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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: Klein on November 30, 2011, 11:30:24 AM
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If I do dharma work full time in a Buddhist organisation with a pay cut, how can I prepare for my old age when I retire from working? Who's going to pay for my livelihood and medical bills when I'm old? Will the organisation continue to be generous to take care of me as promised? I think these are some real concerns that people have when deciding on doing dharma work full time.
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Whether we will be OK when we are old is not dependent on how much money we earn or have now. Even if we make or have a lot of money now, all can be lost any time.
What actually takes care of us is our merits. If we have merits, all that we need will come to us whether it is money, health, the right conditions to practice Dharma, the opportunity to collect more merits or any type of assistance.
Doing Dharma work full time in a Buddhist Organisation is one of the best way to collect merits. Why is that? It is because a Buddhist Organisation is a platform to bring Dharma and mental relieve to many people. If we support such an organisation in any way, we are actually extending our help to all the people who will be benefited by this organisation.
Therefore, we should not worry when doing Dharma work. If there is karma, definitely doing work that benefit others will never cause us disadvantage or harm in the future. If we believe in karma and we should do what brings real benefit to others and ourselves now. By doing so, we create the true cause of happiness in the future.
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We plan for security in our old age based on the assumption that we'll live to a ripe old age. With this assumption, we seek to earn as much money as we can, while we are working, so that we have a tidy sum to live out old age in ease and security.
However, how our live unfolds each second is not within our control. It's our karma that controls it.Thus, we may have accumulated enough for our old age, but in one fell sweep, the hand of karma deals us a heavy blow. We are cut down by disease or some other misfortune dictated by our karma.
As is said in the Lamrim, even if we totally renounce this life and go fully into Dharma, we're not likely to die in starvation and deprived of a shelter. Lord Buddha had accumulated ample merits and dedicated them to those who would truly and fully renounce this life to ensure that they will not be without food or shelter or basic mundane needs.
What WT says is true. When we do Dharma work full time and with sincerity to benefit others, we will be accumulating tremendous merits which will only create causes for our happiness. On the other hand, if we solely pursue the wealth of this life, we are likely to accumulate much negative karma which may result in our experiencing more suffering than happiness.
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Klein,
Are you thinking of devoting your life to fulltime dharma work, hence the worry?
If so, I think your worries is unfounded.
Doing dharma work (with the right motivation, of course) brings a wealth of merits for the person and his/her family. Everyday, make a prayer to Dorje Shugden to his protection and blessings and you WILL be OK. Have no worries cause the protector will not abandon you in any way.
Just DO it!!
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Whether we will be OK when we are old is not dependent on how much money we earn or have now. Even if we make or have a lot of money now, all can be lost any time.
What actually takes care of us is our merits. If we have merits, all that we need will come to us whether it is money, health, the right conditions to practice Dharma, the opportunity to collect more merits or any type of assistance.
Doing Dharma work full time in a Buddhist Organisation is one of the best way to collect merits. Why is that? It is because a Buddhist Organisation is a platform to bring Dharma and mental relieve to many people. If we support such an organisation in any way, we are actually extending our help to all the people who will be benefited by this organisation.
Therefore, we should not worry when doing Dharma work. If there is karma, definitely doing work that benefit others will never cause us disadvantage or harm in the future. If we believe in karma and we should do what brings real benefit to others and ourselves now. By doing so, we create the true cause of happiness in the future.
Thank you for your explanation. Looks like I must put into practice what I believe in. If I believe in karma, then I must believe that I'll be fine during my old age if I generate enough merits by doing dharma work.
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Whether we will be OK when we are old is not dependent on how much money we earn or have now. Even if we make or have a lot of money now, all can be lost any time.
What actually takes care of us is our merits. If we have merits, all that we need will come to us whether it is money, health, the right conditions to practice Dharma, the opportunity to collect more merits or any type of assistance.
Doing Dharma work full time in a Buddhist Organisation is one of the best way to collect merits. Why is that? It is because a Buddhist Organisation is a platform to bring Dharma and mental relieve to many people. If we support such an organisation in any way, we are actually extending our help to all the people who will be benefited by this organisation.
Therefore, we should not worry when doing Dharma work. If there is karma, definitely doing work that benefit others will never cause us disadvantage or harm in the future. If we believe in karma and we should do what brings real benefit to others and ourselves now. By doing so, we create the true cause of happiness in the future.
