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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: Namdrol on March 18, 2012, 10:54:01 PM
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how do you like this inter-religious thangka? ;D
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Are you serious? It cannot be real.... but nice thought nevertheless. Thangkas are a cultural art form so I do not see why using Jesus in it could possibly be wrong. It is not that Jesus is depicted in a lotus position or seated on a snow lion. LOL!
This brings me back to a discussion I had once with some friends back in high school whereupon we discussed in length how Jesus got his miraculous powers as according to the parables.
One case stands out: The multiplying of bread and fish at one of his sermons. That is a very Yogic attainment. Even to fast for long periods of time as well. All these we know for a fact that practising Yogi/Yogis till today still have such attainments or superhuman powers so to speak.
There was a hypothesis that Jesus actually ventured to India in his early adulthood and learnt the mystical meditational arts of the Yogis. Some tantra perhaps? Before I get gunned downed by Christians and Catholics, my explanation is simple. Jesus got "lost" while travelling in a caravan when he was a kid and only "surfaced" again in the Bible as an adult with miraculous powers. There is this gap in history that does not explain where he went so I am merely putting 2 and 2 together. :P
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Well... you never know. I heard that in Vietnam, there's a huge statue of Jesus and Buddha embracing each other. It was said that would be the sight we'll see if ever the Buddha and Jesus met... the will not exchange words but just hold hands and walk... they are afterall from the same mindstream.
I once read a quote, it said... if the Buddha and Jesus met, they will not try to convert each other. And I thought it is very logical. At that point, I stopped exploring other religions and went all the way with being Buddhist. Who am I to investigate and say if one religion is wrong/better than the other?... there is no right or wrong religion, it's just the wrong people that preach the teachings after the passing of these great masters.
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The thangka is beautiful. Do you know where I can get it? It will be a nice gift for my partner’s family.
I have once come across this book call the “Lost Years of Jesus” when I went for a Nepal trip. I was told about this book many years back. I herd that this book is ban in quite a lot of country and I was surprised that I saw it in a few book store in Nepal and bought it. Borrow it to a friend and it never came back.
What Q said is right is “there is no right or wrong religion, it's just the wrong people that preach the teachings after the passing of these great masters.”
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This is indeed quite interesting :) but I won't want to go near the "Jusus went to India and learn..." part :)
To me, anything that promotes harmony between faith/religion, I am all for it. In fact, even within the same faith, like the Dorje Shugden matters, I am all for the harmonious between the practitioners.
I have once seen a book in Nepal where it talks about the similarities of Christian and Buddhism. It is quite a thick book (more than 1000 pages), and it is full colour. I remembered very well that in the book, the author pointed out a lot of similarities between Mother Mary and Kuan Yin (Chenrezig).
We should focus more on the similarities (than the differences), only then we can achieve harmonious.
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This brings up a curious question. Do you know how many Christians are there in Tibet and among the Tibetans in exile? According to my research 95% Tibetans are Buddhist, 4% is listed under polytheism and 1% is listed under others. So, I conclude that very very few Tibetans are Christians. Some sites, I found, quoted only a few hundreds.
To have Jesus Christ thangka, to me is depicting Jesus Christ using a traditional Tibetan way. Thangka means "flat painting" that can be rolled up. It is a heritage of the tibetan nomadic way of live. So, for Tibetan christians,it will be appropriate to depict Jesus on a thangka. The bible has been translated to many language, so why not the image of Jesus Christ also be depicted in the local culture?
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The thangkha is so beautiful!! Where can I get it anyways?? Would love to send it to my family members who are all Christians and let them know in between religions there are an existence of harmony and peace. Love the thangka as this has never come into my imagination of any form. Wouldn't it be great if more of this thangka can be reproduced and be spreaded around the Europe to promote peace in this sense. Love it love!
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Well I should say I like inter religious thangka. It is nice and it will promote harmony between faith and religion. I think if Buddha and Jesus were to meet each other, they will not fight or claim their religion is better than the other. I would think that they will work in harmony to serve sentient beings/mankind. If there are Tibetans who are Christians, this type of thangka with Jesus Christ is very appropriate as it is very traditional.
