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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: KhedrubGyatso on December 20, 2011, 09:21:37 AM
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I believe most of us know where silk comes from - silkworms.During the process of making silk , the silk cocoons have to be boiled and the worms within it is inevitably killed.I don't think other schools of Buddhism make silk offerings.
I have not found a satisfactory answer to this practice especially when i am convinced about the qrguments against meat eating and is now committed to being a vegetarian for life. If I were to apply those same arguments ,it will be difficult not to be biased against such offering . This kind of offering is synonymous with Vajrayana tradition.Then again I have come to have so much faith and respect for Vajrayana practices to the extent that I believe there must be a valid explanation . Can someone enlighten me?
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No Tibetan custom is as well known as the offering of a khata or white scarf in greeting. The khata is an auspicious symbol. It lends a positive note to the start of any enterprise or relationship and indicates the good intentions of the person offering it or showing the respect.
These khatas are offered in appreciation of the individual's participation in a special event. Khatas are offered to religious images, such as statues of the Buddha, and to lamas and government officials prior to requesting their help in the form of prayers or other services. The offering of the khata indicates that the request is not marred by corrupt thoughts or ulterior motives.
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Khatas have been used in the Tibetan culture for a very long time. It represents sincerity of one's offerings. It may seem like a simple gesture when offering khata. However, offering khata to a monk or a highly revered person symbolizes respect and gratitude which in turn the monk or highly revered person will give back to the giver as a sign of blessings. It is also used in temples, holy sites or statues and during special occasions. Most khatas are made from silk as in my opinion it is considered as high quality and it is always good to make offerings of the highest quality. If one feels uncomfortable to use khatas made from silk, there are also khatas made from cotton or other materials.
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I believe most of us know where silk comes from - silkworms.During the process of making silk , the silk cocoons have to be boiled and the worms within it is inevitably killed.I don't think other schools of Buddhism make silk offerings.
I have not found a satisfactory answer to this practice especially when i am convinced about the qrguments against meat eating and is now committed to being a vegetarian for life. If I were to apply those same arguments ,it will be difficult not to be biased against such offering . This kind of offering is synonymous with Vajrayana tradition.Then again I have come to have so much faith and respect for Vajrayana practices to the extent that I believe there must be a valid explanation . Can someone enlighten me?
This is indeed an interesting question. Why do some Vajrayana Buddhist offer silk khatas? Really, I don't have the answers. Seems baffling since being Buddhist is on the basis of refuge vows, the first being no killing.
If we apply the normal reasoning of a Buddhist to not use or offer anything that causes sufferings to other beings as they are considered inappropriate offerings, then logically if the production process of silk involves killing and causes suffering to others beings (in this case silk worms), then silk khatas should not be used. Personally, as a Buddhist, I would take this stand if I were to offer a khata. There are khatas made of other materials available :) that can be used as an alternative.
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I believe most of us know where silk comes from - silkworms.During the process of making silk , the silk cocoons have to be boiled and the worms within it is inevitably killed.I don't think other schools of Buddhism make silk offerings.
I have not found a satisfactory answer to this practice especially when i am convinced about the qrguments against meat eating and is now committed to being a vegetarian for life. If I were to apply those same arguments ,it will be difficult not to be biased against such offering . This kind of offering is synonymous with Vajrayana tradition.Then again I have come to have so much faith and respect for Vajrayana practices to the extent that I believe there must be a valid explanation . Can someone enlighten me?
This is indeed an interesting question. Why do some Vajrayana Buddhist offer silk khatas? Really, I don't have the answers. Seems baffling since being Buddhist is on the basis of refuge vows, the first being no killing.
If we apply the normal reasoning of a Buddhist to not use or offer anything that causes sufferings to other beings as they are considered inappropriate offerings, then logically if the production process of silk involves killing and causes suffering to others beings (in this case silk worms), then silk khatas should not be used. Personally, as a Buddhist, I would take this stand if I were to offer a khata. There are khatas made of other materials available :) that can be used as an alternative.
The difference is that you are offering khata and you do not involve in direct killing the worms. Similar to consuming meat without killing animals, neither do you order the animal to be killed for your consumtion on the spot.
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Dear Lightning, I hope we don't get caught up with the same debate on vege and meat eating which you can read in this forum. Not withstanding all the reasoning /arguments/ pros and cons in that thread, we will have to agree that going vege or is a praiseworthy decision and have no conflict whatsoever with Buddhist values of love and compassion for all.
