dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: hope rainbow on December 01, 2011, 08:16:33 PM
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I have seen the oracle taking trance of Nechung.
I have also seen the oracle taking trance of Dorje Shugden.
One important difference to highlight:
When Nechung takes trance, he goes and make offerings to the Dalai Lama.
When Dorje Shugden takes trance, it is ALL the highest lamas that go and make offerings to him, ALL THE HIGH LAMAS.
This proves that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha.
This proves that Nechung is a lay spirit.
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Hi Hope Rainbow,
I'm new here in the forum and your post is really interesting to note.
I've always heard of the oracles of Tibet and certainly never heard of this before! I've seen videos of Nechung and other oracular deities making offerings to His Holiness but I've never heard of high Lamas making offerings to an ORACLE!
Aren't the Lamas placed highest in the Buddhist hierarchy?
Please help explain
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Dear Jagger,
The high lamas make offerings to Buddhas, the offer mind-body-speech, they offer khatas.
They offer to Buddhas, not to the oracle person per say.
When the oracle takes trance and Dorje Shugden manifests, they offer to Dorje Shugden directly, they only do that because Dorje Shugden is a Buddha.
When the oracle takes trance as Nechung, or as other worldly Dharma protectors, it is those protectors themselves who make offerings of boby-speech-mind to the High Lamas, like the Dalai Lama for instance.
I'd also like to add this:
When Nechung, a worldly Dharma protector takes trance and communicate with the Dalai Lama, at one point the Dalai Lama would put on a red hat with tiny yellow stripes to signify that he is talking on representation for Guru Rinpoche and as such he is reminding him of the promise he made to Guru Rinpoche not to create havock and to protect the Buddha's teachings, and the Dalai Lama makes him renew his promise to Guru Rinpoche.
No such thing is done with Dorje Shugden, for he is a Buddha already and does not need to be subdued or be reminded of a promise... That'd be non-sense.
I hope this helps...
It is nice to have communication between all on this forum, I really appreciate that we are having that right now. Thank you and Cheers!
HR
PS: two bonus interesting observations:
1.
the costume of Nechung oracle has the shoe imprint of Guru Rinpoche on its hat piece to symbolize that he is under oath to Guru Rinpoche.
Dorje Shugden has an enlightened sword of wisdom instead.
2.
the costume of Nechung also has jewellery (ear pieces), such ornaments do not show on the oracle costume of Dorje Shugden because as a Buddha he does not wear jewelry as a sign or renunciation. These jewelry denote of the worldly nature of Nechung.
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Hey HR
thank you for the wonderful insight which you've given.
From you post, I understand the nature of Dorje Shugden which my kind teacher has been always telling me about. My teacher told me from the beginning that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. I didn't think much about it back then as I felt very comfortable in accepting Dorje Shugden as my protector deity.
Where I am living here there are many mediums who take trances of other ethereal beings which I've witnessed many times and they give me a very eerie feeling. But when I watch Dorje Shugden taking trance during the inauguration of Shar Gaden, I had a deep sense of peace and also awe because the first thought that arose in my mind was that this Being, this holy being people revere is so so kind because he takes so much effort to come in a trance to give us advise and Dharma.
This is never heard of before, a protector deity giving Dharma teachings. That is what I understand and in my daily prayer, there's a line whereby we enthrone Dorje Shugden as the Guru, Yidam and Protector.
I'm beginning to understand the nature of Dorje Shugden more and more with the existence of this website and forum.
Thank you to those who made it possible.
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HR, though Dorje Shugden does wear worldly boots, but dorje shugden manifest as a worldly protector but the mind is enlightened something similar to protector Setrab that has been propitiated by gaden monks for the past 600 years. Setrab also wears Guru Rinpoches sole on his head as a sign of allegiance to Guru Rinpoche but Setrab is an enlightened protector also.
My lama told me that if the being is positive it brings benefit to the oracle, if negative the reverse happens. Would be good if the oracles can share their experiences!
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I think the biggest proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha comes from the proclamation by great High Lamas like Kyabje Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and many other great and high Lamas. Even the current Dalai Lama himself proclaim Dorje Shugden as a Buddha in his praise before the ban.
If these great Lamas were truly wrong, then all their lineages and teachings on the Lamrim, Tantric teachings, lojong and so forth must be flawed as well. If they were flawed, then there can be no results and attainments arising from practice. Then there is no reason to practice the Dharma. It is dramatic but the logic is clear and simple. So many obviously awakened masters have said Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. It must be true.
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HR, though Dorje Shugden does wear worldly boots, but dorje shugden manifest as a worldly protector but the mind is enlightened something similar to protector Setrab that has been propitiated by gaden monks for the past 600 years.
Setrab also wears Guru Rinpoches sole on his head as a sign of allegiance to Guru Rinpoche but Setrab is an enlightened protector also.
Thank you DS, you are right, my observation about the shoe sole was mis-leading.
The shoe sole represents guru devotion, and does not signify that the protector is not enlightened.
In fact, Dorje Shugden's oracle costume also has a shoe sole with an enlightened sword in it.
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It is interesting to notice these differences and nuances when an oracle takes trance of a deity/being (enlightened or unenlightened)... And for me personally, to have witnessed an oracle taking trance of Dorje Shugden was such a privilege and most awe inspiring.
All the slander of Dorje Shugden being a demon just does not wash because during the most incredible "audience" with Dorje Shugden (through oracle taking trance), everything that was advised or spoken by The King was completely that of a Buddha! It was all about compassion, about harmony, about working together, about the Three Jewels, etc. Would a so called demon propitiate such teachings??? If one were to need any convincing at all, being fortunate enough to be in the presence of this Buddha and hearing his blissful words is enough "proof"... :)
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The shoe sole represents guru devotion, and does not signify that the protector is not enlightened.
Hope, Thanks for your observation it made me think more. Your statement above is a deeper understanding of what I wrote earlier.
In fact, Dorje Shugden's oracle costume also has a shoe sole with an enlightened sword in it.
So in the same breath, Dorje Shugden is loyal to Lama Tsongkhapa.
Most things there is no clear black and white just like the 'Great Exception' ;)
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Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. There is no denying that fact. I think that there is more proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha other than the fact that high lamas make offerings to them.
1. Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because he benefits people through his practice.
2. If he was not a Buddha, why the Dalai Lama can't exorcise him when the Dalai Lama is so powerful?
3. If he was not a Buddha, why did the 5th Dalai Lama and the 14th Dalai Lama write praises to Dorje Shugden?
4. Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because he does not ask for anything in return for what he has done for you.
