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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: Namdrol on April 22, 2012, 11:54:52 AM

Title: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Namdrol on April 22, 2012, 11:54:52 AM

Buddhists in genereal are very tolerant towards gays, lesbians and bisexuals, what are your views?


http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=70,10847,0,0,1,0 (http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=70,10847,0,0,1,0)

Buddhists come out for equality
Star Observer, 19 April 2012

Perth, Australia -- The House of Representatives public hearing on same-sex marriage, held at NSW Parliament on April 12, saw the largest non-Christian religious faith in Australia come out in support of marriage equality.

The Federation of Australian Buddhist Councils (FABC), representing Buddhist laypeople, and the Australian Sangha Association, representing Buddhist clergy, both put their support on the record.

Buddhist monk Bhante Sujato spoke on behalf of both groups.

“We should be focusing on the alleviation of human suffering, responding to human need,” Sujato told MPs.

A FABC submission to the Standing Committee on Social Policy and Legal Affairs by Bodhinyana Monastery abbot Ajahn Brahm said religion had never owned the institution of marriage.

“Marriage was not always a religious ceremony,” Brahm wrote.


“Well before Christianity and Islam appeared, and independent of any Jewish tradition, Buddhism recognised and supported marriage without claiming to have invented it. The fact is that the rite of marriage existed before religion, and thus no one faith can legitimately claim ownership of it.

“The suggestion that a civil contract is good enough for gays and lesbians is like throwing crumbs to the hungry. It is not acceptable to them, or to any other clear-thinking person.

“We owe it to the institution of marriage, and to those who are married, to extend its warmth to those who are presently excluded. Extending love can only make for a better society.”

Australia’s Buddhist community is as large as its Muslim and Jewish communities combined.

Union for Progressive Judaism executive director Steve Denenberg reiterated Progressive Judaism’s support for marriage equality at the hearing.

Denenberg later told J-Wire that he told the committee that, “based on our beliefs that each person is created in the image of God, the way that person expresses his or her sexuality, each person is equal”.

“Therefore, their rights for full participation in society should be equal, including the right to marry,” Denenberg said. “Equality would dictate that same-gender couples should be able to marry.”

Sikh and Hindu speakers at the hearing were either opposed or undecided.

The final number of submissions to the Senate inquiry into marriage equality was 75,000, the most an Australian Senate inquiry has ever received.

Of those, 44,000, or 59 percent, were in favour while 31,000 were against.

“The unprecedented level of support for this legislation reflects the fact that a majority of Australians support marriage equality and support it passionately,” Australian Marriage Equality national convenor Alex Greenwich said.

“The take-home message for our federal politicians is that the Australian public wants this reform and wants it now.”
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Positive Change on April 22, 2012, 02:23:23 PM
I find using the verb tolerant and Buddhist kinda redundant! First and foremost, should there be a difference at all? Whether one is gay, lesbian, bisexual, straight, weird, crazy, silly... whatever really. We all share the same planet... it is a choice and we make all sort of choices in life. Some bad some not. Who is to say what is wrong or what is right. Certainly not us judging each other...

I find articles such as these really off putting (nothing against your post Namdrol), but it really makes my blood boil that such an article is "newsworthy" in this day an age... sigh!

Having said that, it is I suppose a step in the right direction as that segment of society is still segregated after all this time! But kudos to the Australians for making the stance!
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: jeremyg on April 22, 2012, 02:45:18 PM
Quote
“We should be focusing on the alleviation of human suffering, responding to human need,” Sujato told MPs.

Firstly, I fully agree with this, if same sex marriage is an avenue to alleviate human suffering, then I do not see a reason to stop it. In my opinion the idea that we have to marry someone of the opposite sex, is just what has been implanted into society. Of course biologically it is natural, but if two people of the same sex love each other, just as two people of an opposite sex do, then why should we stop it, just because some religions say so. That is why buddhism is good, it accepts all. I mean after all in christianity if god created everyone equal, and in his image, and that person is gay for example, then why should we over write the power of god. I myself am buddhist, but this is just logical thinking, which brings me on to the next point:

Quote
Denenberg later told J-Wire that he told the committee that, “based on our beliefs that each person is created in the image of God, the way that person expresses his or her sexuality, each person is equal”.

“Therefore, their rights for full participation in society should be equal, including the right to marry,” Denenberg said. “Equality would dictate that same-gender couples should be able to marry.”

This i like very much. And we should not stop, or prohibit same sex marriage. Society is changing, so why are we going to be stuck in old fashioned viewpoints, and why are we going to limit our mind, by saying "this is the way it should be". We should just learn to accept everyone for who they are. Just because they have a certain sexual preference doesn't make them a bad person, in fact they could be better than you will ever be.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: sonamdhargey on April 22, 2012, 02:59:09 PM
I don't see what is wrong with having same sex marriage. Banning and imposing laws preventing gay, lesbian marriages Just because they are straight and are against their beliefs does not mean they are right. Basic humans rights of equality goes across all platforms if anyone want to be righteous about equality. That make them bias and only laws that suits them are allowed. What kind of double standard is that? Gays and lesbians are human beings too.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Galen on April 22, 2012, 05:06:32 PM
I don't see what is wrong with having same sex marriage. Banning and imposing laws preventing gay, lesbian marriages Just because they are straight and are against their beliefs does not mean they are right. Basic humans rights of equality goes across all platforms if anyone want to be righteous about equality. That make them bias and only laws that suits them are allowed. What kind of double standard is that? Gays and lesbians are human beings too.

I totally agree with you Sonamdhargey! THere should not be such laws in the first place. Putting such a law is discrimination already and now talking about why we should remove it. It is like creating a problem and then thinking of how to solve the problem when the problem did not exist in the first place. All are human beings who should have the freedom to choose who they want to be with.

And since society created the civil law of having a marriage certificate to be certified as married, so it is society who decides opposite sex marriages are legal and same sex marriage is illegal. Change it the other way around, and see how they feel?

In Buddhism, to me, marriage is a form of attachment. By right, we should not be getting married also. Think about it!
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: vajratruth on April 23, 2012, 02:42:14 AM
I applaud this move by the Australian Buddhist not because I am either pro or against same sex marriage, but simply because I am against any form of discrimination. Whether we are Buddhist or not we should regard everyone and every sentient being as equally entitled to be able to fulfill their happiness. 

It is important to everyone but particularly to those seeking higher understanding of spirituality to first transcend all that keeps us imprisoned within ourselves i.e. our own perceptions; and our projections of how things and people should; and our strong desire to impose rules agreeable to our minds unto others to comply.

Anything that makes us see the similarity between ourself and other people and sentient beings, rather than the differences, is something to promote and protect.

Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: kurava on April 23, 2012, 09:15:51 AM
Totally agree !

Buddhists fundamental philosophy is NOT TO CAUSE HARM , BRING HAPPINESS & ALLEVIATE SUFFERINGS.

If same sexes decide to get married, obviously they are confident that their matrimony will further enhance their relationship and bring happiness to each other. Law that forbids such matrimony will only bring frustration and pains to the couple, which is not Buddhist advocate.

By legally marrying gay couples, the couples are bound to observe fidelity towards each other. This will in turn reduce the spread of sexual diseases .

It is definitely a positive move for all concerned.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: kris on April 23, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
We live in this world where a "normal" marriage is between a male and female. That's why we have such a term called "same-sex" marriage.