Also ,it is not about the beautiful meaning related to the ritual offering of khatas as mentioned by some here. There is no issue there .
When dealing with vege-meat eating etc and the topic here we narrowly think it is about transgressing the precept of not killing. It is a moral issue same as the use of furs or leather for fashion. The reasons given that the animal was already killed and one did not take part in it directly bodily or verbally is too dogmatic and not taking responsbility. I think there is more than that. It is about being aware that we are using/promoting an object which arise at the expense of the lives of others . It would be reasonable to use these objects if there were no other alternatives or if the particular situation makes it necessary. Eg, Eskimos wearing fur, Tibetans eating meat in land difficult to plant anything or you have a medical condition that cannot digest fibre and hence cannot be vegetarian etc.
The difficulty I am having is how to reconcile the use of khatas or any object which causes suffering or loss of lives of animals with our Mahayana Buddhist prayers to liberate all sentient beings from suffering and its causes.
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Nope I am just sharing my thoughts and I am sharing a healthly debate here :)
To reconcile the use of khatas or any object which causes suffering or loss of lives of animals is more personal feelings.
as mentioned in Buddha Sutra, Buddha had advice the meat comsumption under 5 conditions: you do not see, hear, ordered the killing of the animals or the animal were killed for your etc. Meat consumption under that conditions were allowed in Buddha's time. But Buddha had encouraged vegeterian taking for those who has lack of compassion.
It is until the Buddhism spread to China, vegeterian was widely spread and those Chinese masters had misunderstood Buddha's intention by reading and "wildly" guessed His intention that eating animal's meat is equal to taking parents' meat in certain Sutra etc. Thus without lineage oral instructions authetication, they, the Chinese Buddhist masters misunderstood Buddha's intentions. We got to understand that there is a difference between you eat the animal and you kill the animal. They are not the same thing or the same process.
Since offering of Khata is offering what you think is the best for the Buddha and your Gurus and there is no direct killing involve, hence it is considered acceptable.
Although, Atisha was a vegeterian, He still has to pertake some beef during the Guru Yoga on the 10th and 25th of the month to observe the bliss and emptiness tantric commitment.
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During a real debate session the other party would asked, if Lord Aitsha pertake beef during Guru Yoga session. Does He caused the causes suffering or loss of lives of animals? "CLAP!!!"
Please think???
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I am not in a debate mood ;D but below are some thoughts I would like to share:
1. Since silk worms suffered and sacrefied in the making of silk khata which then be used as offerings to higher beings - can we view it as a chance for these little beings to collect merits?
2. I don't agree with the argument - 'we don't engage in killing if we take meats from animals which we didn't ordered to kill specifically' - eating meats = killing, whether directly or indirectly, killing is killing
3. We can choose to offer cotton khata, don't use the silk version
Anybody else like to contribute ?
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There are buddhist who are meat eaters and there are buddhist who are vegetarians. One of the Buddhist precepts is no killing. I used to think that if i do not kill the animal or order the animal to be killed, then it is ok for me to consume meat. It was until i learn that consuming meat would mean an animal have to die and indirectly the act of killing, i have stopped eating meat.
Same goes to offering of silk khata, i personally would offer khata that is not made of silk because I think it is killing.
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Dear Lightning,
A realized master like Atisha taking beef is different from us taking beef. Sakyamuni Buddha scolding his disciples is different from us doing same to others. They do not collect karma unlike us with our impure minds.
Hence, for those who have seen the nature of reality and thus free from samsara and all causes of suffering, their actions are not ordinary and cannot be based on ordinary conceptions. Since their mind has attained spontaneous bodhicitta , their actions even if transgressing the precept of killing will bring benefit at the ultimate level. This level of wisdom can only come from one who has realized past, present and future lives and possess the power of clairvoyance.
To address yr question, Atisha 's action of partaking beef in a meditating session cannot be a cause of suffering at the ultimate level but a cause for freedom from suffering as his mind is free from all harmfulness.
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I think the point raised by KG is not about killing. It is about the practice of compassion based on our awareness of sufferings endured by living beings whose lives are cut short to satisfy our consumption requirement, be it as food , clothings or any other functions.
The unique quality of Buddhism is the teaching and practice of universal compassion for all sentient beings. We are not living in a perfect world but if we have a choice we should avoid causing any form of sufferings to any living beings.