5. If he was not a Buddha, why are there so many high lamas that support him?
Above are five points of proof that Dorje Shugden is ENLIGHTENED!
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to me, the simplest way of checking whether or not Dorje Shugden is a Buddha or not is very simple: Look at all the lamas who practiced him. Did they return or did they not return? When they return, do they resume their Dharma career as fast as possible, or are they beset with obstacles? If it was really easy for them to do Dharma in this life after an entire lifetime of practicing Dorje Shugden, then logically, Dorje Shugden is a Buddha and not a spirit as claimed. Besides, what does Dorje Shugden want from us when he grants our prayers?
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Another point to add:
When Dorje Shugden takes trance, it is sometimes his peaceful emanation, as Duldzin (Drakpa Gyeltsen) that takes trance. In this way, he emanates as a Lama (which is also what he was in one of his previous incarnations) and therefore gives teachings while in trance. This is very unique. While most protectors in trance only give advice and divinations, Dorje Shugden is also able to give teachings, practices and initiations. This is proof also that he is not just a spirit, for spirits or any beings lower than a Buddha would not be able to teach in this way, as a Lama, or grant initiations.
There are some videos on the YouTube account of an oracle taking trance of the peaceful Dorje Shugden, as Duldzin, which can be viewed here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrcnQfL6ZUg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrcnQfL6ZUg#) (part 1)
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Another point to add:
When Dorje Shugden takes trance, it is sometimes his peaceful emanation, as Duldzin (Drakpa Gyeltsen) that takes trance. In this way, he emanates as a Lama (which is also what he was in one of his previous incarnations) and therefore gives teachings while in trance. This is very unique. While most protectors in trance only give advice and divinations, Dorje Shugden is also able to give teachings, practices and initiations. This is proof also that he is not just a spirit, for spirits or any beings lower than a Buddha would not be able to teach in this way, as a Lama, or grant initiations.
There are some videos on the YouTube account of an oracle taking trance of the peaceful Dorje Shugden, as Duldzin, which can be viewed here: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrcnQfL6ZUg]www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrcnQfL6ZUg[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrcnQfL6ZUg#[/url]) (part 1)
That is amazing. This is the first time that I have heard that Dorje Shugden can give a Dharma talk via a trance! How many Dharma protectors can do this? Most deities or entities that take trance in ordinary mediums can only grant temporal wishes or remove temporary problems, and then perhaps they would drink some alcohol or smoke a cigarette before they go off. If Dorje Shugden as Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen can give Dharma talks when in trance and the high lamas that witness this do not say that what he said is wrong but instead listen attentively, if we doubt that the Dharma that is being spoken while in trance, we would be doubting all the high lamas that are present as well. So for sure Dorje Shugden is enlightened.
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I just read online on this website that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha and there are 10 reasons (of course in reality there's more) on why Dorje Shugden is a Buddha.
Gonna put them in point forms here for the benefit of those who are reading here.
The link: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/spread-the-word/write-a-letter/10-reasons-why-dorje-shugden-is-a-buddha/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/spread-the-word/write-a-letter/10-reasons-why-dorje-shugden-is-a-buddha/)
1. Dorje Shugden is the last incarnation in a lineage of enlightened Masters
Dorje Shugden arose from an incarnation lineage of enlightened Teachers. As the highly realized Master, Tagphu Kelsang Khedrub Rinpoche, said:
“You have manifested in different aspects
As Indian and Tibetan Masters,
Such as Manjushri, Mahasiddha Biwawa, Sakya Pandita, Buton Rinchen Drub, Duldzin Dragpa Gyaltsen, Panchen Sonam Dragpa, and many others.”
Their life stories are explained on the websites, dorjeshugden.com and dorjeshugden.net; and the book Heart Jewel by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. Since his lineage is enlightened, Dorje Shugden is also fully enlightened – i.e. a Buddha.
2. Dorje Shugden could not be subdued by the Fifth Dalai Lama or other Lamas
When Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen, the last human incarnation of this lineage, manifested as the Dharma Protector Dorje Shugden (as he had predicted he would do), the Fifth Dalai Lama initially developed the mistaken idea that he was a spirit and tried to subdue him through performing wrathful fire pujas. Although he and many high Lamas tried to destroy Dorje Shugden, they were not able to because he is a Buddha – only Buddhas, fully enlightened beings, are indestructible. This is explained by Tagphu Kelsang Khedrub Rinpoche in his praise of Dorje Shugden, Infinite Aeons:
“Then, although four undisputed powerful Tantrikas,
With concentration, began wrathful rituals to strike you down,
Through the power of having completed Guhyasamaja’s two stages,
You would not be silenced, and showed signs of heroism; praise to you!”
3. Dorje Shugden’s form teaches the paths of Sutra and Tantra
Dorje Shugden’s form teaches the complete stages of the path of Sutra and Tantra, and such qualities are not possessed by the forms of worldly beings. He appears as a fully ordained monk to show that the practice of pure moral discipline is essential for those who wish to attain Enlightenment. In his left hand he holds a heart, which symbolizes great compassion and spontaneous great bliss – the essence of all the stages of the vast path of Sutra and Tantra. His round yellow hat represents the view of Nagarjuna, and the wisdom sword in his right hand (like the one held by Manjushri and Je Tsongkhapa) teaches us to sever ignorance, the root of samsara, with the sharp blade of Nagarjuna’s view. This is the essence of all the stages of the profound path of Sutra and Tantra. He rides a snow lion, symbolizing the four fearlessnesses of a Buddha.
Explanation of his other features can be found on the websites dorjeshugden.com and dorjeshugden.net, as well as the specific enlightened function of each of the 32 Deities of his entourage and mandala, which are explained in a prayer written by Sachen Kunlo, one of the great Sakya Lamas.
Only enlightened beings display a meaningful aspect that teaches the entire path to Enlightenment. Therefore, Dorje Shugden is a Buddha.
4. Dorje Shugden is the incarnation of the five Buddha families
Dorje Shugden
Dorje Shugden is the incarnation of the five Buddha families and appears in five forms that symbolize the five families. These forms are explained in dorjeshugden.com and dorjeshugden.net and are called ‘the five lineages of Dorje Shugden’.
