dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mana on December 30, 2011, 12:15:13 PM
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Very interesting, it seems that China now woos anything/anybody/anydeity that the Dalai Lama opposes...
Read below, it says that Thaye Thinley Dorje, a major rival to the position of XVIIth Gyalwa Karmapa, visited Hong Kong in February, this obviously could not have been organised in Hong Kong without Beijing’s approval.
"The Chinese Communist Party (CCP)’s United Front Work Department (UFWD) is obviously wooing Thaye Thinley Dorje", the report says.
Thaye Thinley Dorje is the other contender of the Karmapa's seat, against Ughyen Thinley Dorje who is supported by the Dalai Lama.
So we have an interesting point here now: China supports the Karmapa who is opposite of the Dalai Lama's choice....so, China will also support the deity who is opposite of the Dalai Lama's choice - DORJE SHUGDEN, right?
Good sign for the growth of Dorje Shugden in the upcoming most powerful/most populated country in the world??!!! What do you think?
Mana
source: http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=8,10643,0,0,1,0 (http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=8,10643,0,0,1,0)
by Jayadeva Ranade, DNA India, December 27, 2011
New Delhi, India -- Foreign Affairs establishments of major nations usually include, among their practitioners of ‘realpolitik’, a select band of Sinologists, Kremlinologists and the like. China’s foreign affairs establishment appears to have a group of professionals specialising in kasaya (garments worn by Buddhist monks and nuns) politics, or ‘kasayapolitik’! These experts are mainly in the Chinese Communist Party (CCP)’s United Front Work Department (UFWD) and China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/chi-bud.jpg)
Chinese government support for Buddhism is increasing
Since the CCP indicated approval of Buddhism slightly over five years ago, describing it as an “ancient Chinese religion”, the Chinese authorities have sought to use it to achieve strategic and domestic objectives.
They convened World Buddhist Forums to appeal to the Buddhists in China as well as portray to neighbouring, predominantly Buddhist, countries that China’s communist regime is tolerant of Buddhism. It is also projected China’s ‘soft power’.
Vice President Xi Jinping, then Party Secretary of Zhejiang province and now tipped to take over as China’s President in 2012, helped organise the first World Buddhist Forum in 2006. A large number of foreign monks, nuns and scholars were invited to this Forum, where Beijing projected the China-appointed Panchen Lama, Gyancain Norbu.
The second World Buddhist Forum, held at Wuxi in 2009, had expanded objectives and held its concluding ceremony in Taiwan. It also sought to project to Buddhists in China’s neighbourhood that China’s communist regime ‘approved’ the religion. While Gyancain Norbu was again present, this time Beijing emphasised that the Dalai Lama was not invited as he was a ‘disruptive element’. A third World Buddhist Forum is planned to be held in Hongkong in end April 2012.
Amid these initiatives, China accelerated preparations for the post-Dalai Lama phase. In 2007, it promulgated regulations that only Beijing can approve ‘living Buddhas’ and high lamas, including the Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama. It increased interaction with Tibetan Buddhist ‘traditions’, high-ranking lamas and others critical of the Dalai Lama. Beijing simultaneously began wooing the Karma Kagyu ‘tradition’ of Tibetan Buddhism, which exercises considerable influence in large areas of Tibet and the mountainous Indo-Himalayan border belt. Large numbers of Buddhists in Ladakh follow this ‘tradition’ as do the majority of those resident in Sikkim and Bhutan.
The Karma Kagyu is presently riven with dissension with four claimants to the position of XVIIth Gyalwa Karmapa. Ughyen Thinley Dorje, recognised as the XVIIth Gyalwa Karmapa by the Dalai Lama and Beijing, escaped from Tsurphu monastery near Lhasa into India in 2000. While suspicions about the manner of his escape linger, a Hong Kong source recently claimed that the day after his escape Beijing’s State Council sought confirmation from an interlocutor as to whether Ughyen Thinley Dorje had escaped to India.
In this backdrop, the visit to Hongkong in February by Thaye Thinley Dorje, a major rival to the position of XVIIth Gyalwa Karmapa, and the Hongkong Buddhist Association’s convention in October to felicitate the Karma Kagyu ‘tradition’, assume significance.
Neither could have been organised in Hong Kong without Beijing’s approval. The UFWD is obviously wooing Thaye Thinley Dorje.
Meanwhile, after a three-day conclave with senior Tibetan Buddhist leaders in Dharamsala mainly to discuss his reincarnation, the Dalai Lama criticised Chinese authorities for manipulating Tibetan religious beliefs and practices for political ends. He described the regulations promulgated in 2007, as “outrageous and disgraceful”. Asserting that “they are waiting for my death”, he cautioned Tibetans to “bear in mind that, apart from the reincarnation recognised through such legitimate methods, no recognition or acceptance should be given to a candidate chosen for political ends by anyone, including those in the People’s Republic of China”. He also exhibited his spiritual authority, pre-empted the Chinese, and accorded official recognition to ‘Jonang’ as the new, fifth ‘tradition’ of Tibetan Buddhism.
