, coercion to stop people from following a spiritual path – i.e. the ban – sits worse with me.
If the Chinese authorities can attempt to force monks to worship Dorje Shugden, I wonder if they would help to promote Dorje Shugden more openly, such as sponsor the building of large and grand public Dorje Shugden temples in the main cities like Beijing and Shanghai. Superficially, wouldn’t these temples be a so-called ‘slap’ to HH the Dalai Lama? China should so do this! LOL
Aurore - i am sure the Chinese authorities read this website and i do wonder what they think of the bigger picture hypothesis. Perhaps they should come in and chat or perhaps they do already. Wouldn't it be cool if the CTA and the Chinese authorities started a discussion here!
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It comes as a no surprise that the China Government is promoting Shugden because as always against the Dalai Lama and what he does. So, when the Dalai Lama discourages Shugden Practice, the China government will push for it to spread even wider. This is because the people will follow what their leaders says as they were under communist rule for a long time. Now, there is evidence that the government is doing it openly!!
Whether this is what the Dalai Lama wanted or not, i choose to believe that it is done out of his clairvoyance. Because the Dalai Lama is able to see what good this ban entails. Billions of Chinese will practice Dorje Shugden, Promotion of Dorje Shugden will be done more aggressively and attract attention of media and the world. And when the ban is lifted, we already have a movement of practitioners to spread it even further and wider. How clever!
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Please note the publication is referring to terrible and sad events of May 2008. Violent beatings for various matters still continue to the present 2012. We may not fathom the thinking that has inspired all these actions.
May the light of the Dharma spread in the 10 directions and especially to all suffering beings in China.
May the suffering of the Chinese/Tibetans/Minorities/Foreigners/etc who reside within those borders dwindle away and may greater understanding and peace between them arise, never diminish and always grow.
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Thank you, Namdrol, for this amazing piece of evidence that the bigger picture is already unfolding. Yes, it's not surprising that skillful and compassionate Chenrezig would have engineered this. Though the spread of Shugden practice is on a small scale here and at the expense of the suffering of the monks being violently coerced to practice Shugden,yet the result or effect is there for all to see.The Chinese are, indeed, playing into the skillful hands of the Dalai Lama.
Thus, we must always remind ourselves of the advice of Trijang Rinpoche (in Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors) that we should not take sides in this controversy and be judgemental and critical of the Dalai Lama because we , ordinary beings cannot fathom the ways and means of Enlightened Beings.The ban has had its desired result in this case, even though at the expense of much suffering.
Being heartened by this latest piece of information,we must now engage earnestly and urgently in positive steps and peaceful means to create great causes for the ban to be lifted soon.The practice of Dorje Shugden must swiftly grow and spread far and wide as he is the Dharma Protector of the unmistaken fully complete Gelugpa/Je Tsongkapa's teachings,so necessary for this final period of Buddha's Teachings. This forum and this website have always been pointing the way.Let's support it all the way.
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The next chapter is indeed unfolding before our eyes... The "ground work" or the foundations set by HHDL is coming to fruition. I feel this is the turning point whereby we will start seeing a more visible push towards Dorje Shugden practice in China. I am sure this would only increase in the future...
Truly using skillful means to fuel the delusions which garners positive results in the long run or bigger picture. Surely the spread of Dorje Shugden practice in China will spearhead a domino effect throughout the globe. After all, where else in every single major and minor city is there the prevalent Chinese Culture so intact so much so when they see their "richer" cousin moving into this direction, they will surely follow suit!
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Maybe it is just me, I was thinking.. could it be that the Shugden practitioners suffered tremendously for the ban is actually to purify the negative karma of the Chinese to receive the practice of Dorje Shugden. However I was also thinking the holy Sanghas were the larger group that suffered from this ban, it simply means the karma of the Chinese receiving the practice is tremendous. If I am right, this is really His Holiness exuding real compassion for the Chinese. Ironically, the more His Holiness go against the practice, the more the Chinese will pick it up.
We see it coming, of course we Dorje Shugden practitioners are anxious about lifting the ban soon. However, over the months, the practice was actually encouraged in China. It takes time for the practice to grow but it is growing. I am very happy that the Chinese has the honour to be able to receive the king. Afterall, Dorje Shugden has a strong karmic relations with the Chinese.
Soon, they will see the benefits.
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This is really a great piece of news to rejoice. I am not surprise that the Chinese will promote directly or indirectly Dorje Shugden practice as HH Dalai Lama is against this practice.
Furthermore, the Chinese cultural is rich and they have been handed down from thousand of years ago. They even have a beautiful huge Lama Tsongkhapa statue in Yong He Gong.