The principal Deity, Duldzin Dorje Shugden rides a snow lion. Vairochana Shugden (peaceful emanation) is white and rides an elephant. Ratna Shugden (increase/wealth emanation) is yellow and rides a palomino horse. Pema Shugden (control emanation) is red and rides a turquoise dragon. Karma Shugden (wrathful emanation) is dark red and rides a wrathful Garuda bird. These forms also symbolize Dorje Shugden’s attainment of pacifying, increasing, controlling and wrathful actions and his main form as Duldzin symbolizes the supreme attainment – Enlightenment itself.
Since Dorje Shugden is the manifestation of the five Buddha families, there is no doubt that he is the same enlightened nature as Buddha Vajradhara.
5. Dorje Shugden is the same nature as Manjushri, Je Tsongkhapa, Mahakala and Kalarupa
Lama Tsongkhapa
Dorje Shugden is the same nature as Je Tsongkhapa – they are the same person performing different functions. Many Dorje Shugden sadhanas state that Dorje Shugden is the embodiment of the “Guru, Yidam and Protector”, where “Guru” refers specifically to Lama Tsongkhapa. When we practice the sadhana of Dorje Shugden, we are indirectly practicing the Guru Yoga of Je Tsongkhapa. Gelugpa practitioners who have a sincere trust in Dorje Shugden will have no difficulty in generating unshakeable faith in Je Tsongkhapa and his teachings.
Both Je Tsongkhapa (‘peaceful Manjushri’) and Dorje Shugden (‘wrathful Manjushri’) are manifestations of the Wisdom Buddha Manjushri, as are the Dharma Protectors four-faced Mahakala and Kalarupa. Therefore, they are all the same enlightened nature.
6. Dorje Shugden’s mandala deities are the same nature as the body mandala deities of Lama Losang Tubwang Dorjechang
The Deities of Dorje Shugden’s mandala are the same nature as the Deities of the body mandala of Lama Losang Tubwang Dorjechang, who is in essence Je Tsongkhapa. Lama Losang Tubwang Dorjechang is the principal object of refuge in the blessed Gelug practice of Offering to the Spiritual Guide (Tibetan: Lama Chopa), which comes from Manjushri’s Emanation Scripture. In this practice, we visualize within his body the 32 Deities of Guhyasamaja. These 32 Deities manifest as the 32 Deities of Dorje Shugden’s mandala, indicating that Dorje Shugden is the same nature as Je Tsongkhapa and Guhyasamaja, and thus a fully enlightened being.
Of the Deities of the five lineages of Dorje Shugden explained above, the principal Deity is Duldzin Dorje Shugden, who is the manifestation of the aggregate of consciousness of Lama Losang Tubwang Dorjechang. The remaining four lineages are manifestations of Lama Losang Tubwang Dorjechang’s remaining four aggregates. Je Tsongkhapa himself therefore manifests as an enlightened Protector and retinue to protect his Ganden tradition.
7. The practice of Dorje Shugden was taught by Je Tsongkhapa in Tushita Pure Land
Dorje Shugden arose as the principal Protector of Je Tsongkhapa’s doctrine over 300 years ago, at the time of the Fifth Dalai Lama, who composed the first verse of praise to him. However, the current system of empowerment and worship is more recent and comes from a great Lama called Tagphu Kelsang Khedrub Rinpoche. Lama Tagphu went to Tushita Pure Land where he met Je Tsongkhapa and requested a teaching. In response, Je Tsongkhapa lifted up the cloth covering the front of the golden throne on which he was sitting, and the five lineages of Dorje Shugden emerged. Dorje Shugden then transmitted the practice to Lama Tagphu, just as Maitreya had transmitted five major philosophical treatises to Asanga in Tushita Pure Land in earlier times.
Lama Tagphu later transmitted these instructions to Pabongkapa Dechen Nyingpo, who passed them on to Trijang Dorjechang Losang Yeshe – spiritual father and son. From Trijang Rinpoche, these teachings were passed to our present day Gelugpa Teachers, many of whom now have large, thriving Dharma centers throughout the world and, collectively among them, tens of thousands of Dharma students.
8. Dorje Shugden has been relied upon by the highest Lamas, who themselves have been recognized as enlightened
H.H. Trijang Rinpoche
Well-regarded Gelugpa practitioners of Dorje Shugden include:
• the Fifth Dalai Lama
• Kelsang Thubten Jigme Gyatso 1743-1811 (a tutor to the 9th Dalai Lama)
• Losang Thubten Wangchuk Jigme Gyatso 1775 – 1813 (head of the Gelugpa in Mongolia)
• Ngulchu Dharmabadra
• the Indian master Shakya Shri Bhadra
• the 11th Dalai Lama 1838 – 1856 (who installed Dorje Shugden as
the Protector of the Gelugpa tradition)
• Gyara Tulku Rinpoche, Tomo Geshe Rinpoche (regarded by the 13th Dalai Lama as an emanation of Je Tsongkhapa)
• Serkong Rinpoche (regarded by the 13th Dalai Lama as Vajradhara)
• Tagphu Kelsang Khedrub Rinpoche
• Pabongkha Rinpoche
• Trijang Rinpoche
• Ling Rinpoche
• Khangsar Rinpoche
• Tathag Rinpoche (in charge of the Tibetan Government after the death of the 13th Dalai Lama)
• Zong Rinpoche
• Lobsang Tamdin
• Ribur Rinpoche
• Khen Rinpoche Losang Tharchin
• Lati Rinpoche
• Geshe Rabten
• Geshe Ngawang Dhargyey
• Khensur Rinpoche
• Khechog Rinpoche
• Dagyab Rinpoche
• Gelek Rinpoche
• Lama Yeshe
• Geshe Kelsang Gyatso
• Yongyal Rinpoche
• the 14th Dalai Lama (until he was in his forties)
• Dagom Rinpoche
• Gonsar Rinpoche
• Gangchen Rinpoche and many others
(more extensive information about these and other Dorje Shugden Lamas are available on dorjeshugden.com and dorjeshugden.net)
These great Masters themselves have all been recognized as realized, holy beings, with many thousands of Tantric disciples who revere them as living Buddhas.
The later Lamas were all direct or indirect disciples of the great Pabongka Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche. The 14th Dalai Lama says that Pabongka Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche were “wrong” to worship Dorje Shugden. But they have been recognized as emanations of the Buddhas Heruka and Amitabha respectively, and were the principal upholders of Je Tsongkhapa’s Gelug doctrine in their time; so how can they be wrong?