In the interregnum, tension has risen in Tibetan areas in China with twelve reported instances of self-immolation by ordained monks and nuns. Contact between Beijing and the Dalai Lama’s envoys, however, remain suspended.
As China prepares for the Party Congress in October 2012, prospects for any change in the policy on Tibet appears remote. The entire incumbent top leadership last year approved the long term policies adopted for Tibet. Zhang Qingli, the Tibet Party Secretary till August 2011, credited with saying “the Dalai Lama is a wolf in monk’s robes, a devil with a human face but the heart of a beast”, is also likely to be promoted to the powerful Politburo.
His experience of managing the restive Xinjiang-Uyghur and Tibet Autonomous Regions will ensure him a say in policies relating to China’s minorities.
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The author is a former Additional Secretary in the Cabinet Secretariat, Government of India
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This article certainly is interesting. Since Ughyen Thinley Dorje escaped from Tibet, has he become persona non grata with China even though he was recognised as the XVIIth Gyalwa Karmapa by both the Dalai Lama and Beijing? I had thought that this mutual recognition thing was interesting. So China is now wooing Thaye Thinley Dorje instead, to add to the Chinese endorsed Panchen Lama, Gyancain Norbu.
While i agree that China is wooing anything/anyone not endorsed by the Dalai Lama, I wonder why China hasn't more openly supported Dorje Shugden practice - i know that they have been indirectly supporting by allowing the monasteries freedom to practice, but they should build huge Dorje Shugden chapels in ALL their major cities. It would really be a political slap in the face of the Dalai Lama.
With the weight of the Chinese government behind Dorje Shugden, the practice would flourish far and wide throughout China. China needs sustainable economic growth - and Dorje Shugden can superficially provide that. The Chinese would initially be attracted to Dorje Shugden's promises of material wealth and stability, but in the long term, the merits gained by the practitioners would grant them the blessings of wisdom to be eventually open to the Dharma.
What i found interesting in this article also was that the "Chinese government support for Buddhism is increasing". I had read recently that the Chinese government was discouraging religion for government servants (No religion for Chinese Communist Party cadres, 19 Dec 2011, http://www.deccanherald.com/content/212827/no-religion-chinese-communist-party.html (http://www.deccanherald.com/content/212827/no-religion-chinese-communist-party.html)). However, these World Buddhist Forums certainly show that China is serious about promoting Buddhism as an 'ancient Chinese religion'! At least outwardly.
China is an interesting country to watch. Thanks again for sharing!
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It's a good sign to have more people practising Dorje Shugden!!
But if people practice Dorje Shugden with the motivation of putting DL down, and shorten DL life, is this a true Buddhist practitioner? And will the enlighten beings still help to fulfill the practitioner's will?
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Thank you for the interesting article!
I believe that the Chinese government is working to develop an acceptance towards the growth of Buddhadharma in China because it:
1) Will give them a positive image in the international arena. Freedom of religious practice was something China was scorned for in the past. So making positive progress in this area will enhance China’s journey into its role as a world leading nation. This is especially when the Dalai Lama is being accused of destroying religious freedom for Dorje Shugden practitioners.
2) Believes that Dharma is necessary and beneficial to its people during this period of rapid growth. China is a Buddhist nation and at the core of it, China believes in the benefit of Lord Buddha’s teachings.
As much as China sees it beneficial to have Buddhist practice return and flourish in China, it remains cautious as sudden promotion of anything can cause detrimental results such as fanatism. This is especially worrying as China encountered a very negative experience with the Fa Ren Gong in the past.
Despite the pulls in two directions, I have faith that China will find an effective manner to encourage the spread of Buddhism in China. With an autocratic system of government, once this direction is determined, it is highly likely that implementation will be rapid.
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Mana. An interesting thought. I think you are right on. Doing what the Dalai Lama opposes would certainly be the direction that China want to take. After all they are the 'masters' of Tibet.
Buddhism is an 'ancient Chinese religion' that has spread thru China to many other countries like Japan, Korea and South East Asia. So if the Dalai Lama opposes Dorje Shugden, China will not oppose. It will eventually support Dorje Shugdn openly.
It would be great for the people of China if more practice Dorje Shugden as the Chinese becomes richer and richer. The other way is also true ie, if more Chinese practice Dorje Shugden they will become richer and richer. Nothing wrong with that. With DS practice, a least the Chinese will not only gain wealth but also gain the merits to practice the Dharma properly.
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It's a good sign to have more people practising Dorje Shugden!!
But if people practice Dorje Shugden with the motivation of putting DL down, and shorten DL life, is this a true Buddhist practitioner? And will the enlighten beings still help to fulfill the practitioner's will?
While the political direction may be to put HH Dalai Lama down, i don't think that the average Chinese national would be petitioning Dorje Shugden for that purpose. I would imagine that the average Chinese national would be more inclined to petition Dorje Shugden for their personal well being, be it having a stable job, good income, happy relationships - romantic or family, and all other general wishes.