No doubt, there are a lot of monks, Tibetans and Dorje Shugden practitioners having to go through lots of hardship and sufferings. I have been taught that for something great that is tremendously beneficial to manifest, there will be more and greater obstacles to overcome before its manifestation. Reason being the clearing of the negative karmas of the people and sentient beings who are going to benefit.
I have also seen how some great masters have to endure sickness or great obstacles before giving any dharma talk or while spear heading great dharma projects.
May all these sufferings and hardship pay off with the lifting of the ban and the growth of Dorje Shugden practice.
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HH Dalai Lama had understood the mentality of the Chinese Government knowing that whatever HH Dalai lama does, the Chinese Government would do the opposite. Hence to make Dorje Shugden very famous and spread far and wide especially in the mainland China, HH Dalai Lama had initiated the ban on Dorje Shugden. HH Dalai Lama had to sacrifice many including his own reputation to make this a reality. If Woeser’s report about monks in Polha monastery (and later being extended to universities nationwide in China) were demanded to worship Shugden is true, then HH Dalai Lama’s brilliant plan is finally working! We shall see that the truth of the bigger picture behind the ban on Dorje Shugden revealing, and soon the ban shall be lifted!
I agree with WidomBeing and Tammy that forcing monks against their will to practise Dorje Shugden is unpleasant and inappropriate. HH Dalai Lama is Chenrezig and has the clairvoyance to know all these ‘negative’ impact the ban on Dorje Shugden will bring about. Why are so many suffering from the inconvenience and pains of this ban on Dorje Shugden? It is definitely due to our negative karma. It is a blessing in disguise as this ban is a form of purification for us. I concurred with Shugdenprotect, Tammy & Barzin on this.
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There is no doubt that HHDL's ban of Dorje Shugden practice and the resulting persecution of DS practitioners have caused considerable pain and suffering. However, there is no way anyone can suffer unless they have the karma to suffer. And if they do not have the karma to suffer, there nothing anyone can do that can cause any suffering.
As shallow and samsaric beings we see all suffering as being a terrible thing and we try our best to avoid it but ultimately we fail because pain and suffering are very much part of life in samsara. Perhaps we should look at it another way. If I have to suffer because it is my karma to suffer, what better way to experience that suffering than as the result of my refusal to break an oath and to give up my Practice! What an incredible way to experience suffering which I cannot avoid anywhere...and what incredible benefits to suffer in worship of our protector.
In my opinion HHDL's objective of imposing the ban on DS has always been to cleverly enroll the Chinese into spreading the Shugden practice. But can't the Chinese see through that we ask? Not really...after all aren't we all blinded by our anger and delusions?
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I agree with vajratruth in that if we believe in Karma in that nothing happens without a cause, the sufferings of the Shugden practitioners is not so much a result of the ban but of their own karma. Perhaps the fruitioning of their negative karma is also a gift from HH Dalai Lama. I mean we can have all sorts of fruitioning of our negative karma but to actually experience our negative karma because of our loyalty to our Dorje Shugden practice is pretty meritorious if i may say so.
With regard to this topic of the Chinese forcing monks to practice Shugden, it is also the karma of the monks who are being forced to do a practice they would rather not do. And i think that being forced to do Dorje Shugden practice is also very meritorious compared to other things the monks could be forced to do.
All in all, while i also concur with several of the other forum posters that being forced to do any practice is unpleasant, the end result is a positive one - the monks are being made to do the practice of an enlightened Buddha. I could think of many things worse than this!
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This is such unbelievably wonderful news to receive! Thanks Namdrol!!!
It is no with no doubt that all the absolute causes and conditions were created by the Dalai Lama specifically for this very reason and this very goal! Otherwise CTA u better shut up now because it is lierally being implemented by the Chinese Govt as this site has predicted! Which is better, Ban Dorje Shugden amongst one over million Tibetans while it spreads to about 1.4 billion people? The latter is obvious.
If they only lift the ban then there will be less pressure and nothing for China to go against.
I this HHDL is not stupid and definitely does not create havoc or disunity amongst his own people... though unfortunately some sacrifices need to be made for the bigger cause and for the long term future. I am most certain now that all was premeditated for this exact results.... and with much eagerness may the Chinese spread it throughout the whole country till it spills over to down to Asia!!! Rejoice ;)
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HH Dalai Lama had understood the mentality of the Chinese Government knowing that whatever HH Dalai lama does, the Chinese Government would do the opposite. Hence to make Dorje Shugden very famous and spread far and wide especially in the mainland China, HH Dalai Lama had initiated the ban on Dorje Shugden. HH Dalai Lama had to sacrifice many including his own reputation to make this a reality. If Woeser’s report about monks in Polha monastery (and later being extended to universities nationwide in China) were demanded to worship Shugden is true, then HH Dalai Lama’s brilliant plan is finally working! We shall see that the truth of the bigger picture behind the ban on Dorje Shugden revealing, and soon the ban shall be lifted!
