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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: kris on January 08, 2012, 06:46:31 PM

Title: Bone mala
Post by: kris on January 08, 2012, 06:46:31 PM
I was told that the 3 types of mala which the traditional: Bone mala, Boddhi seed Mala and Lotus seed Mala. and out of the 3 types of mala, bone mala is the "best" especially human bone mala because it reminds us of death, and also since it is made of human bone, we can collect whatever merits the person had from the bones.

My question is this: If the logic above is valid, what happened if the person has done a lot of negative deeds, and we use his/her bones as mala? Will we also collect negative merits?
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: nagaseeker on January 09, 2012, 03:41:18 AM
I was told that the 3 types of mala which the traditional: Bone mala, Boddhi seed Mala and Lotus seed Mala. and out of the 3 types of mala, bone mala is the "best" especially human bone mala because it reminds us of death, and also since it is made of human bone, we can collect whatever merits the person had from the bones.

My question is this: If the logic above is valid, what happened if the person has done a lot of negative deeds, and we use his/her bones as mala? Will we also collect negative merits?

Kris , i believe we don't collect negative karma from it because whats the purpose of having a mala ? to count the recitation of mantra . we are talking about mantra , words that coming out from buddha's mouth . it is blessing from buddha not the object we use to count,instead we are helping the bone's owner to gain merits !

hm.... i'm looking forward from others answer ~ ;D
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: Galen on January 09, 2012, 06:34:06 AM
I don't think we will collect negative karma if the bone mala we use is from a negative person. If fact it will be good for the person because we use the mala for prayers and the person will collect merits for having their bone being made into malas.

Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: lightning on January 09, 2012, 09:16:38 AM
Skullcap mala is best of bone mala and the bone mala from a highly attained practioner would be the best and is rare to find such treasures as most of the high lama would have it.

Some of these bone malas gives off negative vibration, which is could due to be unpleasant death or holding grudges during death. Whether human or animal are the same. Most of the times, these came from places like India, where bodies are casted aside without care.(Inferior goods in a sense)

The best solution is to have your guru to verify the bone mala could be used and have it cleansed. if your guru refused to help you to clease the bone mala, then something is very wrong with the mala. Preharps you may want to dispose by offering in fire puja.
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: lightning on January 09, 2012, 09:19:23 AM
Also another point, it wopuld be best to the bone mala from someone of your own lineage, as it is inauspicious to gather things from other than your lineage
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: lightning on January 09, 2012, 09:24:27 AM
Bone products which gives off negative vibration will affect your practice, unless you have the ablity to cleanse it with your own power. Just like a peacock absorbing poison, if not you will face hindrance  in your practise. I guessed it could be possible to get possessed by the spirit in worst case.
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: yontenjamyang on January 09, 2012, 09:36:22 AM
I heard about this also. Except, nowadays, how to get bone mala? Unless it is pass down to your from your lineage. In that case, only very special practitioners will get one. For new ones, almost impossible to get.

From the replies on this topic, for me even to get one, I am worried, unless our guru says ok.

To get just the bones from a ordinary joe and make a mala, we need to be really skillful. Pros and cons. This is another reminder albeit, not the most important reason, why we need to find a Guru.
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: daka on January 09, 2012, 05:49:16 PM
Bone products which gives off negative vibration will affect your practice, unless you have the ablity to cleanse it with your own power. Just like a peacock absorbing poison, if not you will face hindrance  in your practise. I guessed it could be possible to get possessed by the spirit in worst case.

I have a question here, let say the bone products that we use will give off negative vibration, do we really need to have the ability to cleanse it with our own power? The purpose of us using a mala is just to recite holy mantra of each enlightened beings, if you said the person who use this mala could be possible to get possesed by spirit, does it mean that the holy mantras don't have the power to avoid the negative influences? If a holy mantra doesn't have the power to even conquer the negative energy from a dead person, then what is the purpose of reciting a mantra? Please explain more as I'm getting confused now. :-\
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: Poonlarp on January 09, 2012, 06:17:14 PM
I also have the same question as Daka.

I don't have deep study about that, but I think holy mantra does have power to subdue all the negative energy from the bone, Lighting might be speaking about a new practitioner, who yet to have full faith in the mantras, he / she might be affected by the negative energy of the mala.

We will also gain a lot of merits when we conquer our fear of the negative spirit and do more chanting for the dead person. When the motivation is right, the practice will be very strong.
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: Klein on January 09, 2012, 06:39:45 PM
I don't think we will collect negative karma if the bone mala we use is from a negative person. If fact it will be good for the person because we use the mala for prayers and the person will collect merits for having their bone being made into malas.

I agree with Galen. Because the person's bones are now used for something virtuous like a mala, the person will receive some of the merits generated from the usage of the mala. Just like a sky burial where the dead person's last form of giving is to feed the animals. The animal does not inherit the dead person's "negative merit". (I think kris is referring to negative karma because I don't think there's such a thing as "negative merit".)
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: Aurore on January 09, 2012, 07:35:30 PM
"we can collect whatever merits the person had from the bones."