How would you define a "true Buddhist practitioner" anyway? All these things - wealth, health etc - without a dharma motivation - would not be the signs of a "true Buddhist practitioner" in the sense that these are all secular wishes. I believe that Dorje Shugden, as an enlightened being, would help practitioners to fulfil certain samsaric wishes in order that the practitioners can gain faith. Also, if these secular needs are met, the practitioner would be able to invest more time into dharma study and practice.
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Awesome post Mana! There's good hopes for DS to flourish once again in China and what more better to spread, propagate and proliferate DS's teachings and practice in the Land of the Dragon. China has always been liberal and open in providing religious 'freedom' to the people. Buddhism of all schools are flourishing in China regardless of it's focus with moderation. I've got a friend in China who has been sharing with me his views and what's going on there. The Buddhist scene there varies with the manjority going to temples for worship and basic classes.
like what shugdenprotect has mentioned earlier, it is true that the Chinese govt is very wary of religion being overtly practiced/promoted in light of their political views and past experiences. However, the govt is definitely promoting Buddhism from a different point which is historical preservation. The central govt has been pumping in money to restore Buddhist temples all over the country and have been busy promoting their works in hopes of a good return from tourism and historical study.
In time to come, I think the Chinese will be irked and worked up by HHDL and heavily promote whatever HHDL opposes; the Great Dorje Shugden. Let's all create causes for that here and now! I've just sent my friends in China copies of the comic book downloaded from here and they love it!
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Interesting article to read about the religion stand of China.
It is no doubt that China is against the Dalai Lama and whatever the Dalai Lama does or appoints will be opposed by the China government. It is good news that China is promoting Buddhism but they are promoting it as a culture instead of religion. They are still very cautious of anything too religious or too cultish, just like what happened with Fa Lun Gong. Because when somethings catches on in China, it catches on, and people join in droves. They do not want another revolution.
My friends in China told me that they cannot promote Buddhism openly and have public teachings. They have to do it on the pretext of culture. Even they could not invite lamas to give talks and teachings as it would be considered an illegal gathering and would need approval. Now they do it underground, where they have private gatherings in small groups to discuss teachings. If they are doing this, I'm sure there are lots of other groups doing the same all over China.
Dorje Shugden's practice will definitely flourish in China as the Chinese are very aggressive and influential. As we know, DS will grant them short term wishes like wealth and prosperity in order to attract them into long term practices i Buddhism. The Chinese will definitely be attracted to wealth!
I have also read that Emperor Kang Xi is Dorje Shugden himself. And he is an illustrious emperor in China's history. With this, Buddhism is lkie coming back to it's roots and for sure people will follow as it is practiced by the emperor and their ancestors.
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I feel that in recent times, the Chinese Government are more relax and open up towards the growth of Buddhism in China and the number of Buddhist practitioners are increasing even though most of the time they cannot practice openly.
It is a good sign that China now woos anything/anyone/any deity that HHDL opposes. If they are promoting Buddhism in an indirect way and allowing monasteries freedom to practice, eventually they will support Dorje Shugden practice.
Chinese people are very into wealth and prosperity, Dorje Shugden practice will benefit them to acquire what they want. This will eventually make Dorje Shugden’s practice flourish in China.
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Such good news to usher the new year! China is BIG. Anything that becomes popular in China will become popular in the world eventually!
Hence it is very good to know that Dorje Shugden will be accepted by the chinese. China will definitely be the gateway for Dorje Shugden to spread to the entire world! Any one in this forum from China or closely related? Do download all the available materials in dorjeshugden.com and spread it around!
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china needs to heal decades of moral decay caused by the cultural revolution and other materialistic pursuits and goals. no other religion can heal this decay effectively without swaying or influencing them to political beliefs other than Buddhism, and even within Buddhism they need something big and powerful that can help. And Dorje Shugden can.
I am waiting for the day where Trode Kangshar is restored and the chapel restored to its former glory. That will benefit an infinite amount of people
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May be that is what Dalai Lama has been planning: upset the China government with the Free Tibet thingy, and then spread Dorje Shugden practices :)
On the other hand, China government has a hate-love relationship with religion. They know that without religion, the people becomes very materialistic and a lot of crime will happen, but if they allow a religion to flourish, they are afraid it will get too big and too influential (look at what happened to Fa Lun Gong). They even go to the extend of inventing a new religion called "Confucius" (trying to turn the philosophy Confucius" into a religion) because they know the effectiveness of religion in creating a harmony society.
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Yes, agree with Ensapa. The cultural revolution really threw a big bomb to China's religious culture. I have been to China 20 years ago. At that time, it's not easy to even find an incense there. No one wanted to talk about religion, they seemed trying to avoid this topic as it is considered very superstitious. However, I could still see old generation burning joss papers in front of their house in small alleys. Everything about ghost and god have to go underground.
Situation has become better since past few years. Although I still heard religious people being detained by police, being accused of illegal assembly, but overall they are more open now. Perhaps after seeing present moral decline and social problems arises from materialism, China Government also start to realize the importance of religious practices.