Thank you for your explanation. Looks like I must put into practice what I believe in. If I believe in karma, then I must believe that I'll be fine during my old age if I generate enough merits by doing dharma work.
Thank you WozelTenzin for the explanation. I always have this question in my mind and that stops me from doing more in Dharma. So, if I do Dharma work whole-heartedly my old age will be well taken cared of.
Does that also mean that I would not be able to enjoy the other pleasures of like like travelling? I like to travel and needs money to travel. Doing Dharma full time may not allow me to do so.
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Dear Klein,
WoselTenzin, Vajrastorm and Tammy had explained very well why you should pursue Dharma work fulltime without any worry. Go fulltime in your Dharma work and devote yourself completely to serve your Guru and Dharma. When you have a higher purpose in your life e.g. serving the Guru and Dharma, seeking liberation and enlightenment, all the necessary resources that you need to accomplish these will come to you.
As a Buddhist we should have complete faith in the Three Jewels in everything that we do. We should have complete reliance on our Guru who is inseparable from our Yidam and Protector. The Guru, Yidam and Protector are our only refuge.
If you practise Dorje Shugden, why worry? Just rely on Dorje Shugden! Dorje Shugden will help you all the way to fulfill your spiritual goals!
Dear Galen,
Travelling as an activity is not wrong but it is how our mind thinks that matters. Our mind is very caught up with the pleasures of our senses. We love to travel because we like to see, hear, feel, taste and touch the vast diversity of cultures, traditions and places in the World we live in. What is the point of travelling if it results in us getting more attached to things in this life? We should be concerned with the welfare of our future lives instead.
Attachment is one of the root causes of our suffering. We need to realize that everything we experience this life will come to an end when we die! And we can die any moment. Why waste our precious human lives when we should be accumulating merits, purifying our karma and transforming our minds?
If we are in Dharma, our main purpose is to strive for liberation and Enlightenment as soon as possible. Doing Dharma work does not deprive you from travelling or the things that you like doing in samsara. You need to ask yourself what is your intention to travel? Will travelling help you in your Dharma practice? If travelling distracts you from your Dharma practice or generates more attachment in you, then you should avoid travelling.
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Whether we will be OK when we are old is not dependent on how much money we earn or have now. Even if we make or have a lot of money now, all can be lost any time.
What actually takes care of us is our merits. If we have merits, all that we need will come to us whether it is money, health, the right conditions to practice Dharma, the opportunity to collect more merits or any type of assistance.
Doing Dharma work full time in a Buddhist Organisation is one of the best way to collect merits. Why is that? It is because a Buddhist Organisation is a platform to bring Dharma and mental relieve to many people. If we support such an organisation in any way, we are actually extending our help to all the people who will be benefited by this organisation.
Therefore, we should not worry when doing Dharma work. If there is karma, definitely doing work that benefit others will never cause us disadvantage or harm in the future. If we believe in karma and we should do what brings real benefit to others and ourselves now. By doing so, we create the true cause of happiness in the future.
Well said! This should clear the doubts in people who want to do Dharma work full time. Believing in Karma strongly will help to clear our doubts in this aspects. A friend of mine who is working for Dharma full time told me that for someone to work for Dharma full time, he/she needs a lot of merits. That is why, not many people are working full time for Dharma and working for Dharma, one collects tremendous amount of merits, especially if the motivation is set correctly. A blog post by Tsem Tulku Rinpoche gives a very clear explanation.
http://blog.tsemtulku.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/me/dharma-work-attitude-tdl.html (http://blog.tsemtulku.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/me/dharma-work-attitude-tdl.html)
I truly rejoice for people who are working full time for Dharma.
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Thanks for all of your comments.
It's well explained.
It's really true that the Buddhist Organization is a platform for us to collect great merits because this is the place where put put our pure motivation, our effort & energy help and benefits others through the spiritual teaching that we learn.
We Klein worry is what the world perceive as that money is the insurance, care and happiness when we are old.
But if we believe in Karma & Merits, fully contribute yourselves in such a meritorious work is the eternal happiness not only until end of this life but for our future life too.
Being a fulltime in dharma is also a great training to nurture/habituate us with the virtue act according to the Lamrim. How wonderful! You learn and practice at the same time.
Our happiness does not depend on how much we earn or how high our position is in the organization but on how much we realize suffering in samsara and how much we want to transform our mind and act to benefits others.