We also live in a a world where a "normal" marriage it involves only 1 male and 1 female. But in not too distant past, there are marriages which involve multiple partners.

My point? Just because we are so used to "normal", we are easily caught up with the "no so normal" and keep asking if "we can accept them". Again, who are we to judge?

There is nothing wrong for being straight, gay/lesbian. What is not OK, is to be attached to sex. If a person is attached to sex, no matter the partner is different sex or same sex.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: triesa on April 23, 2012, 11:48:19 PM
When we really exercise "equality" for hummanity and the wish for happiness for all beings, then we should not oppose marriage of the same sex.

People who are gay, lesbian are like any of us, they want love and happiness. So if they are born to have the inclination for the same gender, so be it.

I know many conservative people are against this, think it is dirty, disgusting and adnormal, but  is it more disgusting when we hear news that the father is raping his own child and or a girl have been gang raped in our news every day!!  I personally find that is more disgusting as it is done without the consent of the other party.

It is true the society we are living in is very different than the time my parents were in. But by discrimination of same sex marriage,  we are creating more tension in the society, same with discrimination of other religions. At this age, it is all the more important to practice acceptance and equality. You can eat your tomatoes and I can eat my potatoes. It is all good. Everyone is happy.  What kris said in his post earlier is true, one of the causes of sufferings is the attachment to sex, as long as we are not attached to sex, being gay, Lesbian or straight is all fine, as long as one finds happiness and solace in his/her companion.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Jessie Fong on April 24, 2012, 11:54:12 AM
Marriage is a process when two people who love each other go one step further by making their relationship public and official.  It is two people joining in a bond. 

So if the marriage is between two people of the same sex, that does not make them any less a human being than we are.  They are also on the path seeking happiness for themselves together.  Even a marriage between a man and a woman does not guarantee life-time happiness, so what is wrong with two guys or two women marrying each other?
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: pgdharma on April 24, 2012, 02:12:09 PM
What rights do the straights have to set laws to prevent same sex marriage? Gays and lesbians are human beings too and they have a right to choose their partners. Every human being whether gays/lesbians/straights should have equal human rights. As long as the marriage last and they are happy with each other company there is nothing wrong with gays/lesbians marrying each other.

How would the straights feel if the majority of the world's population comprises of more gays/lesbians than straights and the gays/lesbians set a law to prevent marriage of two different sex? Won't they feel hurt that they are being discriminated? So let us live in harmony as human beings regardless of whether we are gays/lesbians or straights.

Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: negra orquida on April 24, 2012, 05:00:25 PM
Once my boss shared with me his theory that in the future marriage will become redundant.  Everyone probably knows about how divorce statistics are growing, how fertility rate is dropping, how men and women are getting married later... these trends shows that the idea of marriage and the importance place on it is changing, and these ideas are perhaps more prevalent in developed countries.  It is a matter of time that all countries become developed and follow this trend.  If this is indeed going to be the case in the future... what is the big hooha about who can marry who now?

The world is becoming more "gay friendly", and this way of thinking is consistent with Buddhist thinking.  People finally are appreciating the fact that gay or not, we all want happiness, we don't want suffering, we find happiness in different packages.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Q on April 24, 2012, 05:29:48 PM
This is just basic human characteristics... at least the ones that have shallow thinking. They always make an issue out of something that's not even worth thinking about, and in this case... making it a huge issue for same-sex marriages to be so called 'legal'.

Frankly speaking I'm not a firm supporter of marriages... be it straight or same-sex marriage. I think weddings is a total waste of time and resources. If we truly love someone, it should go beyond just getting married and starting a family like what most people do.

Weddings nowadays are just so commercialized... everyone seems to be doing it, so it makes people want it although it is not entirely necessary... Of course throughout the years, some laws and regulations regarding shared partnership to protect both parties since most of the time couples share assets etc.

However, despite my personal view that marriage is actually unnecessary.... i strongly think that it is one option that should be available for us!
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: bambi on April 26, 2012, 06:07:41 AM
I seriously do not mind having lesbians or gays as friends, in fact I have more of them as friends than the straight ones. I observed that they are kinder and more loving people compared to the straight ones. Whether it is because of religion or not, we have no rights to say what they can or cannot do. They didn't choose to be like that. Did any of you choose to be poor? Disabled? Nope. I don't think so. Why must we judge them for what they do? It's just a piece of paper with words that legally bind 2 people together!
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: DSFriend on April 26, 2012, 09:59:52 AM
If i recall correctly what I learnt during college days in Anthropology class, is that the institution of marriages started due to economic reasons, such as ownership of land, herds etc. There was no mention for such institution having started with the sole reason to preserve the "sanctity" of a male and female couple/relationship. The original reason hasn't changed that much since it first started...people are getting married because of financial benefits and securities. Without these benefits that are backed up by law, I'd think the statistics of married people will be much lower!

One thing main stream religion has contributed is by infusing its bollocks rules of what should and shouldn't be to constitute a "holy" union in terms of sexuality. It was never there before and now so much effort is being put in to re-educate the society to consider "hey, perhaps sexuality is not such a big deal after all"

Well, the mindset of society is of such today,.. so i will rejoice in whatever little progress, openness and acceptance I see.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: negra orquida on April 26, 2012, 04:13:35 PM
This is what His Holiness the 101st Gaden Tripa Lungrik Namgyal said about homosexuality (extracted from http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12258 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12258)):

Quote
Homosexuality seems to be getting more common in the world these days. Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, are both activities of samsara. Neither seems to be particularly better or worse than the other. Whether a man or woman is straight or gay does not make him or her any particularly better or worse than the other. In general, both are activities of lay people. Not that, however, that there is no karma involved in homosexuality, only that it is just like heterosexuality, another activity of samsara.


If we look at it this way, then yes DSFriend, there isn't much big deal about sexuality. Straight or gay, from the highest point of view, they are the same. 

I'm not so sure about homosexuality being more common "these days" tho... I thought it has been common all along just that its more acceptable nowadays.  If it is indeed "more common these days" compared to before, why is that so?
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Manjushri on April 26, 2012, 08:08:28 PM
This is what His Holiness the 101st Gaden Tripa Lungrik Namgyal said about homosexuality (extracted from [url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12258[/url] ([url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12258[/url])):

Quote
Homosexuality seems to be getting more common in the world these days. Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, are both activities of samsara. Neither seems to be particularly better or worse than the other. Whether a man or woman is straight or gay does not make him or her any particularly better or worse than the other. In general, both are activities of lay people. Not that, however, that there is no karma involved in homosexuality, only that it is just like heterosexuality, another activity of samsara.


If we look at it this way, then yes DSFriend, there isn't much big deal about sexuality. Straight or gay, from the highest point of view, they are the same. 

I'm not so sure about homosexuality being more common "these days" tho... I thought it has been common all along just that its more acceptable nowadays.  If it is indeed "more common these days" compared to before, why is that so?


I like the way HH Gaden Tripa Lungrik Namgyal put it in that both homosexuality/heterosexuality is just another activity in samsara. Marriage is just another activity in samsara, just like working, purchasing of houses and cars, travelling etc. Why do we get married in the first place? To make sure that the relationship is locked down, black and white? Because that is just what society thinks is normal in life? What makes the signing of 2 people on paper more valid than having a relationship without the signing of papers? The essence of the relationship should not be based on a contract, in hopes that each remains loyal. The foundation of the relationship is based on the relationship itself, between both parties, and the respect they have for each other. The 'marriage' of two people should be based on respect, loyalty, trust, love, care, kindness and forgiveness towards each other. If that is absent, even if the 2 are married, it will not work. So then, why the need for papers?