9. Dorje Shugden performs the twenty-seven deeds of a Buddha
The highly realized Master, Tagphu Kelsang Khedrub Rinpoche, composed a verse of praise:
“With deep faith I prostrate to you, Vajradhara Dorje Shugden. Although you have already attained the Buddha ground and engage in the 27 deeds of a Buddha, You appear in various forms to help the Buddhadharma and sentient beings.”
Dorje Shugden
These 27 deeds, explained in the Perfection of Wisdom Sutras, range from showing living beings the way to enter the spiritual path to liberation up to guiding them to the final attainment of Buddhahood. Since Dorje Shugden performs all these 27 deeds, it is clear that he is a Buddha.
Some people say that Dorje Shugden has harmed practitioners who have strayed from the Ganden tradition, but there are no examples of this forthcoming, whereas there are many examples of how Dorje Shugden has protected living beings. For example, Dorje Shugden was responsible for the Dalai Lama being able to safely travel from Tibet to India in 1959.
Even today, there are many Buddhist practitioners with their own stories to tell of how they have been protected by this Dharma Protector. Dorje Shugden’s name means ‘Vajra Possessing Strength’, indicating that he has great power and strength to spread Buddhadharma and to help people in these degenerate times.
10. Relying upon Dorje Shugden leads to supramundane results
The difference between a Dharma Protector and a worldly protector is that the former is an enlightened being whereas the latter is not. Worldly protectors have no ability to flourish the Buddhadharma nor to protect Dharma realizations in a practitioner’s mind. As a Dharma Protector, Dorje Shugden’s principal function is to protect our Dharma practice, not just to help our mundane affairs.
Dorje Shugden always helps, guides, and protects faithful practitioners by granting blessings, increasing their wisdom, fulfilling their virtuous wishes, and bestowing success on all their virtuous activities. Dorje Shugden does not help only Gelugpas; because he is a Buddha, he helps all living beings.
Dorje Shugden has removed obstacles and created the conditions for the extraordinary growth of Je Tsongkhapa’s teachings, and most importantly realizations of those teachings, in this current age. Je Tsongkhapa’s doctrine is now spreading to countries throughout the world via some of the largest Buddhist organisations such as the New Kadampa Tradition and FPMT centers.
Those who rely upon Dorje Shugden know that their spiritual realizations come from his blessings. However, as in a relationship with any holy being, this is something that can only be experienced by someone who relies on him with strong faith over a long period of time, steadily building their connection with him.
Gyara Tulku Rinpoche from Drepung Loseling Monastery wrote a prayer of gratitude, whose sentiments are shared by Dorje Shugden practitioners worldwide:
“First you gave me a highly qualified Spiritual Guide
Under whom I studied and practised Dharma.
When through following misleading advice I came close to entering wrong paths,
You immediately hooked me back into the correct path.
O Duldzin, King of the Dharma, I thank you for your kindness.
Your body is the synthesis of all Sangha Jewels,
Your speech is the synthesis of all Dharma Jewels,
And your mind is the synthesis of all Buddha Jewels.”
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There are so many strong evidence pointing to the fact that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. From all the recollections of people who were personally in attendance during a trance where Dorje Shugden manifested through the oracles and the countless articles that I have come across in the medias, there were not a mentioned of any hatred or spiteful feelings towards anyone at all. There were also times when the protector deity would give Dharma teachings through the oracle in trance. All these facts do really reinforced my belief that Dorje Shugden is really a Buddha.
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Thank You All for this great thread on the proof that the Protector Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. I will offer my argument in support of this here.
The 10 reasons stated in the article and quoted by jagger is definitely valid. That link is as follows for your convenience. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/spread-the-word/write-a-letter/10-reasons-why-dorje-shugden-is-a-buddha/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/spread-the-word/write-a-letter/10-reasons-why-dorje-shugden-is-a-buddha/)
First I would like to point out that the "ban" initially started in 1977 when the Dalai Lama began speaking out against the use of the deity as an institutional protector and laying restrictions on public performances of the practice. He stated that the Shugden practice is in conflict with the state protector Pehar and with the main protective goddess of the Gelug tradition and the Tibetan people, Palden Lhamo. He also stated that the practice encourages sectarian rivalry between Tibetan Buddhist schools. The Dalai Lama states that he has not forbidden the Shugden practice but only advised against it, and that individuals should decide for themselves if they want to practice it privately; however, he does not wish practitioners to attend his formal religious teachings.
From March 1996 onwards, the Dalai Lama decided to move more forcefully on this issue,which "is to be seen in connection with his interest in finding common ground in the main schools of Tibetan Buddhism so as to overcome precisely those exclusivist tendencies that Shugden is said to protect." Many believes this was a response "to growing pressure - particularly from other schools of Tibetan Buddhism such as the Nyingmapa, who threatened withdrawal of their support in the Exiled Government project. The Dalai Lama stated during a Buddhist Tantric initiation that Shugden was 'an evil spirit' whose actions were detrimental to the 'cause of Tibet'.The Dalai Lama concluded that henceforth he would not give Tantric initiations to worshippers of Shugden, since "the unbridgeable divergence of their respective positions would inevitably undermine the sacred guru-student relationship, and thus compromise his role as a teacher (and by extension his health)."
It is clear that the main and perhaps only reason that the Dalai Lama instituted the ban is due pressures from other schools of Tibetan Buddhism for political reasons. It is due to the collective karma of the Tibetan people and via that the Tibetan government that the ban was put into place as a means to "unite" the Tibetan people. However, the greatest paradox is that the ban actually divided the Tibetan people into 2 main groups ie the non-Shugden and the Shugden group. Also, resulting from the ban, Shugden practice has spread farther and wider than ever in its history.
By inferential logic, since many great lamas including the Dalai Lama have practiced the protector practice, the basis of the logic is clear that the protector is enlightened. Hence, the ban represent a crossroad and divergence for the practice to spread. One branch of the divergence is the non-Shugden practitioner. This branch serve to "strengthen and unite" these non-shugden practitioners including the CTA and the other branch is the Shugden practitioners who has gone on to spread the practice far and wide. So now, Tibetan Buddhism has 2 strong followings albeit these groups seems to be in conflict with each other; but both these groups have gained very high international profiles ie are famous.
In the Dharma, it is said that the most important thing is the result of practicing the Dharma. By the same logic, the result of the ban and hence the main argument that the Protector Dorje Shugden is a Buddha is the result of the ban.
A Buddha is a Buddha.
Whatever is done to him,
Or his practice,
Will ultimately bring positive results.