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I personally think this is un-necessary.
Not that it is wrong, but I do not see the benefit, or I would have to be explained...
Christianity has this wonderful, most potent and powerful representation of the Christ on a cross, nailed through His flesh and bones, crucified, bleeding with a crown made of needles and blood dripping on His face.
This image is so powerful, it is a reminder of how committed Christ has been to others, to the point of giving up his body as a last teaching to His disciples (what an extra-ordinary level of generosity), some of them betraying Him, some of them denying Him.
The cross is showing us that He never gave up, even when facing arrest, torture and death, He never gave up on His disciples and even on His murderers, He forgave them, He saw that they were acting out of ignorance and pleaded to God to forgive them.
This act is so potent, it is being reminded to all Catholics when they go to church (not all churches have kept the crucifix to this day). Let's imagine the Buddha represented like that, wouldn't this bring a flow of tears to your eyes? Wouldn't this make your compassion and forgiveness grow? If Jesus was able to forgive those who were hitting nails through his feet and wrists, why couldn't you forgive to those who simply cut the queue in front of you?
Personally, I would rather not interfere with how Jesus is represented, I am not a Christian. Let's keep things simple. But I can praise Jesus's qualities without interfering.
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This thangka is beautiful! And very suitable for Tibetans who are Christians. It is a combination of culture and religion.
I visited the Institute of World Religions in Berkeley, USA. It is a church building converted into a monastery. Inside the building, it looks like a modern monastery with an altar. But the traditional christian stained glass is replaced with a stained glass image of Buddha. It is so beautiful! Here are the pictures.
To me, it doesn't matter how our depiction of buddha or jesus are. Whether it should be in a certain way. As long as our faith and belive is strong, it can come in any way you want.
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Thank you Namdrol and Galen.
It is very nice to see other religious figures depicted in brocaded thangka. No one ever said that only Buddhas and Buddhist deities can be framed in brocade as a thangka.
If only all religions would borrow from each other's art form of depicting their own religious figures, it would be a good way of exchange of art to be appreciated on the lay person's level.
When my eyesight was better, I used to do a lot of cross-stitch. I came across many beautiful designs of Buddha, Goddess of Mercy and Jesus which were very well stitched. This can also be another way of offering.
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This thangka is beautiful! And very suitable for Tibetans who are Christians. It is a combination of culture and religion.
I visited the Institute of World Religions in Berkeley, USA. It is a church building converted into a monastery. Inside the building, it looks like a modern monastery with an altar. But the traditional christian stained glass is replaced with a stained glass image of Buddha. It is so beautiful! Here are the pictures.
To me, it doesn't matter how our depiction of buddha or jesus are. Whether it should be in a certain way. As long as our faith and belive is strong, it can come in any way you want.
The culture of the first people to practice a religion almost always determines the way that religion is expressed in its rituals, costumes, symbols and art. Over time a tradition develops that intricately links the practice of that religion to the culture of its first practitioners and an unspoken rule begins to form dictating new practitioners of that religion to abide by the same cultural details in their spiritual expression.
I believe that a religious practice should be able to transcend all kinds of cultures. The truth within any religious doctrine should not be affected regardless of the race and the culture of the different people observing that doctrine.
Therefore I don't think that placing an image of Jesus Christ on a Tibetan-looking thangka is either correct or incorrect. I personally do not see the need for it unless, as Galen pointed out, it is to appeal to a Christian who appreciates Tibetan embroidery and art.
I do like the image of the Buddha on stained glass windows, something usually reserved for Christian art. The principles of the Buddha’s teachings…the Four Noble Truths remain noble and true regardless of where it is spoken and practiced.
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Christianity has this wonderful, most potent and powerful representation of the Christ on a cross, nailed through His flesh and bones, crucified, bleeding with a crown made of needles and blood dripping on His face.
This image is so powerful, it is a reminder of how committed Christ has been to others, to the point of giving up his body as a last teaching to His disciples (what an extra-ordinary level of generosity), some of them betraying Him, some of them denying Him.
The cross is showing us that He never gave up, even when facing arrest, torture and death, He never gave up on His disciples and even on His murderers, He forgave them, He saw that they were acting out of ignorance and pleaded to God to forgive them.