Same-sex or not, it doesn't matter. The physicality of one is perceived by our senses, judged by our minds with influence from society and years of deluded thoughts. Same-sex relationships are just as strong as relationships between opposite genders - who are we to say that same-sex relationships are invalid, when it is all based on the one common thing - love.

I am pretty sure it is more common these days because more people are coming out, more people are accepting it. It may be a culture fad, but I'm pretty sure it is more of a shift in society's progression towards open-mindedness these days and the many across the world who courageously fought over the years for their rights. Human Rights.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Positive Change on April 27, 2012, 06:26:34 AM
Totally agree !

Buddhists fundamental philosophy is NOT TO CAUSE HARM , BRING HAPPINESS & ALLEVIATE SUFFERINGS.

If same sexes decide to get married, obviously they are confident that their matrimony will further enhance their relationship and bring happiness to each other. Law that forbids such matrimony will only bring frustration and pains to the couple, which is not Buddhist advocate.

By legally marrying gay couples, the couples are bound to observe fidelity towards each other. This will in turn reduce the spread of sexual diseases .

It is definitely a positive move for all concerned.

Dear Kurava,

With regards to what I have highlighted from your post, you probably did not mean it intentionally, however what you shared above could be seen as derogatory and a sweeping statements of sorts, implying that the spread of sexual diseases are by the gay/homosexual segment of society!

Infidelity in this day an age in society is across the board, however, it may seem more prevalent in gay scenes as it is more "in your face" so to speak. That does not mean they are the only ones. Statistically, brothels frequented by heterosexual men are one of the leading causes for the spread of sexual diseases. That in itself could be a sweeping statement so let us not generalize and look at the topic at hand please.

I dislike one sided statements or inequality... thank you... :)
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: ilikeshugden on April 27, 2012, 02:01:10 PM
I rejoice that this Australian Buddhist approves of same sex marriages. I might be straight but I do have friends who are gay so I do hear stories about the problems that they have to endure. Also, I think that love transcends all and love should not just be limited by our gender. Also, I find that people do get ostracized from their friends if they decide to choose that form of sexuality. This is actually similar to Dorje Shugden practitioners as they are ostracized from their monastic institutes and abandoned by their friends. I find this very sad. I wish that governments around the world would just allow love to be spread regardless of gender.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Tammy on April 28, 2012, 02:59:54 AM
I find using the verb tolerant and Buddhist kinda redundant! First and foremost, should there be a difference at all? Whether one is gay, lesbian, bisexual, straight, weird, crazy, silly... whatever really. We all share the same planet... it is a choice and we make all sort of choices in life. Some bad some not. Who is to say what is wrong or what is right. Certainly not us judging each other...

I find articles such as these really off putting (nothing against your post Namdrol), but it really makes my blood boil that such an article is "newsworthy" in this day an age... sigh!

Having said that, it is I suppose a step in the right direction as that segment of society is still segregated after all this time! But kudos to the Australians for making the stance!

Positive Change - Thank you thank you !! You got the words right out of my 'mouth'!

Really, in this days and age, it is really sad that most people are STILL discriminating fellow human beings based on their sexual preference, race, religious believe etc etc etc the list is endless! Sentient beings are born EQUAL because we are our own karma and be responsible to our own actions.

Putting other issues aside, why should we discriminate other people just because they are not like the rest of us? Same sex marriage is just like the rest of the 'straight' people, they love each other and want to spend the rest of the lives to be with each other - what's wrong with that? It is just happen that these people have close affinity with people who are born same sex with them this life time. period.

 
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Positive Change on April 29, 2012, 07:16:32 PM
I find using the verb tolerant and Buddhist kinda redundant! First and foremost, should there be a difference at all? Whether one is gay, lesbian, bisexual, straight, weird, crazy, silly... whatever really. We all share the same planet... it is a choice and we make all sort of choices in life. Some bad some not. Who is to say what is wrong or what is right. Certainly not us judging each other...

I find articles such as these really off putting (nothing against your post Namdrol), but it really makes my blood boil that such an article is "newsworthy" in this day an age... sigh!

Having said that, it is I suppose a step in the right direction as that segment of society is still segregated after all this time! But kudos to the Australians for making the stance!

Positive Change - Thank you thank you !! You got the words right out of my 'mouth'!

Really, in this days and age, it is really sad that most people are STILL discriminating fellow human beings based on their sexual preference, race, religious believe etc etc etc the list is endless! Sentient beings are born EQUAL because we are our own karma and be responsible to our own actions.

Putting other issues aside, why should we discriminate other people just because they are not like the rest of us? Same sex marriage is just like the rest of the 'straight' people, they love each other and want to spend the rest of the lives to be with each other - what's wrong with that? It is just happen that these people have close affinity with people who are born same sex with them this life time. period.

To add to your post Tammy... if we believe in reincarnation and hence previous lives, the logic is we certainly have been both male and female before... so regardless of what sex we are in this lifetiime, we are technically BOTH gay and straight as we have been both male and female... :p
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Rihanna on May 02, 2012, 01:02:33 PM
Buddhist are not the ones who discriminates same sex marriage. I personally don't think its a bad idea. People should be free to choose the way they want to live their lives. They are not harming anyone by getting married. I just feel that if they have the karma to together as a couple, in what capacity are to question their choice. why are we discriminating them even? It is of course different from our so called normal society but it is not their fault either to be falling in love. Its the two minds that can find peace together and take care of each other.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Klein on May 06, 2012, 10:59:39 AM
This is what His Holiness the 101st Gaden Tripa Lungrik Namgyal said about homosexuality (extracted from [url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12258[/url] ([url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12258[/url])):

Quote
Homosexuality seems to be getting more common in the world these days. Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, are both activities of samsara. Neither seems to be particularly better or worse than the other. Whether a man or woman is straight or gay does not make him or her any particularly better or worse than the other. In general, both are activities of lay people. Not that, however, that there is no karma involved in homosexuality, only that it is just like heterosexuality, another activity of samsara.


If we look at it this way, then yes DSFriend, there isn't much big deal about sexuality. Straight or gay, from the highest point of view, they are the same. 

I'm not so sure about homosexuality being more common "these days" tho... I thought it has been common all along just that its more acceptable nowadays.  If it is indeed "more common these days" compared to before, why is that so?


It's so true. In a nut shell, desire is desire. Just "another activity of samsara". As long as it's between consenting people, there's nothing wrong with same-sex marriage. Nobody is being hurt or suffering in these relationships. If family members and or friends are emotionally hurt, it's due to their fixated mind set of how life should be. And if they are really so wise, all of them would be Buddhas by now.

