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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: DSFriend on April 26, 2012, 09:41:40 AM
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I do wonder is there truth in this popular saying, "what doesn't kill you, will strengthen you" especially when it's being viewed from a karmic perspective.
I used to find comfort in this phrase... but more so recently that it's just a saying to romanticize sufferings. Well nothing wrong with putting a positive spin to our gloomy state..until I had an encounter with an acquaintance who dishes out harsh words quite often. What caught my attention was when this phrase was used to justify the aggression as a rightful and beneficial act, an act to “strengthen you”. It’s common to meet people who use aggression as a form of manipulation and control.
From the view point of karma, its not that which doesn’t kill you, strengthens you… but rather, exhausting all which has the potential to kill us is what will strengthen and free us from all harm.
What do you think?
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I reckon what the phrase "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger!" is rather apt from a Dharma perspective purely because it makes us push through our comfort zones. As we tend to make excuses for ourselves thinking we cannot do this or that because it is tough or we do not know how to do it.
Hence this phrase basically gives us a kick in the butt (pardon my french!) reminding us that results come from action and sometimes the action does require effort. And if it gets tough, do not give up as with effort and going all the way comes tangible results.
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If this phrase is used in the wrong context as mentioned by DSFriend to justify aggression and use to manipulate and control, then it can be very damaging.
However, this phrase is to empower us when we go through challenges in our life. My interpretation is that instead of focusing in and dwelling in the negative emotions, focus out on other matters that are more important.
My Guru always tell me to put my negative emotions aside and focus on benefiting others. I'm just too attached to the "self". This is what I learnt and has strengthened me. My negative emotions are still there due to the challenges I face, but they don't stop me from doing things that are more constructive and important.
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I would agree to the phrase "What doesn't kill you, will strengthen you". Example, if in a life threatening situations, it will make sense that one who survives through will become much stronger for he or she will be more experienced, become more aware and better prepared to escape or handle similar event in the future. Hence, in positive karmic sense and with tenacity one would be free from all harms and ultimate happiness would prevail. Hence, I would say that this phrase empowers and strengthen oneself to go through the challenges in life be it in dharma or secular to become successful.
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This phrase is a good . I like what Klien says
“However, this phrase is to empower us when we go through challenges in our life. My interpretation is that instead of focusing in and dwelling in the negative emotions, focus out on other matters that are more important.“
Failing is part an parcel of life some people are able to pick themselves up easily and quick and some take a long time and when that happens they will remain in comfort zone thinking that without doing anything they wont fail. But every failing actually built us to become stronger
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I agree and disagree. I agree if the experiences are not overwhelming and over traumatizing then the experiences will make us stronger, whenever we are faced with similar experiences in the future we are most likely able to face it with ease. However if a person experience a horrifying situation most likely they become weaker because the very experience itself can petrify and caused tremendous fear in them that will have lingering effects in their mind stream.
I've met a person who suffers from post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) she is still afraid of the night and her doors has multiple locks due to fear. She was robbed at home and other unwanted incident happened to her which has scarred her for life. It all happened at night. When night falls she will go into a very disturbing anxiety episode, fear and occasionally collapse and get stuck in that experience over and over again in her mind. Whenever she sleeps she will have bad dreams on and on and it has been happening for many years ever since the bad experience.
That experience didn't kill her but made her weaker.
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I find some truth in the saying; what doesn't kill you will strengthen you, and it is especially true in cases where one truly feels the impact of the situation and then improves themselves so that they do not have to experience the same situation again. Or if one truly feels regretful of their actions, then they will do what they can to avoid putting themselves in the same situation again. In the sense of self-improvement, to become better, to handle a similar situation better, to avoid being and having the same result of a previous experience/situation, then this saying probably has some truth in it. In most cases, it is because you allow your mind to become stronger and better.
BUT!.. say if you were a burglar, and you keep succeeding in your breaking-ins and avoid getting caught. It will strengthen the burglar's bravery and courage to keep carrying out that act. Of course karma comes into play, but the statment would also be true for this.