KG's question is how do we reconcile this practice of not causing harm and suffering to others with the offering of silk khatas ( the production of which involves the killing of countless silk worms) ?
Yes, I agree with Tammy, perhaps we should offer khata made of cotton.
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My point down here is to let us not be over paranoid about using silk khata, as we do not process of killing or harming animals.
I agreed that Atisha is alike a Tiger who has the ability to jump across the river safely.
Whereas we, mudane human are alike foxes do not have ablity of jumping across the river.
He also have the ablity to salvage sentient being to higher rebirth.
But Atisha had purposly appeared in human form to lead a virturous example to educate on how to reach Enlightenment as a human.
Please kindly reminded that those tantric yogists who are not realised, still have to observe the partaking of beef too during Guru yoga session. Rest assure that there is no trangressing in precept of killing or harming sentient beings. Since eating is an action process which do not cause killing, suffering or harm to any sentient being.
Simlarly killing is not eating and eating is not killing. they are different actions. Because A is different from B and both of them are not the same. Both actions will lead to different karma and different resultant fruitation.
For Me, I would use mantra to bless the food that i consume and would consume them with Bodhicitta intention of norishing my body to gain enlightement. At the same, I hold on to the intention that may the meat of the whichever sentient beings I had consumed. May I quickly gain enlightement to salvage them with Dharma and may they become my retinue of disciples.
Other the side, I also disliked and grossed when watching videos on how the animals are being brutally skinned alived. I may refrain from using animal fur products as a slient protest against such brutality. But if I have to use animal fur product, I may visualise wearing it to adorn my tuleraly deity to gain supermudane merit and without feeling disgust.
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Correct on this sentence:
Since eating meat that the animal has been dead alreadly, is an action process which do not cause killing, suffering or harm to any sentient being.
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My question is, if Vajrayana buddhists know that silk are produced at the expense of silk worm suffering, why are we still doing it?
So far, I have not seen any conclusion on this discussion...
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My question is, if Vajrayana buddhists know that silk are produced at the expense of silk worm suffering, why are we still doing it?
So far, I have not seen any conclusion on this discussion...
There are a lot of products we used everyday are at the expense of the animals suffering. If in this case, all Buddhist would or should become vegeterians and refrain from using animal products. This also is another contridicting point which is seeming not logical too? However, Buddha had passed down precept that 5 types of "pure" meat can be consumed and neither I had heard in any sutra mentioned that there is a restriction of use to animal products, like you mentioned that The All knowing One knowing these products are at expense of animals' lives. Most important point is we should not involve in direct or ordered the killing.
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The khata (or daar in Tibetan) is a silk scarf used as an offering in order to receive blessings. The khata represents a garland of flowers. Each thread in the khata represents a flower in bloom. In the highlands of Tibet, where flowers and trees are rare, khatas are used as offerings of reverence and devotion.
As to the ethical aspect of using silk khatas, my opinion is - it is part of the Tibetan tradition and culture just as meat eating is accepted among them. The reality is, in samsara, we cannot avoid killing. We kill small organisms all the time whether we realise it or not. However, there is a way of minimising the karma. It is said that if you take a small portion of a whole lamb, there is less heavy karma than say, eating a whole fish. The best is to get out of samsara as quickly as possible before all the negative karma opens up.
I feel that if the high lamas use khatas and allow us to use them, the act of offering silk khatas is not a bad one. Imagine offering thousands of flowers in that one khata! There must be tremendous merits involved.
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silkworms complete life cycle lasts less than two months,and it only eat , eat and eat mulberry leaves everyday and doing nothing else until they die , ok ... maybe mate and lay eggs when fully grown ..... basically they are doing nothing that really benefit to planet earth but put it this way , when we offer the khatas that made by silk which produce by silkworms , i guess they do collect certain merits right ? would it be better for them ? maybe they will get better rebirth ? ? ?
How about pearls that we offer ? will you offer plastic fake pearls to buddha instead of the real one because the oyster must die to surrender the pearl to our waiting hands, realize that we offer the best to buddha by oyster suffering at the cost of its life . again , think about what the oyster can contribute ? i don't think silkworms n oyster can recite Om Mani Padme Hum ,i guess this is the only way to help them gain some merits ::)
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To me, I do not think that offering a khata means that we are killing the silkworms for the sake of it. Well, the 3 lower realms beings can't collect merits, in fact they collect more negative karma because of the non Dharma in them. They can't read, practice, learn nor speak the Holy Dharma hence for us to offer them to Holy statues, offering to the Sangha and loved ones collect merits for them in ways they cant. If we want to talk about silkworms being killed for their silk, what about the air we breath, the vege we eat, the water we drink? Arent we also killing? In the end, it is the right motivation that matters.