That's what I like about Buddhism. There is no discrimination and segregation of people and animals. It's all about compassion and tolerance. There so many other pressing issues like pollution, slavery, wars and famine. Shouldn't we be focused on alleviating issues like that?
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: RedLantern on May 06, 2012, 01:25:16 PM
People are people regardless of race,gender,religion,and sexuality.They should have the same rights as others have.It's not about religion,marriage is supposed to be between a man,a woman and anything.They have the human right to love whoever they want to. Any person has every right to seek happiness,whether that happiness is found in someone of the same gender.To deny someone that right because they are different is being closed minded.
Look at the interracial marriage which are considered taboo and wrong by older generations,but now when they happen the are perfectly acceptable.It's an evolutionary change.Changes happen and we can either accept them or fight them and make life harder for everyone.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: ratanasutra on June 16, 2012, 04:12:23 PM
i learn that buddhist country is open more about this and accept the same-sex marriage. And also the citizen in country also agree for it. I guess as the religion teach them to accept in the different and look at people happiness therefore they accept it. As same-sex marriage do not create any problem to anyone or in society, instead they create more harmony and good energy in society. 
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: thor on June 17, 2012, 05:06:03 PM
Quote
In a 1994 interview with OUT Magazine, the Dalai Lama clarified his personal opinion on the matter by saying, "If someone comes to me and asks whether homosexuality is okay or not, I will ask 'What is your companion's opinion?'. If you both agree, then I think I would say, 'If two males or two females voluntarily agree to have mutual satisfaction without further implication of harming others, then it is okay.'"

From a buddhist point of view, I totally agree that there is no difference in the Samsaric attachment in either a gay or straight relationship. In our refuge vows, the closest that applies to gay marriage is about no sexual misconduct. My refuge teacher has explained that this means not causing harm or hurt to anyone through our "sexual" actions.

So what the dalai lama has said rings deep in me, and I am glad to hear the outcome in Australia.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: diamond girl on June 17, 2012, 07:19:37 PM
Buddhism is a religion which practices compassion as such accepting same-sex marriage is nothing surprising. Personally I am not supportive of same-sex marriage as it does not conform to what I was brought up to believe. However, learning much about Buddhism - and in this post about removing human suffering - I can understand that in practising Buddhism, I should not be fixed in my thinking about same-sex marriage. Then again, there are articles like this which makes me think again:

http://www.evangelical.us/homosexuality/buddhism.html (http://www.evangelical.us/homosexuality/buddhism.html)

This says in Buddhism, homosexuality is not allowed... Thus, this is still a debatable topic. 
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: fruven on June 17, 2012, 09:30:31 PM

I totally agree with you Sonamdhargey! THere should not be such laws in the first place. Putting such a law is discrimination already and now talking about why we should remove it. It is like creating a problem and then thinking of how to solve the problem when the problem did not exist in the first place. All are human beings who should have the freedom to choose who they want to be with.

And since society created the civil law of having a marriage certificate to be certified as married, so it is society who decides opposite sex marriages are legal and same sex marriage is illegal. Change it the other way around, and see how they feel?

In Buddhism, to me, marriage is a form of attachment. By right, we should not be getting married also. Think about it!

In addition,

Laws are created by human and can be changed.

If only heterosexual marriage are allowed, does it not mean straights want everyone to support and being approved of sex between different sexes, if homosexual marriage are allowed they feel kind of threaten in their space and what they think of.

If i recall correctly what I learnt during college days in Anthropology class, is that the institution of marriages started due to economic reasons, such as ownership of land, herds etc. There was no mention for such institution having started with the sole reason to preserve the "sanctity" of a male and female couple/relationship. The original reason hasn't changed that much since it first started...people are getting married because of financial benefits and securities. Without these benefits that are backed up by law, I'd think the statistics of married people will be much lower!

One thing main stream religion has contributed is by infusing its bollocks rules of what should and shouldn't be to constitute a "holy" union in terms of sexuality. It was never there before and now so much effort is being put in to re-educate the society to consider "hey, perhaps sexuality is not such a big deal after all"

Well, the mindset of society is of such today,.. so i will rejoice in whatever little progress, openness and acceptance I see.

Imagine the laws are created to ban heterosexual marriage, or even banning marriage. With no marriage law, you can be together and stay under one root but you won't get a certificate or anything beneficial. But then again some will interpret it as they can do whatever they wish since there is no marriage law.  :P
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: lightning on June 18, 2012, 04:33:43 PM
Hi Folks,
Sorry i am speaking honestly about how i feel about this issue, please do not flame me. My guts feeling is that something is very amiss when you agreed to the same sex marriage or union.
This is something that is out of "natural". If you guys agreed upon it, next moment we may hear something bizarre somewhere such as they are people who agree upon incest etc. some people agree upon mouth, anal etc. ???

Are we out of Dharma context??? Is there someone with appropriate Dharma knowledge , such as some Rinpoche care to explain such topic? All along Buddha taught us the nature of the universal laws and emptiness, I do not recall hearing Buddha preaching on same sex union?

It is due to the ripening of karma that certain people have such behavior, hence there is no reason to discriminate them and neither to encourage such behavior, if some of  those people who could be converted back to straight.

Or maybe we should consult our Spiritual Guide for advice, before inputting self opinionated views here? 
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: lightning on June 18, 2012, 04:54:52 PM
BTW i would definitely not rejoice for same sex marriage or union, as this is resultant of negative karma that befall upon these folks. The teachings of Buddha taught us to follow and respect the nature of how things are supposed to be. Not to go against the nature.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: dsiluvu on June 18, 2012, 07:11:56 PM
BTW i would definitely not rejoice for same sex marriage or union, as this is resultant of negative karma that befall upon these folks. The teachings of Buddha taught us to follow and respect the nature of how things are supposed to be. Not to go against the nature.

Is there any where in any "scriptures" that says it is wrong to love or fall inlove with the same sex???

In the Vinaya (regulations for Buddhist monks), the Buddha states that those who openly expressed cross-gender features or strong homosexual desires and actions may not become a monk. Note that just having homosexual desires eliminates the person from the possibility of being a Buddhist monk.

The rest seems like just opinions... translations of what it exactly means. And well look if His Holiness can be open about it and says; "Whether a man or woman is straight or gay does not make him or her any particularly better or worse than the other. In general, both are activities of lay people."

I take this to mean that Karma supersedes your sexual preferences lol.

In my opinion I think it is okay as long as these are two people who respected and love each other and does not harm anyone. If it is an indication of the degenerate times then we really cannot help it can we as these are natural causes and conditions. So instead of being disgusted by these acts, should we not apply the compassionate Dharma we have learnt and accept these beings as they are beings too and they just have a different preference as do you? And isn't all just a matter of different perceptions of what you have been brought up to think and imputed in to your preconceptions which Dharma says is not TRUE also???

So in the end there is really no BLACK or WHITE - YES DESIRE IS DESIRE. So just be and as long as no one is causing any harm, i do not see any harm. And how beautiful that they can also have Dharma in their lives better then no Dharma at all!
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Positive Change on June 19, 2012, 03:57:05 PM
Well Kurava, I appreciate your honesty and opinion... however, personally I feel your statements are flawed on many levels. Why I say so, please allow me to share MY opinion:

Hi Folks,
Sorry i am speaking honestly about how i feel about this issue, please do not flame me. My guts feeling is that something is very amiss when you agreed to the same sex marriage or union.
This is something that is out of "natural". If you guys agreed upon it, next moment we may hear something bizarre somewhere such as they are people who agree upon incest etc. some people agree upon mouth, anal etc. ???

What is natural? What is bizarre? What is the gauge one has but one's own perceptions right? So are you saying your perception is better than another? Sure there are also the perceptions of society in general too, in that it sets certain precedence but that in itself is based on a larger consensus which is a lot fairer than say one persons opinion for all! I am not condoning nor am I against this but merely trying to appeal to your being absolute on your views.

Are we out of Dharma context??? Is there someone with appropriate Dharma knowledge , such as some Rinpoche care to explain such topic? All along Buddha taught us the nature of the universal laws and emptiness, I do not recall hearing Buddha preaching on same sex union?