I hope with China Government trying to oppose HHDL, they will promote Dorje Shugden more. It sure will benefit millions of their people who is now desperately need a moral compass to guide them through their inner struggles.
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the Chinese government has finally realized the error of its ways upon seeing the social ills and moral decay that has happened in China of late, that arises from the lack of a religion and a source of morality. And out of the many religions it has chosen Buddhism to help it recover from this. You dont here China throwing a convention for other religions, not even its own native one, Taoism but you see them throwing one for Buddhism. And that is a very powerful message.
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While i agree that China is wooing anything/anyone not endorsed by the Dalai Lama, I wonder why China hasn't more openly supported Dorje Shugden practice - i know that they have been indirectly supporting by allowing the monasteries freedom to practice, but they should build huge Dorje Shugden chapels in ALL their major cities. It would really be a political slap in the face of the Dalai Lama.
I wonder if China is biding their time, waiting for the right moment before openly declaring support for Dorje Shugden. Perhaps they are waiting to see which direction gains more momentum and support. Especially to see which countries in the Western hemisphere support the movement of Dorje Shugden.
For sure, China's support for Dorje Shugden has nothing to do with human rights, nor with equality. It would be a political move, to undermine the Dalai Lama’s and the Tibetan Administration’s policies. But while they bide their time to decide, as interest in Dorje Shugden grows amonst the people, perhaps as government officials get curious and try Shugden’s practice, and as the effectiveness of his practice is experienced by the populace, they may promote him for the right reasons eventually. I hope that is the case.
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I wonder if China is biding their time, waiting for the right moment before openly declaring support for Dorje Shugden. Perhaps they are waiting to see which direction gains more momentum and support. Especially to see which countries in the Western hemisphere support the movement of Dorje Shugden.
For sure, China's support for Dorje Shugden has nothing to do with human rights, nor with equality. It would be a political move, to undermine the Dalai Lama’s and the Tibetan Administration’s policies. But while they bide their time to decide, as interest in Dorje Shugden grows amonst the people, perhaps as government officials get curious and try Shugden’s practice, and as the effectiveness of his practice is experienced by the populace, they may promote him for the right reasons eventually. I hope that is the case.
It does sound like it, but China already has their own Panchen Lama to undermine HHDL. They dont need Shugden. If it is big in China, it should be due to other reasons. Also, Samding Rinpoche (dorje pakmo) is on their side as well. They have more than enough Tibetans and religious authorities on their "side" to undermine HHDL's authority and hold. So personally it does not look like a political move. China may be paranoid but they are not known to overkill in a certain thing.
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The Dalai Lama have sacrificed the future power and prestige of future Dalai Lamas by bringing about the ban of Dorje Shugden. He has given up political power, if the Dalai had any self related issues, why do what will undermine his future?
Dorje Shugden practise and influence is getting stronger and stronger why wont the Dalai Lama change tactics? He has at his disposal many scholars and academics who can probably find solutions to destroy the Dorje Shugden practise once and for all. Perhaps we can skilfully lead all chinese to enlightenment through Gyenze the Welath form of Dorje Shugen. Chinese people are most attracted to wealth.
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It's a good sign to have more people practising Dorje Shugden!!
But if people practice Dorje Shugden with the motivation of putting DL down, and shorten DL life, is this a true Buddhist practitioner? And will the enlighten beings still help to fulfill the practitioner's will?
Hi poonlarp,
that's a very good question! Actually, most of us may not be holding the motivation to put down the Dalai Lama but I daresay that a majority of Dharma practitioners begin their path first with motivations that are not entirely pure. We may not admit it to ourselves, but many people are in for some personal gain at first - solve a problem, to look good, to show off, to make friends, to get rich etc.
From the side of the Buddhas, they do not love us any less. The Buddha himself (in this case, Dorje Shugden) never moves from his state of compassion and wisdom. In this way, even if we are doing something with a negative motivation towards the Buddha, we still make a connection to him, no matter how bad it may be at first now. You see, even seeing the name of Dorje Shugden or seeing his image, leaves very powerful imprints in our mindstreams that can trigger some very positive karma from a previous time, or open up at a later time when are more ready for deeper practice. So there is actually, eventually, we benefit in whatever we do towards a Buddha. So, for these Chinese, even if they do have negative thoughts towards the Dalai Lama ... well, join the rest of us with all our unstable thoughts, negative attachments and selfish motivations! At least they are connecting to something super supreme while they're at it....
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We can deduce that China and the Chinese people for the last 20 years or so have good collective Karma. This can be observe from their relative prosperity. Of course, as individuals, it differs from person to person. It is similar to USA during the last 200 years. That is why we have this saying of the "American Dream". The country, the land has good karma brought on by the beings who are born there. The opportunity is good.
What's my point, when one have good karma, for example being born in the gods/demi gods realm, one basically exhaust the merits more than gaining merits. China is now like that.
So they need more Dharma because they are in a more dangerous situation. I am sure the Buddhas will want to create the conditions to bless the Chinese more, if I am right. I am confident that Buddhism will make a very strong come back in China if it is not already happening.