I agree with WidomBeing and Tammy that forcing monks against their will to practise Dorje Shugden is unpleasant and inappropriate. HH Dalai Lama is Chenrezig and has the clairvoyance to know all these ‘negative’ impact the ban on Dorje Shugden will bring about. Why are so many suffering from the inconvenience and pains of this ban on Dorje Shugden? It is definitely due to our negative karma. It is a blessing in disguise as this ban is a form of purification for us. I concurred with Shugdenprotect, Tammy & Barzin on this.
Dorje Shugden practitioners who do not support HHDL should read this. How can Chenrezig be wrong??? Just because we don't have the wisdom to see beyond doesn't mean our deductions are always right.
What dondrup wrote is so true. I believe HHDL is purifying the karma of the Tibetans who are suffering as a result of the ban. Just like our Lama orchestrates situations where we "suffer" but suffer less of the negative karma that we were supposed to experience. These are skillful methods that only attained Lamas are able to do.
If we truly believe in karma, why would we blame HHDL for our own sufferings? It doesn't make sense.
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Yes the GREAT EXCEPTION triumphs over the GREAT DECEPTION. Well now we have proof that the Chinese are now getting the monks in Tibet to engage in Dorje Shugden. Well I think it is not just the Chinese are trying to get to the Dalai Lama. All over Tibet the Dorje Shugden lamas and people especially in Chatreng I feel have showed to the Chinese Government their quality and what they bring to the community. I am sure any government is appreciative of peace loving citizens and what they bring to the country.
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Nice find mate. Now Im just waiting for Phayul trolls to pick up on this and say, "SEE! We TOLD you Dorje Shugden practitioners are agents of the Communists!"
You know what? Boo frickin hoo Phayul. If you dont want Dorje Shugden, 1.2 BILLION Chinese want him. And by banning Dorje Shugden amongst the Tibetans, clearly you have just created yet ANOTHER reason for the Chinese to impose rules on Tibetans living in Tibet...as though the poor sods dont have enough problems already.
Can anyone say BACKFIRE?
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Thank you Namdrol for the news.
Am happy and sad at the same time. Happy to hear that China is making the monks practice Lord Dorje Shugden!
Am sad that so many are still being tortured for loving Tibet and HHDL.
Everything is falling into place. The ban and HHDL... getting famous everyday! I should've known it. The ban is for something much BIGGER but some of us lack of wisdom therefore it took some time to actually realize the BIGGER picture. It's just a matter of time now! Can't wait!
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When more people embrace the practices of Dorje Shugden, the voice of those who are against the practice will be drown out. If 10% of the population in China started to do the practice, there would be over 100 million practitioners! This website is getting popular with up to date information of recent affairs. By enrolling our friends, colleagues at work, family, relatives....to visit here is one of the ways we may embark upon to assist in the lifting of the ban.
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I have not travelled to Tibet myself, but have heard many accounts of friends' travels there and seen their photographs. It is impressive, to say the least, how well preserved these monasteries are across the country. Friends relate that these monasteries and other prominent religious buildings receive financial support from the government, who invest to preserve, restore and enhance them. So there seems to be encouragement (though forcibly, in some cases), both for actual practice as well as in the physical set-up and institutions to facilitate practice.
Even if there is resistance towards practice of Shugden within China, it signals that the practice is made readily available to people who DO want to practice - and there are certainly a lot of people in China, with many more from the outside world wanting to go in to visit.
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I do not see how we can rest our hope on this theory that HHDL is doing it for a bigger picture and jumping up and down feeling elated over one news like this. Until now, this 'I am sure HHDL is doing it for a bigger picture' remains a theory. And until the ban is lifted only then do I believe this theory.
Whichever side of the fence you are in, beings are suffering. If you are a Tibetan Shugdenpa, you are ostracised. If you are a monk in Tibet, you cannot practice your religion freely. And if you are a monk in China and do not want to practice Dorje Shugden, you are probably termed as non allegiance to your country. Why cant human beings be allowed freedom of spiritual choice???