Buddha taught us about emptiness, Buddha taught us non attachment... desire being one of our attachments. So regardless of whether two people are in a heterosexual or homosexual relationship, there is no distinction, it is a form of attachment! So let us not focus on OMB, it is about same sex union but focus on hey, they are people too and they have rights like everyone else!

It is due to the ripening of karma that certain people have such behavior, hence there is no reason to discriminate them and neither to encourage such behavior, if some of  those people who could be converted back to straight.

I have heard of these so called "converts" you speak of and I have only one word for that... CONVOLUTED!

Or maybe we should consult our Spiritual Guide for advice, before inputting self opinionated views here?

No disrespect meant, but this is after all a forum... an open forum at that. It is here to discourse, to debate and share... This is how we learn and not from the comfort of our shells!
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: lightning on June 20, 2012, 03:49:18 PM
Finally I have an answer today that confirm my guts feeling. Yeah, sometimes guts feeling not not be always right, but serve as an indicator to make us find out what is right or wrong. Homosexual activities is not to be encouraged or something to rejoice about.  The engagement of sexual activities of homosexual is not normal, as anal and mouth sex is involved and considered as a sexual misconduct. It is considered as a violation to one of the 5 primary vows.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: lightning on June 20, 2012, 06:03:54 PM
In the West, human rights are heavily and over-emphasized, but we must rely on what is right from the wisdom of the Buddha's teachings and seek appropriate assistance and advice from a reliable Spiritual Guide who can give appropriate advice.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Big Uncle on June 20, 2012, 07:00:52 PM
Finally I have an answer today that confirm my guts feeling. Yeah, sometimes guts feeling not not be always right, but serve as an indicator to make us find out what is right or wrong. Homosexual activities is not to be encouraged or something to rejoice about.  The engagement of sexual activities of homosexual is not normal, as anal and mouth sex is involved and considered as a sexual misconduct. It is considered as a violation to one of the 5 primary vows.

You have an interesting viewpoint here. Buddha has never talked about homosexuality as an unnatural act. In fact, he was silent about it. The 5 primary vows you talked about is to refrain from all heterosexual and homosexual activities. Buddha devised these vows to curb ALL sexuality and I believe these vows are specifically for the monastics who are training to transcend ordinary desire.

I think your issue is not that homosexual acts are unnatural. It is about your prejudices and your preconceived notion that homosexuality is unnatural. This is not a good mindset to operate from because it is the basis for homophobia and its not really about human rights.   
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: lightning on June 20, 2012, 08:53:23 PM
Finally I have an answer today that confirm my guts feeling. Yeah, sometimes guts feeling not not be always right, but serve as an indicator to make us find out what is right or wrong. Homosexual activities is not to be encouraged or something to rejoice about.  The engagement of sexual activities of homosexual is not normal, as anal and mouth sex is involved and considered as a sexual misconduct. It is considered as a violation to one of the 5 primary vows.

You have an interesting viewpoint here. Buddha has never talked about homosexuality as an unnatural act. In fact, he was silent about it. The 5 primary vows you talked about is to refrain from all heterosexual and homosexual activities. Buddha devised these vows to curb ALL sexuality and I believe these vows are specifically for the monastics who are training to transcend ordinary desire.

I think your issue is not that homosexual acts are unnatural. It is about your prejudices and your preconceived notion that homosexuality is unnatural. This is not a good mindset to operate from because it is the basis for homophobia and its not really about human rights.   
If you are thinking logically, how does homosexual activities are conducted, the sexual organs are connecting at unsuitable places. What is defintition of sexual misconduct? We are not having prejudices at homosexual, but the it is a fact that the sexual activity between homosexual is sexual misconduct itself. I have consulted from reliable sources.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: lightning on June 21, 2012, 01:40:44 AM
From the beginning, when I have started replying, I stressed that I do not have prejudices, in fact we are all human beings and viewed with equality.

What I cannot stand to see is the many bizarre congratulation and encouragement over homosexuality is accepted under Buddhism??? Like previously, I have commented on what is wrong by having Buddha pictures and DS on human bodies, especially not on those who had empowerment before??? Maybe there are some folk may not like what I am saying, but I am pointing whether are the Buddha's teaching that we are upholding as Gelugpa is thinking correctly and having correct view? By now many have known that Gelugpa is the best of four Vajrayana sect and also known as Manjushri sect. I also feel that we should shared what we learnt from our Spiritual Guides and not to share what we feel.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Ensapa on June 21, 2012, 04:33:22 AM
According to the vinaya, there was once a gay man who was ordained during the Buddha's time and somehow, he lost his inhibitions while in his robes and the story goes:

Quote
The Story of the Prohibition of the Ordination of Pandaka

At that time a Pandaka had been ordained in a residence of monks. He went to the young monks and encouraged them thus, 'Come all of you and assault  me." The monks spoke aggressively, "Pandaka, you will surely be ruined. pandaka, you will surely be [spiritually] destroyed. Of what benefit will it be?" Having been spoken to aggressively by the monks, he went to some large, stout novices and encouraged them thus, "Come all of you and assault me." The novices spoke aggressively. "Pandaka, you will surely be ruined. Pandaka, you will surely be destroyed. Of what benefit will it be?" Having been spoken to aggressively by the novices, the pandaka went to men who tend elephants and horses and spoke to them thus. "Come all of you and assault me." The men who tend elephants and horses assaulted him and then publicly blamed, rebuked and criticised [the sangha], saying, "A samana of the lineage of the son of the Sakyas is a pandaka and these samanas, even those who are not pandakas themselves, assault the ordained pandakas. When such is the case these samanas are not practising brahmacariya (celibacy)." The monks heard the men who tend elephants and who tend horses blaming, rebuking and criticising thus and informed the Blessed One of the matter.

The Blessed One then ordered the monks, "Behold monks. a pandaka is one who is not to be ordained. Monks should not give them ordination and those who have been ordained must be made to disrobe" (Vinaya, Vol. 4, pp. 141-142).

In case you have not figured it out yet, "destroy me" is a very polite way of saying penetrate me.

a Pandaka in the vinaya context (theravardan) has 5 categories. Anyone who fits into these categories are not allowed ordination in the orthodox buddhist context:

Quote
asittakapandaka—A man who gains sexual satisfaction from performing oral sex on another man and from ingesting his semen, or who only becomes sexually aroused after having ingested another man's semen (ibid. :235-236).
ussuyapandaka—A voyeur, a man or woman who gains sexual satisfaction merely from watching a man and a woman having sex (ibid. :236).
opakkamikapandaka—Eunuchs, that is, castrated men lacking complete sexual organs. Unlike the other four types of pandaka Bunmi describes, these men attain their condition after birth and are not born as pandaka (ibid.:236). 15
pakkhapandaka—PeopIe who by the force of past misdeeds become sexually aroused in parallel with the phases of the moon, either becoming sexually aroused during the two week period of the waning moon (Pali: kalapakkha) and ceasing to be sexually aroused during the fortnight of the waxing moon (Pali: junhapakkha) or, conversely, becoming sexually aroused during the period of the waxing moon and ceasing to be sexually aroused during the period of the waning moon (ibid.:236). 16
napumsakapandaka (also sometimes called simply napumsaka)—A person with no clearly defined genitals, whether male or female, having only a urinary tract (ibid. :237). Another definition of a napumsaka given by Bunmi is, "a [male] person who is not able to engage in activities like a man" (ibid. :239). Elsewhere Bunmi adds that napumsakapandaka are born without any genital organs as punishment for having castrated animals in a past life (ibid. :267). 17

Homosexuality is tolerated in Buddhism, but they are not allowed ordination due to the incident described above.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Positive Change on June 22, 2012, 01:45:35 PM
Dear Lightning… I mean no disrespect here, but seeing as we are in a public forum and hence healthy debates are good for us to learn and open our minds I would like to once again clarify your contradictory statements. Firstly, if one has no prejudices, one would not make such one sided and absolute sweeping statements. Why I say this? Please allow me to explain below in RED:

From the beginning, when I have started replying, I stressed that I do not have prejudices, in fact we are all human beings and viewed with equality.
We are indeed all sentient beings viewed not only with equality but also with tolerance and compassion… the true Buddhist practice!