With folded hands!
YJ.
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From the iconography, Dorje Shugden has wisdom eyes, in the middle of his forehead perceives directly the totality of relative and absolute reality of past, present and future, and denotes his omniscient ability to perceive the three times simultaneously. There is also dark wind-swept wisdom fire” emanates directly from each pore of Dorje Shugden’s body. It is a manifestation of Dorje Shugden’s Bodhichitta, or great compassion. We can also see in his iconography, the lotus he sits upon shows that all his actions are based on and arise from great compassion; the sun disc atop the lotus reveals his direct realization of emptiness. These are some of the qualities of Buddha. Please check out for more details of Dorje Shudgen iconography here: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/introduction/appearance/appearance/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/introduction/appearance/appearance/)
In addition to the above, we can also see a lot of prayers of Dorje Shugden that show he is a Buddha. Recently, there is a prayer composed by the current incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen that says :
You are my Buddha, my yidam, my Guru, my protector and my complete source of blessings.
By relying on your rituals, mantras, prayers and puja,
I can always create a powerful Vajra Manjushri link to you that will extend to future lives.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/prayers/dorje-shugden-prayers/a-prayer-by-the-current-incarnation-of-tulku-drakpa-gyeltsen/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/prayers/dorje-shugden-prayers/a-prayer-by-the-current-incarnation-of-tulku-drakpa-gyeltsen/)
Therefore, it is very clear that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha the we can rely on.
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Hey HR
thank you for the wonderful insight which you've given.
From you post, I understand the nature of Dorje Shugden which my kind teacher has been always telling me about. My teacher told me from the beginning that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. I didn't think much about it back then as I felt very comfortable in accepting Dorje Shugden as my protector deity.
Where I am living here there are many mediums who take trances of other ethereal beings which I've witnessed many times and they give me a very eerie feeling. But when I watch Dorje Shugden taking trance during the inauguration of Shar Gaden, I had a deep sense of peace and also awe because the first thought that arose in my mind was that this Being, this holy being people revere is so so kind because he takes so much effort to come in a trance to give us advise and Dharma.
This is never heard of before, a protector deity giving Dharma teachings. That is what I understand and in my daily prayer, there's a line whereby we enthrone Dorje Shugden as the Guru, Yidam and Protector.
I'm beginning to understand the nature of Dorje Shugden more and more with the existence of this website and forum.
Thank you to those who made it possible.
Yes Jagger. Similarly, my Guru has also told me that the Protector is a Buddha from day one. Since, all attainments arise from Guru Devotion, once we regard the Guru as our Guru and then with faith and study/understanding/realizations/wisdom, we propitiate the Protector and regard him as an emanation of the Guru, who according to the Lamrim is without doubt a Buddha; then the Protector is the Guru/Buddha. So, all of our doubts if any evaporates. We can do this by continuing practice and study and checking the results; we gain more and more faith until finally all doubts are no more and we regard the protector as the Guru/Buddha/Protector.
My faith evolves from Guru Devotion.
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Dorje Shugden is confirmed a Buddha. There is no doubt about it.
The convincing proof we could realized are that Dorje Shugden has arisen as the principal Protector of Je Tsongkhapa’s doctrine over 300 years ago and from then the Fifth Dalai Lama till the current 14th Dalai Lama (before the ban was imposed) have recognized Dorje Shugden as enlightened. During this long period of time, there were many highest Lamas who relied on Dorje Shugden. All these Lamas could not be wrong!
Another fact shown that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha is that he is indestructible, even by the high Lamas including the Fifth Dalai Lama. It is only Buddha, a fully enlightened beings are indestructible. Dorje Shugden is the manifestation of the five Buddha families as explained. Only Buddha, an enlightened being has this capability.
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Thank You All for this great thread on the proof that the Protector Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. I will offer my argument in support of this here.
The 10 reasons stated in the article and quoted by jagger is definitely valid. That link is as follows for your convenience. [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/spread-the-word/write-a-letter/10-reasons-why-dorje-shugden-is-a-buddha/[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/spread-the-word/write-a-letter/10-reasons-why-dorje-shugden-is-a-buddha/[/url])
First I would like to point out that the "ban" initially started in 1977 when the Dalai Lama began speaking out against the use of the deity as an institutional protector and laying restrictions on public performances of the practice. He stated that the Shugden practice is in conflict with the state protector Pehar and with the main protective goddess of the Gelug tradition and the Tibetan people, Palden Lhamo. He also stated that the practice encourages sectarian rivalry between Tibetan Buddhist schools. The Dalai Lama states that he has not forbidden the Shugden practice but only advised against it, and that individuals should decide for themselves if they want to practice it privately; however, he does not wish practitioners to attend his formal religious teachings.
From March 1996 onwards, the Dalai Lama decided to move more forcefully on this issue,which "is to be seen in connection with his interest in finding common ground in the main schools of Tibetan Buddhism so as to overcome precisely those exclusivist tendencies that Shugden is said to protect." Many believes this was a response "to growing pressure - particularly from other schools of Tibetan Buddhism such as the Nyingmapa, who threatened withdrawal of their support in the Exiled Government project. The Dalai Lama stated during a Buddhist Tantric initiation that Shugden was 'an evil spirit' whose actions were detrimental to the 'cause of Tibet'.The Dalai Lama concluded that henceforth he would not give Tantric initiations to worshippers of Shugden, since "the unbridgeable divergence of their respective positions would inevitably undermine the sacred guru-student relationship, and thus compromise his role as a teacher (and by extension his health)."
It is clear that the main and perhaps only reason that the Dalai Lama instituted the ban is due pressures from other schools of Tibetan Buddhism for political reasons. It is due to the collective karma of the Tibetan people and via that the Tibetan government that the ban was put into place as a means to "unite" the Tibetan people. However, the greatest paradox is that the ban actually divided the Tibetan people into 2 main groups ie the non-Shugden and the Shugden group. Also, resulting from the ban, Shugden practice has spread farther and wider than ever in its history.
By inferential logic, since many great lamas including the Dalai Lama have practiced the protector practice, the basis of the logic is clear that the protector is enlightened. Hence, the ban represent a crossroad and divergence for the practice to spread. One branch of the divergence is the non-Shugden practitioner. This branch serve to "strengthen and unite" these non-shugden practitioners including the CTA and the other branch is the Shugden practitioners who has gone on to spread the practice far and wide. So now, Tibetan Buddhism has 2 strong followings albeit these groups seems to be in conflict with each other; but both these groups have gained very high international profiles ie are famous.