So, the saying works, but again it depends on ur motivation, what you want to strengthen - yourself, your evil deeds, your malicious intents, your achievments, your attitude and goals... it's your choice.
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We could read it like this:
If I survive some type of flu, then I have created anti-bodies for it and I am now immune to it.
In order to be immune, this is what had to happen:
1. I had to start the disease first,
I have watered the karmic seed to get that disease and the karma for me to get this disease ripened.
2. then throughout day and night, I endure it, its pain, its anguish,
the karma to suffer the pain of the disease ripened
3. through medicine or self-healing, I am cured of the disease
I had opened the karma for me to be healed
4. In this instance, because of the process endured in 1, 2 and 3, I have created the anti-bodies not to have the aggregated supportive of that disease again.
I have exhausted my karma to get this disease, and unless I recreate a new karmic seed for it, whatever watering will not result in me experiencing this disease again, at least with my current aggregates.
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For me this phrase proves to you that as long as you operate outside your comfort zone, then it will make you a stronger person. Of course this applies dharmically as well, because pushing yourself purifies your bad karma quicker, so long as you are pushing yourself to benefit others or for the dharma. But of course it will make you stronger. How many times have you gone through difficulties, difficult times and come out a better stronger person, a person who can cope easier, and understands life better. Going through difficulties helps you, even though everyone tries to avoid them.
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"What doesn't kill you, will strengthen you". From my point of view, this will make us a stronger. We shouldn't be dwelling on the negative aspect when we failed or when someone hurts us instead we should focus on more important matters. When we go through an emotional or traumatic turmoil in our life, we should not simply give up, but to take the challenges we are facing. The experience will make us a stronger person.
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I think some people uses this harsh word is because they believe you deserve what you get without saying it outright. Then this is wrong to do so. The meaning is correct, but the motivation may be wrong. Especially in bad times, one should be encouraging and be skilful with words as it can be damaging.
I personally experienced a low point in life and I thought I pulled myself out of it. During then it seems to be that way. What doesnt kill you makes you stronger. The point is it's not about whether it makes you a stronger person or not, because it may appear that it makes you stronger if we block out our emotions and be cold. Being strong is not holding one to all our unpleasant experiences we went through. Being strong is able to let go of all the emotions of anger, hatred, resentment and not being able to proceed and excel in life that came with all the bad experiences.
It is not necessary what did not kill you will strengthen you, it is really up to how much we want to make a change in our lives from then on.
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This phrase always begins with a strong opinion of ones mind. It represents the win of our strength that we are capable of handling more than we are made of. To push through our comfort zones, and break down the walls that sets us apart from what we can achieve. If something so brutal comes attacking if it doesn't kill you, it's not easy but we are able to arise from our depression. There is hope to ignite the light within us to move on, get back up and approach our next battle with much bravery and motivation that we can get through whatever that comes our way. In buddhism we take the ones that harm us most and treat them as our guru, we hold them dear to us and never let go. Because we know that without them we are unable to move forward and be strong human beings as we are now. We are unable to develop the compassion and kind heart without being hurt in the first place.
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I agree and disagree. I agree if the experiences are not overwhelming and over traumatizing then the experiences will make us stronger, whenever we are faced with similar experiences in the future we are most likely able to face it with ease. However if a person experience a horrifying situation most likely they become weaker because the very experience itself can petrify and caused tremendous fear in them that will have lingering effects in their mind stream.
I've met a person who suffers from post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) she is still afraid of the night and her doors has multiple locks due to fear. She was robbed at home and other unwanted incident happened to her which has scarred her for life. It all happened at night. When night falls she will go into a very disturbing anxiety episode, fear and occasionally collapse and get stuck in that experience over and over again in her mind. Whenever she sleeps she will have bad dreams on and on and it has been happening for many years ever since the bad experience.
That experience didn't kill her but made her weaker.
I understand what you mean, and I must agree that many people have psychological problems after a traumatic experience. However, that is in general context. When it comes to Dharma, and particularly Dharma practitioners... challenges, bad experiences etc should not affect one too much to the point of being dysfunctional. Infact, it should make one grow as we would contemplate and make sure nothing of such should happen again, and if it does we will face it with more wisdom.