This is like saying we can inherit other people's merits just by using a bone mala. I don't know how true is that. If this is possible, I would love to get hold of a very highly attained being's bone mala ... as what Lightning said a skullcap mala. These malas are highly blessed.

So using any blessed malas can help us increase our merits by opening our past imprints. So indirectly it helps us generate merits. I heard that it will help our prayers and practice gain quicker effects and results. I am trying to get hold of any mala which was blessed by a DS oracle in trance.  ;D

Does anyone here have one of those? What do you feel when you use a blessed mala? Better memory? More focus? Please share your experience.
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: Lawrence L on January 09, 2012, 07:57:14 PM
I was told that the 3 types of mala which the traditional: Bone mala, Boddhi seed Mala and Lotus seed Mala. and out of the 3 types of mala, bone mala is the "best" especially human bone mala because it reminds us of death, and also since it is made of human bone, we can collect whatever merits the person had from the bones.

My question is this: If the logic above is valid, what happened if the person has done a lot of negative deeds, and we use his/her bones as mala? Will we also collect negative merits?

Dear Kris, as I know, we don't collect karma/merit from the bone but we could dedicate the merits of reciting mantras/prayers to the bone's owner. By doing this, we are actually collecting merits as we doing something good.
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: lightning on January 10, 2012, 11:41:19 AM
Bone products which gives off negative vibration will affect your practice, unless you have the ablity to cleanse it with your own power. Just like a peacock absorbing poison, if not you will face hindrance  in your practise. I guessed it could be possible to get possessed by the spirit in worst case.

I have a question here, let say the bone products that we use will give off negative vibration, do we really need to have the ability to cleanse it with our own power? The purpose of us using a mala is just to recite holy mantra of each enlightened beings, if you said the person who use this mala could be possible to get possesed by spirit, does it mean that the holy mantras don't have the power to avoid the negative influences? If a holy mantra doesn't have the power to even conquer the negative energy from a dead person, then what is the purpose of reciting a mantra? Please explain more as I'm getting confused now. :-\
Yes, it is possible to get possesed when you are much weaker than the spirit, even if you had HYT empowerment, it does not mean that you are invincible. At least, you are armed with holy mantra and it can act as deterrent to malicious forces. This is a lesson learnt and I have seen things happening on several ocassions to relate that we (the laymans) are not almightly.

You will know by yourself better if you are weak. There are people doing self initations daily, protector saddhana, guru puja etc. daily. In a way, you will develope stronger and should have some at least some gurantee, when cleansing the bone mala yourself. To be insure yourself, you should ask your Guru if you are up to the level where you can do cleansing by youself.

Another point is that it is not really neccesary to have the bone mala, unless you are going for some special HYT retreat like Heruka, which may require real kapala. If you really want to use a human bone mala, please get your Guru to verify and cleanse the mala before use. Lastly, please cover with cloth bag when you use the human bone mala to pray, as it is to wrathful to be seen by the sentinent beings from the other dimension.

A highly blessed kapala or bone mala of highly attained practioner has some electrifying tingling senastion, which you feel very comfortable holding it. Usually the kapala have some sanskrit wordings of seed syllables on it.
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: RedLantern on February 29, 2012, 01:41:56 AM
Bone malas prompt the devotee to recall the Buddha's teachings about impermanence of the world.Most of the holiest malas are cut from the skull bones of deceased lamas.The most highly prized beads are made from the bones of a lama.There's unlikely be any harm using bone mala for any practise,otherwise these malas won't be so easily sold openly.
Personally,I have never had any interest in a mala made of bones.The important thing is the prayers you say with it and your overall practise,the motivation or intent that matters.
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: pgdharma on March 01, 2012, 10:22:36 AM
One of the purposes of having a mala is to keep track on the recitation of the mantras. I think the holy mantras will be able to subdue whatever negative energy in the bone mala and it can also help the deceased to collect some merits.

However, if in doubt, it will be advisable to ask one’s Guru for advice. I personally feel that for new practitioners, it is not necessary to use bone mala as our faith and practice is not strong and our uncertainties and fears will lead us to more doubts. In fact, it is not necessary to use bone mala unless one is going for higher initiation.
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: Positive Change on March 02, 2012, 05:50:39 AM
I reckon there are separate issues at play here:

1. I do not believe that negative karma is transferable from one person to another hence using the residual body part of a person or animal that has accumulated negative karma is not an issue.

2. A mala can "contain" powerful energy based on the mantra's recited using the mala. It is the very holy names of Buddhas recited over and over again which gives the mala its "blessing". Not necessarily the person. However in the case of a highly attained being, the case might be of double blessings! ;)

3. I have been told that when using items made from bone as ritual items (like skull caps, bone trumpets etc), it actually gives blessings to the deceased person or animal and that was why they were used in the first place. At first thought one may think how gruesome or barbaric even but less we forget, there is always a higher purpose when it comes to spirituality!

Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: jeremyg on March 02, 2012, 11:04:41 AM
For me the mala doesn't matter. It is just a tool to count. The stories go that we usually count our mantra's in 100's, so the 108 beads is to account for up to 8 mistakes that we could potentially make. Yes I agree that using a bone mala, will help generate merits for the deceased, but for me we should not be so attached to the type of mala we use.

I for one, used to try and find the best mala. But then found that it doesn't really matter. Looking for a nice mala is just another attachment, and another attachment that leads us further from enlightenment. High monks in the monastery practice with whatever mala that is available To them it is just a counting tool.

So the idea, of having nice malas or different malas for me, is ok, but I find it rather samsaric.

Then again I can counter myself by saying that the mala can be seen as an offering to the Buddhas, so having the nicest one would be better to offer up.

These are just my thoughts. What do you think?
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: pgdharma on March 02, 2012, 03:58:12 PM
Yes, we may say that having a nice mala is due to our attachment to have nice things. But for me I would very much like to have a nice mala as it  can be used as an offering to the Three Jewels. When we offer a mandala using hand mudra, we can place the nice mala between our two hands and offered up. I would choose the nicest and the best within my means.
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: dondrup on March 02, 2012, 07:05:55 PM
Bone relics of the attained high lamas are very beautiful and they possess blessing energies.  These relics are objects of veneration and are usually enshrined in the stupas for others to pay homage to.  On the other hand, bones of ordinary human are ordinary, ugly and do not have any blessing energies.  In fact it could be harmful to our wellbeing if we use them as malas due to their negative energies. 
 
Those who practise healing or who has the clairvoyance will attest to the observation above.  However, these ordinary bones when blessed by rituals or attained lamas will become safe for use as malas.  For those who are not attained or qualified, it is thus advisable to avoid using ordinary human bone malas. 
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: DS Star on March 03, 2012, 04:16:53 AM
Bone mala, I used to have one made from yak. As for human bone mala, I saw one belong to someone and she was advised by guru to put on altar as offerings to 3 Jewels. Though very rare, it is actually available for sale online by mail order.

As far as I was told human bone mala is not to be used in normal practices, it is for higher tantric practice or for wrathful deities like Mahakala, Heruka or such. The reason for not using such mala in normal use is not due to the belief that bad things may happen to users or it will bring negative energy from the dead but more like using powerful tool for very simple tasks.

Human bone malas are used for us to reflect or contemplate on the truth of Impermanence. And we must use them with care and respect to the dead person; and also for us to cultivate compassion to help the dead person to collect merits.

As suggested by a few posts here, the best solution is to check with our own Guru before we use one.  So, we really have to check why we need to use it in the 1st place.
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: Q on March 03, 2012, 05:23:39 AM
I was told that the 3 types of mala which the traditional: Bone mala, Boddhi seed Mala and Lotus seed Mala. and out of the 3 types of mala, bone mala is the "best" especially human bone mala because it reminds us of death, and also since it is made of human bone, we can collect whatever merits the person had from the bones.

My question is this: If the logic above is valid, what happened if the person has done a lot of negative deeds, and we use his/her bones as mala? Will we also collect negative merits?

Hi Kris... I believe it is not that we collect whatever merits the person had by using their bone... but when we use the bone mala to chant mantras, then the deceased person whose bone we're using as a mala, he/she will gain the merits.

It is the same with damaru, where they use skulls to make the damaru for the benefit of the deceased to collect more merits. It is a very skillful method that yet again Buddhism offers to us. Even with death, we can still collect merits and benefit others (ie organ donation or sky burial)
Title: Re: Bone mala
Post by: ratanasutra on March 03, 2012, 06:09:16 PM
Mala or Rosary is for us to use for tracking/counting when recite mantra. Mala can be made from different type of material such as sandle wood, lotus seed, bone, bodhi seed, rose wood, agar wood and crystal etc

For new practitioner you can choose any type of mala to recite mantra but i heard from my guru that for some of higher tantra practice we must use bone mala only as bone remind us of death and impermanent.

i do not believe that mala will bring negative karma for the one who using, instead the mala that has been recite mantra by high lama for long time become an object that can be use for blessing and protection which these power are come from the power of mantra that the high lama recite everyday and his vows that he holding. similary the mala that we use to recite mantra every day do have some power from the mantra we recite too but not like the high lama as we do not hold our vows well, or if we do the number we hold also less than monk vow.

There is a mantra - OM RUCHIRA MANI PRAVA TAYA HUM- to recite 7 times and blow on to the mala to bless the mala every time before we start the prayer as in one day our mala can be mixed up with other items in our bag, drop on the floor, people walk cross over..etc