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HH Dalai Lama had understood the mentality of the Chinese Government knowing that whatever HH Dalai lama does, the Chinese Government would do the opposite. Hence to make Dorje Shugden very famous and spread far and wide especially in the mainland China, HH Dalai Lama had initiated the ban on Dorje Shugden. HH Dalai Lama had to sacrifice many including his own reputation to make this a reality. If Woeser’s report about monks in Polha monastery (and later being extended to universities nationwide in China) were demanded to worship Shugden is true, then HH Dalai Lama’s brilliant plan is finally working! We shall see that the truth of the bigger picture behind the ban on Dorje Shugden revealing, and soon the ban shall be lifted!
I agree with WidomBeing and Tammy that forcing monks against their will to practise Dorje Shugden is unpleasant and inappropriate. HH Dalai Lama is Chenrezig and has the clairvoyance to know all these ‘negative’ impact the ban on Dorje Shugden will bring about. Why are so many suffering from the inconvenience and pains of this ban on Dorje Shugden? It is definitely due to our negative karma. It is a blessing in disguise as this ban is a form of purification for us. I concurred with Shugdenprotect, Tammy & Barzin on this.
Dorje Shugden practitioners who do not support HHDL should read this. How can Chenrezig be wrong??? Just because we don't have the wisdom to see beyond doesn't mean our deductions are always right.
What dondrup wrote is so true. I believe HHDL is purifying the karma of the Tibetans who are suffering as a result of the ban. Just like our Lama orchestrates situations where we "suffer" but suffer less of the negative karma that we were supposed to experience. These are skillful methods that only attained Lamas are able to do.
If we truly believe in karma, why would we blame HHDL for our own sufferings? It doesn't make sense.
further to these sharings above, one should ask ourselves what good and successful leaders would do? Prepare someone to take over when they pass on. I think deep down inside, HHDL knows that during these degenerate times, no political figure can take the place of HHDL.
Only when Dorje Shugden takes mainstream within the minds of the Chinese, would Tibet and its people secure their wonderful culture and spiritual practice. There's so much political upheaval happening within the CTA now that they cannot focus on the real problem of the Tibetans. Only by having the next 'leader' (Dorje Shugden/Shugden Lama) outside of the CTA would be the real solution to what these people need for this time and situation.
Can't wait for Dorje Shugden to spread like wild fire across the land of the Dragon and eventually, to the world!
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The Chinese will do anything to go against HHDL's words. Demanding monks to worship Shugden, sponsoring of pro-shugden temples, refurbishment of their prayer rooms etc..The Chinese are doing to the pro-shugdenpas what the CTA is doing for the anti-shugdenpas. I read in an article that the Chinese government allies itself with Shugden supporters and they are assured to "enjoy genuine freedom of religious practice".
But having the Chinese demand monks to worship Shugden, is like the monks being forced to swear in against Shugden in the monasteries. Both ways have no religious freedom of practise.
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The Dorje Shugden ban is probably the only ban in the world where despite the ban on people worshipping this deity the numbers are increasing by the day. Just look at this phenomenon of NKT centers, they are not slowing down in the numbers of devotees and now as China pushes for more and more people joining the practice. It is like defying gravity :) . The Great Exception is becoming more and more real by the day, sorry the Great Deception does not hold water too many inconsistencies and Dalai Lama is fulfilling his role as the Buddha of Compassion and giving the world what it needs Dorje Shugden.
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Wow! Thanks for sharing this. It is very interesting. The bigger picture is very obvious. The practice of Dorje Shugden can and will spread very widely in China. The Chinese government is encouraging monks to practice Shugden. There are more people in China than in Tibet, the Dalai Lama putting the ban will result in more Chinese supporting the practice. His Holiness has a very great mind that can understand the causes to the spread of Dorje Shugden. To the people who slander His Holiness by saying that he is bias against Dorje Shugden, think again! He is spreading the practice like wildfire.
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Woeser has already gone beyond the line of being a 'reporter' with a balanced view, due to her deep hatred to Beijing government and deep affiliation with Tibetan(but you need to investigate a bit more how come she and her husband Wang lixiong are not arrested after that much negative comment of policies in Tibet for over 10 years , unlike most other dissidents in China..)
The China government is not promoting Dorje Shugden in Tibetan monasteries. Officials keep their eye closed for locals Tibetan with HHDL' photo in their shrine during 'non-sensitive' period, do you think they will promote DS in monasteries if these monasteries don't have this tradition?
A more reasonable reading from this news is that the team may visited a Gelukpa monastery which traditionally worship DS, and they ask them keep this practice, not following HHDL's advice. If it were like most of other Gelukpa monasteries(which don't worship DS), they will not promote it.
What Woeser hinted in her report is that the Beijing government and DS followers are gathered in line against HHDL, a very common story in India. Don't be excited by this..