In the Dharma, it is said that the most important thing is the result of practicing the Dharma. By the same logic, the result of the ban and hence the main argument that the Protector Dorje Shugden is a Buddha is the result of the ban.
A Buddha is a Buddha.
Whatever is done to him,
Or his practice,
Will ultimately bring positive results.
With folded hands!
YJ.
Thank you for pointing this out YJ! It makes sound sense! What the ban is really about is due to political pressure from different schools. From the CTA, the people working under them have resorted to banning Dorje Shugden practitioners from entering shops and doing their necessary purchases to sustain life in order to suppress them. What spiritual effect do they really derive from it? Nothing really, it is only to look good in the eyes of the authorities but inwardly, their spiritual progress has gone backwards.
Also another thing to point out about this point of pressure is that people have mixed in their own agendas with religious agendas by playing God and undermining the divine. They have created deities which does not exist in the Buddhist pantheon in the first place in order to further suppress Dorje Shugden practice and followers. There's nothing to offer spiritually in these attempts but what happens is that it increases the chances of our downfall.
Bless our minds and praises to our lineage masters whom have taught us well, we're able to have superior Spiritual guides to guide us onto the path with less conflict
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Another point to add:
When Dorje Shugden takes trance, it is sometimes his peaceful emanation, as Duldzin (Drakpa Gyeltsen) that takes trance. In this way, he emanates as a Lama (which is also what he was in one of his previous incarnations) and therefore gives teachings while in trance. This is very unique. While most protectors in trance only give advice and divinations, Dorje Shugden is also able to give teachings, practices and initiations. This is proof also that he is not just a spirit, for spirits or any beings lower than a Buddha would not be able to teach in this way, as a Lama, or grant initiations.
There are some videos on the YouTube account of an oracle taking trance of the peaceful Dorje Shugden, as Duldzin, which can be viewed here: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrcnQfL6ZUg]www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrcnQfL6ZUg[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrcnQfL6ZUg#[/url]) (part 1)
Thank you Beggar for sharing. I agreed fully with you that if Dorje Shugden is not Manjushri Buddha, how would he be able to give such a profound teaching eg in an audiance at Losar 2013, Taiwan, on how we can harness the power of the mind to help overcome our negative afflictive emotions. He explained extensively how the mind correlates with our daily actions of body and speech. When the mind is calm, our bodily actions and our speech will also be calm and beneficial to our spiritual wellbeing. He also taught on how to strengthen our practice through prayers to help us overcome obstacles and gain attainments.
Thank you Dorjeshudgen.com for translating the teaching so that all of us can understand and follow.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/dharma-readings/a-teaching-by-dorje-shugden-losar-2013/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/dharma-readings/a-teaching-by-dorje-shugden-losar-2013/)
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Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. There is no denying that fact. I think that there is more proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha other than the fact that high lamas make offerings to them.
1. Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because he benefits people through his practice.
2. If he was not a Buddha, why the Dalai Lama can't exorcise him when the Dalai Lama is so powerful?
3. If he was not a Buddha, why did the 5th Dalai Lama and the 14th Dalai Lama write praises to Dorje Shugden?
4. Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because he does not ask for anything in return for what he has done for you.
5. If he was not a Buddha, why are there so many high lamas that support him?
Above are five points of proof that Dorje Shugden is ENLIGHTENED!
I fully agreed that Dorje Shugden is enlightened and he is a Buddha.
In addition to what were being highlighted, I would like to add the following:
Only Dorje Shugden, being an enlightened Buddha has the capability to ensure the safe journey of the Dalai Lama traveling thousands of miles from Tibet to India in 1959.
Dorje Shugden has been the principal Proctector of Je Tsongkhapa's doctrine for more than 300 years. Since then many high Lamas who were enlightened, have relied on Dorje Shugden. Therefore Dorje Shugden is also enlightened.
As a Buddha, Dorje Shugden does not only help Gelugpas, he helps all living beings. He has also shown in many instances granting blessings, wisdoms and fulfillment of wishes to faithful practitioners.
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I totally agree that Dorje Shugden is definitely an Enlightened Buddha!!!
I wish to share a little bit my own experiences in Dorje Shugden practice. I had been practice Dorje Shugden practice more than 2 years time. I connected this practice after i face serious financial difficulty. However many of my financial difficulties solve out of my prediction but IS the BEST solution of those problems. The outcome is so awesome and extraordinary.
Some more i met an accident recently, my car being spinned hence dropped down hill during a heavy rain day but fortunately i did not suffer any injure. At the moment of spin i feel that my car is being hold by a powerful strength and make my car being landed smoothly on the hill. Most of my family and friends were not believe i had met accident until they saw my car pictures.
Thanks Dorje Shugden for rescue my life and lesser my worldly obstacles hence giving me more time in this practice to help more and more peoples around me.
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I agreed Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because Dorje Shugden’s pratice really help me in many way ! He is not only help me to clear my worldly obstacles,examples like my company’s business became stable,my workers also became more hardworking and more responsible on their duty. My relationship with my families are more closer and united,my kids more obedient and independent,the most important point is my husband not stop me to learn dharma anymore,even he became more support in my spiritual path !! Although the Dorje Shugden’s lineage is long and details that I could not understand 100 % but through my experience I definitely feel that Dorje Shugden is a truly Enlightened Buddha !! NO DOUBT !!!
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I think the biggest proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha comes from the proclamation by great High Lamas like Kyabje Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and many other great and high Lamas. Even the current Dalai Lama himself proclaim Dorje Shugden as a Buddha in his praise before the ban.
If these great Lamas were truly wrong, then all their lineages and teachings on the Lamrim, Tantric teachings, lojong and so forth must be flawed as well. If they were flawed, then there can be no results and attainments arising from practice. Then there is no reason to practice the Dharma. It is dramatic but the logic is clear and simple. So many obviously awakened masters have said Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. It must be true.
Big Uncle, I agree with you wholeheartedly that the biggest proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha from the fact that many great high lamas practiced and declared Dorje Shugden as their protector. Some of the highly attained Lamas being HH Trijang Rinpoche, HH Pabongka Rinpoche, Domo Rinpoche and Gangchen Rinpoche to name a few. Surely not all of the high lamas could make the same mistake and worship a demon. And if these lamas were wrong (because they worship a demon), then it means all of the teachings and practices that were taught by them is also wrong and not valid after all. But this is not the case. Up to today, many of us read and contemplate on the "Liberations In the Palm of your hand"(transcribed by Trijang Rinpoche) to guide us on the path to enligtenment.