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I wonder if China is biding their time, waiting for the right moment before openly declaring support for Dorje Shugden. Perhaps they are waiting to see which direction gains more momentum and support. Especially to see which countries in the Western hemisphere support the movement of Dorje Shugden.
For sure, China's support for Dorje Shugden has nothing to do with human rights, nor with equality. It would be a political move, to undermine the Dalai Lama’s and the Tibetan Administration’s policies. But while they bide their time to decide, as interest in Dorje Shugden grows amonst the people, perhaps as government officials get curious and try Shugden’s practice, and as the effectiveness of his practice is experienced by the populace, they may promote him for the right reasons eventually. I hope that is the case.
It does sound like it, but China already has their own Panchen Lama to undermine HHDL. They dont need Shugden. If it is big in China, it should be due to other reasons. Also, Samding Rinpoche (dorje pakmo) is on their side as well. They have more than enough Tibetans and religious authorities on their "side" to undermine HHDL's authority and hold. So personally it does not look like a political move. China may be paranoid but they are not known to overkill in a certain thing.
What other reasons could there be besides political and economic reasons? Everything that China does is motivated by these two reasons. By showing their approval and supporting Lama's that are opposed by the Tibetan Gvt/CTA is definitely a political move. Super imposing a thangka of Dorje Shugden behind the China's chosen Panchen Lama is definitely a huge slap on the CTA... that sure looked like a very political move. In fact the spread of Dorje Shugden in China has already begun... by them allowing Lama's and monasteries to practice Dorje Shugden. And slowly when the Chinese people pick the practice up, it will surely spread even further and bigger, it's just a matter of time...
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I'm totally agreed with dsiluvu.
I'm personally think that unable to understand what's the real deal behind China govn, HHDL or CTA, but obviously DS practices had been spread wide and fast in china or globally. All the DS practitioner had no doubt about powerful and swiftly result of DS, so no matter how DDHL banned cannot stop it.
Sometimes i even think all this unhappy issue arise is because of KARMA. Karmic connection between tibet,china people,emperor Kangxi and etc with DS. Result of human action greedy,hatred and ignorance.
China so stupid how can they defeat an enlightened DS, have clairvoyance noticed their future plan. Actually is DS and LAMAS kindness whom spread DS wish to help china people.
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While the political direction may be to put HH Dalai Lama down, i don't think that the average Chinese national would be petitioning Dorje Shugden for that purpose. I would imagine that the average Chinese national would be more inclined to petition Dorje Shugden for their personal well being, be it having a stable job, good income, happy relationships - romantic or family, and all other general wishes.
How would you define a "true Buddhist practitioner" anyway? All these things - wealth, health etc - without a dharma motivation - would not be the signs of a "true Buddhist practitioner" in the sense that these are all secular wishes. I believe that Dorje Shugden, as an enlightened being, would help practitioners to fulfil certain samsaric wishes in order that the practitioners can gain faith. Also, if these secular needs are met, the practitioner would be able to invest more time into dharma study and practice.
I like what you have said here WB. It is true that even if the Chinese government will support anti-DL sentiments, the average Chinese will be worshipping Dorje Shugden for very secular reasons as mentioned in your post. The Chinese people will need the reassurance from DS with the fulfillment of their personal wishes, and then only will faith develop to have them pray for more spiritual reasons. Material gains is what they understand and want as many Chinese are still struggling in many ways, and happiness and peace for them may be in material form for now.
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I like what you have said here WB. It is true that even if the Chinese government will support anti-DL sentiments, the average Chinese will be worshipping Dorje Shugden for very secular reasons as mentioned in your post. The Chinese people will need the reassurance from DS with the fulfillment of their personal wishes, and then only will faith develop to have them pray for more spiritual reasons. Material gains is what they understand and want as many Chinese are still struggling in many ways, and happiness and peace for them may be in material form for now.
There are many reasons for the Chinese to worship Dorje Shugden, mainly, because Dorje Shugden appeals to them as Dorje Shugden offers protection and wealth and these are the 2 most sought after 'powers' that most Chinese have. Dorje Shugden's previous incarnation also happens to be Emperor Kangxi which gives him a karmic link to China. So it makes a lot of sense on why the Chinese will be attracted to Dorje Shugden, ban or no ban, and from there he will grow very, very big in all the ways.
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Well, it is no doubt that many Chinese now and in the future would be interested and would even practice Dorje Shugden. Their reasons are simple and that is for material, emotional and to a smaller extent spiritual well-being just like many other people throughout the world. That one is pretty clear and established but I really don't think the Chinese government would be adopting or promoting Dorje Shugden at this point in time.
Well, I think that the only reason the Chinese government is encouraging and supporting of Dorje Shugden lamas is the fact that their belief is against the Dalai Lamas and that causes a split in Tibetan politics and their support of the Dalai Lama. They are also hoping that by supporting and encouraging Dorje Shugden lamas and institution that they will be more supportive of the Chinese government and hopefully downplay or quell Tibetan discontent. However, they will not financially help any Shugden practitioner because there's just too many and not really in the interest of the atheist Chinese state.