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When I read this post, my faith increases about the greatness of Dalai Lama. He is really implementing the ban for the bigger picture. For that he does not hesitate to make a fool of himself by stating that DS is a spirit. HHDL was a DS practitioner as stated in Trijang Rinpoche's Illusory Play. Even prior to living Tibet to go to India, he was consulting several Oracles, one of them being DS oracle. And he chose to follow DS suggestions to go to India through Kham. The experience to go through the journey is stated in his early biography, My Land My People. This account is later confirmed in Trijang Rinpoche's biography, Illusory Play. What My Land My People do not state is the consultation with Gyalchen Shugden prior to his living Tibet.
I found it incomprehensible that HHDL implemented the ban just for the sake of implementing it or because suddenly he thinks that DS is a spirit. DS is a sacred practice given to him by his holy Guru, Trijang Rinpoche.
Saying that, I still pray that the ban will be lifted soon because regardless of the bigger pictures, the ban has various negative implications such as discriminations among Tibetans, people living in fear, schism among Sangha in monasteries, etc.
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Lets look at things logically: If HHDL was real, do you think he would have ingratitude, especially towards the Dharma protector who guaranteed his safety across Tibet? If he has, why can he still be the Dalai lama? Unless he has a bigger plan in mind, in line with Trijang Rinpoche's plan to spread Dorje Shugden to more people than we can ever imagine, and he is only doing this as an act.
Would you follow a teacher who does not have gratitude? Would that teacher even be successful in the first place in spreading the Dharma? If the teacher is successful but displays ingratitude, it could only mean one thing: it is actually an act of sorts for a bigger reason that we cannot see for now and he does not mean it (contradictions appear when he talks about Dorje Shugden and also on Dorje Shugden articles on his website...)
In response to wang, i dont think all the monasteries in Tibet proper got the message that Dorje Shugden is banned as Tibet is vast and some monasteries are very remote. Khadro-la, the oracle for Tseringma/Tenma who escaped from Tibet in her account said that she was not even aware that Tibet has been taken over by the communists. This shows that Tibet is more remote than we think.
Not all DS followers are against HHDL. For example, in this forum you can see that there are so many people who support both Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama, side by side, hand in hand so how can you say that all Dorje Shugden practitioners are against HHDL? Unless you have bias and are severely uninformed of the real situations of things, you should have known better.....
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We can look at this whole scenario of the ban by Dalai Lama in a negative light which does not help our practice. Or we can look at it in the positive light as predicted by Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. Either way the ban is on. Either way what is happening has happened.
For us to constantly say derogatory words to the Dalai Lama does not help us.
Why does Dorje Shugden not do something about this? Why does Kache Marpo who can 'swallow the sky' allow this to happen to his Master?
Why does Namka Barzin who has mystical tornado like magical power keep silent?
Why worship a protector who cannot protect himself against such a ban? Why does Shugden not stop this? Because it was meant to be.
Very simple, this was all meant to be. As time goes on we will see the ban was part of the grand scheme of things. The ban made us all work much harder, talk more, create websites, participate in forums, write letters, and become very steadfast in our commitment to our lamas, protector and lineage. It did have that effect for me and many of my friends for sure. The ban was definitely part of the bigger picture.
Nothing happens by coincidence. Dorje Shugden already told us to hang on steadfast and the ban will come to a conclusion within 4-5 years. All things will change and turn in our favour.
Those who disparaged will regret and the wise among those who criticized will apologize to Shugden. That time will surely come.
The bigger picture's purpose will come full circle.
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Thaimonk, I like what you say here. I also like the beautiful thangka of Shugden in his most ferocious form.
Mana
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There is no bigger picture. Engaging in the practice of Shugden contradicts the advice of Lama Tsongakapa who recommended the principal protector for his lineage to be Kalarupa.
If we do not follow Tsongkapa's advice, we surely will not follow HHDL's advice. Once we start down that road, it is hard to stop.
We should make a clean break from Shugden. If Shugden is a protector like some claim, he won't mind. After all the Gelug lineage lamas such as Song and Trijhang Rinpoches all worshipped Kalarupa. Ganden, Sera and Drephung all worshipped Kalarupa as their main practice together with their specific monastic protectors. No one has any qualms with Kalarupa from day one. There is no two sides about Kalarupa and no controversy. But Shugden has much controversies springing from harm people have received as in Zemey Rinpoche's yellow book. Zemey Rinpoche was a practitioner of Shugden and a Gelug Lineage holder and Zemey himself says Shugden will harm or kill those who do not fall in line or practice Nyingmapa practice. What kind of protector is that? Kalarupa will never harm a follower of the Gelug for any reason or any practitioner for that matter. Shugden is dangerous.