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Confession time : It actually didn't occur to me where the khatas come from and that living being died for it.
Thanks for the sharing from various people, who presented different viewpoints to consider :
- We can have the view of how silkworm's life is short and meaningless thus, this is a way to collect merits for their better rebirth as shared by bambi.
- We can have the view that high lamas use it, so it can't be bad, as shared by midakpa and naga seeker
- We can have the view that in samsara, we cannot avoid killing, a view shared by midakpa
- use cotton as shared by tammy.
I do agree with all the above. Do what your conscience allows or dictates.
cheers
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Dear ds friend,
On a very general level, i agree with what you said re: ' to each his/her own '.
Nevertheless , how sure are we that our conscience is telling us what we are doing is correct?
The danger of following one's conscience is that it will always be right for its owner. There is much hostility and fear in this world because to a large extent we all believe what we are thinking and doing is always more right than others.
Hitler declared that jews were the source of all the world's problems and convinced an entire nation and many others to believe him.Even the Catholic church did nothing to change that view and the holocaust that ensued.The japanese during their S.E.Asian campaign of terror declared chinese were subhumans and did terrible biological experiments on living prisoners because they said they had no worth.
If we are the silkworm or any animal and someone said to us, we are useless beings and the only good is we and our family to be sacrificed, would you agree?
The Dharmic basis for upon which one's conscience should arise in order to engage in wholesome actions is whether an action causes suffering to ourselves and others.Since others are more than us, others welfare and suffering becomes the most important thought in our conscience. In fact, we generally say someone has no conscience because they inflict harm on others, seldom when they are causing harm to themselves.
Lightning said a lot of things which are merely borrowed from examples of accomplished masters and sincere and serious practitioners whose mindstream had been highly if not completely purified. We can do the same as what they did but if our mind is impure and we have not even taken vows and holding them than the results will be very different for us and the objects of our actions.
I think it is very important for us to be mindful of the above and not leap frog with other's theories without us having any true practice or even simple realizations.
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Kris, in my humble opinion, various parties have offered their opinions on this subject, the discussion has been very interesting so far, however, I don't think it is within our acknowledge to draw conclusion. The discussion should serve as a way for us to reflect..
Agree?
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Confession time : It actually didn't occur to me where the khatas come from and that living being died for it.
Thanks for the sharing from various people, who presented different viewpoints to consider :
- We can have the view of how silkworm's life is short and meaningless thus, this is a way to collect merits for their better rebirth as shared by bambi.
- We can have the view that high lamas use it, so it can't be bad, as shared by midakpa and naga seeker
- We can have the view that in samsara, we cannot avoid killing, a view shared by midakpa
- use cotton as shared by tammy.
I do agree with all the above. Do what your conscience allows or dictates.
cheers
Thank you DSFriend...
All said are correct in their own way... It reiterates the choices we have each and everyday, conscious or not of its repercussions. We are after all in samsara and we need to make the best choices with the understanding and knowledge we have for now and persevere to learn up more in order for us to make better and correct decisions throughout the rest of our lives.
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Confession time : It actually didn't occur to me where the khatas come from and that living being died for it.
Thanks for the sharing from various people, who presented different viewpoints to consider :
- We can have the view of how silkworm's life is short and meaningless thus, this is a way to collect merits for their better rebirth as shared by bambi.
- We can have the view that high lamas use it, so it can't be bad, as shared by midakpa and naga seeker
- We can have the view that in samsara, we cannot avoid killing, a view shared by midakpa
- use cotton as shared by tammy.
I do agree with all the above. Do what your conscience allows or dictates.
cheers
Dear ds friend,
On a very general level, i agree with what you said re: ' to each his/her own '.
Nevertheless , how sure are we that our conscience is telling us what we are doing is correct?
The danger of following one's conscience is that it will always be right for its owner. There is much hostility and fear in this world because to a large extent we all believe what we are thinking and doing is always more right than others.
If I can't make sure that my "conscience" is reliable, I'd rather abstain from using silk.
In doubt, I abstain.
And in order for the silkworms to create merit, I'll make sure they are not forgotten in my merit dedication.