Applaud appaud!!
Great theory of which I totally agree!
Together with the whisper that 'Juses went missing in India nd came back full of power' theory, I am 101% convienced that Jesus is one great mahasida! Much like the mahasida who could hold the sun in the sky (or rather stop the earth from spinning), Jesus had the qualities of mahasida!
I know I am treading on very thin ice here, and risk being murdered by Christians the next time I step out of my door, but hellllo, the evidence do add up and Christianity is yet another Buddhist lieanage.. And I dare say they had got the short end of the stick because their teachings did not included the fundamental reincarnation theory. Historians in the world should start looking for the missing chapters in bible ??
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If there's a statue of Buddha, there should be a statue of Christ. If Buddha can be depicted in a thangka, then so can Jesus Christ. Who are us to limit what can or cannot be done? It's cute and sweet that someone did Jesus Christ in a form of a thangka - their form of expressing their respect in a traditional, beautiful, arty kind of way.
I love thangkas - they are mobile, light, versatile, and pretty. They can be used to as a piece for worship, integrating with one's altar, they can be used for one to make offerings to, generating a field of merit, they can be used as a decorative piece around one's beautiful home, or to spruce up one's interior design within their homes to add a more spiritual touch to it.
What Kris said is true, in that "We should focus more on the similarities (than the differences), only then we can achieve harmonious (harmony)."
Afterall, we are all looking for inner peace. If we keep focusing on differences, and judging, we can never find that inner peace. Promoting inter-faith harmony is also spiritual practice. Who are we to judge whether one religion is better than another. As long as we are all-accepting, there will be less wars, bitterness, and anger. :)
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Religious art throughout history has evolved thru time and due to cultural influences. It's nice to see the fusion of religious artistic expressions. Afterall, big eyed Indian looking Buddha has small eyes in asian countries.
What is important is to keep the actual iconography of the religious art itself because it represents the teaching. Other than that, I love seeing Buddha in stained glasses, jesus in thangkas. How cool! Marching on into the 21st century… ?
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This thangka is beautiful! And very suitable for Tibetans who are Christians. It is a combination of culture and religion.
I visited the Institute of World Religions in Berkeley, USA. It is a church building converted into a monastery. Inside the building, it looks like a modern monastery with an altar. But the traditional christian stained glass is replaced with a stained glass image of Buddha. It is so beautiful! Here are the pictures.
To me, it doesn't matter how our depiction of buddha or jesus are. Whether it should be in a certain way. As long as our faith and belive is strong, it can come in any way you want.
As to the depiction of enlightened being or holy man, I think this will always goes hand in hand with the culture of the country when the deity is being worshipped. After all, it is just a depiction, the esscense is retained.
We tend to get too uptight with how things should be, but living in the fast digital lane, traditional ways of how deities should be depicted wil inevitably be adjusted to suit the time and new culture of the mind sets of the people.
For instance, I like modern altar and am not a great fan of the traditional Tibetan altar, but that does not make me less as a practitioner nor what the buddhas on my simple altar represent. Likewise, with Jesus Christ depicted in a beautiful brocaded traditional thangka, does not make Jesus less a saint.
Infact, with all these inter-religious/cultural depiction of buddhas/saints, perhaps unnecessary boundaries between religions can be erased with the skillful means of these artists.
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It's remarkable how Jesus and Buddha's teachings reveals about love,wisdom and materialism-were guiding us along the same path. Jesus and Buddha also delves into the mystery surrounding their strikingly similiar
teachings and presents over one hundred examples from each.
When we listen deeply to their words,we find that in any ways,they speak with one heart.If we could enact
even one verse from these teachings,it would have the power to illuminate our hearts,free us from confusion and transform our lives!
The image of Jesus Christ on a brocade thangka is so lovely!A brocade thangka beautifies any art depicted on it.Buddha on stained glass and Jesus on brocade thangka.....so wonderful!!
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I like the thangka very much. It's a creative way of depicting Jesus Christ. People from all cultures and backgrounds would depict Jesus differently. It doesn't make the practitioner any less spiritual or more spiritual. It's only a personal expression.