Kalarupa is also propitiated in the upper and lower tantric colleges for hundreds of years but Shugden has not been. Gelug history, tradition and lineage is based upon Kalarupa and not Shugden.
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Actually Lama Tsongkhapa made Dorje Shugden his Principle protector, It was felt by many masters that Kalarupa had been granted his retirement so he is still active but not as strong as he once was due to karma in this degenerate age. Not only Did the 5th Dalai lama approve of Dorje Shugden after his mistaken views but he also composed a prayer praising his divine qualities and he the protector was later enthroned by the 7th Dalai lama as a protector of the Gelug at that time he was fairly minor as the other protectors where still fairly strong in their activity so it was not until the time that the most esteemed master Tagphu Pemavajra visited Tushita heaven to request a teaching directly from Lama Tsongkhapa and hence Je Rinpoche revealed Dorje Shugden directly from underneath his throne Symbolizing that the protector is a direct manifestation of Je Rinpoche, The transmission was given and thus Dorje Shugden became more high profile then he once was helping the great masters of our recent lineage revive the fame and pure example of the Gelug and spread it far and wide, Without this prinicple protector of Je Tsongkhapa the Dalai lama today would not have the opportunity to benefit others he would be very much dead without Dorje Shugdens safe guidance out of Tibet the exile community would not be what it is today the Dharma would not be thriving in India if This deity had not intervened. It is due directly to this manifestation of Manjushri that we all have the opportunity to practice Dharma today especially the unmistaken and pure Dharma of Je Tsongkhapa which he the Great protector is sworn to uphold. Dorje Shugden is the principle protector of this age now he spreads Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition far and wide throughout the world with our without the Dalai lama's approval.
Long after the Dalai lama is gone Dorje Shugden will still be here benefiting Je Tsongkhapa's tradition.
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Actually Lama Tsongkhapa made Dorje Shugden his Principle protector, It was felt by many masters that Kalarupa had been granted his retirement so he is still active but not as strong as he once was due to karma in this degenerate age.
This is a real good one. Who put Kalarupa to retirement? How can a Buddha filled with compassion, skillful means, omniscience ever retire? I mean he isn't a bus driver! LOL.
What scriptural sources show clearly Kalarupa has retired? Please show us. ;)
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Long after the Dalai lama is gone Dorje Shugden will still be here benefiting Je Tsongkhapa's tradition.
Hey, long after Dalai Lama may be gone and Shugden is 'still around'. It's like Mara is still around long after Shakyamuni has been gone. :-\
Doesn't make mara or shugden any better than Shakyamuni and HHDL just because they are still around. :)
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Woeser has already gone beyond the line of being a 'reporter' with a balanced view, due to her deep hatred to Beijing government and deep affiliation with Tibetan(but you need to investigate a bit more how come she and her husband Wang lixiong are not arrested after that much negative comment of policies in Tibet for over 10 years , unlike most other dissidents in China..)
The China government is not promoting Dorje Shugden in Tibetan monasteries. Officials keep their eye closed for locals Tibetan with HHDL' photo in their shrine during 'non-sensitive' period, do you think they will promote DS in monasteries if these monasteries don't have this tradition?
A more reasonable reading from this news is that the team may visited a Gelukpa monastery which traditionally worship DS, and they ask them keep this practice, not following HHDL's advice. If it were like most of other Gelukpa monasteries(which don't worship DS), they will not promote it.
What Woeser hinted in her report is that the Beijing government and DS followers are gathered in line against HHDL, a very common story in India. Don't be excited by this..
Wang, I'm not excited by this. Shugden spirit practice will never take off in Tibet again. It will decline more and more. Tibetans are more materialistic and exposed in Tibet and they want the 'good life' just like anyone else.
Tibetans in Tibet are aligned with HHDL. :D
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The population of China is possible around 1.5 Billion - imagine if the whole country were to be converted to worship DS. If this happens, China's stance against HHDL would be very strong. Would that then force HHDL to life the ban? Would China be that ambitious and successful?
Whether the ban gets lifted or not, everyone should be given right of freedom of religious practice. I am sure each and everyone of us are sane enough to decide which practice suits us well.
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Tibetans in Tibet are aligned with HHDL. :D
Not to my observation sorry. But as you guys defined, those dis-agreed with HHDL are 'not Tibetan', so you make your statement self-contained....:(
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Wang, I'm not excited by this. Shugden spirit practice will never take off in Tibet again. It will decline more and more. Tibetans are more materialistic and exposed in Tibet and they want the 'good life' just like anyone else.