What I cannot stand to see is the many bizarre congratulation and encouragement over homosexuality is accepted under Buddhism???
What is so bizarre about accepting people for who they are? Perhaps it is strange coming from a closed and biased mind. Perhaps it is strange coming from preconceived judgments or one sided opinion? All these point to a prejudiced mind!

Like previously, I have commented on what is wrong by having Buddha pictures and DS on human bodies, especially not on those who had empowerment before???
To view or gaze upon the image of a Buddha is in itself a great blessing. What is more to have an image of a Buddha on our bodies?  To have a Dorje Shugden pendant touching our skin is an incredible blessing and rarity! What does having empowerments of not have to do with wanting to keep a sacred image of a Buddha on our bodies… to remind us of the true potential we can become… to rid ourselves of our attachments, our selfishness and even our prejudices that keep us in samsara.

Maybe there are some folk may not like what I am saying, but I am pointing whether are the Buddha's teaching that we are upholding as Gelugpa is thinking correctly and having correct view?
Maybe? Perhaps you are deluded into thinking there are many who share your views in this day and age and that your views are perhaps pure in comparison to others. A conclusion like that seems very much prejudice to me!

By now many have known that Gelugpa is the best of four Vajrayana sect and also known as Manjushri sect.
If this is not a prejudiced statement I do not know what is!!! I rest my case!

I also feel that we should share what we learnt from our Spiritual Guides and not to share what we feel.
If we regurgitate merely the words of our so called Spiritual Guides without contemplating, taking it to heart, understanding it and actually believing it to be true, we have once again practiced a prejudiced thought.

Seems like your entire post is prejudiced, I am sorry to say… once again I do not mean this with malice but merely wanting you to look beyond the absoluteness of your thinking and come back down to earth so to speak. We are Buddhist after all and healthy debate is always a breath of fresh air. I do hope you can put aside your prejudices aside and at least agree with me on this point… if not, perhaps best you create a blog site where you can air your own beliefs but if you want to participate in a forum, you need to be open to constructive criticism.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: thor on June 23, 2012, 08:25:39 PM
Lightning - would you prefer it if Buddhism is something like this instead? Doesnt it cause more damage?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/23/gay-mormons-marry-women_n_1620142.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/23/gay-mormons-marry-women_n_1620142.html)

Quote
Should Gay Mormons Marry Women? Some Say It's An Option

SALT LAKE CITY (RNS) In the summer of 2008, Sarah Irish Nicholson's well-ordered Mormon life was unraveling, and she needed someone to talk to.

Nicholson's husband of 13 years, whom she had loved since they were madrigal partners in high school, told her he was gay. Latter-day Saints in her suburban neighborhood west of Salt Lake City kept saying gay-rights advocacy was Satan's work, she said.

Though the couple remained together at first, several local Mormon leaders were not only unsympathetic, they also were openly hostile to the news.

Nicholson, who still was clinging to her LDS faith, wanted a place to share stories, cry, laugh and encourage. She turned to straightspouse.org, an umbrella organization for some 55 similar groups.

But she felt many of those posting there were bitter and just wanted to vent. So she launched straightspouses.org, which invites people to join a private Facebook support group.

Last fall, there were 14 members. Today there are 45, mostly Utah Mormons, but some in other states and other faiths.

Now the rest of the world is taking note of Mormon "mixed-orientation marriages," as they have become known, thanks to a recent blog post in which Josh Weed and his wife, Lolly, told the story of their relationship.

Weed, a marriage and family therapist in the Northwest, has known he was gay since his teens, and Lolly was the first person he told. They've been married 10 years and have three daughters.

Weed's post went viral, generating more than 3,000 comments, and he was inundated with media requests.

Yet if Josh and Lolly Weed have become the LDS' best-known "mixed-orientation marriage," the stories of other couples in similar circumstances show there is no single answer for every situation.

Just a few weeks before Weed's revelation, a similar story was making the rounds in LDS circles when Ty Mansfield, a gay Mormon married to a woman, was featured on the May/June cover of LDS Living magazine.

In 2004, Mansfield wrote a section of the book "In Quiet Desperation: Understanding the Challenge of Same-Gender Attraction." As a single man with same-sex attractions, he didn't believe he would ever marry. Six years later, he met the woman who would become his wife.

"Sexuality is more fluid than we think," Mansfield, a therapist in Texas, said in an interview. "Everything fell into place, and we took that step. It continues to feel like it's the right move for me."

Some Mormons are also becoming more open about their decisions.

When The Salt Lake Tribune profiled three mixed-orientation marriages in 2006, for example, the article included the Weeds. At the time, Josh Weed insisted on using a pseudonym.

"For 10 years, I felt strongly we needed to keep things quiet," Weed said in an interview from his home in Auburn, Wash. "Then that changed. My wife voiced it first. We needed to be more authentic. It was time to tell our story."

On the other hand, another gay man in The Tribune piece, who lives in the Midwest and used the pseudonym "Landon," still guards his privacy.

"Our relationship continues to be like any marriage," he said in a recent interview. "Our commitment is not influenced by that [orientation] issue."

The most open couple in the article was Ben and Jessie Christensen, of Orem, Utah.

Jessie knew Ben was gay before they married but believed they could make it work. They had two kids in 2006 and were upbeat about the future. Now they have one more child and divorced last year.

"I still think that getting married to Ben was a good decision and that it was the right one at the time," Jessie writes in an email.

Ultimately, it may have been Ben's loss of faith that doomed the marriage.

"Neither of us realized at the time how much his homosexuality affected his membership in the church and his feelings about the gospel," she writes.

Jessie is a "wonderful, wonderful person. I love her as much as I ever did," Ben said. But he said he felt dead inside, conflicted and without peace. Now Ben hopes to find a man to marry as he continues to love and support his children.

Jessica Rodgers Trueman and her husband, who came out to her right before their 10th wedding anniversary, also eventually divorced. The pair met in the theater department at college. She had known LDS gays her whole life and saw no reason why anyone would be closeted.

So it "rocked her world" when, her husband, an active Mormon, told Trueman he was gay. He also wanted to keep his orientation a secret. "I didn't know who to talk to, didn't know who I could trust," she said. "I felt ashamed."

Friends in her Idaho ward have been "incredibly loving and kind," Trueman said. But she saw her husband slip into depression, disengagement and unemployment.

Finally, her husband got a spiritual confirmation that God loved him as he was. She knew then that they should get divorced, and both would get through it.

Trueman has recently found solace in Nicholson's support group. After all, the organization's founder shares her story.