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silkworms complete life cycle lasts less than two months,and it only eat , eat and eat mulberry leaves everyday and doing nothing else until they die , ok ... maybe mate and lay eggs when fully grown ..... basically they are doing nothing that really benefit to planet earth but put it this way , when we offer the khatas that made by silk which produce by silkworms , i guess they do collect certain merits right ? would it be better for them ? maybe they will get better rebirth ? ? ?
How about pearls that we offer ? will you offer plastic fake pearls to buddha instead of the real one because the oyster must die to surrender the pearl to our waiting hands, realize that we offer the best to buddha by oyster suffering at the cost of its life . again , think about what the oyster can contribute ? i don't think silkworms n oyster can recite Om Mani Padme Hum ,i guess this is the only way to help them gain some merits ::)
NagaSeeker,
Good points you have brought up with regards to the silk worms and oysters. They do not do anything to benefit anything or any being. At least they die for something bigger than themselves and collect merits for it. May those silk worms and oysters who have sacrificed their life for offerings to Buddha will get a good rebirth and be close to dharma in their next life. Om Mani Padme Hum!
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Offering khata, very simple reasons:
1. As Tibetan custom, showed respect to own guru, high lama, sangha and elderly people
2. As an offering to collect more merit
3. Showed our sincerity, humble and put down our ego
4. Khata, seem become a more precious offering item to all the Tibetan practitioner and Tibetan.
This is may be is my own opinion, but I think is good to share.
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May those silk worms and oysters who have sacrificed their life for offerings to Buddha will get a good rebirth and be close to dharma in their next life. Om Mani Padme Hum! ( from Galen)
Sorry Galen such a prayer has hypocrisy written all over it which we should really try to refrain from.The silkworms were murdered because we don't respect every sentient beings right to live. Our mahayana prayers, to liberate all sentient beings become meaningless. We are talking about compassion , the mind that cannot bear the suffering of others. Do you think being boiled brings no suffering to the silkworms? Would Buddha be Buddha if he is selective and only saves higher beings?
As for the ' declaration' that silkworms have no benefit to any being or anything this is very shallow thinking. We live in an interdependent eco system wherein each of us has an effect on others and the whole planet.Have you heard of the butterfly effect ? What it establishes is that a butterfly fluttering its wings in China can have an effect in another country way across the planet. If unseen microbes like penicillin bacillus can benefit the entire human race, i would be careful to assume silkworms have zero benefits.
On another note, enlightened beings might as well wipe us humans out since from their pure perspective we are evil and contaminated with the 3 poisons which no worldly poison can match in terms of destructiveness and perpectuating evil.
We keep creating harm and suffering from the day we are born. One human can destroy our world. One human in history called Hitler did nearly that. Compared to a silkworm, who is more deserving to be ' sacrificed".Perhaps that's why the Christian God created the great flood to wipe sinful humans out and only save animals.
Hope this gets more of us thinking with broader perspectives.. we may just gain some realizations : ))
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May those silk worms and oysters who have sacrificed their life for offerings to Buddha will get a good rebirth and be close to dharma in their next life. Om Mani Padme Hum! ( from Galen)
Sorry Galen such a prayer has hypocrisy written all over it which we should really try to refrain from.The silkworms were murdered because we don't respect every sentient beings right to live. Our mahayana prayers, to liberate all sentient beings become meaningless. We are talking about compassion , the mind that cannot bear the suffering of others. Do you think being boiled brings no suffering to the silkworms? Would Buddha be Buddha if he is selective and only saves higher beings?
As for the ' declaration' that silkworms have no benefit to any being or anything this is very shallow thinking. We live in an interdependent eco system wherein each of us has an effect on others and the whole planet.Have you heard of the butterfly effect ? What it establishes is that a butterfly fluttering its wings in China can have an effect in another country way across the planet. If unseen microbes like penicillin bacillus can benefit the entire human race, i would be careful to assume silkworms have zero benefits.
On another note, enlightened beings might as well wipe us humans out since from their pure perspective we are evil and contaminated with the 3 poisons which no worldly poison can match in terms of destructiveness and perpectuating evil.
We keep creating harm and suffering from the day we are born. One human can destroy our world. One human in history called Hitler did nearly that. Compared to a silkworm, who is more deserving to be ' sacrificed".Perhaps that's why the Christian God created the great flood to wipe sinful humans out and only save animals.