Tibetans in Tibet are aligned with HHDL. :D
Tibetans in Tibet may be aligned to His Holiness now, but His Holiness has been out of Tibet for more than 60 years. A whole new generation of Tibetans is growing up not knowing the Dalai Lama, and the current generation is getting older. The new generation sees Dorje Shugden in their monasteries, but they do not see the Dalai Lama. You are right, Tibetans are getting more materialistic as they adapt to a changing world. However, I disagree that Shugden practice will decline more and more in Tibet.
Dorje Shugden practice is very suitable for this era. Especially because of the materialistic society Tibetans are living in now, Shugden practice is even more relevant. On the superficial side, Dorje Shugden practice can help grant people’s wishes, however mundane they are. So his practice will attract the very people who are spiritually lacking.
Dorje Shugden will provide swift results in the early stages so that you can experience the ‘benefits’ of the practice and then be led to learn more Dharma in the end. In fact, Shugden practice will spread like wildfire because there is not only no ban against it in Tibet, but it is encouraged by the Chinese authorities.
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I live in a place where there is total religious freedom. If someone were to say bad of another person's religious belief, there would be an uproar. The practice of Buddhism is for mind transformation, among others, leading to enlightenment. But with the current trend of putting down a Buddhist practice does not augur well for Buddhism per se. It is making a mockery of the Buddhist practice and the laughing stock for the world at large. Unless there is a big pot at the end of the rainbow. If not, then why?
If anyone were to tell me to stop practicing Dorje Shugden, I would say: shove it!
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Actually Lama Tsongkhapa made Dorje Shugden his Principle protector, It was felt by many masters that Kalarupa had been granted his retirement so he is still active but not as strong as he once was due to karma in this degenerate age.
This is a real good one. Who put Kalarupa to retirement? How can a Buddha filled with compassion, skillful means, omniscience ever retire? I mean he isn't a bus driver! LOL.
What scriptural sources show clearly Kalarupa has retired? Please show us. ;)
Shakyamuni Buddha known as the forth buddha, and the next is Maitreya Buddha, even in buddhahood, they do not stay permanent, it changes, does this mean the buddhas are not compassion? Not skillful? I would believe this statement is not true, the changes of buddhas is due to the law of impermanence, nothing stays permanent, so do buddha's teaching.
Since Buddha doesn't stay, so if protector change, I don't see any problem here. changing of the protector to suit the different generation, different time, different karma, so does this means skillful to you?
Kalarupa is a form of Manjushri, Dorje Shugden is also another wrathful form of Manjushri, since both this form are from Manjushri, do you think why like that? Manjushri has been manifested into different form to bring best benefit people from different generation, different group of people. so does this shows the compassion of the buddha? the skillful means of the buddha?
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Rejoice to read about this post. Happy to see that more people get connected to Lord Shugden.
Thank you HHDL for this skillful mean of the ban to spread the supreme Buddhism to China. I have always believe and trust in you, Chenrezig with great compassion. it does not make sense for you to have the ban that do not promote the harmony of religions except for this only reason of promoting Buddhism and Lord DS to China and more people.
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This is a real good one. Who put Kalarupa to retirement? How can a Buddha filled with compassion, skillful means, omniscience ever retire? I mean he isn't a bus driver! LOL.
What scriptural sources show clearly Kalarupa has retired? Please show us. ;)
Invoke the help of both Kalarupa and Dorje Shugden to see what yields results quicker. Me and many others have found out that Dorje Shugden lends his assistance swiftly and accurately as compared to Kalarupa. It is not that Kalarupa is retired per se, but that his effectiveness during this day and age is reduced due to the fact that the collective karma of the beings of this time are too heavy to receive Kalarupa's help.
But then again, the efficacy of a Dharma protector depends on many factors. One of them is Guru Devotion. A Dharma protector cannot help much if someone does not have Guru devotion or if that person lacks a teacher to rely upon as the Dharma protector, Yidam and the teacher are all of the same material: Wisdom, Compassion and Skillful means. All 3 must be present for the protector to really reach out for us.
The next factor is how committed we are to the Dharma. If we are not committed to the Dharma or we dont do everything for our Dharma practice then the protector cannot help us either...why should he help us to increase our attachment to samsara by providing the conducive conditions for us to love samsara even more?! How does that even help us on the road to enlightenment?
So these factors actually come into play to whether or not a Dharma protector is effective but for Dorje Shugden, he has helped me even when my samaya is broken to help me mend it, or rather prepare my mind to repair it and also to open up the opportunity for me to do so. And for this I am forever grateful.