I have also seen Jesus Christ in Chinese silk embroidery. It was very beautiful as well.
I think what's important is practising the essence of the teachings. All these artist interpretations are merely visuals and reminders of the selflessness we can aspire to attain.
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Very nice.
Love the mixture of the art side and the culture. It doesn’t matter where the origin from but whatever things to make nice to our statues is one type of offering.
The culture may look different but if we set our motivation right it should the same across all the religious.
Respect is very much important towards other religious. We are not competing instead we encourage different religious practitioners to stay loyal with their center. Eventually what we want is the benefit for the people not ourselves.
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Very creative and nice.
I don't see anything wrong about having a Jesus Thangkha at all. Having a Jesus Thangkha in Tibet is appropriate to suit the culture there whoever is practicng Christianity in Tibet.
After all Jesus is a compassionate being who sacrifice for the sake of human kind. I supposed as long as it matches the culture of the practitioners why not?
Even Buddha statues are different in shapes and looks in different cultures. we should focus on the qualities of these compassionate beings rather to differentiate them telling others that Jesus Christ cannot be in the Thangkha but should be instead on the cross. Just so happen that Jesus was not in India does not mean cannot be practiced in an Indian culture.
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Why so much fuss over the Jesus thangka? And why is there need to judge if anything is wrong with having such a thangka? I regularly travel to Nepal, and there are many thangkas of various hindu deities, worldly gods, dakini-type figures and so on. Its not just Buddhas or Bodhisattvas you know. So having Jesus on a thangka is the same as seeing Vishnu or Shiva on a Thangka too. Its just a cultural thing, nothing more significant than that.
What I find more interesting is these images attached. It depicts the famous Jesus thangka, and the 2nd image is the most interesting. It seems to depict Jesus giving teachings to monks, with a gompa in the background. Take a look! Especially, look at how the monk serves Jesus with respect. And see the scars on the hands of Jesus. What do you think? Heh heh
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Thor, since you have brought this up, I remember clearly from my Hindu friends about the lost years of Jesus.
Several authors have claimed to have found proof of the existence of manuscripts in India and Tibet that support the belief that Christ was in India during this time in his life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_years_of_Jesus
Now what I found from this site is quite interesting.
http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/buddhist-and-hindu-texts-confirm-jesus-travels-to-the-indian-region/ (http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/buddhist-and-hindu-texts-confirm-jesus-travels-to-the-indian-region/)
Buddhist texts contain a prophecy of future Buddha, a bodhisattva, named ‘Bagwa Metteyya’ a Pali phrase which literally means “fair-complexioned”, or “white traveller”. The etymological resemblance of the word “Metteyya” to “Messiah” is established and one meaning of the word “Messiah” is traveler.
Don't you think the word Metteyya and Maitreya sounds pretty similar too?
Jesus approaching Ladakh as a youth
Oil painting by J. Michael Spooner
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This is awesome. All religions should co-exist. We are all after the same thing after all, which is relieving suffering of ourselves. Why do people create religious wars, religious debates. If we all accepted each other, that would be the true practice of religion. If we worship jesus, as buddhists there shouldn't be any issues with that. We are admiring his qualities, just like how we admire the qualities of high monks etc.
The thangka is a great representation of religious mixes, and we should move towards this, i'm sure if we all accept each others religions it would solve a lot of problems globally.
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I wanted to revive this post showing a beautiful thangka of Jesus Christ, which I regard as a high bodhisattva if not more!
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how do you like this inter-religious thangka? ;D
I must say that i am very surprised to see this Thangkha of Jesus! Is this called inter religious diplomatic gesture?? I don't think Christians (majority that is) will like this once they found out about it. But i certainly like this tangkha as i have never seen any images of GOD from another religion to appear in a Tibetan thangka. Jesus for me is a Bodhisattva and deserves the honour to be featured in a thangka. Nevermind the criticism that the Christians are going to throw onto us once they found out about this but nevertheless, i love this tangkha!
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This is a beautiful thangka. Even though, it may be fake. I think it is best for all religions to live in harmony. As long as a religion teaches love and compassion, then it is a good religion. The thangka shows a unity amongst religion that is needed!