I always believe how much a person suffers from a difficult situation determines how much Dharma they have ingrained and practice within themselves. Why? because the more a person suffers, the larger their sense of self is present within... and we all know Dharma teaches us to think outward, not inward. Therefore, difficult situation + Dharma wisdom and practice will strengthen a person.
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I do wonder is there truth in this popular saying, "what doesn't kill you, will strengthen you" especially when it's being viewed from a karmic perspective.
I used to find comfort in this phrase... but more so recently that it's just a saying to romanticize sufferings. Well nothing wrong with putting a positive spin to our gloomy state..until I had an encounter with an acquaintance who dishes out harsh words quite often. What caught my attention was when this phrase was used to justify the aggression as a rightful and beneficial act, an act to “strengthen you”. It’s common to meet people who use aggression as a form of manipulation and control.
From the view point of karma, its not that which doesn’t kill you, strengthens you… but rather, exhausting all which has the potential to kill us is what will strengthen and free us from all harm.
What do you think?
"What doesn't kill you, will strengthen you" can have two outcomes. With understanding of the law of cause and effect, like what HopeRainbow shared, it will strengthen oneself, but without the knowledge, one can become worse and weak like what Sonamdhargey said about his friend.
With this in mind, it is so important to have the knowledge, infact, the knowledge of 'embracing karma" in the correct way, will be the antinodes to many unpleasant incidences in our life.
What DS friend said here is true, there are many people who use aggression as as a form of manipulation and control, and personally I have met plenty of this type of people, some dish out hard words like breathing......I "choose" to not let these hard words bother me, and just let them win. Their habituations has made them like this, and they cannot find any other better way to do it. In fact it is rather sad for them.
I will focus on the "eight versus of mind transformation" as an antidode to people like this.
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From the view point of karma, its not that which doesn’t kill you, strengthens you… but rather, exhausting all which has the potential to kill us is what will strengthen and free us from all harm.
DS Friend - I totally agree with you on this. Whatever 'sufferings' that we are going thru this lifetime, it all came from our past doing. Karma is like a boomerang, the harder you throw it out, the harder it comes back to you! We should therefore feel lucky and happy to suffer as it is 'repaying back' all the bad karma we did since beginningless time.
On the other hand, we should be aware that, enjoying ourselves in samsaric pleasures is exhausting our merits that we had accumulated. Hence dont be too happy if we are rich and able to enjoy life's many material 'pleasures' - I am sounding like a sour grape but I dont mean it that way.
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I agree and disagree. I agree if the experiences are not overwhelming and over traumatizing then the experiences will make us stronger, whenever we are faced with similar experiences in the future we are most likely able to face it with ease. However if a person experience a horrifying situation most likely they become weaker because the very experience itself can petrify and caused tremendous fear in them that will have lingering effects in their mind stream.
I've met a person who suffers from post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) she is still afraid of the night and her doors has multiple locks due to fear. She was robbed at home and other unwanted incident happened to her which has scarred her for life. It all happened at night. When night falls she will go into a very disturbing anxiety episode, fear and occasionally collapse and get stuck in that experience over and over again in her mind. Whenever she sleeps she will have bad dreams on and on and it has been happening for many years ever since the bad experience.
That experience didn't kill her but made her weaker.
I understand what you mean, and I must agree that many people have psychological problems after a traumatic experience. However, that is in general context. When it comes to Dharma, and particularly Dharma practitioners... challenges, bad experiences etc should not affect one too much to the point of being dysfunctional. Infact, it should make one grow as we would contemplate and make sure nothing of such should happen again, and if it does we will face it with more wisdom.
I always believe how much a person suffers from a difficult situation determines how much Dharma they have ingrained and practice within themselves. Why? because the more a person suffers, the larger their sense of self is present within... and we all know Dharma teaches us to think outward, not inward. Therefore, difficult situation + Dharma wisdom and practice will strengthen a person.