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Well, it is no doubt that many Chinese now and in the future would be interested and would even practice Dorje Shugden. Their reasons are simple and that is for material, emotional and to a smaller extent spiritual well-being just like many other people throughout the world. That one is pretty clear and established but I really don't think the Chinese government would be adopting or promoting Dorje Shugden at this point in time.
Well, I think that the only reason the Chinese government is encouraging and supporting of Dorje Shugden lamas is the fact that their belief is against the Dalai Lamas and that causes a split in Tibetan politics and their support of the Dalai Lama. They are also hoping that by supporting and encouraging Dorje Shugden lamas and institution that they will be more supportive of the Chinese government and hopefully downplay or quell Tibetan discontent. However, they will not financially help any Shugden practitioner because there's just too many and not really in the interest of the atheist Chinese state.
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Big Uncle,
I am afraid I have to agree with you that the Chinese government is taking advantage of the split that the Dalai Lama caused with the Shugden ban; they hope to acheive political gain by playing the Buddhists against each other; unfortunately, due to the blind fanatacism that many feel for the Dalai Lama, it works to ostracize the Shugden population. Ironically, while everyone is acting like the Shugdens are bad and the Dalai Lama will save them, when the Dalai Lama backed the Chinese Karmapa years ago, it was evident that he was making concessions to China, at the expense of Tibet, to return there, and allow the Chinese Karmapa to possibly lead the next generation of Tibetans. The Dalai Lama has used the Shugden ban to create a diversion from what he is doing to what prayers "bad people" are praying. Meanwhile, it seems like the CTA is on the page of going back there, and trying to rule some sort of fuedalistic sort of government under China's authority.... so once again.... it'd be a good idea to pray to Dorje Shugden to remove the politics from the religion. We just don't need politics and religion mixed, obviously....
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Well, it is no doubt that many Chinese now and in the future would be interested and would even practice Dorje Shugden. Their reasons are simple and that is for material, emotional and to a smaller extent spiritual well-being just like many other people throughout the world. That one is pretty clear and established but I really don't think the Chinese government would be adopting or promoting Dorje Shugden at this point in time.
Well, I think that the only reason the Chinese government is encouraging and supporting of Dorje Shugden lamas is the fact that their belief is against the Dalai Lamas and that causes a split in Tibetan politics and their support of the Dalai Lama. They are also hoping that by supporting and encouraging Dorje Shugden lamas and institution that they will be more supportive of the Chinese government and hopefully downplay or quell Tibetan discontent. However, they will not financially help any Shugden practitioner because there's just too many and not really in the interest of the atheist Chinese state.
But in a way, it does promote Buddhism and Dorje Shugden, and that the Chinese government of late has shown heavy preference for Buddhism as compared to islam and christianity. So to me that is a very good sign of things to come. The other reason of why China supports Dorje Shugden could also be because there are many Dorje Shugden practitioners still in Tibet - contrary to what the CTA wants to believe, and because of that, China would want what is best for the Tibetans and would love their input on country matters.
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Buddhism and China have a very long history, despite the blip during the Cultural Revolution, hence it is natural for China to be more inclined towards Buddhism. Especially as Tibet is now a part of China, Tibetan Buddhism will be more prevalent, and there are already Tibetan Buddhist elements throughout China, such as the Lama Tsongkhapa statue in Yong He Gung temple in Beijing.
Whatever the reasons China has for supporting Dorje Shugden practitioners, i think that they are continuing to do so because they see that Dorje Shugden lamas are willing to work with the Chinese authorities and all the Chinese authorities wish for is a stable environment for its peoples. Dorje Shugden lamas are also willing to work with the Chinese because they can see that if they work together with the authorities as opposed to against them, it will allow more freedom for Dorje Shugden practitioners, even to the extent of Dorje Shugden lamas being allowed to travel internationally. It is a win-win situation. For the Dorje Shugden lamas, the more exposure of the people to Dorje Shugden means the more exposure to Manjushri and that people will have Dharma seeds planted, whatever the reasons why the Chinese are propitiating Dorje Shugden. Even if the reasons are secular, the eventual result will be spiritual.
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Buddhism and China have a very long history, despite the blip during the Cultural Revolution, hence it is natural for China to be more inclined towards Buddhism. Especially as Tibet is now a part of China, Tibetan Buddhism will be more prevalent, and there are already Tibetan Buddhist elements throughout China, such as the Lama Tsongkhapa statue in Yong He Gung temple in Beijing.
Whatever the reasons China has for supporting Dorje Shugden practitioners, i think that they are continuing to do so because they see that Dorje Shugden lamas are willing to work with the Chinese authorities and all the Chinese authorities wish for is a stable environment for its peoples. Dorje Shugden lamas are also willing to work with the Chinese because they can see that if they work together with the authorities as opposed to against them, it will allow more freedom for Dorje Shugden practitioners, even to the extent of Dorje Shugden lamas being allowed to travel internationally. It is a win-win situation. For the Dorje Shugden lamas, the more exposure of the people to Dorje Shugden means the more exposure to Manjushri and that people will have Dharma seeds planted, whatever the reasons why the Chinese are propitiating Dorje Shugden. Even if the reasons are secular, the eventual result will be spiritual.