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Dear Galen,
Travelling as an activity is not wrong but it is how our mind thinks that matters. Our mind is very caught up with the pleasures of our senses. We love to travel because we like to see, hear, feel, taste and touch the vast diversity of cultures, traditions and places in the World we live in. What is the point of travelling if it results in us getting more attached to things in this life? We should be concerned with the welfare of our future lives instead.
Attachment is one of the root causes of our suffering. We need to realize that everything we experience this life will come to an end when we die! And we can die any moment. Why waste our precious human lives when we should be accumulating merits, purifying our karma and transforming our minds?
If we are in Dharma, our main purpose is to strive for liberation and Enlightenment as soon as possible. Doing Dharma work does not deprive you from travelling or the things that you like doing in samsara. You need to ask yourself what is your intention to travel? Will travelling help you in your Dharma practice? If travelling distracts you from your Dharma practice or generates more attachment in you, then you should avoid travelling.
Dear Dondrup,
Thank you for your explanation.
So, when I travel for Dharma or do dharma work when travelling, then it I am accumulating merits while still enjoying myself. How wonderful!
I should look out for more pilgrimages to go.
And thank you to Dolce Vita for attaching the link. Very well explained.
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Thank you all for the sharing .
The points you all mentioned do clear my doubts in understanding dong dharma work full time.
I used to think that "when I earn enough money for retired, then I will do dharma full time" the more I understand dharma, the more urgently wanting to do more dharma, and wishing people around me can be in dharma too.
One day, if I doing dharma work full time, I will be rich in collecting MERITS, rich or poor it won't matter anymore.
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If I do dharma work full time in a Buddhist organisation with a pay cut, how can I prepare for my old age when I retire from working? Who's going to pay for my livelihood and medical bills when I'm old? Will the organisation continue to be generous to take care of me as promised? I think these are some real concerns that people have when deciding on doing dharma work full time.
Dear Klein,
I too had the same concerns as you before I went full time.
The nudge came when my Guru said - all the things we , ordinary folks do and take pride in eg. getting a job, work and save for rainy day and old age etc. are also done by animals. Animals look for food ,raise their young and save provisions for winters. What make us different from animals is our ability to care for others, to engage in spiritual practice so that we be prepared NOT only for this life but also for future lives.
Only human have this unique opportunity. We are the blind turtles surfacing in the vast ocean, the golden yoke of dharma by our good merits is floating very near. All we need to do is poke through this yoke.
Yes, don't hesitate. If we decide to wait till we save enough before doing full time dharma, the chance may never come as the time of death is uncertain.
Best wishes.
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Wow, this is an interesting topic!
I actually got asked by somebody that we can't see the merits, how do we know that doing Dharma will generate good merits? If I work outside, and still be a good citizen and help others tirelessly, don't I generate merits too?..so isn't it the same?
So is it a leap of faith, thinking that if you do Dharma work full time, by the accumulation of merits, you will be "taken care" of in one's old age? But then what happens if the old age comes and then you're not taken care of?
...Hmm..but I guess by doing Dharma work full time, and learning the Dharma along the way... it will prepare you for accepting one's old age regardless of situation and condition?
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But if we believe in Karma & Merits, fully contribute yourselves in such a meritorious work is the eternal happiness not only until end of this life but for our future life too.
Being a fulltime in dharma is also a great training to nurture/habituate us with the virtue act according to the Lamrim. How wonderful! You learn and practice at the same time.
Our happiness does not depend on how much we earn or how high our position is in the organization but on how much we realize suffering in samsara and how much we want to transform our mind and act to benefits others.
In additon to the above, not only you learn and to practise at the same time, you are also getting a pay cheque that is well worth accepting with joy and sense of fulfillment in helping and benefit someone out there as compared to getting a pay cheque to feed our own greed and attachment...thinking that all this will secure and prepare one's old age when money and material things are not permanent in nature and is not forever ours. Do we have the karma to have them?
Even said that, if you believe and trust the law of cause and effect and having all the 5 healthy faculties of an able human being why not use it to full potential to generate these bounteous merits by working full time in a dharma organisation where you can help someone out there to the path of happiness? Doing this with good and virtuous motivation, you are actually creating a cause for yourself and your love ones to find that "happiness" you are seeking for. Do that and trust it all the way, no ifs and buts!