Hope this gets more of us thinking with broader perspectives.. we may just gain some realizations : ))
dear KhedrubGyatso,
it is a very good point that you pointed out,but put it this way, no matter how you avoid from harming other beings,the moment you step out of your house, you had killed hundreds or even thousand of insect that you step on,how could you make sure the egg that you ate was coming from free range farm ? how many of us are vegetarian ? IF you have the merits to meet a high lama by chance , and your friend pass the khata for you to offer to the high lama, will you refuse to offer it and just folded you hands and say tashi delek to that high lama because deep down you are practicing compassion...
Om Mani Padme Hum!
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Dear Nagaseeker,
Its about one's intention isnt it?
When we walk out our door, I don't think we look for insects etc to step on right?
If we are sincere about not contributing towards animals being slaughtered for food, and we consciously buy free range age , for most of us that is as sincere as we can get. Since we are aware of not harming animals ,and had taken measures to avoid doing that, we will substantially avoid the full effect of any negative action even if insects etc are killed by our walking or the eggs turned out to be produced from factory.
We can not get a 100 % score in this karma created planet even with our best intentions and actions. We are doing great if we don't get a F mark which is intentionally causing harm.
In the scenario of khata offering,if u met a holy Lama without yr own cotton khata, and is offered a silk one, I don't think you are going to incur much karma . The most important factor which decides whether we will experience the full result of a negative action is one's intention. When this is not present, most of our actions will not have enough power to ripen as heavy negative karma. The negative potency is so little that it could only ripen as a slight headache the next morning.
The lamrim chapter on karma under the sub topic - the factors of completion of any action, and the severity of any actions is a great help to figuring out these sort of to do or not to do questions.
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My question is, if Vajrayana buddhists know that silk are produced at the expense of silk worm suffering, why are we still doing it?
So far, I have not seen any conclusion on this discussion...
Agree with you totally, maybe we should take a vote:
YES - offering silk khata is morally correct
NO - we should offer khata made of other materials than silk !
To start with - I vote 'NO'
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My question is, if Vajrayana buddhists know that silk are produced at the expense of silk worm suffering, why are we still doing it?
So far, I have not seen any conclusion on this discussion...
Agree with you totally, maybe we should take a vote:
YES - offering silk khata is morally correct
NO - we should offer khata made of other materials than silk !
To start with - I vote 'NO'
I feel there is no concern as long as we do not kill and we are merely burrowing the material to do offering.
My answer is Yes. I will continue to use silk khata.
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Lighting,
I totally disagree with you!
How can we make offerings base on other beings sufferings?
Do you know how is silk produced? The baby silk worms have to be BOILED to death before the silk thread are harvested. and then they would be cleansed and dye according to order and then weaves into cloth or khatas.
Not to mention the number of baby silk worms have to scarify for each khata.
Is'nt this totally against Budhdha's teaching ?
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Lighting,
I totally disagree with you!
How can we make offerings base on other beings sufferings?
Do you know how is silk produced? The baby silk worms have to be BOILED to death before the silk thread are harvested. and then they would be cleansed and dye according to order and then weaves into cloth or khatas.
Not to mention the number of baby silk worms have to scarify for each khata.
Is'nt this totally against Budhdha's teaching ?
My point is to drive are we over parnoid about certain things?
As mentioned that everyday, there are so many animal products that are utilised at their expense. There is no co-relation of karma to use the slik khatas, if not we will be accumlating negative karma by using slik khatas.
Again if that is the case then Buddha should declare that all devottes should have compassion by taking vegetarian. That may help more animals to avoid more sufferings, as many were to follow this instruction. But that did not happen.
I have yet to consulted on this question for a uitimate answer, until then it will still remain debatable.
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Thank you everyone for contributing towards this challenging topic .
I will go with the middle way approach to avoid extremes of absolutely good and absolutely bad since in samsara, we can only have the lesser of the two evils solution.
For ordinary folks , it probably makes little difference whether one offers cotton or silk khatas since we are making so much karma quantitatively and qualitatively in our daily actions of body,speech and mind.
For those who have just entered the path and practicing, one should be mindful of the welfare of others , respect all living beings, and not blatantly be a cause of others suffering , directly or indirectly esp when it is based on mere indulgence or pleasure. If there are easy or practical alternatives, we should adopt them. Hence majority of those in this category, conscientiously reduce their consumption of meat when vegetarian food is available or holding vows to abstain on special/holy days.