In any case, support for Dorje Shugden is increasing in China, and with that comes more support for Buddhism and a lot more tolerance for Tibet as well as the people in China in general. It would usher in a more tolerant and open China and now we can see the results is that the picture of the Dalai Lama is now allowed to be displayed in monasteries. This is for sure not a result of the self immolations, but a variety of factors, one of them being Dorje Shugden being supported and also the Dalai Lama saying that his middle way policy is not independence.
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The long history between China and Buddhism has shown that Buddhism is here to endure and it is not a religion that is detrimental to CHina's well being.China is after interested in the CHina and not much else around the world if they can help it. So the Chinese would rather choose an enemy that they know than an unknown friend that is how their minds work.
. So it is a win win for the Chinese to support Dorje Shugden practice and Buddhism, as to have another religion other than Buddhism as the dominant religion could really destabilise China and nobody wants that. China knows Buddhism many many centuries now so Buddhism is safe.
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The long history between China and Buddhism has shown that Buddhism is here to endure and it is not a religion that is detrimental to CHina's well being.China is after interested in the CHina and not much else around the world if they can help it. So the Chinese would rather choose an enemy that they know than an unknown friend that is how their minds work.
. So it is a win win for the Chinese to support Dorje Shugden practice and Buddhism, as to have another religion other than Buddhism as the dominant religion could really destabilise China and nobody wants that. China knows Buddhism many many centuries now so Buddhism is safe.
China can always look back at their history to learn and discover that it is due to Buddhism that they had peace and stability. In every dynasty where Buddhism was the prominent religion, there was peace but when another religion takes over, there was a lot of instability and rife. So it is only natural that the Chinese will want to endorse Buddhism more and more compared to other religions due to this fact. But in any case, China is now unofficially Buddhist although they still tell people that they do not have a religion, but many of their officials are now Buddhists, although this is not disclosed openly as so to not contradict their communist position.
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The long history of the Chinese practicing Buddhism and Dorje Shugden goes back a long way. In these modern days, it is only shown that China has got reconnected back with their faith that they had many many years ago. And I believe that it is a good thing.
It is true that China government is supporting the growth of Dorje Shugden because it is against the Dalai Lama and CTA. But I doubt that the Chinese citizens in China would also practice Dorje Shugden for the same reason. To me, I think that they continue to practice Dorje Shugden and they like it is because they really do see and feel the effects of their prayers. Showing to them that Dorje Shugden is really a Buddha that answers their prayers and help them irregardless of what happens. Hence, having that faith and devotion towards Dorje Shugden.
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The long history of the Chinese practicing Buddhism and Dorje Shugden goes back a long way. In these modern days, it is only shown that China has got reconnected back with their faith that they had many many years ago. And I believe that it is a good thing.
It is true that China government is supporting the growth of Dorje Shugden because it is against the Dalai Lama and CTA. But I doubt that the Chinese citizens in China would also practice Dorje Shugden for the same reason. To me, I think that they continue to practice Dorje Shugden and they like it is because they really do see and feel the effects of their prayers. Showing to them that Dorje Shugden is really a Buddha that answers their prayers and help them irregardless of what happens. Hence, having that faith and devotion towards Dorje Shugden.
It's not just that, but also because China has a long standing affinity with Dorje Shugden as Dorje Shugden's previous incarnation is also emperor Kangxi (the Tibetans call him Dakhong) And thus, they would feel more comfortable with Dorje Shugden compared to other deities as they have a close connection like this. So it is not surprising that China is endorsing Dorje Shugden, and in the process, opens itself up to embrace Buddhist activities and build more Buddhist structures.
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Very interesting, it seems that China now woos anything/anybody/anydeity that the Dalai Lama opposes...
Read below, it says that Thaye Thinley Dorje, a major rival to the position of XVIIth Gyalwa Karmapa, visited Hong Kong in February, this obviously could not have been organised in Hong Kong without Beijing’s approval.
"The Chinese Communist Party (CCP)’s United Front Work Department (UFWD) is obviously wooing Thaye Thinley Dorje", the report says.
Thaye Thinley Dorje is the other contender of the Karmapa's seat, against Ughyen Thinley Dorje who is supported by the Dalai Lama.
So we have an interesting point here now: China supports the Karmapa who is opposite of the Dalai Lama's choice....so, China will also support the deity who is opposite of the Dalai Lama's choice - DORJE SHUGDEN, right?
Good sign for the growth of Dorje Shugden in the upcoming most powerful/most populated country in the world??!!! What do you think?