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Dharma and work when put together people focus on the money aspect... Yes, it is no doubt that many assume that Dharma work does not pay well... It need not be that way... Dharma careers in spreading the teachings of Buddha does not have to be "a loss business"
In today's modern age and time, we can make Dharma work not a losing "business". Work hard, be creative, generate funds to sustain the works, which can include your own wages. This does not mean however, you are greedy and be unreasonable!
Just my thoughts...plus, when one chooses Dharma as a career it should never be about the money... It is about benefitting others..
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Dharma and work when put together people focus on the money aspect... Yes, it is no doubt that many assume that Dharma work does not pay well... It need not be that way... Dharma careers in spreading the teachings of Buddha does not have to be "a loss business"
In today's modern age and time, we can make Dharma work not a losing "business". Work hard, be creative, generate funds to sustain the works, which can include your own wages. This does not mean however, you are greedy and be unreasonable!
Just my thoughts...plus, when one chooses Dharma as a career it should never be about the money... It is about benefitting others..
EXACTLY! Who is to say Dharma work cannot be an enterprising money making secular business that benefits others... In this day and age anything is possible through hard work and perseverance.
Especially when we take the actual pursuance of money as the object of happiness, and with the grace of our Great Protector Dorje Shugden, our business will flourish in order for us to use the money to benefit others. He is after all our Dharma protector and will undoubtedly remove all obstacles if our motivation is right... :)
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I've come across this topic with a friend who was also confused, whether to give up his high pay job in "samsara" or to work for Dharma full time. He is very talented, he manages people well and very organized, a social butterfly who has lots of network. People think such a "useful" resource is gone to waste if he really gives up his current job and pursue his spiritual path.
After a few months of volunteering in that particular organization which he think he can actually find his true self, although with pay cut, he still go for it. Friends and families were so shocked of his dramatic choice but he didn't care. He thinks that working for Dharma and serve his guru is what he wants to pursue ultimately and only Dharma can lead him to betterment in life, not only current life but also future life. Now, i find him a happier boy, less attachment (he used to be serious party animal) and complaints, very compassionate to the people around him now.
So, Klein, just go all the way for Dharma, u wouldn't regret. It's the best gift ever u can give to yourself and indirectly it also benefit your family and people around you. JUST DO IT!
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Yes, I agree with WoselTenzin regarding: Whether we will be OK when we are old is not dependent on how much money we earn or have now. Even if we make or have a lot of money now, all can be lost any time.
However, let's face the truth, we need money to sustain everyday life if the organization didn't take care your accommodation and food. I think you need to plan well when you are working for Dharma full time. What I mean here is not to be sneaky, have money mind, but to understand that money is not the only we pursue in our life, and it's spiritual growth that's beneficial to our future lifes.
For example of a well plan is to have little saving for safety, if there's anything happen to ourself or others, we still have something to help us instead of staying helpless and waiting for others to give us support.
Sorry I might not be right but just try to be practical so the Dharma journey can be more smooth and secure.
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Personally, the fulfillment from Dharma work cannot compare with anything the material world has to offer. If you actually miss this chance, you will regret it when you dont get it anymore. Friends and money can never replace the happiness and satisfaction that you get from serving your teacher and sangha. Your Dharma colleagues give you more warmth and support and love than any of your samsaric colleagues ever can give. After a while you will find no meaning in your life, especially if you have experienced the care and kindess of a dharma community....
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I rejoiced for people whom doing dharma work !
Some said to do dharma work NEED merit is true, if you don't have enough merit won't connect with dharma or your guru again. Need merit not to runaway when heard about dharma.
Some said to do dharma work is to GAIN merit which you need is true, if bad karma will rebirth in 3 lower realms then sure need to gain as much to less suffering by purification.
The fact is no matter is you need merit or to gain merit during dharma work, is the best choice ever especially at the same time you got the pay cheque to purify bad karma. How wonderful is this ! Get paid from sangha fund to practise dharma at the end you benefit from this and your work is to benefit others.
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First, ask yourself why you want to do Dharma work full-time? If the answer is to benefit others, it is the correct answer because the motivation is pure. You have, perhaps, developed aspiring bodhicitta. At least the altruistic intention must be there. Outside Dharma, whatever good actions we perform do not create much merits because we don't have bodhicitta. In Dharma, the conditions are there for our good karma to ripen and we collect merits. What is money and savings for old-age compared to the merits accumulated doing Dharma work? When you go full-time, you must not have negative thoughts and doubts about old-age. The Buddhas and holy beings have collected so much merits for future generations of sangha. Those who give up their self-cherishing for others will be taken care of. The Buddha promised and the Buddha does not lie.