In the case of silk khatas, its a Tibetan tradition and an offering,hence its not something that we use to pleasure ourselves. It is not often we make such offerings in the first place and its usually accompanied by a virtuous motivation. But we should definitely refrain from buying , wearing silk products or eating roasted silk worms etc. as the decision and action is accompanied by self cherishing.
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Offering of silk khatas symbolises an auspicious offering of one's good intentions during the welcoming or commencement of a new relationship in the Buddhist tradition.It symbolises one's positive and pure objectskhatas are offered in a spirit of honour ,love and respect to spiritual images and statues of Buddhas,spiritual teachers,monks,nuns and political leaders.It is used to hang over altars and around sacred objects that adorn them.It is an honor for a person to be bestowed with this genuine act of blessing.
Is silk more suitable for a Khata?
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An extract from wikipedia:
As the process of harvesting the silk from the cocoon kills the larvae, sericulture has been criticized in the early 21st century by PETA. Mohandas Gandhi was also critical of silk production based on the Ahimsa philosophy "not to hurt any living thing." This led to Gandhi's promotion of cotton spinning machines, an example of which can be seen at the Gandhi Institute. He also promoted Ahimsa silk, wild silk made from the cocoons of wild and semi-wild silk moths. Ahimsa silk is promoted in parts of Southern India for those who prefer not to wear silk produced by killing silkworms. Ahimsa silk is also known as peace silk.
It seems even PETA and Gandhi are against it. So there must be some truth in the argument that silk khatas add to the killing of silk worms.
I have thought about the article about the silk worms not being able to do anything, and this is the best way for them to accumulate merits. On a partial note I agree that they will receive merits, yet this still does not warrant killing. It's almost as if we are saying that just because no animal can learn the dharma we should kill them and offer them to high lamas. no no no. For me this is not right.
There must be a logical explanation as to why silk khatas are used of course. We always want to offer the best to out lamas. Maybe in the past it was the only form of material that was available. I don't know. But the tradition can change for the better. After doing some research and reading this I am most definitely for alternative materials to be used as a Khata. After all the khata is a symbolic item, therefore it is what is in our mind that matters most when we offer it.
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Remember there is one famous lineage master Serkong Rinpoche who had His cousin as consort. One day, He asked his ordained disciples who take vegetarian, He saw some hands raised up and praised them that they are good and practice on compassion. The very next day, He asked who take vegetarian and the very same batch of students proudly raised their hands and He sarcastically said to them, Stupid, you fellows, do not know how to enjoy meat?
So what is the lessons learned from this erratic enlightened master? At first, He observed his students and in a way reprimanded those students who do not practice on compassion, when partaking meat during their meal. On the second occasion, He reminded the vegetarians on lack of bliss and emptiness without partaking meat.
Ultimately, it is about the upholding or transforming to the Bodhicita intention in every action we carry out. Consumption of meat generate bliss, wearing of tiger skin like Heruka are some of the expressions found in highest yoga tantra. Whether you are generating self cherishing thoughts or holding Bodhicitta intentions depend on your thoughts.
Hence, I felt that there is no concern offering slik khatas to Lamas and better if offered with higher intention.
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I believe offering khatas is more of a cultural thing rather than a Tibetan Buddhist practice per say... Silk is after all very precious material in the past so it was logical to offer it to Holy beings due to it's preciousness... because of this, eventually it became the norm.
If you feel uncomfortable offering a khata, no problem... there's always other ways to offer greeting of wellness to our Guru and it don't always have to be in a form of a khata. You can offer a smile and bow, it's just equally as good. This issue is almost similar to vegetarian refusing to wear leather. We're Buddhists, not animal rights activists haha.
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I am very uneasy with lightning's assertion that if high Lamas engage in certain actions, it means it is also ok for us to do the same.Quoting examples of enlightened or accomplished masters' activities and considering it as valid for our own situation is unwise.
While they have attained high levels of selflessness and have removed the three poisons, we are still in samsara .The same actions done by us ordinary folks will attract negative karma.
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If the practice of offering khatas is to collect merits and show respect to seniors, I feel it is not necessary that these must be made from silk. The fact that silk is considered more precious that other materials does not devalue its purpose if khatas were to be made from cotton or rayon.
So if making khatas out of silk kills the silk worms, will it mean that cotton should also be avoided, as there may be living things that could be harvested together when plucking cotton? If that is the case, then we can just use khatas made from synthetic fibre.