Mana
source: [url]http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=8,10643,0,0,1,0[/url] ([url]http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=8,10643,0,0,1,0[/url])
by Jayadeva Ranade, DNA India, December 27, 2011
New Delhi, India -- Foreign Affairs establishments of major nations usually include, among their practitioners of ‘realpolitik’, a select band of Sinologists, Kremlinologists and the like. China’s foreign affairs establishment appears to have a group of professionals specialising in kasaya (garments worn by Buddhist monks and nuns) politics, or ‘kasayapolitik’! These experts are mainly in the Chinese Communist Party (CCP)’s United Front Work Department (UFWD) and China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/chi-bud.jpg[/url])
Chinese government support for Buddhism is increasing
Since the CCP indicated approval of Buddhism slightly over five years ago, describing it as an “ancient Chinese religion”, the Chinese authorities have sought to use it to achieve strategic and domestic objectives.
They convened World Buddhist Forums to appeal to the Buddhists in China as well as portray to neighbouring, predominantly Buddhist, countries that China’s communist regime is tolerant of Buddhism. It is also projected China’s ‘soft power’.
Vice President Xi Jinping, then Party Secretary of Zhejiang province and now tipped to take over as China’s President in 2012, helped organise the first World Buddhist Forum in 2006. A large number of foreign monks, nuns and scholars were invited to this Forum, where Beijing projected the China-appointed Panchen Lama, Gyancain Norbu.
The second World Buddhist Forum, held at Wuxi in 2009, had expanded objectives and held its concluding ceremony in Taiwan. It also sought to project to Buddhists in China’s neighbourhood that China’s communist regime ‘approved’ the religion. While Gyancain Norbu was again present, this time Beijing emphasised that the Dalai Lama was not invited as he was a ‘disruptive element’. A third World Buddhist Forum is planned to be held in Hongkong in end April 2012.
Amid these initiatives, China accelerated preparations for the post-Dalai Lama phase. In 2007, it promulgated regulations that only Beijing can approve ‘living Buddhas’ and high lamas, including the Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama. It increased interaction with Tibetan Buddhist ‘traditions’, high-ranking lamas and others critical of the Dalai Lama. Beijing simultaneously began wooing the Karma Kagyu ‘tradition’ of Tibetan Buddhism, which exercises considerable influence in large areas of Tibet and the mountainous Indo-Himalayan border belt. Large numbers of Buddhists in Ladakh follow this ‘tradition’ as do the majority of those resident in Sikkim and Bhutan.
The Karma Kagyu is presently riven with dissension with four claimants to the position of XVIIth Gyalwa Karmapa. Ughyen Thinley Dorje, recognised as the XVIIth Gyalwa Karmapa by the Dalai Lama and Beijing, escaped from Tsurphu monastery near Lhasa into India in 2000. While suspicions about the manner of his escape linger, a Hong Kong source recently claimed that the day after his escape Beijing’s State Council sought confirmation from an interlocutor as to whether Ughyen Thinley Dorje had escaped to India.
In this backdrop, the visit to Hongkong in February by Thaye Thinley Dorje, a major rival to the position of XVIIth Gyalwa Karmapa, and the Hongkong Buddhist Association’s convention in October to felicitate the Karma Kagyu ‘tradition’, assume significance.
Neither could have been organised in Hong Kong without Beijing’s approval. The UFWD is obviously wooing Thaye Thinley Dorje.
Meanwhile, after a three-day conclave with senior Tibetan Buddhist leaders in Dharamsala mainly to discuss his reincarnation, the Dalai Lama criticised Chinese authorities for manipulating Tibetan religious beliefs and practices for political ends. He described the regulations promulgated in 2007, as “outrageous and disgraceful”. Asserting that “they are waiting for my death”, he cautioned Tibetans to “bear in mind that, apart from the reincarnation recognised through such legitimate methods, no recognition or acceptance should be given to a candidate chosen for political ends by anyone, including those in the People’s Republic of China”. He also exhibited his spiritual authority, pre-empted the Chinese, and accorded official recognition to ‘Jonang’ as the new, fifth ‘tradition’ of Tibetan Buddhism.
In the interregnum, tension has risen in Tibetan areas in China with twelve reported instances of self-immolation by ordained monks and nuns. Contact between Beijing and the Dalai Lama’s envoys, however, remain suspended.
As China prepares for the Party Congress in October 2012, prospects for any change in the policy on Tibet appears remote. The entire incumbent top leadership last year approved the long term policies adopted for Tibet. Zhang Qingli, the Tibet Party Secretary till August 2011, credited with saying “the Dalai Lama is a wolf in monk’s robes, a devil with a human face but the heart of a beast”, is also likely to be promoted to the powerful Politburo.
His experience of managing the restive Xinjiang-Uyghur and Tibet Autonomous Regions will ensure him a say in policies relating to China’s minorities.
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The author is a former Additional Secretary in the Cabinet Secretariat, Government of India
Hi there, Karmapa (Thaye Dorje) has a Center in Hong Kong. Karmapa's first visit to Hong Kong was Feb. 2009: Please scroll to the date Feb 2009 after following the link:
http://www.karmapa.org/news/index_news.htm (http://www.karmapa.org/news/index_news.htm)