When Nicholson's husband came out, the couple, who had four kids, stayed together. Then they had a fifth child -- a pregnancy that was tough on her body and on her mind.

She had lost her Mormon community and worried that her marriage was over. One night, she recalls, she cried out to God, "Just let me die in childbirth. I don't want to do this anymore."

Now, she is divorced and finds purpose in reaching out to other Mormon women facing a similar challenge.

She feels she has an important role to play -- sort of like a church calling.

(Peggy Fletcher Stack writes for The Salt Lake Tribune.)
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: negra orquida on June 24, 2012, 12:55:18 PM
Here is Kalu Rinpoche's stand on this topic (http://kalurinpochela.org/gays-lesbians-are-welcome-in-my-world/ (http://kalurinpochela.org/gays-lesbians-are-welcome-in-my-world/)):

Quote
In a lot of religions in this world, gays and lesbians are not accepted… from my point of view, and I would say from a Buddhist point of view, gay and lesbian are welcome in my world. I’m happy to see how they love and take responsibility for each other and for their family.

Buddha never said to be gay is not good; to be lesbian is not good.

Buddha only cares about your happiness. God only cares for your happiness. If they do not care about your happiness, what are they talking about?  What is their point?

So don’t be sad, don’t be unhappy if you are gay or lesbian.

In a relationship, it is appreciation of the other that is most important. This is the quality that will bring you happiness… whether you are heterosexual, gay or lesbian.

In some relationships love comes first, deep appreciation comes later; in others appreciation comes first and love comes later. It doesn’t matter as long as you are happy in yourself and happy in your relationship.


Straight, gay, bi, lesbian... ultimately a homosexual and a heterosexual marriage is the same thing.. a relationship between two people who want to be happy and want to give happiness to each other.  That being said, i wonder why homosexuality wasn't as acceptable in the olden days, and why other religions reject it? as more and more people "come out of the closet", i wonder if the other "intolerant" religions will change their stance.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: lightning on June 25, 2012, 02:31:35 AM
Here is Kalu Rinpoche's stand on this topic ([url]http://kalurinpochela.org/gays-lesbians-are-welcome-in-my-world/[/url] ([url]http://kalurinpochela.org/gays-lesbians-are-welcome-in-my-world/[/url])):

Quote
In a lot of religions in this world, gays and lesbians are not accepted… from my point of view, and I would say from a Buddhist point of view, gay and lesbian are welcome in my world. I’m happy to see how they love and take responsibility for each other and for their family.

Buddha never said to be gay is not good; to be lesbian is not good.

Buddha only cares about your happiness. God only cares for your happiness. If they do not care about your happiness, what are they talking about?  What is their point?

So don’t be sad, don’t be unhappy if you are gay or lesbian.

In a relationship, it is appreciation of the other that is most important. This is the quality that will bring you happiness… whether you are heterosexual, gay or lesbian.

In some relationships love comes first, deep appreciation comes later; in others appreciation comes first and love comes later. It doesn’t matter as long as you are happy in yourself and happy in your relationship.


Straight, gay, bi, lesbian... ultimately a homosexual and a heterosexual marriage is the same thing.. a relationship between two people who want to be happy and want to give happiness to each other.  That being said, i wonder why homosexuality wasn't as acceptable in the olden days, and why other religions reject it? as more and more people "come out of the closet", i wonder if the other "intolerant" religions will change their stance.

Kalu Rinpoche is a Karma Kagyu Spiritual Guide, we are basing on Gelug teachings to debate and the understanding of karma can be very detailed and refined that certain stand points may be omitted if one is not observant enough.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: lightning on June 25, 2012, 04:44:41 AM
Dear Lightning… I mean no disrespect here, but seeing as we are in a public forum and hence healthy debates are good for us to learn and open our minds I would like to once again clarify your contradictory statements. Firstly, if one has no prejudices, one would not make such one sided and absolute sweeping statements. Why I say this? Please allow me to explain below in RED:

From the beginning, when I have started replying, I stressed that I do not have prejudices, in fact we are all human beings and viewed with equality.
We are indeed all sentient beings viewed not only with equality but also with tolerance and compassion… the true Buddhist practice!

What I cannot stand to see is the many bizarre congratulation and encouragement over homosexuality is accepted under Buddhism???
What is so bizarre about accepting people for who they are? Perhaps it is strange coming from a closed and biased mind. Perhaps it is strange coming from preconceived judgments or one sided opinion? All these point to a prejudiced mind!

Like previously, I have commented on what is wrong by having Buddha pictures and DS on human bodies, especially not on those who had empowerment before???
To view or gaze upon the image of a Buddha is in itself a great blessing. What is more to have an image of a Buddha on our bodies?  To have a Dorje Shugden pendant touching our skin is an incredible blessing and rarity! What does having empowerments of not have to do with wanting to keep a sacred image of a Buddha on our bodies… to remind us of the true potential we can become… to rid ourselves of our attachments, our selfishness and even our prejudices that keep us in samsara.

Maybe there are some folk may not like what I am saying, but I am pointing whether are the Buddha's teaching that we are upholding as Gelugpa is thinking correctly and having correct view?
Maybe? Perhaps you are deluded into thinking there are many who share your views in this day and age and that your views are perhaps pure in comparison to others. A conclusion like that seems very much prejudice to me!

By now many have known that Gelugpa is the best of four Vajrayana sect and also known as Manjushri sect.
If this is not a prejudiced statement I do not know what is!!! I rest my case!

I also feel that we should share what we learnt from our Spiritual Guides and not to share what we feel.
If we regurgitate merely the words of our so called Spiritual Guides without contemplating, taking it to heart, understanding it and actually believing it to be true, we have once again practiced a prejudiced thought.

Seems like your entire post is prejudiced, I am sorry to say… once again I do not mean this with malice but merely wanting you to look beyond the absoluteness of your thinking and come back down to earth so to speak. We are Buddhist after all and healthy debate is always a breath of fresh air. I do hope you can put aside your prejudices aside and at least agree with me on this point… if not, perhaps best you create a blog site where you can air your own beliefs but if you want to participate in a forum, you need to be open to constructive criticism.
First of all maybe I could not appropriately smooth-en my sentences during my reply, let me apologize for that and I meant well and wished that we are heading towards the correct direction during discussion as many would be learning and taken our words as truth. There are many things i have seen on the forum which seems to be a bit odd and at times unacceptable, why I choose to speak my mind because I care for the viewers who may come to learn. If we give the public the wrong info, we could implicate a lot people who would be learning from us and can be dangerous for their Buddhist practice. Wisdom of Gelug teachings must be maintained at high standard to ensure the purity.

For example I have commented on the shortcoming of having Buddha pictures Tattooed on bodies as it will be disrespectful if we have sexual intercourse. For those who had empowerment before should not have tattoo, as they have become the Samaya sattva for their Buddhist deity and will violate the Vairocano vows on having damaging own body. If I do do not highlight, next moment you could see a lot of people on this forum flashing their Dorje Shugden tattoos proudly, which will create a lot of damage to the Buddhist practise and Gelug teachings we are upholding.

When we rejoice on others who have good whole some deeds, we gain good merits and will reap the same good karma. but if we rejoice on deeds which consist of bad element, sufferings eventually follows. For example, John open up a fishing shop and enjoyed prosperous business, it may seem harmless to rejoice for him, but those who do not know that He had create the cause of killing by selling fishing rods and rejoicing that will which consist of bad elements will create suffering in future.