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Let me share my experience here related to Je Tsongkhapa and Dorje Shugden.
When I do not have time to do a whole sadhana, I would just recite the 5-line Migtsema mantra of Lama Tsongkhapa, who encompassed wisdom and compassion usually before I fall asleep. My memory is not great but after reciting the Migtsema, I found improvements over time and mind and emotions calmed down. So how is this related to Dorje Shugden?
Dorje Shugden is a wrathful emanation of Buddha of Wisdom, Manjushri and Je Tsongkhapa is Manjushri, Avaloketisvara and Vajrapani - all enlightened Buddhas mind.
When I practice Dorje Shugden, it does not give me adverse effects. In fact, reciting Dorje Shugden's mantra gives the same result as reciting the Migtsema and even more.
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I do strongly support the ten reasons why Dorje Shugden is indeed a Buddha. Yes, if great Masters, like Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche and Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, who strongly rely on him , can return again (as their Tulkus) to continue their work of spreading the Dharma, how then can there be any doubt about Dorje Shugden as an Enlightened Protector and Buddha.
My own conviction of Dorje Shugden as a Buddha comes from a more personal experience. A short while before my mother passed away, three years ago, i had received His practice from my Spiritual Guide. Just before her death, she suddenly heaved and breathed heavily and my heart stopped for a moment , thinking that she was going to leave this life in such a turbulent frame of mind.I had been praying to Shugden and making many offerings to the Protector in the weeks before my mother's death. However, there and then, I did a serkym offering and prayed to Dorje Shugden, to be there and to guide my mother out of this life. As I was in the midst of chanting His mantra, I turned and looked at my mother. She had passed away! Her face had become calm and peaceful! The crown of her head felt warm to the touch! Dorje Shugden was there. He had answered my prayer! He had come and taken my mum to a peaceful place! All the signs were there!
Would an unenlightened being have the compassion and the power to do this?Only a Buddha can help a sentient being beyond this life.
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I would like to focus on the third reason that 'ilikeshugden' gave as undeniable proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. This third reason is as follows - "If he was not a Buddha, why did the 5th and the 14th Dalai Lama write praises to Dorje Shugden".
This point is very important. The issue of the ban on Shugden will only make sense , if we see it in the light of the devotion of the 14th Dalai Lama toward Dorje Shugden in the earlier part of his lives( as manifested in his composition of the praise and prayer to Shugden - the Melody of the Unceasing Vajra). If we deduce that the 'change of heart ' of this great being(emanation of Chenrezig) toward Shugden has a more compassionate reason behind it, we will then be able to await with patience the unfolding the bigger picture.
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If more needed to be known about Dorje Shugden's compassion, wisdom and skillful means, I would advise to read this:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=4233.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=4233.0)
As the Protector of Nagarjuna's Midddle View and the Doctrine of Lama Tsonkhapa, Dorje Shugden continues to demonstrate his swift enlightened works.
Read the above linked article and the comments left on this post to see how much Buddha Dorje Shugden cares, and how much he can do when we create the causes for us to receive help from an enlightened being.
In Tibet before 1959, there were countless monks, countless high lamas and a great number of Rinpoche's. All of the highest ranked of the Gelug lamas relied on Dorje Sjugden, the Dalai Lama relies upon him, Trijang Rinpoche and many more, and state affairs as serious and dramatic as they were in the late fifties were decided upon relying on Dorje Shugden.
If such high lamas, much more, infinitely more qualified than me, do rely upon Dorje Shugden as an enlightened Protecting Buddha! This is also proof to me!
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Thank you for highlighting the fact that Dorje Shugden takes trance, the high lamas makes offerings. This shows the amount of respect high lama gave towards Dorje Shugden and Dorje Shugden must be at least same level or higher level than the high lamas.
I am checking out some photos and videos on the opening of Serpom monastery. I too found some interesting facts that showing Dorje Shudgen is a highly enlightened beings.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/at-the-opening-of-serpom-monastery/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/at-the-opening-of-serpom-monastery/) From this article, I can see the photo of Oracle being escort into the Prayer Hall. Monks are playing the long horn, ready to invoke the Dharmapala. It is like welcoming high lamas.
From the video showing Oracle taking trance (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/grand-opening-of-serpom-monastery-18-december-2011/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/grand-opening-of-serpom-monastery-18-december-2011/)), we can see that Dorje Shugden is blessing monks by putting his hand on the head of the monks. For high lamas such as Yongyal Ripoche, he is touching his head to the high lamas head. This also showing that Dorje Shugden is at least the same level or higher than the high lamas. When Dorje Shugden is in trance, he is holding vajra and bell. This is showing that he has attained both Compassion and Wisdom.
From the facts above, we can conclude that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit and he is an enlightened Buddha or high beings.
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Yes in many trances we see for the worldly deities the deity in the form of an oracle make offering and felicitations to the monks and lamas. However when Dorje Shugden takes a trance, the lamas stand reverently and make offerings to Dorje Shugden. The amount of respect and reverence shown to Dorje Shugden is as if it is welcoming a buddha or a highly realised lamas.
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Great subject input.
I would like to share the reason that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because I decide he is a Buddha.
It is said that if we view our Guru as a Buddha we receive the blessings of a Buddha. This statement speaks volumes about how our subjective reality is created by our own mind.
First we establish what a Buddha is and how it is possible for such a being to exist. All sorts of things help us establish these things - logic, experience, anecdotes, scripture etc. These things give rise to a conclusive decision in our own mind that Buddhas exist.
Also, it is said we do not know for sure who is actually Buddha unless we ourselves are a Buddha. So, we can give all sorts of reasons why Dorje Shugden is a Buddha but these are inferential cognizers realizing a phenomena indirectly. By deepening realization we eventually come to know it directly. These are the two types of proof. But really, based on understanding the benefits that come from seeing the Guru as Buddha, we decide to hold that perception. This applies to our view of other people and indeed all phenomena. Through generating and becoming familiar with this view, we come to rest non-conceptually in the meaning of this view, in its nature, which is none other than the conventional and ultimate nature of our own mind that is not separate from the Gurus mind - mahamudra.
There is a function is describing all the things you've shared, but I believe these things about the Protector are underpinned by the things that establish that Buddhas exist, and the two paraphrases I mentioned indicate that it boils down to our own subjective decision based on our belief.