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look at the amount of publicity now in the main stream media? it is going to be more and more hype being build for Dorje Shugden and be ever so popular to the eyes of the world.
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look at the amount of publicity now in the main stream media? it is going to be more and more hype being build for Dorje Shugden and be ever so popular to the eyes of the world.
The more people talk about the ban, the more curiosity it will stir even if it is not exactly publicity of the good kind but there is the internet and there are many materials that people can actually refer to and check on information and when they find out who and what Dorje Shugden is, they can and will decide whether or not Dorje Shugden is for them.
It is going to be interesting to see how many people will change their minds after reading all of the articles and proofs that can be found on this website and elsewhere about Dorje Shugden and how much of them will have to rethink about Guru devotion and if they will think twice after this as to whether or not Dorje Shugden is good or bad for them coz like i've said, people of these day and age prefer the cold, hard facts.
Dorje Shugden will not just grow in China but it will also grow in countries that needs something fast and effective to alleviate their problems such as for example africa and also countries where it is very hard to practice the Dharma such as in europe for example as these are the places that need Dorje Shugden's energy and assistance to clear whatever problems that they will have.
There is still a lot more people that need Dorje Shugden's help. The ban wil delay these people from getting help but for sure it will not stop Dorje Shugden from helping these people for sure. Negative word of mouth works as well because who would want to care if Dorje Shugden is good or bad if the people really need his assistance?
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I always believed and have faith in HHTDL. I am sure he is one of the true practitioner of DS and by using a guerilla tactics he's able to create so much conflicts around the world and got the Chinese attention. With the Chinese being one of the largest market in the world, it does making sense that with this move by banning DS practice indirectly will make the Chinese do the opposite of HHTDL decision. Its like a plot in the movie. If you think it properly, bits and pieces coming together like puzzle. And i believed the person who will and practice 'Guru Devotion' entirely is DL Himself. More over the teachers of HHTDL were no ordinary teachers.
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An amazing account in this book mentions that the Chinese patriotic education work team actually demanded the monks in some monastery to worship Shugden (because it is banned by the Dalai Lama), this must be the real reason behind the Dalai Lama's ban, and this is what this website dorjeshugden.com has been advocating always, to make Shugden big in China...the truth is surfacing!!!
Whether or not the big picture is the real reason behind the Dalai Lama's ban, it seems that the contributing factors to big picture is slowly manifesting ;D
It seemed that amongst Dorje Shugden practitioners, there seem to be two ways of interpreting the Dalai Lama’s actions: “The Bigger Picture” or “A Great Deception.”
The most convincing point for me to be a proponent of this is when I find out that The Dalai Lama has claimed that Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit who will harm his life. Yet, according to the Abbot-Emeritus of Sera Monastery, who consulted Dorje Shugden via an Oracle, Dorje Shugden saved the Dalai Lama’s life by advising him to leave Tibet in 1959 and showing him the way to safety.
Also, when His Holiness condems Dorje Shugden as an evil spirit, he also composed a praise to Dorje Shugden "Melody of the Unceasing Vajra" that shows beyond the shadow of a doubt the enlightened origin and the “holy mind” of the King Protector as seen by His Holiness. No “ghost” can come from Tushita and Kechara, Maitreya and Vajrayogini’s pureland. No “ghost” can cause you to “soar the path of immortal liberation on unified wings of Sutra and Tantra”!
Either His Holiness suffers from Dissociative identity disorder (also known as Multiple Personality Disorder) that he keeps contradicting himself, or there is a bigger picture which outcome will benefit many, and in the case of China, it is definitely a huge number out there.
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A great news and fit for rejoicing indeed! We have known for far too long the only pure motivation for His Holiness to ban the practice and to come up with all the excuses of practising Dorje Shugden will harm the Dalai Lama is to make the Chinese Government to prosper in practising Dorje Shugden! We all know it is not going to harm HHDL by practising. So this is definitely a great welcoming news! I hope more and more will practise and with that, the day of the lifting of this ban will come true very soon!
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If any, this means that the theories that the Dalai Lama banned Dorje Shugden so that more people would be praying to Dorje Shugden in the long run is true. I have also heard that not only that the government has demanded the monks to worship Dorje Shugden, they have also have supported the building of Dorje Shugden statues which are huge in various temples. Dorje Shugden's very own temple in Lhasa, Trode Khangsar remains protected by Chinese troops and untouched till this very day and was spared during the cultural revolution as it was used by the communists. Perhaps, Dorje Shugden has the most affinity with China, one of the world's most populous countries, and i personally dont think its smart to go head on against them...