This is a degenerate age whereby there are practices that have gone deviate teachings and off course, such as there are association who do not recognized Shakyamuni Buddha as the head of the Buddhism for the current age.  As a Buddhist association, to my view, it is not encouraged to hold homosexual marriage, due to the element of sexual misconduct. Instead homosexual marriage should be left on their own and let's be tolerant and silent about it.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: lightning on June 25, 2012, 04:53:08 AM
Here is Kalu Rinpoche's stand on this topic ([url]http://kalurinpochela.org/gays-lesbians-are-welcome-in-my-world/[/url] ([url]http://kalurinpochela.org/gays-lesbians-are-welcome-in-my-world/[/url])):

Quote
In a lot of religions in this world, gays and lesbians are not accepted… from my point of view, and I would say from a Buddhist point of view, gay and lesbian are welcome in my world. I’m happy to see how they love and take responsibility for each other and for their family.

Buddha never said to be gay is not good; to be lesbian is not good.

Buddha only cares about your happiness. God only cares for your happiness. If they do not care about your happiness, what are they talking about?  What is their point?

So don’t be sad, don’t be unhappy if you are gay or lesbian.

In a relationship, it is appreciation of the other that is most important. This is the quality that will bring you happiness… whether you are heterosexual, gay or lesbian.

In some relationships love comes first, deep appreciation comes later; in others appreciation comes first and love comes later. It doesn’t matter as long as you are happy in yourself and happy in your relationship.


Straight, gay, bi, lesbian... ultimately a homosexual and a heterosexual marriage is the same thing.. a relationship between two people who want to be happy and want to give happiness to each other.  That being said, i wonder why homosexuality wasn't as acceptable in the olden days, and why other religions reject it? as more and more people "come out of the closet", i wonder if the other "intolerant" religions will change their stance.

Kalu Rinpoche is a Karma Kagyu Spiritual Guide, we are basing on Gelug teachings to debate and the understanding of karma can be very detailed and refined that certain stand points may be omitted if one is not observant enough.
Maybe you could try to ask Kalu Rinpoche if the sexual activities between homosexual is a sexual misconduct? Observe how he reply you?
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: Positive Change on June 25, 2012, 01:59:27 PM
Here is Kalu Rinpoche's stand on this topic ([url]http://kalurinpochela.org/gays-lesbians-are-welcome-in-my-world/[/url] ([url]http://kalurinpochela.org/gays-lesbians-are-welcome-in-my-world/[/url])):

Quote
In a lot of religions in this world, gays and lesbians are not accepted… from my point of view, and I would say from a Buddhist point of view, gay and lesbian are welcome in my world. I’m happy to see how they love and take responsibility for each other and for their family.

Buddha never said to be gay is not good; to be lesbian is not good.

Buddha only cares about your happiness. God only cares for your happiness. If they do not care about your happiness, what are they talking about?  What is their point?

So don’t be sad, don’t be unhappy if you are gay or lesbian.

In a relationship, it is appreciation of the other that is most important. This is the quality that will bring you happiness… whether you are heterosexual, gay or lesbian.

In some relationships love comes first, deep appreciation comes later; in others appreciation comes first and love comes later. It doesn’t matter as long as you are happy in yourself and happy in your relationship.


Straight, gay, bi, lesbian... ultimately a homosexual and a heterosexual marriage is the same thing.. a relationship between two people who want to be happy and want to give happiness to each other.  That being said, i wonder why homosexuality wasn't as acceptable in the olden days, and why other religions reject it? as more and more people "come out of the closet", i wonder if the other "intolerant" religions will change their stance.

Kalu Rinpoche is a Karma Kagyu Spiritual Guide, we are basing on Gelug teachings to debate and the understanding of karma can be very detailed and refined that certain stand points may be omitted if one is not observant enough.
Maybe you could try to ask Kalu Rinpoche if the sexual activities between homosexual is a sexual misconduct? Observe how he reply you?


Well the thing is Lightning, you are losing the point. It is not the people (homosexuals) but the act in itself. You cannot equate homosexuals to be deviant beings that exude sexual misconduct. That is wrong view! Sometimes heterosexuals's sexual activities can also result in sexual misconduct. You cannot say homosexual = sexual misconduct. That is prejudice pure and simple.

I am merely pointing out that sexual misconduct is sexual misconduct regardless of whether someone is homosexual or heterosexual or whatever sexual! We rejoice that homosexual men are given the same rights as heterosexual men and women... that is all. We do not necessarily rejoice that people are having sex! After all sex is an attachment and if we can all stop having sex, a lot of our human problems can be solved! ;)

Once again, if you are truly concerned at how people reading the threads on this forum would perceive things, look closely at how you word things... be accurate and do not make sweeping statements and absolutes when you yourself I am sure are not perfect.

A great Christian proverb "let the one that has not sin cast the first stone" in reference to the crowd wanting to stone Mary Magdelene when they found out she was an adulterer!
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: biggyboy on July 02, 2012, 06:41:28 PM
Why not! Kudos to Australian Buddhists who supports that.

There is so much talk about human rights and yet there are laws to ban same sex marriage and discrimination against homosexuals and lesbians. So much about human rights. Aren’t homosexuals and lesbians human? Don’t they have rights? If one truly believes in human rights, we should respect that they (homosexuals and lesbians) too have rights to choose their own partners and they have rights to choose their own way of life.  So let us show love and understanding and compassion to them and stop the discrimination and stop harassing them. People are quick to judge and often impose their own values on to others thinking that theirs is the correct way.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: hope rainbow on September 09, 2012, 02:30:13 PM
Once my boss shared with me his theory that in the future marriage will become redundant.  Everyone probably knows about how divorce statistics are growing, how fertility rate is dropping, how men and women are getting married later... these trends shows that the idea of marriage and the importance place on it is changing, and these ideas are perhaps more prevalent in developed countries.  It is a matter of time that all countries become developed and follow this trend.  If this is indeed going to be the case in the future... what is the big hooha about who can marry who now?

The world is becoming more "gay friendly", and this way of thinking is consistent with Buddhist thinking.  People finally are appreciating the fact that gay or not, we all want happiness, we don't want suffering, we find happiness in different packages.

Marriage may become redundant.
Marriage may be a bourgeois reliquary.
Marriage may be the end of the freedom years of homosexuality, the end of its subversive and under-ground culture too.
But at least marriage will give the gay and lesbian community the opportunity to choose for themselves if they prefer to marry or not instead of having to accept a decision forced upon them by society.
Title: Re: Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage
Post by: buddhalovely on October 01, 2012, 02:44:02 PM
The heart of Buddhist thought is its insight philosophy, which uses critical inquiry to challenge dogma and to reveal how seemingly fixed ideas are more arbitrary than we might think. Applying this philosophy, we see that social customs are not fixed laws but evolving conventions that serve a purpose in a particular culture and time. Marriage is one of these conventions. It is not a rigid law but a social custom that evolves.

The history of marriage supports this view. Throughout most of Western history, marriage was a negotiated arrangement between families, not a romantic choice. Women were not accorded the same marriage rights as men, interracial marriage was forbidden, interfaith marriage was shunned, and divorce was often illegal or granted only with permission.

Today, Western marriage is almost unrecognizable compared to these earlier forms. Marriage is now a consensual choice. Women have equal rights, laws banning interracial marriage have been struck down, interfaith marriage is common, and individuals can divorce freely.