If you believe Buddhas exist, and you decide someone difficult or a difficult circumstance is a Buddha, you will receive the blessings of a Buddha. This is a very profound training and is the reason that Guru Yoga is the quick path. Therefore, Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because you've decided he is. And boy o boy, tell me those blessings aren't intense!
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Likewise, if we view someone as evil, as a demon, as bad, as the object of our aversion, tell me, will you not be haunted by the object created within your own consciousness?
I do it all the time!
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Dorje Shugden is definitely a Buddha. By his actions along which is the same as the works of a Buddha one can therefore conclude his mind is enlightened nature. If that is not the case, how would one conclude Buddha Shakyamuni is a Buddha?
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/spread-the-word/write-a-letter/10-reasons-why-dorje-shugden-is-a-buddha/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/spread-the-word/write-a-letter/10-reasons-why-dorje-shugden-is-a-buddha/)
For all the reasons mentioned in the article and if one still consider him a spirit, if spirit existed, why cannot a Buddha exist as well? What are the difference between a Buddha and a spirit/human then?
If one can ask advise from an unknown spirit thru a medium, why not request for help from enlightened being thru an oracle?
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If Dorje Shugden is a not Buddha:-
1) How can the the Dharma been taught when the oracle took trance
2) Why the High Lamas have to pay respect to Dorje Shugden during the trance?
3) Seats on the throne during the trance?
4) Holding Vajra & bell during the trance?
5) How could Dalai Lama been save from the attempt murdered by the Chinese, if not the helps from Dorje Shugden?
6) Why does those high Lamas who have practiced Dorje Shugden are mostly highly reincarnate lamas. E.g Daknak Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche?
Dorje Shugden is definately a Buddha; an enlighten being. A Buddha that is so compassionate to manifest as a protector, to protect, to guide our spiritual practices not only this life but many lifetimes to go.
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If Dorje Shugden is not a Buddha, why would The 5th Dalai Lama himself composed a poem for Dorje Shugden after he manifested as a Protector. That itself it took how many pujas organized by the followers of The 5th Dalai Lama during the time "he manifested as a spirit after he was killed by the fanatic Dalai Lama followers" as claimed. They did countless pujas to kill off Dorje Shugden but failed miserably. In the end the 5th Dalai Lama composed a praise which is still being recited till today in monasteries to proof that Dorje Shugden is really a Buddha and not as an angry spirit.
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When Dorje Shugden takes trance - all the Abbots and High Lamas gets blessing from him.
He has a throne to sit in front of the altar.
If Dorje Shugden is not a Buddha why do they want to get his blessings? This indicates very clearly that all the Lamas recognises Dorje Shugden as an Enlightened Being.
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I am surprised that this is still a topic to be discussed. Perhaps it is to educate new readers. Dorje Shugden is undoubtedly an enlightened being. I heard that the Panchen Lama has written a prayer to Dorje Shugden too. Has anyone seen these praises?
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I have known of practitioners who had audiences with Dorje Shugden previously. When Dorje Shugden gives out advices, it is required to be followed through by those who made the request for full result to come true. This is due to the strong faith the practitioner has on Dorje Shugden that the results become fruitful.
As with Nechung who is unenlightened and just like other worldly protectors, he himself need to propitiate and pay homage and make offerings to the Dalai Lama as he is NOT a Buddha.
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When Dorje Shugden takes trance, all the high Lamas and Abbots goes to DS for blessings and they stand up when he enters the room. DS even has a throne in front of the altar for him to sit.
If Dorje Shugden is not an Enlightened Buddha then how come all the high Lamas goes to him for blessing and not the other way around?
This is one very important point to indicate that DS is not a spirit but a Buddha!
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Great subject input.
I would like to share the reason that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because I decide he is a Buddha.
It is said that if we view our Guru as a Buddha we receive the blessings of a Buddha. This statement speaks volumes about how our subjective reality is created by our own mind.
First we establish what a Buddha is and how it is possible for such a being to exist. All sorts of things help us establish these things - logic, experience, anecdotes, scripture etc. These things give rise to a conclusive decision in our own mind that Buddhas exist.
Also, it is said we do not know for sure who is actually Buddha unless we ourselves are a Buddha. So, we can give all sorts of reasons why Dorje Shugden is a Buddha but these are inferential cognizers realizing a phenomena indirectly. By deepening realization we eventually come to know it directly. These are the two types of proof. But really, based on understanding the benefits that come from seeing the Guru as Buddha, we decide to hold that perception. This applies to our view of other people and indeed all phenomena. Through generating and becoming familiar with this view, we come to rest non-conceptually in the meaning of this view, in its nature, which is none other than the conventional and ultimate nature of our own mind that is not separate from the Gurus mind - mahamudra.
There is a function is describing all the things you've shared, but I believe these things about the Protector are underpinned by the things that establish that Buddhas exist, and the two paraphrases I mentioned indicate that it boils down to our own subjective decision based on our belief.
If you believe Buddhas exist, and you decide someone difficult or a difficult circumstance is a Buddha, you will receive the blessings of a Buddha. This is a very profound training and is the reason that Guru Yoga is the quick path. Therefore, Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because you've decided he is. And boy o boy, tell me those blessings aren't intense!
WOW! I am gobsmacked! I never looked at it this way before... how one's very perception is the root to both blessings and negativeness... I guess that is why in practice we dwell on impermanence and emptiness... because all is not what it seems but how we perceive it to be. But even our own perceptions are muddled with self made doubts.
This is indeed a good practice to dwell on... I am not completely sure if my grasping of what you shared is as what it should be but something makes sense and for that I thank you very much!
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I agreed. It is so ironic isn't it? That is why I still do not understand why would people call Lord Dorje Shugden a spirit when He's not even close to this term, people just follow blindly. Just because of that one person who doesn't like to eat celery, it doesn't mean all of us have to refrain from eating it right? Same thing, just because one person( CTA ) doesn't believe in the existence of Lord Dorje Shugden, it doesn't mean all of us have to go against His practise.
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Dear Hope Rainbow,
I agree with that you have said. Dorje Shugden is indeed a Buddha in that sense. I mean, when all the high lamas worship him, how can they be wrong? If someone says that Dorje Shugden isn't a buddha, then its like saying that high lamas have no power and are not high lamas. Doesn't make any sense to me. One cannot believe in high lamas and respect them to greatly and still say that Dorje Shugden is not a Buddha. Just a thought.