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I am very uneasy with lightning's assertion that if high Lamas engage in certain actions, it means it is also ok for us to do the same.Quoting examples of enlightened or accomplished masters' activities and considering it as valid for our own situation is unwise.
While they have attained high levels of selflessness and have removed the three poisons, we are still in samsara .The same actions done by us ordinary folks will attract negative karma.
Dear KhedrubGyatso?are you not practising HYT? Then ordinary unenlightened laymen like us are not allowed to practice HYT becos we are not qualified to do so as we have not even removed of three prison? Are we still at kindergarten level?
The key word here is dependent on your intention of offering? Again we do not commit the killing of silkworms and do not incur the karma of killing by offering the silk khata. It is just using the product of the dead animal to offer the Sangha community. Both actions are totally different and do not mix these two issue together?
Of course those who are not comfortable, then do not do such offering. But I felt that that the KG's view is considered narrow minded. As Serkong Rinpoche reminded his vegetarian students, that they do not know how to enjoy meat.
Why Serkong Rinpoche scold his disciples also has His valid reasoning
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Remember there is one famous lineage master Serkong Rinpoche who had His cousin as consort. One day, He asked his ordained disciples who take vegetarian, He saw some hands raised up and praised them that they are good and practice on compassion. The very next day, He asked who take vegetarian and the very same batch of students proudly raised their hands and He sarcastically said to them, Stupid, you fellows, do not know how to enjoy meat?
So what is the lessons learned from this erratic enlightened master? At first, He observed his students and in a way reprimanded those students who do not practice on compassion, when partaking meat during their meal. On the second occasion, He reminded the vegetarians on lack of bliss and emptiness without partaking meat.
Ultimately, it is about the upholding or transforming to the Bodhicita intention in every action we carry out. Consumption of meat generate bliss, wearing of tiger skin like Heruka are some of the expressions found in highest yoga tantra. Whether you are generating self cherishing thoughts or holding Bodhicitta intentions depend on your thoughts.
Hence, I felt that there is no concern offering slik khatas to Lamas and better if offered with higher intention.
Well, I think he scolded his vegetarian students because they had a huge ego when they raised their hands. They thought they were so holy by being vegetarian and expected the Lama to praise them. Hence, their vegetarian motivation became ego-enhancing so the Lama berated them to put their egos down. It is not what you are saying and he is not advocating eating meat at all.
With regards to the silk khata thingy, aiyar just use synthetic Khatas instead lor. That solves the problem once and for all. It is the meaning behind the khata offering and we want to offer offerings that are as pure as possible and refraining from using silk khatas that is tainted by killed silkworms sounds like a purer offering to me.
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it is what you think but not what your guru taught you right Big Uncle? Hence, you can ask your Guru about what Serkong Rinpoche meant that His disciples do not know how to enjoy meat.
It means the visualization and enjoyment of bliss and emptiness
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The offering of a scarf may seem to be a simple gesture but in Tibetan tradition it has its own significance and protocol and is governed by tradition. To present a Khata you first fold it in half length-wise, this represents the interdepencence of each other. Then when you offer the scarf to the person, you offer the open edges facing the person you are giving it to, the folded section will be towards you, which represents your open pure heart, with no negative thoughts or motives in the offering.
when offering a khata
RESPECT/GRATITUDE: For holy sites, honored monks, teachers, diginitaries and elders, the scarf is given with folded hands near your forehead, with a humble bow before them, with head bent over and palms joined in respect. You never put the Khata over their neck in this situation.In most cases the giver will receive his/her Khata back from the given, as a token of blessing back to them, specially when you visit high lamas and teachers. It is custom to put Khatas over statues, thangka painting, pictures of reincarnated rinpoche’s and altar spaces.A Khata offered to H. H. the Dalai Lama and received back by a Tibetan personally will be cherished and preciously kept as it is now a very special blessing ,talisman and protector. It may never come back into recirculation from that Tibetan again. It is also flown and put on Prayer Flags before one hangs them as a sign of your prayers being sincere and pure, also as an offering to the Gods for swift accomplishment of prayers and wishes.
AFFECTION/CELEBRATION: This is for special events, like marriage, birthdays, newyear,farewell & safe journey, welcome home, honor celebration of events and happenings, death ceremony and other day to day events in lifes journey.In the event of these occasions you can offer scarfs around the neck of recepients provided they are not from the first category, or lay it over the body in case of a deceased.