Thanks Q for your perspective. From a dharma perspective, I agree if people with Dharma ingrained in them and they practice Dharma well will be much better of than people who has none when one faces with unfortunate circumstances. Dharma practitioners will look at their unfortunate circumstances as their negative karma ripened and not dwell in it for long periods and can get of that suffering much faster and the results being stronger through applying the Dharma when faced with a bad situation.
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I quite like this phrase. "What doesn't kill you, will strengthen you". This statement is deemed true when we accept, contemplate what goes wrong, learn from the experience then move on. Spirituality is about mind transformation, eliminating bad habituation and develop and enforce the good ones.
When we encounter any difficulties in our lives, I always think it is because we do not know how to handle the situation, that is why it becomes a difficulty, a problem. It is just like when we are in the school, sitting in an exams, some of us is able to answer all the questions with the right answer and some of us do not even manage to answer half of it. However, the question that we are not able to answer, once we study more, put our effort to resolve it, eventually we will be able to answer. What I am trying to say here is, if we put in our effort to overcome our difficulties, to move on, we become stronger and better. But if we keep thinking of our failures and feel pity but not trying to learn from the lesson and move on, we can become weaker.
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When we have an accident or in a disastrous situation and had survived the ordeal , it is not wrong to say that it is exhaustion of one’s bad karma. However, it does not do much good either or improve things for us if we just treat every such occurrence as only purification.Are we expected to live life going through endless suffering or accepting that this is how our life has to be lived ?
We need to recognize the value and rarity of being born as a human against all odds. This present human body we have will never be repeated again. We also need to realize what we can do with this perfect human body which is that we can fulfil all our and others’ wishes to be free from all suffering and to have lasting happiness. It is important for us to reflect everytime we have a survival situation that we should put more effort to practice dharma because death can come anytime and is uncertain. Everyday we postpone practicing is everyday we can leave this world with nothing to help us in future lives.
We need to feel the urgency to obtain results from our practice, to gain realizations of refuge, renunciation etc , to engage daily in right actions to do confessions, collect merit to protect us from further accidents and negative karma ripening. This I think is the meaningful and Buddhist interpretation of above statement. We strengthen our resolve to engage in practice to gain liberation and enightenment.
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I definitely agree that what doesn't kill you, will strengthen you as you should have learned from that painful situation - to see what went wrong so that you will be in a better position to handle it in the future if a similar situation arises. After all, we need to learn from experience - to weed out the negative and improve on the positive.
If it were a horrifying experience like Sonam Dhargey's friend, then it will take a long time to get out of the situation; same may not. Family and friends need to help out in the recovery. Moral support will be a great help.
e
We have to learn to pick up the pieces and move on.
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Well potentially from a karmic point of view, since we have lived countless lifetimes and have generated countless good and bad karma, it is not the karma that counts but rather the condition that triggers it. That is why we say "cause and condition". From the Lamrim, we read that karma ripens, the strongest ones first, the most familiar second and then if everything is equal, the oldest.
Since, the phrase "What doesn't kill you, will strengthen you" denotes this lifetimes; I agree with the phrase for some cases but disagree some others. "Kill" here should not be taken as only actually dying but refers to some negative results. If we understand karma and about purifications then we can take it as a bad situation ripens and we apply Dharma, we let go, we learn, we cultivate patience and other perfections, be honest and have integrity and we improves. Improvement here can be taken as "strengthening". In this way the phrase is correct.
When referring to sports training this is also, very true and in fact that is how muscle grows. Coordinating improves with training as well.
However, when taking disease as an example, the it is not always true. If we talk about immunization then perhaps this is true. If cancer, most certainly not. Many counter examples.
What I wish to emphasize here is that the phrase should not be taken literally and as an excuse unless we are highly attained. What counts is creating the the merits first and foremost and the conditions for good karma to ripen.
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I do agree with what Klein has expressed his views on the phrase. I do have the similar problem with Klein which is finding hard to deal with negative emotions. My senior Dharma friend advices me to divert my focus to something more beneficial to others when the negative emotions arise.