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I truly admire people who are prepared to give up high level good paying job to go into dharma full time. I have friends who do that. Some of them are bit apprehensive at first not knowing what would happen when they take that pay cut and how they will cope. Miraculously they all survive; somehow they have whatever is needed at the right time. Almost all will say that they are happier doing dharma service than in their last high paying job. How is that so?
I believe when one is willing to give up attachments and pursue a life of dharma service in benefitting others, the merits accumulated would surely see them through. Also I believe in time of need, Lord Buddha and Protector would not abandon anyone.
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Doing Dharma work full time with right attitude, we are creating a best insurance in the world for our old age and future life. We should not worry about what is going to happen with us in the future any more instead we should looking forwards for things that we can do for other. When we do more things for other, we will think lessen about ourself and gradually ourself become not matter any more. How we can develop this, everything still the same just change the focus, instead focus on me me me, we should focus out about other then we will feel the real happiness which will cultivate us to do more.
What is the best insurance in the world we have? If we do Dharma work with right attitudes, speech and actions, so everyday we are collecting the merit so that we will not fall into the bad situation, terrible illness, horrible process of aging and the frightening moment of death. Even if it does happen, with the trained mind we will be able to accept and know to deal with it. If we can do it, even though the suffer is there but we don't feel that much suffer any more.
Why we never hear the case of monk or nun tell us that they are not sure and worry about their future? Come on.. obviously i think because of their mind already set to be detach and renounce since the day they ordained. May be we should set our mind to be renounce and detach etc and at a same time set the goal that we want to achieve when we make decision to do Dharma work full time.
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As serious Buddhist practitioners, I do feel and think that doing dharma work fulltime is the best thing we can do to repay our Guru's kindness and the protector's kindness. The main reason why we do pray to our protector, or any Dharma protector at all is not for temporal gains but actually for conducive conditions for our Dharma practice. What could be more beneficial to us than serving the Lama and the Dharma directly? Else, why would we adhere to our teachers and pray to the protector?
By working fulltime in Dharma, and assuming that we have a good and high paying job before we decide to do Dharma work fulltime, we are actually practicing renunciation in action as we leave our daily work jobs for something higher, something with a bigger goal, that is to attain liberation or to benefit others, depending on what the original motivation was, and to help support a cause that would lead more people into happy states and to lead people to liberation from their sufferings, both temporal and ultimate. That would be my motivation to work in Dharma fulltime.
With that said, sometimes i do lose track of my motivations. Although my motivation when I do not forget is to serve others and to benefit them in a better, more permanent and lasting way as compared to the other available methods in samsara, i often ignore the pleas and requests for help from my own Dharma colleagues and if they cannot finish their work, their own timelines suffer so if I refuse to help them because i am too afraid that it will also affect my personal work, is that not selfishness at play? Which is why I always try to help my Dharma colleagues whenever they need help no matter how busy I am because it will contradict directly the Dharma if i focus on myself and ignore their requests and thats kinda like the conclusion i come through.
In the end, I guess, motivation and mentality is very important. We can be in Dharma but the Dharma will not be in us if we are hard and resistant and bitter and unwilling to let go of old ideas of how office life is supposed to be and apply those principles in Dharma. It wont work because Dharma and samsara do not mix. If we do Dharma work but we backstab others and think of only how to gain fame and recognition, then we are not doing Dharma at all. We are just doing normal work. This is a thing to consider and contemplate on
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It is interesting that I come across this posting as only last evening I was given a teaching by my Guru. In which it was mentioned that there are many levels of materialism.
Some of us are still at the level of gaining wealth in the materialistic world and some of us have passed that need and attachment and reaching for the next level of what is next.
It is at the level of what is next that makes spirituality more powerful. It is at this level that self and welfare of self is laid aside for the welfare of others.
So doing Dharma full time and not having a retirement benefit is alright because Dharma takes you beyond the current precious human life.
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Mahayana Buddhism generally uses the word dharma to refer to both the teachings of the Buddha and the realization of enlightenment. To speak of someone’s understanding of dharma is not to comment on how well that person can recite Buddhist doctrines but on his state of realization. If one particular person has committed dharma work full time he would have due consideration, deep thought before making the decision and proceed with such move and also not to act in the heat of the moment. Doing dharma with a positive mind , good motivation , harmoniously and selflessly will eventually bear good fruit at the end of the day. 8)