Very often people around me was annoyed by my unstable emotions and hurtful speech that comes along with it, it draws people away. It comes to a point that i was so indulged in it where i do not realize my instability is actually hurting people around me. After a few slaps by this senior Dharma friend, i finally realize that I should battle this negativity and not let this knock me down, because if i continue this way, it will bring me nowhere and it's really killing me.
I find practicing 8 verses of mind training is really an effective way to eliminate my negative emotions and unstable mind. This is indeed useful.
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From the view point of karma, its not that which doesn’t kill you, strengthens you… but rather, exhausting all which has the potential to kill us is what will strengthen and free us from all harm.
I agree.
“What doesn't kill you, will strengthen you.” is similar to the following common sayings:
When the going gets tough the tough gets going!
Once bitten twice shy!
If someone had benefitted from negative situations and grew out of them, then it is a blessing in disguise to experience those negative situations. However for those who didn’t benefit from or able to cope with those negative situations, the result could be detrimental!
What strengthens us is to realize that there is hope for salvation from all the problems in life! True salvation comes from practising the Dharma purely and sincerely. Hence, when we understand adversity is a way to purify our negative karma, we can and would be willing to accept the adversity. Adversity doesn’t kill us; it strengthens our capability to deal with the next adversity!
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I do have this thought before I join dharma and mainly for samsaric reasoning which just make me in delusion more.
But when looking back to this saying again in dharmic point of view, it’s a turn over the negative view to push ourself to make it as success in our spiritual journey. In our dharma practice we often faces challenges but for the motivation of benefiting others. It even challenges our comfort zone to move forward but once we are able to turn this over it becoming a strong substance to make us move ahead.
Great saying that make me contemplate more.
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After we read all this and contemplate then what?
Do you know how many people survive the "crap" in life and it's sufferings and then they just sit back and say "This is life and there is nothing I can do. Just my bad karma." Then what? They are not killed, but are they stronger?
Also, I agree that when we surrender to all life's sufferings i.e. samsara, we are free from the attachment and thus can be liberated for a beneficial spiritual journey... But how many truly can do this?
Sorry to sound "rude" but it is frustrating to see how many people in this world who just sit back and blame bad karma. I so do not get this...
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I agree strongly that I am the type that will be stronger if it doesn't kill me. I believe so because I have been through many difficult patches in my life and I got through. Why would people want to commit suicide because of little things that they cannot overcome? Without Dharma, yes, I have thought of doing so but then I realised that wouldn't solve anything. With Dharma, the more I can look forward to in life. People are dying everyday because of accidents, old age, sickness, etc but those people who committed suicide thought its easier to just die. Pure selfishness and ignorance. What about the people who care so much about them? Think of the people who want to live but they cant. “What doesn't kill you, will strengthen you' is something we should remind ourselves daily and look forward to everything that is happening around us and be thankful because we can learn and benefit many others.
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What doesn't kill you, will strengthen you is the positive way of thinking which encourage us to achieve things in the higher level as we have experience about it before.
Well.. as most of time when we made a mistake or we failed in something, we always give excuses that it was new thing, we never have experience about it before ect.. Now we can do more and achieve more as we have experience, we learn from that so by logic we should produce a good result, isn't it.
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If we have this mindset of "what doesn't kill you, will strengthen you", it is a positive thinking as it will make us want to get out of our comfort zone, to push and challenge ourselves further and the end results will make us a stronger person. Failures are those who blame on everything except themselves on why they failed. As the saying goes "Winners are not people who never fail, but people who NEVER quit."
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The depth of "What doesn't kill you, will strengthen you" needs a lot of contemplation.
To me it would mean that after going through a very difficult time, event or circumstances and you can come out of it will create the stamina, wisdom and perseverance to never quit and continue towards our goal.
As in the example of practising the virtues of Dharma, it is not easy at all. To accomplish any results is basically to do what you normally will not do or what you will not like to do.
As mentioned often in this post, this practice will definitely push you out of your comfort zone and you will experience the limitless of your ability, whether you win or not. Winning and losing is a perception.